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 THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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 Drug Legalization? 
#3955322 - 03/22/05 08:22 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just kinda of wondering who would do it if you could. Now what drugs would you legalize from this list? Please take the time if you read this to fill out the survey.
Edited by THEBats (03/22/05 08:24 PM)
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 TYL3R
Registered: 11/19/04
Posts: 17,118
Loc: Chico 
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955363 - 03/22/05 08:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes to all.
People should be able to choose what they decide to put or not put into their bodies. 
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faslimy
Dead Man
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955364 - 03/22/05 08:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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nothing should be 'illegal'
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: faslimy]
#3955377 - 03/22/05 08:34 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know know I mean I've seen people ruin their life with coke so addicted that they would kill for it. Now tell me that shouldn't be illegal. Also seeing although he didn't kill for coke other people do all the time.
Edited by THEBats (03/22/05 08:36 PM)
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lukeboots
fresh futuristic
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955390 - 03/22/05 08:37 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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If it (coke) was legal, you could only hope that the government and other organizations would promote knowledge of substances (much like this site is trying to do), and that people would be educated enough not to ruin their lives. If they did, we'd most definitely have to have programs & rehabs for them to get put into (NOT JAIL!).
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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
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TYL3R
Registered: 11/19/04
Posts: 17,118
Loc: Chico
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: TYL3R]
#3955394 - 03/22/05 08:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
x_TYLER_x said:
Yes to all.
People should be able to choose what they decide to put or not put into their bodies.
+1
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955396 - 03/22/05 08:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe all drugs should be legalized and regulated. No one has the right to tell you what you can and cannot do with your body & mind, whether it's bad for you or not. Pot should be treated like alcohol, psychedelics like driving and flying (you take a course to get your certification...learn about the history, chemistry, effects *positive & negative*, uses, ect) and then you're good to go. Hard drugs like heroin should be pure, and provided in special clinics, administered by doctors and RNs.....there should also be info on addiction and treatment in these clincs. Furthermore, they should have corporate sponsers so the drugs are free (no need to rob to get high). Courses should also be required to be certified to use these drugs. Also, legalization is the first step, we must also make sure that drug users are not discrimated against. I believe all of this will happen someday. (Nothing lasts, and that includes the Western Mainstream Society......the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, ect all fell in the end, so will our society/civilization.)
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Edited by Dark_Star (03/22/05 08:40 PM)
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Skunk420
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955400 - 03/22/05 08:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Salvia is already legal, but watch, it will be scheduled like a lot of other substances...just make them all legal...people are gonna do whatever they want anyway...
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: lukeboots]
#3955403 - 03/22/05 08:40 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea I don't think we should put drug people into jail. Cause it don't work. My bro went into prison addicted to heroin and when he came back out he went right back to it. He is currently sentenced to 15 years for breaking into someones home for heroin money. And yes salvia is legal but I'm asking should it stay legal. But I'm good as far as salvia goes, ordered a whole kg from Canada. 
Edited by THEBats (03/22/05 08:41 PM)
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3955406 - 03/22/05 08:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe all drugs should be legalized and regulated.
I agree with you in the sale of drugs however is a person decides to grow or produce a drug for personal use I don't the government has any right to interfere.
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955412 - 03/22/05 08:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Plus drugs are readily available in prison, and there's nothing else to do in there....... Any law governing "morality" or values is bullshit and wrong. Plus, the laws are what cause most of the problems, not the drugs. Sure heroin and coke can make you strung out....but that's it, all the other problems (crime, ODs, ect) are a bi-product of the way drugs and drug users are viewed and treated.
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Althea
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955413 - 03/22/05 08:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think all drugs should be legal. I agree that people should be able to choose what goes into their body.
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Althea]
#3955417 - 03/22/05 08:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hell I don't know why I mean we spend millions of dollars trying to fight even a relativly harmless substance pot and people will still always smoke it. What's the point in trying to fight it? Holy shit someone said pot should be illegal. Who the hell? What are you doing on this forum then?
Edited by THEBats (03/22/05 08:46 PM)
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: lukeboots]
#3955595 - 03/22/05 09:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jonnywax said:
If it (coke) was legal, you could only hope that the government and other organizations would promote knowledge of substances
I said yes to all besies Heroin Coke and Meth. The govt already has a shit load of drug education---atleast at my school, we had a gesut speaker every week as well as whole chaptures in values--Everything! It doesnt stop from thousands of people dying from alcohol which is legal. If Heroin Coke and MEth were sold over the counter, it would be fukin chaos. Ecstasy should only be avaialbe in presctiption. Being completely legal and just decriminalizing something are 2 toitally different things.
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Althea
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Why would it be chaos if heroin meth and coke were available to all?
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lukeboots
fresh futuristic
Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 19,728
Loc: Grand Ole Operating Syste...
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Yeah, I agree with you to an extent. People are in general idiots and I don't think everyone should be allowed the same personal freedoms just by birthright or something.. I agree with Dark_Star's idea to have classes and permits (or whatever you want to call them) for each drug you'd like to obtain. They shouldn't be easy to get, either.
I don't know, this isn't a subject I'm good at handling. Ideally I'd like to think all drugs could be legal without too much trouble, but as I stated earlier, I know for a fact that some people just cannot handle drugs and become chemical addicts, while others can handle them and do fine.
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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
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Yeah, but people still have the right to do heroin, coke and meth if they want too.....but they def, should not be available to everyone, over the counter. Refer to one of my earlier posts in this thread for what I think would be a great way of dealing with hard drugs.
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Althea
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3955645 - 03/22/05 09:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with what you said Dark Star
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,405
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3955661 - 03/22/05 09:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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If someone wants to do a drug, they're going to do it if it's legal or not.
Having a drug illegal isn't preventing people from doing it.
And if fact if it were legal, they could probably have it really really cheap, if not free to the addicts, which could help them get their life back on track.
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
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People are in general idiots and I don't think everyone should be allowed the same personal freedoms just by birthright or something.
And who are you to decide where my freedom ends? If and only if I infringe on your rights does anyone have the right to stop me.
It doesnt stop from thousands of people dying from alcohol which is legal. If Heroin Coke and MEth were sold over the counter, it would be fukin chaos.
Once again who cares. No one has the right to determine what I do with my body. If I commit a crime by infringing on your rights only then should the law have the right to stop me.
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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lukeboots
fresh futuristic
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3955682 - 03/22/05 09:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm no one to decide what you put into your body. What I was saying was that if you want to put something into your body, in my ideal world, you'd have to prove that you're smart and able enough to handle what you're getting into.
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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: lukeboots]
#3955704 - 03/22/05 09:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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in my ideal world, you'd have to prove that you're smart and able enough to handle what you're getting into.
What gives someone else the right to judge my abilities? Who determines who is smart and able enough? How can I protest the results?
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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lukeboots
fresh futuristic
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Posts: 19,728
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3955739 - 03/22/05 09:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're asking questions that you already know you have answers in your head for.
What gives someone else the right to judge my abilities?
The only thing I can say here is "nothing," because obviously, there isn't some big reason why I should have the power to judge or test you. But, you have to understand that with Dark_Star's testing idea, it's merely trying to make a safer environment with more freedom for everyone (much like the government is trying now, but I feel they're going about it wrong).
Who determines who is smart and able enough?
If we're talking about this happening in our current western society, I guess that would be your elected officials.
How can I protest the results?
I don't know, the tests in question haven't even been invented or written yet.
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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
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SuperD
Lophophiend
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 5,748
Loc: My stash box
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: lukeboots]
#3955784 - 03/22/05 10:04 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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the idea of legalization and regulation does sound nice. however, although many people would resort to going through these mandatory tests to see if they were educated and certified enough to take a substance, what happens to those that choose not to take these tests of certification but still wish to do the drugs? would be they jailed for purchasing or distributing these substances outside of the government's control?
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Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin.
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: lukeboots]
#3955786 - 03/22/05 10:05 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's merely trying to make a safer environment with more freedom for everyone
And exactly how does limiting what I do with my body accomplish that? As soon as I infringe on another person's rights the government has the authority to intervene. But up until that moment how do you rationalize restricting my rights?
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: SuperD]
#3955815 - 03/22/05 10:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, but they will be a lot harder for them to get.....plus after awhile knowledge about safe use, as well as the effects will be well known, and drugs/drug users will no longer have the "bad" and "evil' image they have now, which will hopefully prevent most freak-outs and other problems.
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lukeboots
fresh futuristic
Registered: 02/04/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3955825 - 03/22/05 10:13 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, good point. The government shouldn't have the right to intervene unless you violate someone else's rights.
In any case, I don't have the energy or time to argue a case that has been fought hundreds of thousands of times, without answer. I'm going to read and forget about this thread, because it's starting to aggravate me. 
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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: lukeboots]
#3955847 - 03/22/05 10:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hope I didn't come off as a prick. I'm just tired of supposedly open minded people saying this drug is ok but that drug is wrong. It's also annoying to see people think that a drug is evil or that it will force a person into evil actions.
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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lukeboots
fresh futuristic
Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 19,728
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3955883 - 03/22/05 10:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, you didn't come off as a prick. I understand where you're coming from. I've had some very bad experiences with cocaine users, which may explain why I'm biased toward that drug being illegal. I need to get over that ego trip, but I'm still having trouble with it. I've just never met a good cokehead.
but, anyway, I do not have the answers on how to change the world's stance on drugs. I just do mine, stay out of trouble, and don't violate other people's rights.
PS - NOW I'm going to go read!
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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey
Edited by lukeboots (03/22/05 10:23 PM)
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3955930 - 03/22/05 10:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cb9fl said:
People are in general idiots and I don't think everyone should be allowed the same personal freedoms just by birthright or something.
And who are you to decide where my freedom ends? If and only if I infringe on your rights does anyone have the right to stop me.
It doesnt stop from thousands of people dying from alcohol which is legal. If Heroin Coke and MEth were sold over the counter, it would be fukin chaos.
Once again who cares. No one has the right to determine what I do with my body. If I commit a crime by infringing on your rights only then should the law have the right to stop me.
Once again, Decriminalizing a substance and making it totally legal sold over the counter are 2 different things. If you got stopped with a few ampules of heroin or baggies of Coke, then no, you shouldnt be convicted but.....if your trunk as full of Coke or Meth, thats a differnt story. How many smack addicts or hardcore life junkies have never commited a crime? Im looking at this from a more broad univesal perspective and I only see negative consequences on society as a whole (not only the ones doing the drug) by having substances like Meth Coke and Heron sold over the counter. I know some people, such as you for example, may be able to mainstream junk everynight without affecting society but where do we draw the line? Sooner or later there will be smack dealers making stopby's at highschools saying, "hey kid wanna fly"...I know I might be sterotyping people who misuse these drugs with the ones who are responsible but from that perspective, why not just sell fighter jets and rocketlaunchers over the counter as well? Im sure there are some who will keep such things as only novelty purposes or use safely and not harm others with them right?
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phi1618
old hand
Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955938 - 03/22/05 10:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I voted yes to all.
One important point is that even if everybody agreed today that the criminalization of drugs isn't working, it would take time to impliment regulatory and harm reduction institutions. I don't think we should immediately move to an environment where any unregulated entrepaneur can sell and market anything he wants, though that could be an acceptable state of affairs if the public was well informed and well funded rehab, education, and counsiling services were easily available.
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955943 - 03/22/05 10:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
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I know some people, such as you for example, may be able to mainstream junk every night without affecting society but where do we draw the line?
When they infringe on the rights of others. Why is that so hard to understand? I am by no means advocating the application of a different criminal standard for drug users. If a drug user or seller or manufacturer infringes on the rights of others then he should be charged.
Alcohol is illegal now but do you see people forcing it on school children? In the very few cases where that may have happened then and only then did the authorities have a right to arrest the person involved.
.if your trunk as full of Coke or Meth, thats a differnt story.
Why? That person is providing a service and if there weren't criminal penalties attached to it the person would be much less likely to otherwise break the law.
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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lilbilski4life
fear andloathing inbozeman
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 199
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3955997 - 03/22/05 10:37 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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DARK STAR FOR PERISDENT!!!
wat he said, u got my vote... nice plan
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mxdrk
searching forsomething
Registered: 07/19/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Silversoul]
#3955999 - 03/22/05 10:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Honestly I am underage as far as drinking is concerned and I can say its much easier for me to get other substances than alcohol. I think that instead of all the money the government spends try to fight the drug war, they can use that money to have rehabs and drug awareness programs that actually work and tell you truths and do not try and scare you. My old dare officer or whatever tried to scare you away from drugs. I think if we legalized everything and had better rehabs, and programs that taught you the positives and negatives of drugs, it might work.
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: lukeboots]
#3956058 - 03/22/05 10:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jonnywax said:
I've just never met a good cokehead.
I was a cokehead. 
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3956085 - 03/22/05 10:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cb9fl said:
I know some people, such as you for example, may be able to mainstream junk every night without affecting society but where do we draw the line?
When they infringe on the rights of others. Why is that so hard to understand? I am by no means advocating the application of a different criminal standard for drug users. If a drug user or seller or manufacturer infringes on the rights of others then he should be charged.
Alcohol is illegal now but do you see people forcing it on school children? In the very few cases where that may have happened then and only then did the authorities have a right to arrest the person involved.
.if your trunk as full of Coke or Meth, thats a differnt story.
Why? That person is providing a service and if there weren't criminal penalties attached to it the person would be much less likely to otherwise break the law.
And how would the auotherities be able to filter out the people who are infringing on others rights and the ones who are indeed not? 75% of people who fuck with with Ice, Heroin or Coke almos become instant retrn customers, addicts....I totally understand your viewpoint and its not an irrational one but Im relating this hypotheical legalization from a realistic standpoint on present day society. Im not sayin this is how it should be, Im saying this is how it is. People are idiots, they are irresposnible and alot of people out there are Crooked. History repeats itself, there were 100's of thousands in the 1800's sitting in there own shit and piss rotting away spending all there money druing the Chinese Opium wars.
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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And how would the auotherities be able to filter out the people who are infringing on others rights and the ones who are indeed not? 75% of people who fuck with with Ice, Heroin or Coke almos become instant retrn customers, addicts...
Being an addict or return customer doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. They could easily distinguish as they do now between someone who doesn't steal, murder, rape .. and someone who does steal, murder, rape ..
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3956237 - 03/22/05 11:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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No it doenst, but chances are these people will eventually evolve into that type of character. Most who become an Ice addict, Coke head or junkie end up devloping into a person who will not only destroy themselves (which in fine I guess) but will negatively intervene with the lives of others. I know this is once again sterotyping but I am viewing this from a univeral broad spectrum on society. Addicts or victims of these substances are not the ones I am saying should be condemned... Statistics show that your average low life criminal has a problem with drugs. Holy shit...do you have to wait for a few to get raped, maybe an innocent bystander getting killed or sombody getting there shit jacked before the gov't steps in and says, "ok lets try and catch this guy" It doesnt need to happen and Im not going to support a concept of legalizing drugs that have shown to have such a negative impact on society.
Edited by PsillyNilly (03/22/05 11:10 PM)
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
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As long as you realize that you are imposing your sense of right and wrong, your sense of morality on others then I'm going to step out of this conversation.
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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Turd
Dr. Rock
Registered: 01/21/03
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3956522 - 03/22/05 11:36 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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everything should be legal, though there should DEFINATELY be restrictions on where people are allowed to use the substances (driving, public places, etc)
I mean, would you REALLY want to have to deal with idiots tripping out on mescaline while you were trying to play some chess at the park, or eat lunch at a cafe? I think that if the stuff was legal, you'd have a lot more idiots doing it without knowing what they were getting into, and thus causing trouble
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Turd]
#3956581 - 03/22/05 11:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not if they had to learn about it before they could use it.....and plenty of idiots use now.
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: cb9fl]
#3956701 - 03/22/05 11:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cb9fl said:
As long as you realize that you are imposing your sense of right and wrong, your sense of morality on others then I'm going to step out of this conversation.
That I am not. Im not saying somebody is an unethical individual because they do heroin or Meth. Im not saying these drugs are any more wrong then you are saying they are right. I am not drawing character evaluations from somebody who involves themselves in these substances. I think you are combining flat down legalization with decriminalizing. We are talking about the socially moralizing the use of these drugs, largescale manufacturing to support a big business industry that will flourish at the expense of another. Media influences Just like Joe the camel there will be Jerry the Junkie up on billboards and Santa clause shootin up heroin on commercials during Christmas time. Mult-Billion dollar entrepreneurs will Americanize this proposed industry while there unfortunate customers will pay the price---those customers own injurious is something I don?t have a right to take a stance on . But Im not gonna wait for my house to be ransacked or my sister raped or a loved one be murdered so a generation of junkies can support there addiction. This is unfortunately they way things Are---its not the way they should be. It all comes down to the relative destructive potential on our current Culture. IM all for flat down legalizing psychedelics, Exstasy and Marijuana for the potential of these substances indirectly harming myself is much lower. I draw the line at Heroin and Meth?.Would you want people running around with Nuclear warheads? Who?s to say what?s right and wrong until they actually set off the goddam thing in a metropolis?---then its too late. This is of course an exaggerated anology from that of Heroin but the concept is similar through my eyes.
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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But if the legal/tolerance surrounding drugs like heroin and meth were changed positively, than you WON'T have worry about them. The only reason addicts commit crimes because of their habits is because these habits are illegal and not tolerated. Change this, and 95% of the crime and violence around such drugs will go away...it'll take time, but it WILL go away.
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3956833 - 03/23/05 12:05 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said:
The only reason addicts commit crimes because of their habits is because these habits are illegal and not tolerated.
Hardcore junkies who have draiend themselves of all there funds needing to support the craving for there addiction break into homes to support that addiction. People commit crimes to support that habit...it doesnt matter whether or not the actual habit is an illict one. Can you please reword this...Im nolt sure I understand. Thievery, murder Rape and other criminal activity are all bi-products of chemical dependecy.
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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No, they are bi-products of laws against chemicals......if they legalized & regulated them, these problems would go away. First off, the attitude about them and their users must change. If an addict has a job, they can support their habit (and don't say that addicts can't hold down jobs, I know hardcore junkies that work to support their habits....just because you're hooked doesn't mean you can't work.) If the anti-drug shit went away, and was replaced with tolerance more addicts could get jobs....in fact, tons of drug users, addicts or not, stoners and junkies could get jobs that are now unavailable to us. Second off, if the anti-drug shit went away and was replaced with compassion people would be more willing to seek help, and less willing to lash out. I've been addicted, I've never stolen to support a habit, and I sure as hell never raped or hurt anyone in any way, for any reason. However I did feel alone and hated, I knew what most people think about addicts, I had no hope, felt no love, ect, ect. This made the problem much worse. Next, if we can get corporate sponsers as well as donations for clincs where users are given these drugs by knowledgable medical personnal (doctors, nurses, ect.), then they wouldn't have to pay, therefore no need to rob. A happy balance would be best; those that can pay, pay and those that can't are hooked up for free. Now, of course some whiney bitch will say "why should people pay for these people to get high?". Well, because taking care of those in need is the right thing to do.....karma my friends, it's quite real. If you're in a bad place, you'd probably want to be taken care of, not left all alone out in the cold. If we got rid of the greedy and selfish mindset that is so prevalent these days and actually fucking took care of each other than this world would be a better place. As far as rapes and robbery go.....arrest the people for that, not the drugs. Drug use is a personal decision that directly harms the user only.....rape and robbery harms others. As far as it hurting the loved ones....yeah, of course it does, and that sucks, but we can't violate people's free will. There is no point in being alive if you can't live the life you choose.
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3957051 - 03/23/05 12:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Somebody stealing shit to pawn for drugs and other criminal acticity are "bi-products of laws against chemicals"???? Alcoholics commit crimes to a lesser extent and there is regulation on the sale of alcohol. I know addicts can have jobs...Im not sure being tweaked out on Meth and nodded up really goes hand in hand with the working environment but there is no doubt that these people can indeed keep a job....but if one of my employees was a junkie and he showed signs at work, then I would probably fire him for somebody who can do the job more effecietly....not becuase he's a junkie, but because for the Most part, they just arent as productive. I know many people succesfully use these drugs but once again, univerally speaking, that success rate is slim to none when the smoke clears and when they look behind them, they've left a trail of destruction that has directly affected other peoples lives. Maybe Im a little biased. My uncle was killed by a heroin addict so he can jack his VCR and my cousin was beat up and almost raped by a junkie (some people came in and saved her but was hospotalized for 2 weeks)
Ive been hurt even more by 2 other friends dying of a heroin overdose but I am not factoring in these 2 deaths for they fall under "free will"...but the other incedences dont. Legalizing Meth, heroin and Coke will only escalate the problem these drugs are causing today. Maybe society might be a tad bit more compassionate...but at the expense of millions of addicts....thats the way I see it of course neither of us can take a final stance on an epistemoligical impoderable. If another country ever legalized these drugs, then maybe we can start drawing out comparisons.
Edited by PsillyNilly (03/23/05 12:38 AM)
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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Once again, all of that is due to the laws against the drugs.....this isn't rocket science, and you've always seemed intelligent, so I don't see how this is hard for you to understand.....possibly because you're so emotionally involved (with the loss of your uncle and attack of your cousin). Seriously dude, the problems won't increase if they're legalized and regulated, they will decrease. You want an example? Switzerland. Also, if this plan was implemented it would do wonders in the fight against AIDS, that's right...AIDS the epidemic that could very well WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE. One more thing, you're family was devastated by that attack, and I feel for your loss, I truely do...but what about all of the other people, users, users families, ect that are devastated and have their lives destroyed every day because of these laws? And even though you don't see it, these laws are also responsible for the loss of your Uncle, and your cousins attack.
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3957250 - 03/23/05 01:19 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well if thats the case then No...I do not understand at all. Im not trying to obtain leverage to state my case by the incedences with my uncle and cousin....but Im gonna play student and ask how does legality apply to the following situation?
1. Somebody indulges in a clinical addicting substance
2. they become addicted
3. they brun there recourses (time and money) while constantly being under the unfluence
4. Unable to deliver funds to support there addiction, they result to immoral an criminal activity
5. Robbery being a quick easy way to obtain finances, stealing becomes a routine practice where murder is not out of the question
Is this not a realistic example. After the perpentrator was arrested, this is pretty much a nutcracker story of the person who killed my uncle and probably applies to other alike....but I still dont understand how the cravings and personalities of these people would change if the drugs were legal? Many bums suffer from alcoholism which is what got them on the steets?some do commit theievery so they can buy a few 1 dollar Nattie ices just to hold them over for the day. The way I see it, the situation with crackheads and Alcoholic street walkers would just increase if heroin, crack and Meth were completely legal.
Maybe I am ignorant though---never knew meth and heroin was sold over the counter in Switzerland. Less than 5% of the people who areinfected with AIDS is due to needles...and there are clinics that supply clean syringes when you return a dirty ones if thats what your trying to say with the whole AIDS thing. Im not sure legalizing heroin wlll put a big dent in the AIDS epidemic while it only applies to a wapping 5% of people who are infected with HIV. I do enulge in opiates by the way and I dont regret it, but I can't relate my self control to the rest of society which has shown to be negatively affected by heroin.
Edited by PsillyNilly (03/23/05 01:45 AM)
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PsillyNilly
Stranger
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I am not saying I speak the truth but below are some CDC statistics I just pulled of the net. #1, #3 and possibly #2 (food addiction--gluttony/obecity) all are the result of addictive behavoirs. Ilicit drug use falls in number 12 but I can only imagine how much higher that number would be if those drugs were socially moralized and just as avaialbe as Tabacco and Alcohol (which are LEGAL). How does my stance not make any sense? How does something being illegal have any affect on the addictive personalities of human beings?
Activity-----------------------------------deaths
Tobacco---------------------------------------------435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity-------------------365,000
Alcohol---------------------------------------------85,000
Microbial Agents------------------------------------75,000
Toxic Agents----------------------------------------55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes-------------------------------26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs-------------32,000
Suicide---------------------------------------------30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms-----------------------29,0001
Homicide-------------------------------------------20,3084
Sexual Behaviors-----------------------------------20,0001
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect----------17,000,
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs--------------7,6006
Marijuana---------------------------------------------0
Edited by PsillyNilly (03/23/05 01:39 AM)
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
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Tobacco is number one and it's legal. And mary jane has no deaths and it's not. This is bullshit. I'm moving to Amsterdam where these people got a brain.
Edited by THEBats (03/23/05 06:02 AM)
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endokrin
Stranger
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Those number are very sobering, but I should point out one thing:
They say 435,000 people die because of tobacco use. Is this directly due to the tobacco itself, or because of prolonged use and smoking of tobacco causes all those health problems?
They say marijuana use caused 0 deaths--OK that's cool, I've read how it takes an impossibly large amount to overdose, and marijuana is in itself not a poison. But if one were to smoke marijuana on a regular basis, say the equivalent of a one or two pack per day cigarette smoker, wouldn't the deaths due to marijuana use increase?
Of course, most people who smoke marijuana don't smoke nearly as much/often as someone addicted to cigarettes, but SMOKING anything is bad for you.
When people make the claim that marijuana kills zero people per year, it might be a little misleading. It certainly has the possibility to kill people, if they smoked on a very regular basis. If people smoked tobacco only as often as they smoked weed, I imagine those tobacco deaths would drop from 435,000.
I completely agree that people should be free to ingest whatever they wish, but if we are going to be making these arguments to our friends, family, neighbors and politicians, let's make our case airtight. Don't leave ANY loopholes or margins of error or any loose ends for someone to unravel. Although it seems nit-picky, those who are keeping our freedoms from us will use anything to make their case.
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"If King Kong sells drugs, we'll put him in jail"
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sever
Where am I?
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 161
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: endokrin]
#3958152 - 03/23/05 09:26 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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~
Edited by sever (07/17/06 05:58 PM)
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: sever]
#3958781 - 03/23/05 12:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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What they should do with pot is make it legal and sell it like the roll your own tobbaco but don't add anything to it then put a pot tax on it and we will make money off of it.
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Az0th
quantum transfiguration
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 53,427
Loc: The Void
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: sever]
#3958814 - 03/23/05 12:54 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sever said:
If these drugs were all suddenly made legal, the US economy would probably collapse.
or explode...
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~Thought Creates Reality~
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TinTree
thread killer(semi pro)
Registered: 02/15/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: endokrin]
#3958860 - 03/23/05 01:03 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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There's never been a proven case of mouth/lung cancer or emphysema from someone who had only smoked marijuana, and never been exposed to other carcinogens (tobacco, asbestos, fiberglass, etc etc).
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"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley
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Az0th
quantum transfiguration
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 53,427
Loc: The Void
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: TinTree]
#3958890 - 03/23/05 01:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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marijuana is the safest therapeutic drug known to man.
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~Thought Creates Reality~
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,405
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Az0th]
#3959019 - 03/23/05 01:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's unsettling the number of people who don't think heroin should be legal (on this drug forum).
Edited by HeavyToilet (03/23/05 01:48 PM)
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3959050 - 03/23/05 01:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is a meeting to debate marijuana legalization tomorrow night at the Cook Campus Center, at Cook Campus of Rutgers University. I may go. I don't smoke pot but I definitely support its legalization.
If anyone is in the area and interested in checking it out, definitely do.
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deadsilence020
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 Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3959064 - 03/23/05 01:48 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
THEBats said:
Tobacco is number one and it's legal. And mary jane has no deaths and it's not. This is bullshit. I'm moving to Amsterdam where these people got a brain.
I hear ya there... I would move to Amsterdam as well... unfortuantly, I plan to start a head shop in Manhatten in the near future, beings Mary Jane is illegal and a higher amount of people would seek the items I would hold in my shop more strongly... so makes for good profits... about the statistics from the one post... you make a good point...one question.. which of those numbers/activities is Shrooms?
PS: Im new to the forums, and having a great time, nice to meet ya all... 
Edited by deadsilence020 (03/23/05 01:55 PM)
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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 You're not hearing me...if meth and heroin were legal and regulated (as in hard to get for people not already hooked...NOT OTC), and they were available in clincs that would provide them FREE OF CHARGE for those who couldn't afford their fix, then there would be NO NEED to steal for drug money. Plus, you can't punish everyone for the wrongs of a few....and NO ONE has the right to tell you what you can and cannot put into your body. If the people rob or rape, arrest and punish them for that, but until people interefere with anothers rights and well-being like that, what they do is no one else's business or problem.
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Edited by Dark_Star (03/23/05 05:23 PM)
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zerozero
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/04
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3960463 - 03/23/05 05:44 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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"and they were available in clinics that would provide them FREE OF CHARGE for those who couldn't afford their fix, then there would be NO NEED to steal for drug money"
this means people would have to pay even more taxes to pay for heron and rock......
this wouldn't stop all the violence and problems associated with drugs, some people are just violent and criminal minded and are not going to be good citizens cause their rock is free..
it's so complicated that it will probably never be dealt with by government, except to just say. it bad. you criminal.
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: zerozero]
#3960539 - 03/23/05 06:00 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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It would stop all the violence that comes from the drug use itself, all the other violence comes from people who would do the same shit, drugs or no drugs. Trust me on this, I know a lot of people, and unfortunately many of my old former friends are crackheads and criminals (they steal shit, they are violent), however, I've known these people for most of my life, and they were shady as well as aggressive people when they were little kids....waaayy before they did any drugs. Some people are going to criminals no matter what, others are forced to be criminals....the latter can be prevented, and the plan I mentioned would work wonders. It's worth a try at least, the war on drugs sure as hell isn't working. Also, having free clinics wouldn't cost the taxpayers more.......first off we spend billions of dollars a year on the war on drugs, if drugs were legal, that would be money saved, some of which can go to clinics, and the rest scattered to other places where it's needed. (clearing up the deficit and saving social security for instance.). Second of all, you obviously didn't read my plan.....we could get some corporate sponsors, as well as donations from all who are willing. PLUS, those who could pay to use these clinics should do so. One more thing, I disagree that things won't change......give it time, the war on drugs is a lost cause, it's only a matter of time beofre enough people realize this to demand a stop to it and be listened to.
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3968673 - 03/25/05 02:33 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes but drugs like meth and coke mess up your view of the world around you way more than the most. Plus just in my opinion I'm against all drugs that are addictive. Even cigarettes which is really messed up that the companies add the nicotine their-selves so people will keep smoking their cigs.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3968698 - 03/25/05 02:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, they should be as legal as alcohol for the most part.
All psychoactive drugs should be regulated like alcohol, if alcohol and tobacco can be used by the citizens they should also have the right to safely use any other drugs if they are of the correct age. The government should not be able to send people to jail for crimes with no victims, like using drugs or two adults engaging in prostitution. Same-sex marriage applies, except they don't send them to jail, they just try to ignore them and use prejudice to keep homosexuals down.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,268
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: Ravus]
#3968719 - 03/25/05 02:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes. I totally agree with that. I mean it's really stupid. i was watching this documentary called Grass and back in the 70's this Vietnam vet came home and was caught with a little less than an oz of pot and was sentenced to 50 yrs. Ain't that some bull!
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 12,532
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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Re: Drug Legalization? [Re: THEBats]
#3969899 - 03/25/05 08:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah..."Thanks for serving for serving our country, 50 years ya damn pot fiend!" What a wonderful country we live in......   As too your earlier post, being for some drugs and against others is hypocritical....just because you won't do them doesn't give you any right whatsoever to determine whether or not someone else does. This is the same kind of shit that lead to pot and psychedelics being illegal, and the same type of shit leading to attempts to ban gay marriage...it's fucking wrong. What people do to themselves is their business, no one elses....if they start fucking with you then what they are doing to you is your business....and you have every right to deal with it yourself, however what drugs they use is still none of your business. Treat others as you would have them treat you....that's something we should all follow. The lack of compassion surrounding hard drugs and people that use them is sickening.
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