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Invisibleshriek
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: DestruKtiKon]
    #2418139 - 03/11/04 06:24 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

if you are talkin to me about forcing belives i havent at all tried that, as i stated in my first post im gettin reactions to red meat and milk, when i first got baby food containin milk i was sent to hospital and almost died. and i also stated i dont care what others eat. i have a daughter and she eats meat and not for a second have i tried to force anything on her.

but i think this forcing thing goes both ways in this debate. ive experienced on resturant when i have pointet out the importance that i cant have milk, to take that example, in my food ive gotten in response no problem. but there has still been milk in the food. how is that for violating others rights not to eat milk products.

in this thread ive been debatin completly diffrent thing than the subject and not once have i said its bad to eat meat. the food chain thing ive been talkin about has been more about that humans has removed themself from nature nothing else.

iron can you get from many sources same with amino acids and proteins, its not completly true that meat is a alpha omega for that its just easier to get these things from meat than nuts and beans because you have to be more aware about what is the right sources, something many that wants to turn vegans fails and becoms sick because they think they can survive on salad alone. this is more the facts i like to debate instead of is it right\wrong to eat meat. i say it for the last time, i dont care what people eat.

as for the cows, a few houndreds years so far


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OfflineDestruKtiKon
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2418140 - 03/11/04 06:27 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I wasn't talkn to anyone in particular, I was just ranting in general. But now, how have we removed ourselves from nature? This is impossible, we are part of it no matter what. Slightly off topic, yes.


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: DestruKtiKon]
    #2418143 - 03/11/04 06:30 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

yes yes but understand me right, we dont hunt our food, we shop it at grocery stores or a resturant, dont take anything so very litterly. the point is, we dont live in nature and interacts wit other animals anymore (to hunt or to be hunted) we do all the hunting and if someone is eaten by the shark its more a shockin news than a fact of life, we live in citys and everything has turned out to be a industry somehow. to put ut simple we dont live like animals


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: MarioNett]
    #2418233 - 03/11/04 07:53 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EllmyshShade, Innvertigo, and Joe666: You guys have to think of something more clever to say than that.




relax little man.


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat *DELETED* [Re: shriek]
    #2418638 - 03/11/04 11:26 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by jonnywax

Reason for deletion: ~~



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Invisibleshriek
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: lukeboots]
    #2418681 - 03/11/04 11:41 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i never said ignorant. and also they do turn fat by eatin that in the long run not that they eat there because they are fat (its a diffrence). people needs to learn to take some times of the day to make food at home first of all therefor i call them lazy. and healthy food isnt expencive at all if you care to make your own food instead. its cheap and fast yeah and the whole concept is based on peoples laziness


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2419106 - 03/11/04 02:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shriek said:
Quote:


The smartest animals in nature are usually either carnivores or omnivores. I can pretty much guarantee you that we didn't develop such a large, complex brain by eating tofu. The reason we're built the way we are is cuz we evolved from apes. And if you think we're not built like predators, well we certainly aren't built like grazers. We weren't always at the top of the food chain, but we sure as hell were never at the bottom. BTW, our close homonid cousins, the Neanderthals, had a diet that consisted of about 80% meat.




ok i should add that i never argued against any of this first of all. im talkin about our place in the food chain and using this as argument, and i do not think we arent build as predators, i know we arent so we werent always on top like you said your self so there we agree. but i find it idiotic when people use the food chain as argument since shoppin a steak in a grocery store that are made from a animal breedet by some farmer has nothing to do with hature really



Of course it does. Nature is all things. We have merely become sentient to the point where we have specialization of labor, so we don't have to all hunt and gather our own food, but rather we have certain people who grow and raise our food for us. And by the way, not being on the top of the food chain doesn't mean you're not a predator.

Quote:

yes i know that proteins from meat has been an important part of our development as humans and i havent once argued that eatin meat is wrong or didnt happend in prehistoruc times. but the way its beein done today has nothing to do with nature or foodchain. its mass industry



As I said, nature is all things. I agree that the way meat is produced today is somewhat fucked up, but that doesn't make it unnatural. Is it any more natural to buy vegetables in a grocery store than it is to buy meat?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2419125 - 03/11/04 02:44 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

but i think this forcing thing goes both ways in this debate. ive experienced on resturant when i have pointet out the importance that i cant have milk, to take that example, in my food ive gotten in response no problem. but there has still been milk in the food. how is that for violating others rights not to eat milk products.



Boo fucking hoo. I've ordered burgers before where I specifically said no lettuce and they give me lettuce. How's that for violating my right not to eat lettuce?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2419134 - 03/11/04 02:47 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

healthy food isnt expencive at all if you care to make your own food instead. its cheap and fast yeah and the whole concept is based on peoples laziness




^^^ very true. It's all about bulk grains from places like Whole Foods. You can get (as most Shroomery people know lol) a ten pound bag of bulk organic brown rice for less than $10. Just use that as a staple & build your meals from that. You'd be well-fed for weeks if you spend a little time a learn a few recipes :thumbup:


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2419136 - 03/11/04 02:48 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shriek said:
breed i ment of course, bad english in the morning

we are the only ones that does that. i dont see anyone hunting in nature to get food just for sport.



That's because we don't rely on hunting for our sustenance anymore, although some people actually do still eat the animals they hunt. In some areas, hunting is actually encouraged to keep certain animal populations in check.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2419144 - 03/11/04 02:50 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shriek said:
food chain is to keep a somewhat balance in nature also, i dont see how we contribute to that balance either. since we have technology and no natural enemies because of that we do pretty much what we want with any animal\plants.



Just because we've fucked with the food chain doesn't mean we're not still a part of it. The problem is overpopulation. If we had a way to control the world's population, we could be perfectly in balance with nature.


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: silversoul7]
    #2419176 - 03/11/04 03:01 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

im talking about both meat and vegetables and our lifestyle in general . .
ok we are in nature, but we are doing stuff our own way unlike any other animal. and while most animals,plants, insects and whatever helps to keep things in balance fox eats rabbit if not there would have been to many rabbits, other thing eats a fox and so on),  i dont see how we help with that balance . animals that arent our natural food sources are dying out because of everything from that we destroy the areas they live in to polution or to just slaughter them down, we are cutting down the rainforrest among other things. is our way good or bad for the rest of the system, does it keep it in balance? and where does that leaves us in the food chain? forget about the topic and meat vs vegetable eatin :smile:

now this is going way off topic now i know. i just like to debate on this subject.

my english isnt the best all the time so i could probably have explained this better but i hope you see where im gettin at


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: silversoul7]
    #2419196 - 03/11/04 03:05 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:

Boo fucking hoo. I've ordered burgers before where I specifically said no lettuce and they give me lettuce. How's that for violating my right not to eat lettuce?




like i said it goes both ways.


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2419207 - 03/11/04 03:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

yea overpopulated exactly, because we have removed ourself from all our natural enemies. maybe that is why we are killing eachother i dont know.

and of course we will always be part of nature as long as we are in this universe.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: shriek]
    #2419238 - 03/11/04 03:17 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

This thread has certainly ballooned into an interesting debate.  :smile:


*sneaks off to go make a ham sandwhich*


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: MOTH]
    #2419809 - 03/11/04 05:33 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, and I've been trying to become a vegetarian myself for a few weeks now. I went a week without eating any meat until I accidently ate some chicken. If I could know how to become a vegetarian and stick to it, I definately would, just because it feels healthier.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: MOTH]
    #2420084 - 03/11/04 07:07 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I definately would, just because it feels healthier.




Key word being "feels".

I have a hard time believing that it's healthier to be a vegan. The key is moderation.


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2420097 - 03/11/04 07:10 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
Quote:

I definately would, just because it feels healthier.




Key word being "feels".

I have a hard time believing that it's healthier to be a vegan. The key is moderation.




Thats very true.


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InvisibleJared
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: MOTH]
    #2420208 - 03/11/04 07:41 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Oh, and I've been trying to become a vegetarian myself for a few weeks now. I went a week without eating any meat until I accidently ate some chicken. If I could know how to become a vegetarian and stick to it, I definately would, just because it feels healthier.




Excluding meat isn't the answer.. I think its the kinds of meats you exclude that matters. I made a point to eat a hamburger today, and I feel like fucking shit. I don't care what anyone says anymore, beef makes me feel physically ill, theres no ifs ands or buts about it. This is what I do my best to live by:

Quote:

Jared said:
Whenever you pick something up, think "would a nomadic human living in a forest eat this?"

Fish, Fowl, Eggs, Veggies(lots of dark green veggies), fruits, whole grains, nuts, and beans. Try to avoid foods based on refined flours, and sugars, and keep dairy intake low. Try to eat things uncooked when possible. Mix this all up and you'll have nothing to worry about.

(I'm not a nutritionalist, and this is just my opinion)




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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Jared]
    #2421171 - 03/12/04 12:10 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

That's actually a pretty good plan Jared.

There's an excellent book called The Origin Diet: How Eating like Our Stone Age Ancestors will Maximize Your Health by Elizabeth Somer, M.A., R.D. that covers exactly what you said in greater detail. Have you read it?

I highly recommend it to anyone here :thumbup:

book link


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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