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 Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,646
Loc: Dominican Republic
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 Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible?  [Re: Lallafa]
#1697597 - 07/08/03 11:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Lallafa writes:
you write this as if you are opposed to the legal counterfeiting
I am.
with a growing population, and never-ending inflation, your "gold standard" libertarian philosophy is a joke.
Inflation can only occur with fiat currency.
you should make it clear, as a hardened defender of the capital order, that this governmental control is the ONLY way to prevent a complete economic collapse
Why would I attempt to make clear something that is patently untrue?
agreed?
Nope.
My purpose in opening a separate thread to address GazzBut's comment rather than derailing the thread in which it appeared was not to criticize the insanity of government control of currency, it was to see if anyone cared to comment on the premise that Capitalism cannot be maintained in the absence of non-Capitalists to be exploited. As a courtesy, however, I addressed somebodyelse's points re currency. As a courtesy to you, I have addressed your points as well.
Do you have an opinion on the premise that Capitalism cannot be maintained in the absence of non-Capitalists to be exploited?
pinky
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,558
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 23 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Phred]
#1699060 - 07/09/03 09:59 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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As I have already said in this thread, In order to maintain the current form of captitalism I believe it is not so much non-capitalists that are needed just a segment of the system which is perennially exploited. At the moment the perennially exploited do not happen to be capitalists.
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Always Smi2le
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 Lallafa
p_g monocle
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2,598
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Phred]
#1699137 - 07/09/03 10:55 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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z
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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson
Edited by Lallafa (02/24/10 11:00 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,807
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Lallafa]
#1699145 - 07/09/03 11:03 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
its an imperfect model, as you have admitted
Still the best going.
Quote:
the world population is increasing at a steady rate, and the % of people in america is increasing even faster. if we didt have welfare, if we didt have government agencys, trqde barriers on imports with the hopes of increasing demand for domestically produced goods, and the government starting wars to create jobs, there would be massive unemployment, crime, famine, and what-have-you
The one does not necessarily lead to the other. If there was no welfare then perhaps welfare cows wouldn't be popping babies out they can't afford and there would be less people.
Quote:
there would probably be people shooting each other for food eventually.
That's a large leap.
Quote:
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Posts: 4,558
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 23 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1699151 - 07/09/03 11:08 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
That's a large leap.
Not as large as....
Quote:
If there was no welfare then perhaps welfare cows wouldn't be popping babies out they can't afford and there would be less people.
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Always Smi2le
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,807
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: GazzBut]
#1699154 - 07/09/03 11:09 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Perhaps you should look up the definition of "probably" and "perhaps".
EDIT: Lets make that you should probably look up those definitions.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
Edited by luvdemshrooms (07/09/03 11:10 AM)
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Rhizoid
carbon unit
Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,627
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 14 days, 11 hours
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Lallafa]
#1699230 - 07/09/03 12:06 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
the world population is increasing at a steady rate, and the % of people in america is increasing even faster.
What statistics are you referring to here? If the % of people in america is increasing faster than the world population, then that can only be caused by immigration, because the US produces fewer babies per woman (2.07) than the world average (2.70).
I'm all for redistribution of income by the way, but not if the system rewards people for breeding like rabbits or staying unemployed. The redistribution should benefit all members of the state equally, no exceptions, no conditions.
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Lallafa
p_g monocle
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2,598
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Rhizoid]
#1699408 - 07/09/03 01:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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a sinful solution or cold logic?
http://www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/2000/6/13_7.html
Quote:
Since 1979, China's strict birth limitation policy has become one of the most notorious ever enacted. All pregnancies must be authorized in order to maintain birth quotas and population goals. Women must obtain "birth coupons" prior to conception.
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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,807
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Lallafa]
#1699420 - 07/09/03 01:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Both.
It's just a shame an IQ test and a steady source of income isn't required before having kids.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,646
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Lallafa]
#1699989 - 07/09/03 04:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Lallafa writes:
libertarians believe that capitalism will solve everything.
Incorrect. I have done extensive reading of Libertarian and Laissez-faire Capitalist writers, and I have yet to see a single one opine that Capitalism will solve everything.
if we didt have welfare, if we didt have government agencys, trqde barriers on imports with the hopes of increasing demand for domestically produced goods, and the government starting wars to create jobs, there would be massive unemployment, crime, famine, and what-have-you
The US didn't have welfare, government agencies, or onerous trade barriers on imports in the late Eighteenth and Nineteenth century. The US didn't start wars to create jobs during that time either. There was no "massive" unemployment, runaway crime, famine or what have you then. Why would there be now?
any well educated economist will tell you that the gold standard thing wouldnt last very long without some sort of intervention
Incorrect. Maybe some economists educated in US government schools would say such a thing, but there are many highly regarded economists who have shown that fiat currency is entirely unnecessary to the health of a free economy. And of course, there are numerous examples of fiat currency devastating economies. It's happening right now in the Dominican Republic.
someone has to get paid less than 1 dollar an hour to make our 120$ nike shoes
Capitalism can be maintained and even flourish without the existence of $120 Nike shoes.
pinky
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 9 years, 29 days
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Phred]
#1703290 - 07/10/03 06:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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What I was hoping to do in my posts was offer examples of resistence to Capitalism. In a lot of ways, Communism is a reaction by the lower economic classes against the higher economic classes. I'm not justifying anything, but that's what has happened. This may be too deterministic for you, I don't know. But look at the examples of supposed oppression--they both describe the same spoiled kid with a bloated sense of entitlement. That's not the same "oppression" that is felt, however accurately or unaccurately, in other parts of the world. I mean, really, some people get a really shitty end of the stick and no law is broken.
Capitalist apologists can sidestep the issue with examples out of left field, and they can continue to say "No one is forcing them..." or whatever (yes it's generally true but it doesn't adequately cover the situation), but it won't make the problem, if there is one, or one developing, go away.
But anyway, that's what I see as a possible obstacle to Capitalism. Where a Capitalist says "Your idea of 'oppression' is a non-concept" it might increase the possibility of something Marxist-ish from taking hold--a "dictatorship of the proletariat" or some other unrestful climate.
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1704258 - 07/10/03 11:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's just a shame an IQ test and a steady source of income isn't required before having kids.
That's not very libertarian of you. Wouldn't that require governmental interference that you supposedly despise? As a matter of fact,that sounds pretty communist to me.
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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: hongomon]
#1704611 - 07/11/03 02:26 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Capitalist apologists can sidestep the issue with examples out of left field, and they can continue to say "No one is forcing them..." or whatever
I suppose they'd say the same about child prostitution in south east asia where after working for 10 cents an hour all day kids still have to go out and sell their ass to earn enough to eat. "No-one is forcing that 10 year old to blow that 50 year old american, capitalism provides them with a choice..."
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Xlea321]
#1704652 - 07/11/03 02:38 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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There is a fine line between force and coercion (sp?).
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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,807
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: monoamine]
#1705086 - 07/11/03 05:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
grandmasterfat said:
Quote:
It's just a shame an IQ test and a steady source of income isn't required before having kids.
That's not very libertarian of you. Wouldn't that require governmental interference that you supposedly despise? As a matter of fact,that sounds pretty communist to me.
That springs from my personal dislike of stupidity, not any realistic political views.
Besides, if one wanted to really stretch the issue that stupidity harms the rest of us, that would fit in (remember we're stretching here) with anyone should be able to do anything they wish as long as no-one else is harmed.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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somebodyelse
In_Is_Out
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1705133 - 07/11/03 06:55 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's just a shame an IQ test and a steady source of income isn't required before having kids.
That springs from my personal dislike of stupidity, not any realistic political views.
Besides, if one wanted to really stretch the issue that stupidity harms the rest of us, that would fit in (remember we're stretching here) with anyone should be able to do anything they wish as long as no-one else is harmed.
Wow, I actually fully agree with you on this. So why can't we extend the desired IQ test to voting, too?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,807
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: somebodyelse]
#1705159 - 07/11/03 07:30 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think you actually agree with me more often than you admit.
That having been said, there's a lot of things I'd love to see an IQ test for.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 9 years, 29 days
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Xlea321]
#1708382 - 07/12/03 01:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, it's very often the circumstances that are putting the pressure on the person. And now, with capital as mobile as it is and companies as world-wide as they are, it's even less difficult to find and set up shop in areas with a lot of people facing starvation, with whom a business might be holding nearly all the bargaining chips.
It seems we are only expected to appreciate these business for offering something. I don't always feel the gratitude.
Anyway, I wonder now if pinky might step away from the defense position and take on the "campaigner" role--to try and present Capitalism to a skeptical but interested "voter", just as an exercise. He has made some good points, but maybe a compendium of sorts--or a link to where it's been done might go well here.
(Sorry to address you obliquely like this pinky, it's in the interest of time)
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DoctorJ
Stranger
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,439
Loc: space
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Phred]
#1708691 - 07/12/03 04:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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in order to have HAVES, you have to have HAVENOTS.
Besides, capitalism always reverts to communism over time, and vice versa. its just a cycle, and every part of that cycle has its pros and cons, just like everything else.
haven't you guys been paying attention?
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peace, pot, and microdot!
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DoctorJ
Stranger
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,439
Loc: space
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Re: Is worldwide Capitalism impossible? [Re: Phred]
#1708717 - 07/12/03 04:41 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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>...Could you please explain to us how Bill Gates's greedy possession of three enormous mansions, seven Ferraris and bathtubs full of champagne prevents anyone else from acquiring enough to live well? Thanks<
Um... yeah dude, its called "finite resources" and "exponentially increasing population"
Now, if somebody wanted to spend some serious money on physics research, terraforming Mars, and mining/building a zero-g launchpad on the moon, we could solve both of these problems, but most rich people I know are way more concerned about stuffing their faces, watching TV, and buying wasteful consumer products.
not to mention the crapulence of our education system... see? I actually think "crapulence" is a word 
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peace, pot, and microdot!
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