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 mtlmike90
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine
 
Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 905
Loc: SC
Last seen: 10 hours, 49 minutes
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Quote:
Majordoobage said:
Quote:
mtlmike90 said:
Looks like you might have a bacterial contamination going on there.
Is there any use in salvaging these cakes? Can I birth them and consume the resulting shrooms without adverse health effects?
Salvaging, yes there's a chance but not likely. Your jars aren't even 100% yet, so that means that the contaminant is going to keep growing also. I just don't think you'll have much luck, it looks like you still might have like another 1 or 2 before you can birth, by then the contaminant should have spread. Even if you did fruit, you'd run the risk of spreading contams in your FC that will contam all your other grows. I'd toss them, but keep monitoring them if you still wanna try fruiting.
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SelkieSellDaCelly
Stranger
Registered: 01/28/12
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 Re: My 1st PF Tek Grow! Orange contams?  [Re: Majordoobage]
#16423931 - 06/23/12 04:12 AM (10 months, 25 days ago) |
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Lemme repeat the golden rule of the pf tek WHEN IM DOUBT THROW IT OUT is getting high on shrooms worth getting Hella sick?
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nastos
secret secretions
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 7,245
Last seen: 1 day, 22 hours
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.looks like bacteria to me. Possibly metabolites hard to tell. If it finishes colonizing you can birth it and wash the nasties off and see what happens.
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TheApprentice
Cracked Corn Boss.
Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 1,728
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Quote:
Majordoobage said:
Quote:
mtlmike90 said:
Looks like you might have a bacterial contamination going on there.
Is there any use in salvaging these cakes? Can I birth them and consume the resulting shrooms without adverse health effects?
dude i would just wait for a few. i remember something called "myc piss" which is harmless last i checked... smell the top of the jar bro. does it smell fucked up?
anyone remember myc piss? or am i stoned? 
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Majordoobage
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Registered: 05/31/12
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So I've continued to employ the "whiff" test with these two jars (despite the notion that sniffing jars could lead to serious adverse health effects) and haven't detected any malodor. I have read reports of others who couldn't detect bad odors when their cakes were in jars but subsequently smelled it once the cake was removed. I am not fully convinced by the lack of smell in my jar.
I've looked at countless pictures of myc piss and the staining seems a lot lighter in color. Mine has a burnt orange hue surrounding very dark spots, which is why I'm skeptical it's myc piss. I really don't have any experience so my opinion is pure conjecture. Two other members have said that it looks like metabolites to them as well.
All that being said, the 2 jars in question have been the fastest colonizers of the bunch. Furthermore, the mycelium in these jars continue to spread like crazy despite any possible contams. No smell, fast colonization, and continued growth makes me believe that it might not be contaminated after all. Maybe it is just metabolites. Again I really have no experience, so I'm grasping for straws here. Would love to hear what a TC thinks...
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TheApprentice
Cracked Corn Boss.
Registered: 09/26/11
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Last seen: 16 hours, 10 minutes
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Quote:
Majordoobage said:
I have read reports of others who couldn't detect bad odors when their cakes were in jars but subsequently smelled it once the cake was removed. I am not fully convinced by the lack of smell in my jar.
I've looked at countless pictures of myc piss and the staining seems a lot lighter in color. Mine has a burnt orange hue surrounding very dark spots, which is why I'm skeptical it's myc piss. I really don't have any experience so my opinion is pure conjecture. Two other members have said that it looks like metabolites to them as well.
All that being said, the 2 jars in question have been the fastest colonizers of the bunch. Furthermore, the mycelium in these jars continue to spread like crazy despite any possible contams. No smell, fast colonization, and continued growth makes me believe that it might not be contaminated after all. Maybe it is just metabolites. Again I really have no experience, so I'm grasping for straws here. Would love to hear what a TC thinks...
ya bro, i don't think its contam. but like i said, idk. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to smell it from a pf jar. i know I've had it happen to my jars, the myc piss, and i freaked out, but it was cool. this was like 2006, and so much info has changed on here since then. sorry i can't give you a definite answer, but they look like my jars back then and they were straight.
maybe ask them A.M.U. dudes AMU - they answer questions
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mtlmike90
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine
Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 905
Loc: SC
Last seen: 10 hours, 49 minutes
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Well there is myc piss there. It's also released when there are contams present because the myc piss has antibiotics in it. You won't be able to smell anything till you get the cake out, but im very sure its contamed. Like I said, if you wanna wait it out and see what happens. If you made your jars right, you shouldn't have to worry about spreading contams. If the myc stalls or the infections has grown or has not disappeared in a week or two then simply discard it.
I had a jar come back from a minor bacterial contam, how that happened I dunno but it worked, I just waited and it disappeared. However just because it worked for me doesn't mean it will for you. And i haven't been able to reproduce these results again.
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 FrankHorrigan
Protos Heis
Registered: 01/05/11
Posts: 5,258
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Re: Update 06/19/12 [Re: mtlmike90]
#16426407 - 06/23/12 06:34 PM (10 months, 24 days ago) |
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Metabolites, or "myc piss" is a normal reaction of the mycelium to stress. It doesn't necessarily indicate anything, contam or otherwise.
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mrmojoshroomin
All-summa BeenNoddin
Registered: 01/25/12
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Metabolites, or "myc piss" is a normal reaction of the mycelium to stress. It doesn't necessarily indicate anything, contam or otherwise.
*Mycelium produces metabolites in response to contaminants or stress. These are antibiotic compounds that the mycelium produces to kill competitor fungi or bacteria. They are not in any way, shape or form related to the urine that is secreted by mammals. The metabolites produced by mycelium of the penicillium fungus for example are used in human medicine as antibiotics to kill bacteria. The metabolites produced by mushroom mycelium serve a similar purpose. METABOLITES PURPOSE
Copied and pasted from RR's Notes.
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mtlmike90
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine
Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 905
Loc: SC
Last seen: 10 hours, 49 minutes
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Quote:
mrmojoshroomin said:
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Metabolites, or "myc piss" is a normal reaction of the mycelium to stress. It doesn't necessarily indicate anything, contam or otherwise.
*Mycelium produces metabolites in response to contaminants or stress. These are antibiotic compounds that the mycelium produces to kill competitor fungi or bacteria. They are not in any way, shape or form related to the urine that is secreted by mammals. The metabolites produced by mycelium of the penicillium fungus for example are used in human medicine as antibiotics to kill bacteria. The metabolites produced by mushroom mycelium serve a similar purpose. METABOLITES PURPOSE
Copied and pasted from RR's Notes.
I said the same thing but I guess since a TC said it too, that confirms it.
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TheApprentice
Cracked Corn Boss.
Registered: 09/26/11
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Re: Update 06/19/12 [Re: mtlmike90]
#16426542 - 06/23/12 07:08 PM (10 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
mtlmike90 said:
Quote:
mrmojoshroomin said:
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Metabolites, or "myc piss" is a normal reaction of the mycelium to stress. It doesn't necessarily indicate anything, contam or otherwise.
*Mycelium produces metabolites in response to contaminants or stress. These are antibiotic compounds that the mycelium produces to kill competitor fungi or bacteria. They are not in any way, shape or form related to the urine that is secreted by mammals. The metabolites produced by mycelium of the penicillium fungus for example are used in human medicine as antibiotics to kill bacteria. The metabolites produced by mushroom mycelium serve a similar purpose. METABOLITES PURPOSE
Copied and pasted from RR's Notes.
I said the same thing but I guess since a TC said it too, that confirms it.
so...its ok? 
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No Pour AGAR Tek * Easy COIR Trays! *
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"Yeah? Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!"
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mtlmike90
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine
Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 905
Loc: SC
Last seen: 10 hours, 49 minutes
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whats ok? If you mean the jar, then no it's not.
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Majordoobage
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
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Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: Update 06/19/12 [Re: mtlmike90]
#16426753 - 06/23/12 08:06 PM (10 months, 24 days ago) |
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I appreciate the responses guys. I think I'm gonna wait it out and see what happens. If the cakes fully colonize and consolidate for a week, then I'll pull 'em out and further investigate the situation (taking the necessary precautions). If they stall out, then I'll chuck 'em. I'm not against crumbling them outside with some poo. Crumbling a Texas cake + Mexi-cube cake = Tex-Mex hybrids!  
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mtlmike90
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine
Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 905
Loc: SC
Last seen: 10 hours, 49 minutes
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Actually, you wont get any hybrids. The mycelium can't share genetic material. Only when the spores have germinated and formed a hypha. You'll just have 2 different strains growing around each other.
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Majordoobage
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Re: Update 06/19/12 [Re: mtlmike90]
#16427360 - 06/23/12 10:29 PM (10 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
mtlmike90 said:
Actually, you wont get any hybrids. The mycelium can't share genetic material. Only when the spores have germinated and formed a hypha. You'll just have 2 different strains growing around each other.
Way to kill my dreams! 
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Majordoobage
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
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Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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It's been about a week since my last post, so I think an update is in order 
The cakes are progressing nicely! About half the cakes are 95-100% colonized while a few are 75% and a couple are at about 50%.
I decided to "re-penetrate" my PR jar and inoculated another cc of spore solution into the cake on 06/20 and I'm glad to report growth is occuring in 2 out of 4 innoc points! Problem is I don't know if this cake will be ready to birth by the end of July, so i might end up tossing it.
Some more good news: I figured out the case of the mysterious orange contams!!! CH Hell astutely pointed out that it looked like rust forming around metal shards. He was absolutely right. I opened the one 1/2 pint jar that I never touched during the initial innoc yesterday, and lo and behold there was small metal pieces at the bottom of the jar.  I guess I never cleaned out my jars good enough and some residual metal shards remained. Oh well, I doubt a little rust will adversely affect any growth.
One final note: I plan on crumbling 3 cakes and mixing it with some hpoo, verm, and gypsum per RR's instructions in a 9x13 baking dish. If I use about 2 quarts of sub, it works out to a ratio of about 1:2.5 (i used the substrate calculator which is fan-fuckin-tastic!).
Some questions:
1. Anyone know of adverse affects from crumbling cakes of different strains together in one pan?
2. I've read that you shouldn't use disposable aluminum pans because the fungus will eat through it, does this also apply to thick metal pans?
3. I still haven't made up my mind about casing (whether to do it or what materials to use), all suggestions are welcome.
4. I've also read about people crumbling cakes by hand, in a food processor, and smashing it in a ziplock bag. Are any of these methods preferred or outdated?
Thanks again Shroomery for all the help! Stay black!
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mtlmike90
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine
Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 905
Loc: SC
Last seen: 10 hours, 49 minutes
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OP i'm glad to hear it was just rust an nothing more serious. Sorry I was being pessimistic. To answer your questions...
1. It is not detrimental, at first they may compete for nutes but eventually they join and just form one large mycelial network with different looking mushrooms.
2. Yes that is correct aluminum is no good. If you use thick pans of a different metal I don't see why there should be a problem. Thick aluminum pans might work for a while.
3. Casing is not necessary with P. cubensis as long as you are providing the proper conditions. All casing does is provide a better micro-environment to promote knotting but if you are using suitable conditions you shouldn't worry about one. If you want to add a casing layer there are different teks to use, I can't tell you which one is best because they all work and people have their preferences. I use peat moss and verm. Also, by casing you are also risking contamination unless you take care of pH levels.
4. Fully colonized cakes can fight off contams pretty well. All those methods work. If your trying to use a cake as spawn to transfer to a grain you should probably crumble the cakes in a sterile environment and then transfer. If you're using pasteurized bulk substrate you can crumble the cakes out in the open. I prefer crumbling in a ziploc bag, i just feel like it's cleaner, faster, and easier.
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Majordoobage
Stranger
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Re: Update 06/27/12 [Re: mtlmike90]
#16452846 - 06/28/12 09:08 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
mtlmike90 said:
OP i'm glad to hear it was just rust an nothing more serious. Sorry I was being pessimistic. To answer your questions...
1. It is not detrimental, at first they may compete for nutes but eventually they join and just form one large mycelial network with different looking mushrooms.
2. Yes that is correct aluminum is no good. If you use thick pans of a different metal I don't see why there should be a problem. Thick aluminum pans might work for a while.
3. Casing is not necessary with P. cubensis as long as you are providing the proper conditions. All casing does is provide a better micro-environment to promote knotting but if you are using suitable conditions you shouldn't worry about one. If you want to add a casing layer there are different teks to use, I can't tell you which one is best because they all work and people have their preferences. I use peat moss and verm. Also, by casing you are also risking contamination unless you take care of pH levels.
4. Fully colonized cakes can fight off contams pretty well. All those methods work. If your trying to use a cake as spawn to transfer to a grain you should probably crumble the cakes in a sterile environment and then transfer. If you're using pasteurized bulk substrate you can crumble the cakes out in the open. I prefer crumbling in a ziploc bag, i just feel like it's cleaner, faster, and easier.
Haha no worries about the pessimism, I'm just glad you and others in the community offer help and support to newbs like me
Thanks for answering my questions. I think I'm going to stick to using only one strain in the pan. I read somewhere that some growers experience lackluster yields when combining two strains. I'm not sure if this is founded on evidence but better safe than sorry.
I'm going to pasteurize my sub tonight, but I don't know if I'll be able to combine my spawn and my sub tomorrow morning... Will it stay good for about 24-48 hrs after pasteurizing? Again I plan on using horse manure, verm, and gypsum.
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oreocookieme
Oreo
Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 10
Loc: South Cali
Last seen: 10 months, 18 days
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oh no bro!
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Majordoobage
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 60
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Hello friends! Hope everyone is doing well on this very hot Saturday morning.
We're approaching the one month mark on this little grow here. Out of the 10 original cakes:
-3 mexi BRF cakes have been crumbled (ziplock bag) to Hpoo/verm/gypsum on 07/01
-5 mexi BRF cakes are 100% colonized, consolidating in their jars
-1 texas BRF cake had consolidated for over a week, started pinning in the jar, then dunked, rolled, and put into my SGFC 48 hours ago
-I have been misting and fanning approx 3x/day
-1 puerto rico BRF cake colonized about 30%, probably going to be chucked outside soon
Here's the Texas cake hanging out in the SGFC. It's been 2 days, and still no signs of pins. I'm going to start misting less. I think misting 3x/day is excessive and causing the cake to be too damp. Any thoughts?
Here's the tray with Hpoo sub. The poo was pasteurized in jars after bringing to field capacity, and the internal temperature reached 178F for about 10 mins  I took the jars out of the water and allowed them to cool to about 170 for an hour then completely cooled for 8 hours. here it is after 6 days:
After checking my sub today, I noticed a few little pools of water sitting on top of the spreading myc (circled in red). I used a piece of toilet paper to absorb most of it. Here's a close-up shot:
I just noticed that my SGFC isn't large enough to house 6 cakes and a 9x13 pan, so I need to figure out another type of fruiting chamber for my tray. I'm courting the idea of fruiting in open air with occasional misting. Hit me up with your suggestions! Thanks 
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