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Saint Marcus
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Preconceived notions on Enlightenment?
#16362158 - 06/10/12 07:29 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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I would like to hear others experiences and opinions on the term and state of being known as enlightenment. I know I have had a lot of ideas about enlightenment that I have found to be inaccurate and I was wondering what are some of the beliefs behind this term.
I am sure some of us here have experience with becoming or being enlightened.
I myself had the most profound experience with this during a san pedro journey. It was ego dissolution with an all encompassing Oneness. It was heaven and hell, Yin and Yang. The great integrity is the best way that I can describe the state of being.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Saint Marcus]
#16362169 - 06/10/12 07:31 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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Enlightenment begins with realizing that we are not in control.
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soldatheero
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#16362243 - 06/10/12 07:48 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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To me I guess a simple way of putting it is.. enlightenment means you have no sanksaras, no impressions. You no longer see reality through a matrix of perception, this matrix can be likened to a lense in which you view reality.
It means the dissolution of the external world, nothing is left but your own self and you experience yourself as the oversoul, the sole existence. This means in enlightenment you no longer experience the phenomenal world of duality - illusion . The phenomonal world is why we experience ourselves as being in TIME and conditioned by time, an illusory series of moments constantly going in and out of consciousness. The experience of enligthenment means no more time but instaed a ceaseless continuum of super consciousness which makes the consciousness you experience now nothing but a dream in comparison.
This is said by Meher to be the state of the real ego and the end of the false ego. The ego of God replaces the only finite limited ego, this is the purpose of the world, to become conscious of youself as being God. So in the end it is the MIND that is annhilated, the seat of the false ego is destroyed in what is termed MANONASH.
Quote:
Manonash
(complete annihilation of the mind)
This message was printed and sent out to Baba’s lovers throughout the world.
From, Meherazad (Pimpalgaon), Maharashtra, India, on Feb.06.1952
“God is everywhere and does everything.
God is within us and knows everything.
God is without us and sees everything.
God is beyond us and IS everything.
…. To try to understand with the mind that which the mind can never understand is futile; and to try to express by sounds of language and in the form of words the transcendental state of the Soul, is even more futile. All that can be said and has been said, and will be said by those who live and experience that State is, that when the false self is lost, the Real Self is found; that the birth of Real can only follow the death of the false; and that dying to ourselves __ the true death which ends all dying __ is the only way to perpetual life.
this means that when the mind with its satellites __desires, cravings, longings __ is completely consumed by the fire of Divine Love, then the infinite, indestructible, indivisible, eternal Self is manifested. This is Manonash, the annihilation of the false, limited, miserable, ignorant, destructible “I”, to be replaced by the Real “I”, the possessor of Infinite Knowledge, Love, Power, Peace, Bliss and Glory, in its unchangeable existence.
Manonash results in this glorious state in which plurality goes and Unity comes, ignorance goes and Knowledge comes, binding goes and Freedom comes. We are all permanently lodged in this shoreless Ocean of Infinite Knowledge, and yet are infinitely ignorant of it, until the mind __ which is the source of this ignorance __ vanishes forever: for ignorance ceases to exist when the mind ceases to exist!
Unless and until ignorance is removed and Knowledge is gained __ the Knowledge whereby the Divine Life is experienced and lived __ everything pertaining to the spiritual seems paradoxical.
God whom we do not see, we say is real: and the world that we do see, we say is false. In experience, what exists for us does not really exists: and what does not exist for us, really exists.
We must lose ourselves in order to find ourselves. Thus loss itself is gain.
We must die to self to live in God. Thus death means life.
We must become completely void inside to be completely possessed by God. Thus complete emptiness means absolute Fullness.
We must become naked of selfhood by possessing nothing, so as to be absorbed in the infinity of God. Thus nothing ,means everything.
…. To sum up my Manonash work in short:
I feel in all truth that the four months’ Manonash work has been done by me, by the help of God, to my entire satisfaction. The result of this work must bear fruit, sooner or later; either in the immediate present, or some time later, or in the distant future. The result will bring Freedom to us all in proportion to our merits of Love, Faith and Service. This Freedom will be freedom from ignorance, and will be the Knowledge that we always were, are and will be One with God. This Knowledge will make us realize and experience Infinite Love, Power, Bliss and Peace, which we always possessed and knew not of.”
Meher Baba
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#16362283 - 06/10/12 07:57 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Enlightenment begins with realizing that we are not in control.
..and then can extend to the adoption of irrational tenets.
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Saint Marcus
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#16362312 - 06/10/12 08:01 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
It means the dissolution of the external world, nothing is left but your own self and you experience yourself as the oversoul, the sole existence. This means in enlightenment you no longer experience the phenomenal world of duality - illusion . The phenomonal world is why we experience ourselves as being in TIME and conditioned by time, an illusory series of moments constantly going in and out of consciousness. The experience of enligthenment means no more time but instaed a ceaseless continuum of super consciousness which makes the consciousness you experience now nothing but a dream in comparison.
Quote:
WOW! That resonated extremely strong....Wow I am almost flabbergasted at a slight loss for words. This was EXACTLY my experience with the term/state of being Enlightenment.
Suggestions on how to feel it always? That is one of my big "desires" in life although I am practicing acceptance but in truly not only knowing this but really FEELING it....It is easier though than done lol 
Also I was struck very deeply by these statements. I know this to be true. But it does seem so paradoxical and slightly ridiculous to a person who has never had this type of experience. I know if someone were to tell me this b4 my profound experience i would have regarded it as dribble or basically useless.
"We must lose ourselves in order to find ourselves. Thus loss itself is gain. We must die to self to live in God. Thus death means life. We must become completely void inside to be completely possessed by God. Thus complete emptiness means absolute Fullness. We must become naked of selfhood by possessing nothing, so as to be absorbed in the infinity of God. Thus nothing ,means everything."
Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Enlightenment begins with realizing that we are not in control.
..and then can extend to the adoption of irrational tenets.
not to offend or be rude or anything like that but these statments seemed empty and shallow. It just didn't really fit with me or what I have experienced....But again my experience with enlightenment was the Great Integrity so that is basically everything as well as this statement...Complete Unity and Oneness.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Saint Marcus]
#16362340 - 06/10/12 08:08 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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An appreciation of being empty and shallow doesn't make them inaccurate tho.
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Saint Marcus
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#16362517 - 06/10/12 08:38 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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But we are empty and full at the same time. are we not?
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Saint Marcus]
#16362568 - 06/10/12 08:45 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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Preconceived notions are entertaining.
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BlindSoothsayer
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#16362725 - 06/10/12 09:14 PM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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I still really have no idea what to think about Enlightenment. I'm more interested in post-conceived notions on Enlightenment.
-------------------- I like whiskey in my water and acid on my blotter.
The past is brought into perspective only after new experience is gained: before that point, experience is never truly realized.
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Saint Marcus
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Refer to what Sold has said above ya it's kinda like that. Think about the ramifications of In Lak'ech ala K'in. If I am you, you are me, and we are one....
The possibilities are inifinite. Learning how to harness that power will take a lifetime. But imagine the possibilities. If you truly are GOD....
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Saint Marcus
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Saint Marcus]
#16362785 - 06/10/12 09:25 PM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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The amazing thing is the belief in something does make it true....That is y I do not vibe with the comment that Buster made about relinquishing all control. It is a very disempowering hopeless notion.
Instead what if the answer was realizing that you have ALL the control. That the center of UR universe is U. That u have control over all of ur actions and even ur thoughts.
C how much different these two beliefs are? Which one would make you feel better? Which one would u rather believe?
LoL
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Buster_Brown
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Quote:
BlindSoothsayer said: I'm more interested in post-conceived notions on Enlightenment.
A post-conceived notion would be more rational.
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Saint Marcus
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#16362934 - 06/10/12 09:54 PM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
BlindSoothsayer said: I'm more interested in post-conceived notions on Enlightenment.
A post-conceived notion would be more rational.
Says? says u? lol r we discussing a very rational thing here? lol
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Icelander
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Saint Marcus]
#16363074 - 06/10/12 10:18 PM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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Heaven forbid rationality in this forum.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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LustfulLinsanity
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#16363193 - 06/10/12 10:46 PM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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I view enlightenment, as being fully merged with God (the one conciousness, universal mind, or whatever your interpretation of god is). You can retain a physical body, but at this point there really is no necessity to stay. Those that reach enlightenment and chose to stay, i would say chose only to do so to be of assistance in helping raise the concsiousness of other people. We are enlightened, we have just forgotten
-------------------- I wish to become enlightened, to know bliss, to be a pure expression of joy, to slake my insatiable thirst.
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Icelander
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Nice belief system.
I find it hard to believe that the universe forgot itself however.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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soldatheero
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#16363263 - 06/10/12 11:05 PM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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No why not? Do you not forget yourself? Are you not the universe? Are you not reality?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Saint Marcus
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Icelander]
#16363402 - 06/10/12 11:36 PM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I find it hard to believe that the universe forgot itself however.
99.9999% (guess) of people forgot who they are, where they come from, and their purpose on this reincarnation As have u.....
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Saint Marcus
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Quote:
LustfulLinsanity said: I view enlightenment, as being fully merged with God (the one conciousness, universal mind, or whatever your interpretation of god is). You can retain a physical body, but at this point there really is no necessity to stay. Those that reach enlightenment and chose to stay, i would say chose only to do so to be of assistance in helping raise the concsiousness of other people. We are enlightened, we have just forgotten
Thank you for ur response. The last part is quite beautiful.
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rsrkt
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Re: Preconceived notions on Enlightenment? [Re: Saint Marcus]
#16364178 - 06/11/12 03:01 AM (11 months, 5 days ago) |
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Listen to this ladys experience of it, you can reach it through a stroke out the crown chakra you gooooo... Huuuuuugeeeee and expaaaaaannnsiiiveeeeee
-------------------- ♥ Sungazing ♥ Binaural Beats ♥ The DJ Producer ♥ Industrial Hardcore ♥ Fruityloops ♥ Silence/Stillness/Awareness/Energy ♥ Ayurveda ♥
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