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Icelander said:
The Buddha was a genius psychologist who discovered a method for reducing or eliminating suffering. The rest, piled on like a compost pile is religion and mostly bullshit and personally I think he'd be appalled at what goes on in his name. At least I would hope so.

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I agree with this. Research Vipassana meditation, this is the technique that is believed to be the original technique that the Buddha discovered and taught to his disciples over 2500 years ago, and believed to be preserved exactly as it was taught then. Check out Dhamma.org and you will find centers all over the world still teaching the method today in 3 day, 10 day, 20 day, and even 50 day courses... and for free too! though it is fully supported by donations.

Yeah no bullshit. No religious overtones. No fear-mongering. Just pure meditation and guidance through the technique. As well as daily courses touching on the nature of the mind and reality (from the Buddha's perspective of course).

When I was first researching it I came to the conclusion that since it is a free course and has become so widespread, then it is most likely practical and useful. And if not, at least benevolent in nature.

And in my experience, after doing the course myself in Nepal, I can tell you it is all those things and more Much love for the Buddha

Though yes, be careful with what you read about the different schools of Buddhism and what they teach. I took a course on the Lam Rim once, one of the Buddhist texts supposedly presenting the "complete path to enlightenment", as taught by the Buddha. Though over the years there have been several different teachers who have come out with their own versions of it, with contradictory claims and statements and whatnot. For example, one of the differences is that in some schools, they put much more emphasis on the teaching of Karma in order to deter people from acting immorally. Also, keep in mind that at that time Buddhism had grown to be accepted by quite a large number of people, and so certain neighboring countries had selected it as their "national religion." Whereas in essence it is more like a philosophy, or a spiritual guide for living one's life and attaining self-realization.

Yeah I know some Japanese people here that talk about how their parents would make them go to Sunday morning meditation and Puja (prayer) haha. Same as with any other religion.

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HungryHipp07 said:
What is your opinion on Buddhism? It is very spiritual because the goal is to be your true self and maybe even reach enlightenment.

Do you think Buddhism is a typical religion with a bunch of bullshit or does it make actual sense?
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I'd really like to know what you all think.

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there's many different schools and flavours of buddhism - some are more typically "religious" than others

with all schools though, the idea is that buddhism is just a raft to get you to the other shore [nirvana/peace] and once there the raft is to be discarded. so unlike other religions, buddhism (in theory) has this self-destructing mechanism built into it.

this quick talk describes this idea pretty succinctly:

also, like with all things - different people follow/understand buddhism differently. some people make it into more of a typical religion than others, some are very sparse with what aspects they accept of it, etc...

personally i really like buddhism - i feel it's a great path(s) to peace. if you're intersted in learning more, here's a great buddhist forum that covers all the schools of mahayana buddhism: www.dharmawheel.net - and here is a forum dedicated to theravada buddhism: www.dhammawheel.com

as for if it makes sense or is just bullshit, that's up to you to decide for yourself

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usulpsychonaut said:
I'm Buddhist. I don't read any Buddhist books, don't meditate, no fasting or discipline of any kind. I blaspheme the buddha often and my technique for getting happy or mystical is eating cannabis. This pretty much sums up my buddhism. Doing or saying stuff for spirituality is really just feeding shallow vanity.

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HungryHipp07 said:
What is your opinion on Buddhism? It is very spiritual because the goal is to be your true self and maybe even reach enlightenment.

Do you think Buddhism is a typical religion with a bunch of bullshit or does it make actual sense?
;
I'd really like to know what you all think.

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HungryHipp07 said:
i will try Vipassana, im sure there's a center around my place.. what's your thoughts on Enlightnment?

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nicechrisman said:

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HungryHipp07 said:
i will try Vipassana, im sure there's a center around my place.. what's your thoughts on Enlightnment?

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The way that I've come to understand enlightenment is that it isn't something to be chased or found or sought after. The idea is that it is already in you, it's just that your ego gets in the way of realizing it. Like the sun behind the clouds. I think those who chase enlightenment are only creating more desire. Just quiet your mind.

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Aye, it's getting your own mind out of the way to let your own inherent Buddha nature shine through. It can only happen Now, in the moment. Eckart Tolle's stuff is pretty power at getting at this idea.

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HungryHipp07 said:
i will try Vipassana, im sure there's a center around my place.. what's your thoughts on Enlightnment?

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Good for you check the map on dhamma.org and you will probably find a center nearby. You might want to try the 3 day course first unless you feel like you really have what it takes to get through 10 days of meditation. And when I say 10 days of meditation, I mean 10 days of meditation! Literally, you will meditate 10 hours per day, will not be allowed to talk to anybody or make gestures/eye contact, will eat only 2 light vegetarian meals per day, and will only have tea in the evenings, and only water with lemon for old students. It's pretty hardcore.

As for enlightenment? I don't know I wouldn't capitalize it, I'll tell you that much. You don't want to put it on a pedestal. Just do the work and be persistent and you will notice huge changes in your attitude, energy level, and general level of awareness. You will find that through practice it is possible to ride a higher wave, so to speak, a higher frequency of being. As for the highest level? I'm not sure exactly. I imagine it would be something like a continuous state of ecstasy, coupled with supreme peace and self-control, as well as having a deep inner knowledge of the truth in regards to the nature of reality and the spirit. But yeah, for the yogis that have attained enlightenment, I don't think they stay in that state continuously. Unless they choose to become hermits and just absorb into the bliss. No, I think that once you attain that state, you inevitably come down, come back to Earth, and continue on living your life and attempting to fulfill your worldly purpose. As the Zen proverb goes, "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."

There are some things I don't understand about Buddhism though. Like the whole "I must attain enlightenment in order to escape from the eternal suffering that is Samsara (the cycle of death and rebirth to which life in the material world is bound), and attain everlasting Nirvana (a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire, nor sense of self, and the subject is released from the effects of karma and samsara.)" Yeah, I don't know about that. I still don't understand why I would want that exactly. No one can explain that to me. All I know is, I love my life, and I love this planet. And though this world is not perfect, I believe that together we have the power to create a "heaven" out of it. But that's just me I guess...

On the other hand, if you look deeper into Hinduism you will find that they have 2 highest possible goals. One being the same as Buddhism, liberation from rebirth, enlightenment. And the other being Self-realization, or union with God. So yeah, again I'm still trying to figure out for myself why anyone would want enlightenment over union with the divine, if those are the two options for highest attainment. Anyone?

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Memories said:

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usulpsychonaut said:
I'm Buddhist. I don't read any Buddhist books, don't meditate, no fasting or discipline of any kind. I blaspheme the buddha often and my technique for getting happy or mystical is eating cannabis. This pretty much sums up my buddhism. Doing or saying stuff for spirituality is really just feeding shallow vanity.

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So basically, you just call yourself a Buddhist because you think it sounds cool.

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Icelander said:
I have several friends who do the 10 day at least once a year and all seem to have benefited.  They are not in the least enlightened but very relaxed about life in general.

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Rail_Gun said:
It's a cult that controls people and leads them to live in a a particular way. It is much less destructive than the monotheistic religions. Don't be taken in by the peacemongering. The Dalai Llama just wants to be the absolute king of Tibet again. Many of the previous Dalai Llamas ordered people to be executed by torture. At least is not monotheistic, but all religion is evil.

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Shrooomtastic said:
Whereas in essence it is more like a philosophy, or a spiritual guide for living one's life and attaining self-realization.

Yeah I know some Japanese people here that talk about how their parents would make them go to Sunday morning meditation and Puja (prayer) haha. Same as with any other religion.

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re·li·gion
   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious  beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

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As the Zen proverb goes, "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."

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Icelander said:
Many of the previous Dalai Llamas ordered people to be executed by torture.

where are you getting this information?

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HagbardCeline said:

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Rail_Gun said:
It's a cult that controls people and leads them to live in a a particular way. It is much less destructive than the monotheistic religions. Don't be taken in by the peacemongering. The Dalai Llama just wants to be the absolute king of Tibet again. Many of the previous Dalai Llamas ordered people to be executed by torture. At least is not monotheistic, but all religion is evil.

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How is Buddhism destructive?  What about it is evil?

I highly doubt you are very well versed in Buddhist teachings if you claim it is controlling of people.

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Happy birthday!!!     

I'm taking the position that all religion is destructive and controlling of people. Buddhism isn't any exception. Contrary to it's appearance, the following is not the free thinkers club, but is of a Buddhist monastery.



All of those poor suckers were taken in by the deceit of religion. They will never marry, or even have sex, because their religion controls them. The way to really tell a cult in my opinion is if it regulates the sex lives of it's members.

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Rail_Gun said:

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Icelander said:
Many of the previous Dalai Llamas ordered people to be executed by torture.

where are you getting this information?

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It was in an episode of Penn and Teller Bullshit. It was actually the Dalai Llama's immediate predecessor that abolished the death penalty in Tibet. Prior to that torture and execution by direct order of the Dalai Llama was common. I do not respect any government that does not derive it's authority from the consent of the governed. Tibet's religious dictatorship was not any more free than the current communist regime.

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HagbardCeline said:
Again, Tibetan Buddhism is but one sect.  Many Buddhists consider it far removed from Buddha's on it worship of deities and reliance on talismans and the like.  If I remember correctly, it is an amalgamation of the traditional religion that existed in Tibet with the merger of Buddhism.

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HagbardCeline said:

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Icelander said:
I have several friends who do the 10 day at least once a year and all seem to have benefited.  They are not in the least enlightened but very relaxed about life in general.

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I know you don't like reading long posts, so in case this goes overboard, I do have a question for you at the end.

I pretty much agree with the other things you posted about Buddhism.  My heavy research in Buddhism only began in the past couple of months and I found that I several been living with several misconceptions, some were a relief to learn, others were more troubling (potentially at least, but isn't potential alone worthy of the claim?) than I imagined.  When you learn that all of the teachings weren't written down until far after Buddha has actually died, it's a bit disheartening and leaves you wondering how accurate the modern message actually is.  (In that respect it's the same as Christianity.)  Not to mention the other contradictions between the various sects you find.

Fortunately though, what is there that is agreed on is good enough to deserve the recognition and praise that more intellectually honest people have discovered.  My favorite aspect about Buddhism so far is it's non-reliance on faith.  Every other religion I've seen requires faith to support a belief in their religion.  Despite some of the claims Buddhism makes requiring that faith, the meat of it does not and that material alone seems to provide more than enough for me at least to continue my evaluation.  Which is exactly the attitude Buddha would likely encourage me to follow.

If you don't mind answering though, what do you believe enlightenment is?  If have seen several of your posts which could be interpreted as believing it doesn't exist and just wondered what it would take to convince you that someone actually was enlightened.

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This post wasn't that long.

To me, like "unconditional love",  enlightenment, to mean anything would be to understand the totality of everything.

I prefer the term awakened as it only implies that one is not fully asleep in culture.

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SweetLeafSamadhi said:

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HagbardCeline said:
Again, Tibetan Buddhism is but one sect.  Many Buddhists consider it far removed from Buddha's on it worship of deities and reliance on talismans and the like.  If I remember correctly, it is an amalgamation of the traditional religion that existed in Tibet with the merger of Buddhism.

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Tibetan Buddhism interacted with what has come to be referred to as "Bon," the indigenous tradition in Tibet.
Similarly, Buddhism held interplay with what came to be known as "Shinto" in Japan.

This claim could probably be made about other countries which Buddhism entered as well.  Buddhism never really made it a point of wiping out indigenous beliefs as much as accommodating for the practices to be continued under the umbrella of Buddhism.

It could be considered a "friendly" religion in entering some other countries with pre-existing belief-systems.

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Icelander said:
Even christianity has absorbed and incorporated other belief systems.

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True point.

Religions tend to do that.

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Rail_Gun said:
People get caught up and brainwashed by all religions. I don't believe Buddhism is any different than Christianity or the Hale-Bopp comet group in that regard. OP asked for opinions on Buddhism and he deserves a non-religious opinion as one of the answers. I don't want to wreck his thread with a debate, but I'd be glad to in another thread or via pm.

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SweetLeafSamadhi said:

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HagbardCeline said:
Again, Tibetan Buddhism is but one sect.  Many Buddhists consider it far removed from Buddha's on it worship of deities and reliance on talismans and the like.  If I remember correctly, it is an amalgamation of the traditional religion that existed in Tibet with the merger of Buddhism.

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Tibetan Buddhism interacted with what has come to be referred to as "Bon," the indigenous tradition in Tibet.
Similarly, Buddhism held interplay with what came to be known as "Shinto" in Japan.

This claim could probably be made about other countries which Buddhism entered as well.  Buddhism never really made it a point of wiping out indigenous beliefs as much as accommodating for the practices to be continued under the umbrella of Buddhism.

It could be considered a "friendly" religion in entering some other countries with pre-existing belief-systems.

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HagbardCeline said:
I agree with you post.  I should have been more careful with my wording, but my intent was show that it's important to recognize one aspect of one sect that evolved from teachings 2500 years ago is necessary for a competent evaluation.  Specifically, not all Buddhists would agree that those practices are "Buddhist."

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This sentiment shows up in interactions between differing branches and traditions; it even shows up occasionally among practitioners of the same sect.

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Rail_Gun said:
People get caught up and brainwashed by all religions. I don't believe Buddhism is any different than Christianity or the Hale-Bopp comet group in that regard. OP asked for opinions on Buddhism and he deserves a non-religious opinion as one of the answers. I don't want to wreck his thread with a debate, but I'd be glad to in another thread or via pm.

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HagbardCeline said:
Thanks for the kind b-day regards!

I'm taking the position that all religion is destructive and controlling of people

When you lack appropriate arguments backing that belief, it appears at least as dogmatic as the people promoting their beliefs on faith too. 

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Not all forms of Buddhism prohibit the monks from having sex or even being married, but celibacy does seem be one of the original teachings of Buddha. 

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However, were it to be an issue for an accomplished monk, in my understanding most sects would allow them to basically take a leave of absence where they could partake in sex if they chose.  If you are unaware, only the nuns and monks are required to be celibate, lay people are free to fuck if they choose to fuck.

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Most importantly though, since you claim that requirement of celibacy is your measure of being a cult (which is also not necessarily bad but most often is) I think may be cause from not understanding why that practice came into being.

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If you research why Buddha instituted celibacy, I think you'll find that it was a pretty rational and wise decision.  There are several aspects that caused it, but one of the most significant is rooted in the purpose Buddhism even exists, that desire causes suffering and sexual desire is one of the strongest humans have.  Renouncing the practice of sex though vows can allow someone who is committed to devoting their life to their beliefs the fortitude to overcome those desires and hopefully attain Buddhahood.  When the job of the monks or nuns is to primarily provide guidance to lay people in spiritual affairs, seeing people who have controlled their sexual desire to the degree they have demonstrates the attainability of something most regard as impossible.

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There are more reasons too, so I would suggest you spend a few days reading material on how and why this is important.

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c0sm0nautt said:
I think first and foremost one needs to separate the teachings from the so called practitioners. You are going to have people who claim to be all sorts of religions - these people span the human spectrum for better and worse.

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SweetLeafSamadhi said:

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HagbardCeline said:
Again, Tibetan Buddhism is but one sect.  Many Buddhists consider it far removed from Buddha's on it worship of deities and reliance on talismans and the like.  If I remember correctly, it is an amalgamation of the traditional religion that existed in Tibet with the merger of Buddhism.

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Tibetan Buddhism interacted with what has come to be referred to as "Bon," the indigenous tradition in Tibet.
Similarly, Buddhism held interplay with what came to be known as "Shinto" in Japan.

This claim could probably be made about other countries which Buddhism entered as well.  Buddhism never really made it a point of wiping out indigenous beliefs as much as accommodating for the practices to be continued under the umbrella of Buddhism.

It could be considered a "friendly" religion in entering some other countries with pre-existing belief-systems.

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c0sm0nautt said:
Are you saying every single practitioner of Buddhism is a bad person?
It's a very immature and naive outlook to have.

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There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

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c0sm0nautt said:
So let me follow your logic... religion is bad... religion is made up of it's people... there are no good or bad people.

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Memories said:
I agree with the basic precept of Buddhism, that life is suffering because of desire.

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Rail_Gun said:

All of those poor suckers were taken in by the deceit of religion. They will never marry, or even have sex, because their religion controls them. The way to really tell a cult in my opinion is if it regulates the sex lives of it's members.

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well there's actually a Buddhist ritual called yab-yum..
and it's like a sacred sex position..
They say it's an important step to follow the path of enlightenment.

Look at the picture or art whatever..

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HungryHipp07 said:

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Rail_Gun said:

All of those poor suckers were taken in by the deceit of religion. They will never marry, or even have sex, because their religion controls them. The way to really tell a cult in my opinion is if it regulates the sex lives of it's members.

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well there's actually a Buddhist ritual called yab-yum..
and it's like a sacred sex position..
They say it's an important step to follow the path of enlightenment.

Look at the picture or art whatever..

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Rail_Gun said:


All of those poor suckers were taken in by the deceit of religion. They will never marry, or even have sex, because their religion controls them. The way to really tell a cult in my opinion is if it regulates the sex lives of it's members.

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nicechrisman said:
I think there needs to be a distinction made between buddhism as a religion, and what buddha actually taught. Buddha worship and blind devotion actually go against many of buddha's teachings. He taught that one should question ALL teachings, and find what works for oneself. He taught that we can be happy if we can not be controlled by our ego. That said, his teachings have been passed down from teacher to student, the student becoming the teacher. I honor these teachers, but do not follow them blindly.

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Rail_Gun said:

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SweetLeafSamadhi said:

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HagbardCeline said:
Again, Tibetan Buddhism is but one sect.  Many Buddhists consider it far removed from Buddha's on it worship of deities and reliance on talismans and the like.  If I remember correctly, it is an amalgamation of the traditional religion that existed in Tibet with the merger of Buddhism.

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Tibetan Buddhism interacted with what has come to be referred to as "Bon," the indigenous tradition in Tibet.
Similarly, Buddhism held interplay with what came to be known as "Shinto" in Japan.

This claim could probably be made about other countries which Buddhism entered as well.  Buddhism never really made it a point of wiping out indigenous beliefs as much as accommodating for the practices to be continued under the umbrella of Buddhism.

It could be considered a "friendly" religion in entering some other countries with pre-existing belief-systems.

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So instead of wiping out the native traditions it merely assimilates them into the "collective." It reminds me of the Borg in Star Trek the Next Generation. I'd describe the tactic as "insidious" rather than "friendly."

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If you choose to view it as negative then you can.

Brought it up as "friendly" as a contrast to forced conversion.

There are countries (Nepal, for example) where Buddhist priests will perform indigenous rituals for locals.
The locals define themselves of being of other faiths; the priests are devoutly Buddhist.
The priest views the ritual from within his or her own tradition and performs the ceremony for the locals. 
Something like a goat sacrifice may be seen as an offering to a local storm deity for the indigenous practitioners; it is simultaneously viewed as pure offerings to Buddhist figures by the priest.

The boundaries are more porous than a sort of "convert or die" sentiment that has historically showed up in various faiths.

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HungryHipp07 said:

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Rail_Gun said:

All of those poor suckers were taken in by the deceit of religion. They will never marry, or even have sex, because their religion controls them. The way to really tell a cult in my opinion is if it regulates the sex lives of it's members.

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well there's actually a Buddhist ritual called yab-yum..
and it's like a sacred sex position..
They say it's an important step to follow the path of enlightenment.

Look at the picture or art whatever..

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Memories said:
If you aren't attached then you won't have desire. It's just two ways of saying the same thing imo.

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HungryHipp07 said:
the goal is to be your true self and maybe even reach enlightenment

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Icelander said:

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Memories said:
If you aren't attached then you won't have desire. It's just two ways of saying the same thing imo.

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I think there is a subtle difference.  If I don't attach to that ice cream I'm not going to suffer, but I certainly did want it. But if I whine and complain about not being able to have it then I'm suffering. If I don't I've already moved on with my life without the suffering.

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Memories said:

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usulpsychonaut said:
I'm Buddhist. I don't read any Buddhist books, don't meditate, no fasting or discipline of any kind. I blaspheme the buddha often and my technique for getting happy or mystical is eating cannabis. This pretty much sums up my buddhism. Doing or saying stuff for spirituality is really just feeding shallow vanity.

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So basically, you just call yourself a Buddhist because you think it sounds cool.

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usulpsychonaut said:
Seems I'm more like the majority of Buddhists. I was in Thailand for a year as a kid, most Thais do not meditate, many pray and make offerings to deities and spirits.

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