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 newgui
मशरूम की दोस्त
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1,700
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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 Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours  [Re: Smoky McPot]
#16265386 - 05/22/12 12:12 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Well, what're ya gonna do, beat em up?
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Smoky McPot
Fool
Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 921
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265392 - 05/22/12 12:14 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
newgui said:
Well, what're ya gonna do, beat em up?
 What would that accomplish?
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[quote]
Free.Your.Mind said:
jesus btw had part alien DNA
how do you think was able to preform miracles?
i look at the bible from a scientific stand point [/quote] 
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NWlight
Just look
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265393 - 05/22/12 12:14 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
You and I work and we get things for free
Like what?
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Hilarious and inconsequential, the lot of it. Enjoy the ride. Music is medicine.
  
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 SlashOZ
:D
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: NWlight]
#16265395 - 05/22/12 12:15 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
NWlight said:
I'm all for a voluntarist government, but if you are going to opt out... then opt out.
Exactly. Its very annoying to see people my age living on the streets of a city while begging for food and then hear about how society and capitalism are evil and how the government is ruining everything etc. from these same bums. I've seen kids begging for money less than a block away from a store that was hiring. opt out means you come up with your own stuff. begging for money and food from the society that you are opting out of is such a 
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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newgui
मशरूम की दोस्त
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1,700
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: NWlight]
#16265433 - 05/22/12 12:27 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Well, we can understand this when comparing the things that a homeless person would not get otherwise. Meaning that although you are working for it, virtually, it is 'free' because it is an accessory or option that non-working people don't see. Compared to getting some meals, and maybe a shelter, a lot of options are unavailible for people on the street.
Paid time off for an injury, dental, and health insurance are a few examples. I think an 18 year old kid on the street would have no choice other than to beg for some help if he is injured and lacks insurance. In that situation, it is up to whomever if they decide to empathize.
Speaking of, would you guys empathize with an 18 year old kid if his arm was all fucked up and needed help? You may say that it was his choice to do what he did but would you still turn your shoulder?
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NWlight
Just look
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265438 - 05/22/12 12:28 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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This is another difficult piece of the puzzle. As a healthcare worker, I don't think I could turn away somebody in pain regardless of their laziness factor.
It's not human.
Quote:
Paid time off for an injury, dental, and health insurance are a few examples
these still aren't free though. Even the paid time off for injury is still "paid" for by the time you DO spend working. Benefits are essentially part of your pay.
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Hilarious and inconsequential, the lot of it. Enjoy the ride. Music is medicine.
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newgui
मशरूम की दोस्त
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1,700
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: NWlight]
#16265450 - 05/22/12 12:34 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Maybe so, but in a society of wating to one-up other people, having these things puts you way ahead of someone who is just bumming around. So much, I would say, that whatever change they get shouldn't even concern you.
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newgui
मशरूम की दोस्त
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1,700
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265456 - 05/22/12 12:35 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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What if you had another 'eye opening experience' with one of these 18 year old wannabe bums? Have you talked to many or do you just scold at em?
A book I truly love, Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac, is about Jack and some other guys hitchhiking around on hardly any money, hiking mountains, and so on and so forth. I see it as true freedom. I guess others see it as mooching. Maybe you should talk to these guys, you can get a lot of knowledge out on the road.
Edited by newgui (05/22/12 12:37 AM)
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NWlight
Just look
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265460 - 05/22/12 12:36 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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 You're regressing a little bit, I thought we were having a good discussion but you've already forgotten that I don't have a problem with people giving money to the homeless, that's their choice.
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Hilarious and inconsequential, the lot of it. Enjoy the ride. Music is medicine.
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NWlight
Just look
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265463 - 05/22/12 12:37 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
newgui said:
What if you had another 'eye opening experience' with one of these 18 year old wannabe bums? Have you talked to many or do you just scold at em?
haha most of them do bother me, yes.
And I'm familiar with the homeless, I've just never spent much time with a homeless person out of a clinic and truly gotten to know them and their friends. He even took me back to his camp that was interesting.
That was the eye-opening part
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Hilarious and inconsequential, the lot of it. Enjoy the ride. Music is medicine.
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SlashOZ
:D
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265466 - 05/22/12 12:38 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
newgui said:
Maybe so, but in a society of wating to one-up other people, having these things puts you way ahead of someone who is just bumming around. So much, I would say, that whatever change they get shouldn't even concern you.
the problem is that these people that choose to bum around could choose to contribute to society. the fact that they don't contribute anything but instead choose to drain society of its resources harms all of us, even if only slightly.
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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newgui
मशरूम की दोस्त
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1,700
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: SlashOZ]
#16265475 - 05/22/12 12:40 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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I got plenty of that time in when I was helping out with Food Not Bombs. I also agree that many are very insightful, honest, and true people. I don't know if you've ever looked into em but you always could. Quote:
SlashOZ said:
Quote:
newgui said:
Maybe so, but in a society of wating to one-up other people, having these things puts you way ahead of someone who is just bumming around. So much, I would say, that whatever change they get shouldn't even concern you.
the problem is that these people that choose to bum around could choose to contribute to society. the fact that they don't contribute anything but instead choose to drain society of its resources harms all of us, even if only slightly.
What impact is it that is so big?
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NWlight
Just look
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: SlashOZ] 1
#16265484 - 05/22/12 12:42 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
What impact is it that is so big?
He even said it might only be slight.
It's a matter of principle, the few surviving from the work of the many.
Food, money, resources don't just appear.
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Hilarious and inconsequential, the lot of it. Enjoy the ride. Music is medicine.
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newgui
मशरूम की दोस्त
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1,700
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: NWlight]
#16265495 - 05/22/12 12:44 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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It may be slight, but you guys certainly aren't acting like it 
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265509 - 05/22/12 12:46 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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It may not be slight.  Social services are bankrupting the country.
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NWlight
Just look
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 11,692
Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui] 1
#16265512 - 05/22/12 12:46 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Again, I don't care if it's a small amount or a big amount. It's the idea of somebody stealing from my labor so they can live for free.
Just is wrong, man.
I don't see how you can make the case that just because the impact is slight it's not significant.
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Hilarious and inconsequential, the lot of it. Enjoy the ride. Music is medicine.
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Smoky McPot
Fool
Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 921
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265538 - 05/22/12 12:53 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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It's like if somebody came and took a quarter from you every day...
You may not think it's a big deal at first "it's just a quarter I'll live"....
Then by the end of the year youre out almost a hundred dollars and for what?
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[quote]
Free.Your.Mind said:
jesus btw had part alien DNA
how do you think was able to preform miracles?
i look at the bible from a scientific stand point [/quote]
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newgui
मशरूम की दोस्त
Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1,700
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: NWlight]
#16265541 - 05/22/12 12:54 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
It may not be slight. Social services are bankrupting the country.
I'm pretty sure war is bankrupting the country
Quote:
NWlight said:
Again, I don't care if it's a small amount or a big amount. It's the idea of somebody stealing from my labor so they can live for free.
Just is wrong, man.
I don't see how you can make the case that just because the impact is slight it's not significant.
The only argument I was initially making was that the wanabee bums get lumped in with all homeless which just creates a big vaccum of intolerance. I know you work with homeless people and we both wish that there was somehow a fine line that we could establish who needs the help from who wants to take an easy route. Unfortunately it's too diluted. That, and how I think people have a right to be mad at social services in some instances, but not entirely. I've met too many people who think it should be disbanded and their only references are people who mooch.
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SlashOZ
:D
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265553 - 05/22/12 12:57 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
newgui said:
It may be slight, but you guys certainly aren't acting like it
its not really a big deal because this discussion is not much more than a philosophical impasse.
your philosophy doesn't judge others based on the maxim of their actions. I'm looking at it from a more kantian pov in which i'm working of the categorical imperative and I think, not sure here, that NWlight is coming from a similar pov.
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: I just hung out with a homeless man for 12+ hours [Re: newgui]
#16265556 - 05/22/12 12:58 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
newgui said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
It may not be slight. Social services are bankrupting the country.
I'm pretty sure war is bankrupting the country
Nah, social services dwarf war spending big time. War spending is big and it sure doesnt help, but social services are huge. Remember, they exist at all levels of govt. Counting social security and local takes defense is somewhere around 10-15% of my tax burden. Social services are over half, iirc.
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