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 johnm214
 
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,582
Loc: Americas
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 What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? 
#16136373 - 04/25/12 02:36 AM (1 year, 29 days ago) |
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I hear people, generally new-agey types, make these kinds of claims all the time: "all religions are correct at their core" or "all religions lead to the same place".
Well, is that true?
It seems to me this is rather obviously false- the varied religions generally contradict themselves quite explicitly, and most of the gods and prophets seem to be quite aware of the other gods/prophets and quite clearly set apart from them.
Is there any way to square these apparently contradictory themes without making up facts or ignoring them? How?
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 circastes
Being too serious
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16136579 - 04/25/12 03:46 AM (1 year, 29 days ago) |
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Read The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.
Basically, all religions are trying to point to your true Self, that you are the All, and that the Kingdom of Heaven is within your mind.
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
she said there's good men
that there's God in everyone
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: circastes]
#16136640 - 04/25/12 04:16 AM (1 year, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said:
Read The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.
Basically, all religions are trying to point to your true Self, that you are the All, and that the Kingdom of Heaven is within your mind.
Sure, if you interpret them a certain way.
Traditional interpretations of these religions are typically hostile to what you describe.
It's a nice interpretation though, I like it better than most. 
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zannennagara
Found in Space
Registered: 09/26/08
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214] 1
#16136667 - 04/25/12 04:28 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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They're all massive codification projects of human experience into a variety of differing figures, principles and guidelines that attempt to explain what's going on. The fact that they contradict, and yet all retain some greater sense of applicability to similar situations, heightens the sense that none obviously contains the whole "truth" - whatever that is - but that each arises from the whole "truth" - whatever that is.
You walk into a Gothic cathedral and a Buddhist temple, and obviously the architecture is very different, but at the same time there appears to be a kind of universality in the effort and reverence embodied in the creation and cultural preservation of each. Same thing with Bach and Indian classical music, or the Pieta and the Daibutsu. Some primordial passion seems evoked by distinct religions toward differing forms but with an equally powerful resonance for aesthetic appreciation that speaks to an underlying commonality.
However, just the same, all religions lead away from the whole "truth" - whatever that is - in that they are abstract codifications that differentiate themselves from other views and can distract from what's going on. I share your frustration and am not sure that religions can really "drive at" the truth as much as drive away from it with various entertaining vapor trails and engine roars that are all seen and heard by the same starting-line spectators. The driving goes in circles - nowhere - so why are we all rooting for favorites, camping out in our mobile homes and having tailgate parties all the time?
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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: zannennagara]
#16136701 - 04/25/12 04:39 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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I think my favorite expression of commonality is in non-representative art - arabesques, celtic crosses, and the like. This might be my acidheadedness speaking, but the trippy shit is where all the major religions betray their parochial differences and expose the common thread of being high as shit on something - soma, ayahuasca, kykeon, sacramental wine, meditation, life, whatever you got.
  
So on.
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Symbols
§✪λⓡɕＨⒶŠƎƦ
Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 688
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: BlindSophist]
#16136735 - 04/25/12 05:06 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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I would say the codification of the human experience in religious imagery is a largely an implicit and unintentional process. The scriptures, the art, the mythology, may reference the commonality of the human unconscious, but the expressed beliefs of the individual religions hardly ever acknowledge this.
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Rail_Gun
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16136739 - 04/25/12 05:11 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
I hear people, generally new-agey types, make these kinds of claims all the time: "all religions are correct at their core" or "all religions lead to the same place".
Well, is that true?
Yes, because if someone believes it then it's true for them. And no, because if someone doesn't believe it then it's not true for them.
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Icelander
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: circastes]
#16136918 - 04/25/12 07:28 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said:
Read The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.
Basically, all religions are trying to point to your true Self, that you are the All, and that the Kingdom of Heaven is within your mind.
All religions imo serve the function of an immortality project to relieve DA. This so called true self is that immortality that man craves to reduce the terror of his animal impermanence and relative unimportance.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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circastes
Being too serious
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16137139 - 04/25/12 09:51 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Good book though 
Read it young man
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
she said there's good men
that there's God in everyone
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LunarEclipse
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16137198 - 04/25/12 10:16 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
circastes said:
Read The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.
Basically, all religions are trying to point to your true Self, that you are the All, and that the Kingdom of Heaven is within your mind.
All religions imo serve the function of an immortality project to relieve DA. This so called true self is that immortality that man craves to reduce the terror of his animal impermanence and relative unimportance.
Also sometimes there is cool music in church. Like once in a blue moon. Man that music is dull. Hymn 43.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Icelander
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16137301 - 04/25/12 11:00 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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I remember walking down the street by a big modern church in downtown Grand Rapids, Mich. in the early 70s on a weekday afternoon and I was stunned to hear the organist on a huge pipe organ playing a piece from ELP. I walked in and sat and listened to the whole thing perfectly played. I've never forgotten that private concert.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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LongStrangeTrip
Deadhead
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Posts: 4,482
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: circastes]
#16138428 - 04/25/12 05:32 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said:
Read The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.
Basically, all religions are trying to point to your true Self, that you are the All, and that the Kingdom of Heaven is within your mind.
whoawhoa, that is a bit of a leap to say that "all" religions are saying that. What you are pointing out is a traceable development that occurred throughout the development of western religious dogma. Particularly Catholicism (Huxley was a Catholic, correct? Raised as one at least. I am not sure correct me if I am wrong).
The big player in that category is MOST CERTAINLY Saint Augustine of Hippo. He lived during the third and fourth century's CE. He also lead to the development within Catholicism to "turn inward" to god; but that was not always the case. It was always the exact opposite, during the years when humans were writing the bible + new testament, ectect. He took the writings of Plotinus, a Neo-platonist, and made them acceptable to Catholicism. He took what was looked at, at the time, as pagan doctrine, derived from Plato (obviously), and somewhat "convinced" Catholic figures that it was fully applicable to Catholic doctrine. Its quite amazing, actually. "The Inward Turn"; that was his big thing.
Of course, interpretations of doctrine have little to do with the practice and real world consequences these large religious institutions have had on societies on the whole  they are important none the less.
btw, you are not "wrong" about anything, I just thought that such an incredibly important point was worth pointing out, in this discussion. Huxley certainly had a "bias"; having been raised as a Catholic, he took his experiences and extrapolated them through his own perception of god / the universe. That does not mean he was an expert of religion at all, though, in general.
 
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Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
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LongStrangeTrip
Deadhead
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
#16138451 - 04/25/12 05:37 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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BTW, Neo-Platonism is looked at as being a cross between Platonism and Oriental Mysticism. That seems to make everything that has already been said in the thread....even more interesting 
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Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
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White Beard
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16138780 - 04/25/12 06:58 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
I hear people, generally new-agey types, make these kinds of claims all the time: "all religions are correct at their core" or "all religions lead to the same place".
Well, is that true?
It seems to me this is rather obviously false- the varied religions generally contradict themselves quite explicitly, and most of the gods and prophets seem to be quite aware of the other gods/prophets and quite clearly set apart from them.
Is there any way to square these apparently contradictory themes without making up facts or ignoring them? How?
I'm not sure they all say it, but quite a few of em all say "surrender."
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xFrockx
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16138788 - 04/25/12 07:02 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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THE REAL WORLD
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dustinthewind13
Fool
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16138793 - 04/25/12 07:03 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
I hear people, generally new-agey types, make these kinds of claims all the time: "all religions are correct at their core" or "all religions lead to the same place".
Well, is that true?
Yes! 
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"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
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White Beard
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: xFrockx]
#16138801 - 04/25/12 07:04 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Captain_Spaulding
HST
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: xFrockx]
#16138815 - 04/25/12 07:08 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Religion is a man made idea. The practice of having faith and religion are two very different ideologies. Just like everything else in the world man took a good thing and turned it into a profit geared machine. Why should you have to donate 10% of your personal earning to a church that is more focused on building giant cathedrals instead of feeding the hungry.
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When in Rome play a fidle
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Captain_Spaulding] 1
#16138837 - 04/25/12 07:15 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Religion is a man made idea.
Please name a single idea that is not man-made.
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dustinthewind13
Fool
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16138842 - 04/25/12 07:18 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Nature?
edit. nevermind... it's not nature... 
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"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
Edited by dustinthewind13 (04/25/12 07:19 PM)
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Captain_Spaulding
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16138843 - 04/25/12 07:19 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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By recognizing its man made is simply saying how its going to have issues and won't ever be agreed upon by all of man no matter what u try or do
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When in Rome play a fidle
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millzy
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Captain_Spaulding]
#16138892 - 04/25/12 07:33 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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all religions are making a statement about the human condition. in this sense they share some common ground. as far as how god is defined there are distinct families of ideas and sub-families of those ideas. in this sense they don't share any common ground whatsoever.
this book on this particular subject was recommended to me by my comparative religion professor. it's on my list.
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It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.- Philip K. Dick
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Captain_Spaulding]
#16138918 - 04/25/12 07:43 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Captain_Spaulding said:
By recognizing its man made is simply saying how its going to have issues and won't ever be agreed upon by all of man no matter what u try or do
Thanks for not answering a simple & direct question. You will do well here.
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Captain_Spaulding
HST
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16139007 - 04/25/12 08:09 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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The art of speaking like a polititQuote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Captain_Spaulding said:
By recognizing its man made is simply saying how its going to have issues and won't ever be agreed upon by all of man no matter what u try or do
Thanks for not answering a simple & direct question. You will do well here.
The art of speaking like a politicians 
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When in Rome play a fidle
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millzy
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Captain_Spaulding]
#16139039 - 04/25/12 08:17 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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some answers aren't simple yes's or no's. pretty basic stuff for a "philosophy" forum. 
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It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.- Philip K. Dick
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dustinthewind13
Fool
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: millzy]
#16139247 - 04/25/12 09:05 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said:
some answers aren't maybe aren't simple yes's or no's. pretty basic stuff for a "philosophy" forum.
Symbols signature made me do it! 
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"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16139273 - 04/25/12 09:12 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Religion is a man made idea.
Please name a single idea that is not man-made.
Cetaceans have names among their peers - names are definitely an idea. So are self-concept and theory of mind, both of which are also exhibited by that particular order of non-humans.
Checkmate! 
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: BlindSophist]
#16139320 - 04/25/12 09:25 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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True, but revealing that a man-made idea is man-made is redonkulous.
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millzy
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16139378 - 04/25/12 09:41 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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i'm not sure i follow along with the "man-made idea". if religion is describing the human condition, its language and models are certainly derived from our abstractions. the things religion describes are, in some cases self evident and in other cases discovered through "divine revelation", rational inquiry or whathaveyou depending on which tradition is being discussed. i think the main point of debate is whether or not the latter (i.e. god) is part of reality.
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It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.- Philip K. Dick
Edited by millzy (04/25/12 10:00 PM)
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16139703 - 04/25/12 10:57 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
True, but revealing that a man-made idea is man-made is redonkulous.
Fair enough... I don't know of any other species that practices religion. I'm still waiting for somebody to translate the clicks of dolphins. They do a lot of things that are oddly reminiscent of basic human behavior including tool-making so I wouldn't be surprised if they are capable of explicit self-delusion. For all we know, every other pod in the ocean calls itself "the lost pod of the Yangtze river."
Ah, I went from religion to my admiration of dolphins, and then to making myself sad... 
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: BlindSophist] 1
#16139728 - 04/25/12 11:02 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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If you start seeing dolphins rearranging shells or all gathering in one spot to face a specific dolphin making clicks while the rest listen, let me know.
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Samurai Drifter
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16139817 - 04/25/12 11:21 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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If there is one common theme uniting all religions, it is that material possessions and desires will not bring happiness. Does that seem true to you?
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The obstacle is the path.
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16139848 - 04/25/12 11:26 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
If you start seeing dolphins rearranging shells or all gathering in one spot to face a specific dolphin making clicks while the rest listen, let me know.
Affirmative! Once I sort out the minor detail of being reincarnated as a Web-surfing dolphin, I will keep you posted.
In the meantime, this might help to convince you that dolphins also have a taste for self-interested symbolic displays:
Quote:
Of the groups of dolphins in the Amazon that were carrying objects such as weeds, most contained adult females. Those carrying the object were most often adult males and these males were 40 times more aggressive to other males than non-carrying dolphins, New Scientist reports.
I have no idea why this is so, but I'm sure dolphins would find church attendance baffling as well.
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jw2234
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16140117 - 04/26/12 12:34 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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First question to OP: Does it matter? Does unifying all religion in concept and in theory change in any way the way you believe and perceive the world to be? Does it change how you act and live in these confusing times? I know you wish to find some universal meaning in the myths and legend of religion, and I have felt and do feel it is quite an interesting thing to find. It is most definitely an interest of mine. And writing this now I'm actually starting to believe that it does in fact matter, finding the bridge between different seemingly disparate religions stemming from different areas of the globe. Here are my thoughts.
I believe that the sole thing all religions have in common is some reference to the idea of creation, that there is one life force, key word, ONE, that awakens and vivifies forms of disparity and difference, aka the one gives birth in some profound yet profoundly simple way to the TWO. I think we can find reference to this in most if not all creation myths across the globe. And I think as well it could be said with a lot of truth backing it up that many religions believe this ONE life force is still present today, eternally represented in each separate form we so choose to experience and perceive.
While I don't have too much evidence to state as I have most definitely not done a significant amount of research on my own I do believe that most of the myths indigenous cultures across the planet believe in that define their "religious" views on life have profound similarities to each other, similarities that point to a greater connectivity in the human subconscious mind-that brings up all these stories and motifs from people from different areas of the world; and/or a more psychic union we have with each other, thus the stories that were brought out by so many ancient and archaic cultures had so much weight to them they were transferred over the borders of space and time to other channels debating the same questions-why are we here, what happens after death, how did the planet gaia get made, so on and so forth; and/or the mind works in a way to bring up those similar motifs and ideas that create the creation myths and stories we can see that form religions. There are a lot of possibilities in my mind, but the fact remains that there are multitudes of similarities between the ideas, motifs, plots, and overall framework of the many different creation stories that can be read from across the world.
Back to my original question. Does it matter to bring a united viewpoint to all this? YES. It definitely does if this is your work on this planet. We need so much the united view that says that the stories first are guidelines to life that were made to explain the happenings of physics and of space and time that we couldn't understand by pure archaic reasoning, that says that the stories are utterly similar to each other, TOO similar, to not have some greater connective force active in the human mind (psychic connection with eachother, deeper well that is the subconscious mind, maybe ancient aliens even!) WHO KNOWS! We can't say for sure yet for we simply don't have the tools to see what really happened. I think we soon will though, were remembering so much each and every day we live.
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there is nothing to fear with this chemical besides astonishing realization that everything IS indeed 1 entity
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4896744
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Samurai Drifter]
#16141071 - 04/26/12 06:52 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
If there is one common theme uniting all religions, it is that material possessions and desires will not bring happiness. Does that seem true to you?
I think they can bring happiness, but the question is if it is lasting. I think 'material' gains are pretty quickly assimilated to, while successfully making yourself feel meaningful will last longer.
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Live your Life! 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,881
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: 4896744]
#16141421 - 04/26/12 09:39 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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 I find that gourmet pastry brings momentary happiness.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Captain_Spaulding
HST
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16141777 - 04/26/12 11:54 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
True, but revealing that a man-made idea is man-made is redonkulous.
Ok using the word idea instead of creation was wrong. But still the point I was trying to make is still relevant. Religion and faith are two seperate things u can have faith in a higher power without conforming to a creation of fellow man
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When in Rome play a fidle
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,881
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Captain_Spaulding]
#16142267 - 04/26/12 02:12 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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I would think "faith = religion" no matter what.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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The Influence
I make it do what it do
Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 4,387
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16142326 - 04/26/12 02:29 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I would think "faith = religion" no matter what.
Not really, you can have faith in a lot of things that do not constitute religion i.e. a partners loyalty, that voters will not re-elect obama etc
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Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,881
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: The Influence]
#16142348 - 04/26/12 02:38 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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all religion to me.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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teknix
ÐøøÐ
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 7,857
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16142441 - 04/26/12 03:01 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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At the core is supposed to be the mutual respect and love for life. (imo)
I think it is basically Humanism, and is not anything new. Spirituality without the need of belief in a single religion.
The mutual teachings are often so bogged down in edited texts vying for power, it is not always obvious that "Love" is the phenomenal aspect of being human that connects us all. Many times "love" is left to religion, but I think it will be objectified as another sense in the future.
For to find love, does not require belief, although belief is used to find love in many cases. Using belief to find our primal nature is used because of tradition that has been perpetuated for so long. How these religions have survived for so long (imo), is due to the divisions created in the vying for power that keeps most spirituality divided into belief systems.
Spirituality is not dependent upon religion at all, Einstein for instance was spiritual yet not religious. (imo)
Quote:
johnm214 said:
I hear people, generally new-agey types, make these kinds of claims all the time: "all religions are correct at their core" or "all religions lead to the same place".
I'm glad that I'm not the only one to have seen it. Who are some of the famous people to have made such claims?
Quote:
johnm214 said:
Is there any way to square these apparently contradictory themes without making up facts or ignoring them? How?
The vying for power by division within the elaborations of texts seem blatantly obvious too me. How to square it away is omit the conflicting and contradictory elaborations. I think the writing were intended originally to be in wave form, and were later elaborated into particles.
Edited by teknix (04/26/12 03:27 PM)
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xFrockx
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#16142956 - 04/26/12 05:25 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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No ideas are man made any more than any heart is man made.
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LongStrangeTrip
Deadhead
Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 4,482
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: xFrockx]
#16142967 - 04/26/12 05:27 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said:
No ideas are man made any more than any heart is man made.
Frock...... that is straight up poetic 
If an idea is "created" in the mind of a man (or woman), than would the creation not be attributed to the mind it came from? Or is there some sort of universality that we are discussing here?
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Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
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teknix
ÐøøÐ
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
#16143001 - 04/26/12 05:34 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Intuitive designation to find an answer in uniformity, leads one to believe there is an answer.
Even if thoughts are not created, it is a choice to continue pondering it.
Thoughts are but points along a path, each one can lead in many directions. The direction, if chosen, is chosen. Meaning that even in deciding not to choose there is a choosing.
It might not be an evident choice, but that it is nonetheless. (You choose to entertain the idea, consciously or subconsciously)
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xFrockx
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
#16143053 - 04/26/12 05:52 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Is creation another idea or an actual thing?
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Captain_Spaulding
HST
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: teknix]
#16143072 - 04/26/12 05:57 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Without human brain power and free will is an idea even possible or does it just become nature?
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When in Rome play a fidle
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16143277 - 04/26/12 06:45 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Influence said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I would think "faith = religion" no matter what.
Not really, you can have faith in a lot of things that do not constitute religion i.e. a partners loyalty, that voters will not re-elect obama etc
Quote:
Icelander said:
all religion to me.
I agree. Certainly not "traditional" or "organized" religion but it's the same basic idea... feelings and ideas into which we invest ourselves deeply, sometimes totally. Not everyone agrees with me but IMO it's one of the finer things in life.
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The Influence
I make it do what it do
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: BlindSophist]
#16143525 - 04/26/12 07:45 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
The Influence said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I would think "faith = religion" no matter what.
Not really, you can have faith in a lot of things that do not constitute religion i.e. a partners loyalty, that voters will not re-elect obama etc
Quote:
Icelander said:
all religion to me.
I agree. Certainly not "traditional" or "organized" religion but it's the same basic idea... feelings and ideas into which we invest ourselves deeply, sometimes totally. Not everyone agrees with me but IMO it's one of the finer things in life.
Well according to one of the definitions in the dictionary you and Icelander could both be considered correct. But I guess I think of religion in the context of someone believing in a code or way of life laid out for them by a higher/supernatural power, that has a reward system of some sorts i.e. heaven & hell
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Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced
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circastes
Being too serious
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
#16143705 - 04/26/12 08:22 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:
circastes said:
Read The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.
Basically, all religions are trying to point to your true Self, that you are the All, and that the Kingdom of Heaven is within your mind.
whoawhoa, that is a bit of a leap to say that "all" religions are saying that. What you are pointing out is a traceable development that occurred throughout the development of western religious dogma. Particularly Catholicism (Huxley was a Catholic, correct? Raised as one at least. I am not sure correct me if I am wrong).
The big player in that category is MOST CERTAINLY Saint Augustine of Hippo. He lived during the third and fourth century's CE. He also lead to the development within Catholicism to "turn inward" to god; but that was not always the case. It was always the exact opposite, during the years when humans were writing the bible + new testament, ectect. He took the writings of Plotinus, a Neo-platonist, and made them acceptable to Catholicism. He took what was looked at, at the time, as pagan doctrine, derived from Plato (obviously), and somewhat "convinced" Catholic figures that it was fully applicable to Catholic doctrine. Its quite amazing, actually. "The Inward Turn"; that was his big thing.
Of course, interpretations of doctrine have little to do with the practice and real world consequences these large religious institutions have had on societies on the whole they are important none the less.
btw, you are not "wrong" about anything, I just thought that such an incredibly important point was worth pointing out, in this discussion. Huxley certainly had a "bias"; having been raised as a Catholic, he took his experiences and extrapolated them through his own perception of god / the universe. That does not mean he was an expert of religion at all, though, in general.
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
she said there's good men
that there's God in everyone
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: zannennagara]
#16143744 - 04/26/12 08:29 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
jw2234 said:
First question to OP: Does it matter? Does unifying all religion in concept and in theory change in any way the way you believe and perceive the world to be? Does it change how you act and live in these confusing times? I know you wish to find some universal meaning in the myths and legend of religion, and I have felt and do feel it is quite an interesting thing to find.
Yes it does matter, no I'm not tring to find some universal meaning in the myths and legends- while the later would be great, I have no hope any of these people have either the sources of information they claim nor particularly coherent ideas.
I regard the proposition questioned in the OP with doubt, yet here it often stated as fact. I suspect this, like many appologetic 'lets all get along' stuff is disingenuous and dishonest. I think its clear we must abandon illusion and wishful thinking if we're to have any hope of identifying what we have, want, and how to traverse the two.
I think these appologists for religious traditions are no better than the 'extremists' they claim to dislike. They obscure the truth just as willingly and try to appeal to our desires for social cohesion in doing so, making them just another enemy of reality and improvement.
Quote:
Captain_Spaulding said:
Religion is a man made idea. The practice of having faith and religion are two very different ideologies. Just like everything else in the world man took a good thing and turned it into a profit geared machine.
It sounds like your suggesting there's some contradiction between good and profit- is this the case? Sounds dubious.
Quote:
zannennagara said:
They're all massive codification projects of human experience into a variety of differing figures, principles and guidelines that attempt to explain what's going on.
Yes, they have many shared qualities, so what?
So far nobody seems able to identify this truth or destination all religions lead to and make even a cursory case that its true. It seems prettly likely this notion is just nonsense.
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16143849 - 04/26/12 08:49 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
So far nobody seems able to identify this truth or destination all religions lead to and make even a cursory case that its true. It seems prettly likely this notion is just nonsense.
I already stated it's all about getting high and chillin' with some trippy art but you didn't even dignify it with a response! I GIVE YOU GOLD! 
Edited by BlindSophist (04/26/12 09:02 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,881
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16143985 - 04/26/12 09:19 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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So far nobody seems able to identify this truth or destination all religions lead to and make even a cursory case that its true. It seems prettly likely this notion is just nonsense.
This is because Icelander has not spoken. All religions lead to the destination of being a shield against death/impermanence anxieties. / They all tell us the story that we are more than just a biological animal that will die and be dust and no more.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16143995 - 04/26/12 09:20 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
So far nobody seems able to identify this truth or destination all religions lead to and make even a cursory case that its true. It seems prettly likely this notion is just nonsense.
This is because Icelander has not spoken. All religions lead to the destination of being a shield for death/impermanence anxieties. /
Case closed!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,881
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: BlindSophist]
#16144008 - 04/26/12 09:22 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: BlindSophist]
#16144202 - 04/26/12 09:52 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
So far nobody seems able to identify this truth or destination all religions lead to and make even a cursory case that its true. It seems prettly likely this notion is just nonsense.
This is because Icelander has not spoken. All religions lead to the destination of being a shield against death/impermanence anxieties. / They all tell us the story that we are more than just a biological animal that will die and be dust and no more.
Yes, I agree, but that doesn't strike me as something the Deepak Chopra, hippy spiritualists, and appologists for nasty cults mean when they say they're all vallid, all going to the same place. The muslim Diploid was arguing with recently (who decided somehow the 'kill everyone' verses of the quran don't count), even had the gall to say that- kinda makes me wonder what the point of Mohammad even was if the previous revisions were fine.
Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
johnm214 said:
So far nobody seems able to identify this truth or destination all religions lead to and make even a cursory case that its true. It seems prettly likely this notion is just nonsense.
I already stated it's all about getting high and chillin' with some trippy art but you didn't even dignify it with a response! I GIVE YOU GOLD!
Yes, but I didn't see a justification for that claim.
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dustinthewind13
Fool
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Posts: 4,310
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16144211 - 04/26/12 09:53 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
So far nobody seems able to identify this truth or destination all religions lead to and make even a cursory case that its true. It seems prettly likely this notion is just nonsense.
This is because Icelander has not spoken. All religions lead to the destination of being a shield against death/impermanence anxieties. / They all tell us the story that we are more than just a biological animal that will die and be dust and no more.
I'm already dust! 
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"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 79,881
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16144276 - 04/26/12 10:03 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Yes, I agree, but that doesn't strike me as something the Deepak Chopra, hippy spiritualists, and appologists for nasty cults mean when they say they're all vallid, all going to the same place.
Well, duh. If they were aware of their real reasons their faith based fantasies wouldn't work. Not to say they aren't aware and just using it to fleece the sheeples.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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DisoRDeR
motional
Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 451
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16145232 - 04/27/12 01:50 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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I'm not well versed in most of the religions, so this is probably wrong, but...
As you said, most of the people making such claims are the new agers/mystics/etc who do not accept the particular tenets of the religions as true. Acknowledging this, we cannot work from the position that all the religions are compatible from an explicitly literal interpretation. They are obviously not. Those making such claims must then agree that almost all religions are inherently flawed, and the texts they hold up as perfect are certainly not so. This allows for the picking and choosing of verses which exemplify moments of insight from otherwise flawed but still pretty awesome prophets.
The notions which seem most often cherry-picked are those which urge compassion, humility, awareness, acceptance, and other such loveliness.
As to your question... what do they point to? A path of integration through separation, ignorance and suffering back to unification, peace and awesome... or something.
The people who grasp to particular traditions while dismissing others are similarly accepted as limited and somewhat ignorant. The idea is that a religious tradition is to be climbed through and out of again, free of the need for its structure and limitations.
I believe the absurdity of much of what passes for religious practice is acknowledged by those holding this position, but the gamble is that playing nice with people's very important nonsense may be the path of least resistance to cultivating the cherry-picked qualities.
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All human errors are impatience, the premature breaking off of what is methodical, an apparent fencing in of the apparent thing. - Franz Kafka
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The Influence
I make it do what it do
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Loc: Not Wisconsin
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Icelander]
#16145539 - 04/27/12 03:33 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
circastes said:
Read The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.
Basically, all religions are trying to point to your true Self, that you are the All, and that the Kingdom of Heaven is within your mind.
All religions imo serve the function of an immortality project to relieve DA. This so called true self is that immortality that man craves to reduce the terror of his animal impermanence and relative unimportance.
I don't know if anyone has pointed it out yet, but as I was thinking about this thread and this very common reply from you I realized that this may be the case for some but religions also serve as a way to control a group of people. Another form of government with not the threat of a death with nothing afterwords, but of a death where you will be punished forever if you do not follow the law of the religion. It's late and I'm tired so I may be off base but this just came to me.
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Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced
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zannennagara
Found in Space
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 433
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16145621 - 04/27/12 04:14 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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It's not so trivial that they share many qualities - that's why I wrote the whole post instead of the one line.
If you're strictly concerned with the religious codes as objects in and of themselves, clearly the objects are distinct enough to merit the different titles (Christianity, Buddhism, etc.) Obviously you can't literally equate their contradictions.
With a little self-engagement, though, the different codes, morals and metaphors all seem to apply to personal perspectives and experiences even though there are those literal contradictions, and recognizing this is in a sense viewing the shared truth. You act as a kind of nexus for these different inputs you come in contact with - they each ring of truth in their connection to what you already know. Perhaps "you" - the receiver - are the truth all religions are driving at. And lest this seem solipsistic, you then have to wonder what "you" is/are.
And if you think this truth-driving is bullshit for religion, is there any truth or destination that anything is leading to? Is death anxiety a satisfying answer, and if so what truth is that driving at, or does it stop there, and if so, why?
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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.
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accountant
Stranger
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Posts: 1,016
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: johnm214]
#16145624 - 04/27/12 04:15 AM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Like scientific theories first proposed, there are multiple schools of thoughts. However, only one of the proposed theories is actually correct.
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millzy
Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 6,717
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: Samurai Drifter]
#16146304 - 04/27/12 11:45 AM (1 year, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
If there is one common theme uniting all religions, it is that material possessions and desires will not bring happiness. Does that seem true to you?
no. in fact world-renunciation i.e. monasticism has been a key criticism of orthodoxy by the protestant movement, prefigured by the rise of humanism during the renaissance. even in traditions that respect monasticism, it's generally recognized that it's not practical for everyone to be a monk. you also have extreme contemporary shifts that go far away from that type of asceticism such as the "prosperity gospel", which encourages evangelicals to incur wealth. this is by no means common ground that is shared by all religious schools of thought.
i would say that lessons that teach people how to live better in the world is what is most common among all religions. obviously, that mileage varies per tradition and individual.
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It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.- Philip K. Dick
Edited by millzy (04/27/12 11:46 AM)
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BlindSophist
you can call me BS
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 28,279
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What is the "truth" all religions are driving at? What is the destination they all lead to? [Re: millzy]
#16149376 - 04/28/12 01:04 AM (1 year, 26 days ago) |
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Nice post. I really agree. Kudos also on using the word "incur" to describe the accumulation of wealth, I actually really like that idea. 
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