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 MarkostheGnostic
Elder
 
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 hour, 26 seconds
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 Re: What do you guys think happens after death?  [Re: thefloodbehind]
#15931130 - 03/10/12 11:17 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
thefloodbehind said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
It depends.
Markos, do go on. I'd enjoy reading your thoughts on this.
I don't think I have time for a compendious dissertation on the subject. Besides, I saw today what happens to the remains of a person who is cremated - my best friend's sister, whom I knew since her birth. 
The metaphysical possibilities are extensive, with some form of transmigration or some form of resurrection (to Eternal Life or perdition) being the two most common, and represented symbolically by the teachings of Buddha and those of Christ, respectively. There is the question of interpretation in both because Buddhist rebirth happens in each 'mind-moment,' of which each second contains millions, and does not mean that we are permanent entities that change bodies/personalities/lives. Even the atheist or nihilist is correct in affirming that nothing happens, because the atheist or nihilist, like the existentialist Sartre, only acknowledges the embodied egoic-mind, and that perishes at death.
The nihilist or atheist existentialist, has no experience of a Transcendental Ego (as in Husserl), and so, like Sartre, denies its existence. These types of people tend to utterly confuse personality with Consciousness, and Pure Consciousness (to an Ontologist) precedes and gives rise to an individual identity. Immortality is thus mistakenly identified as being the same as Eternal Life. Only THAT which is Eternal in our make up experiences Eternal Life, because THAT which experiences Eternal Life, is Eternal Life itself! Eternal Life = Eternal Consciousness. It is tautological, I realize. The Nature of Reality is Eternality and Self-Identity as Eternal and Infinite Awareness. The Realization within a human being dissolves away your question, because your question assumes the identity of separate psychophysical beinghood. Self-Realization is realization of one's Most Real Identity, and that realization shows the error of the assumption under which such questions are formulated.
Resurrection, or passing over (Passover), suggests that death is a death of one's ordinary identity as the individual psychophysical 'me' who was conceived, born, grown and died. Death of the earthly identity results in a 'rending of the veil' of illusion so that we once again, or rather, 'God' once again has a clear realization of 'I AM' at the death of each human being. Now sometimes, we are granted such a realization while yet alive ("Yet from my flesh I shall see God" - Job 19:26). This is mysticism. Like Jesus, we experience our true nature as the ineffable "I AM.' Resurrection bodies and transmigration are attempts of intellectual expression in terms of form, when the Reality is formless. Formlessness is often expressed as 'Light' to differentiate the mind's need to analyze 'no thing' from 'nothing.' Light is a subtle form. Reality is ineffable and inexpressable by form. Unfortunately, too many people make idols out of Light, Golden Roads, Rainbow Bridges, Pearly Gates, Valhalla, Stovikor, etc.
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (03/10/12 11:35 PM)
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circastes
Being too serious
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 5,632
Loc: 
Last seen: 13 hours, 1 minute
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^this
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
she said there's good men
that there's God in everyone
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,343
Loc: Straight Outta Compton 
Last seen: 15 hours, 25 minutes
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
thefloodbehind said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
It depends.
Markos, do go on. I'd enjoy reading your thoughts on this.
I don't think I have time for a compendious dissertation on the subject. Besides, I saw today what happens to the remains of a person who is cremated - my best friend's sister, whom I knew since her birth.
The metaphysical possibilities are extensive, with some form of transmigration or some form of resurrection (to Eternal Life or perdition) being the two most common, and represented symbolically by the teachings of Buddha and those of Christ, respectively. There is the question of interpretation in both because Buddhist rebirth happens in each 'mind-moment,' of which each second contains millions, and does not mean that we are permanent entities that change bodies/personalities/lives. Even the atheist or nihilist is correct in affirming that nothing happens, because the atheist or nihilist, like the existentialist Sartre, only acknowledges the embodied egoic-mind, and that perishes at death.
The nihilist or atheist existentialist, has no experience of a Transcendental Ego (as in Husserl), and so, like Sartre, denies its existence. These types of people tend to utterly confuse personality with Consciousness, and Pure Consciousness (to an Ontologist) precedes and gives rise to an individual identity. Immortality is thus mistakenly identified as being the same as Eternal Life. Only THAT which is Eternal in our make up experiences Eternal Life, because THAT which experiences Eternal Life, is Eternal Life itself! Eternal Life = Eternal Consciousness. It is tautological, I realize. The Nature of Reality is Eternality and Self-Identity as Eternal and Infinite Awareness. The Realization within a human being dissolves away your question, because your question assumes the identity of separate psychophysical beinghood. Self-Realization is realization of one's Most Real Identity, and that realization shows the error of the assumption under which such questions are formulated.
Resurrection, or passing over (Passover), suggests that death is a death of one's ordinary identity as the individual psychophysical 'me' who was conceived, born, grown and died. Death of the earthly identity results in a 'rending of the veil' of illusion so that we once again, or rather, 'God' once again has a clear realization of 'I AM' at the death of each human being. Now sometimes, we are granted such a realization while yet alive ("Yet from my flesh I shall see God" - Job 19:26). This is mysticism. Like Jesus, we experience our true nature as the ineffable "I AM.' Resurrection bodies and transmigration are attempts of intellectual expression in terms of form, when the Reality is formless. Formlessness is often expressed as 'Light' to differentiate the mind's need to analyze 'no thing' from 'nothing.' Light is a subtle form. Reality is ineffable and inexpressable by form. Unfortunately, too many people make idols out of Light, Golden Roads, Rainbow Bridges, Pearly Gates, Valhalla, Stovikor, etc.
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Donate bitcoins to: 1EiXM1ZSbNbksnHzTPJE2MaMNF8kKi9SQs
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,806
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
thefloodbehind said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
It depends.
Markos, do go on. I'd enjoy reading your thoughts on this.
I don't think I have time for a compendious dissertation on the subject. Besides, I saw today what happens to the remains of a person who is cremated - my best friend's sister, whom I knew since her birth.
The metaphysical possibilities are extensive, with some form of transmigration or some form of resurrection (to Eternal Life or perdition) being the two most common, and represented symbolically by the teachings of Buddha and those of Christ, respectively. There is the question of interpretation in both because Buddhist rebirth happens in each 'mind-moment,' of which each second contains millions, and does not mean that we are permanent entities that change bodies/personalities/lives. Even the atheist or nihilist is correct in affirming that nothing happens, because the atheist or nihilist, like the existentialist Sartre, only acknowledges the embodied egoic-mind, and that perishes at death.
The nihilist or atheist existentialist, has no experience of a Transcendental Ego (as in Husserl), and so, like Sartre, denies its existence. These types of people tend to utterly confuse personality with Consciousness, and Pure Consciousness (to an Ontologist) precedes and gives rise to an individual identity. Immortality is thus mistakenly identified as being the same as Eternal Life. Only THAT which is Eternal in our make up experiences Eternal Life, because THAT which experiences Eternal Life, is Eternal Life itself! Eternal Life = Eternal Consciousness. It is tautological, I realize. The Nature of Reality is Eternality and Self-Identity as Eternal and Infinite Awareness. The Realization within a human being dissolves away your question, because your question assumes the identity of separate psychophysical beinghood. Self-Realization is realization of one's Most Real Identity, and that realization shows the error of the assumption under which such questions are formulated.
Resurrection, or passing over (Passover), suggests that death is a death of one's ordinary identity as the individual psychophysical 'me' who was conceived, born, grown and died. Death of the earthly identity results in a 'rending of the veil' of illusion so that we once again, or rather, 'God' once again has a clear realization of 'I AM' at the death of each human being. Now sometimes, we are granted such a realization while yet alive ("Yet from my flesh I shall see God" - Job 19:26). This is mysticism. Like Jesus, we experience our true nature as the ineffable "I AM.' Resurrection bodies and transmigration are attempts of intellectual expression in terms of form, when the Reality is formless. Formlessness is often expressed as 'Light' to differentiate the mind's need to analyze 'no thing' from 'nothing.' Light is a subtle form. Reality is ineffable and inexpressable by form. Unfortunately, too many people make idols out of Light, Golden Roads, Rainbow Bridges, Pearly Gates, Valhalla, Stovikor, etc.
How comforting.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Infinitys Minute
a universe inside each moment
Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1,607
Loc: Zion 
Last seen: 4 hours, 11 minutes
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I also have depression, though I no longer contemplate suicide.
I stopped seeing suicide as an option because I've met a girl who's personality is crippled for life in too many ways to describe from the suicide of a loved one, and it's one of the saddest things I've ever seen. I decided that suicide was selfish because while I got to be free of misery, everyone else gets to suffer a little more. I don't think my passing would fuck anyone's life up like that girl... but that's not the point, either.
My biggest problem has always been that although I'm not happy, I don't want anything.
What do I think happens after death? Well I believe in two options. One is that there's just nothing - not blackness because you have to be able to perceive it for there to be blackness, but you simply no longer exist. However I believe I have a 'soul' an energy that can't just disappear, it has to transfer somehow - which is the second one. I don't know if that's through reincarnation or what, but I feel this energy inside me and you can't just destroy energy. I choose to believe in the second one but there's no way to tell if that's just me placating myself and trying to quell one of my fears or if it's based on something more.
Hang in there man. Do it for yourself. And when you can't do it for yourself any longer, do it for everyone else. Like me, you just gotta keep searching for something to want.
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Pandora5a
Stranger
Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 124
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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 Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: Infinitys Minute] 1
#15932193 - 03/11/12 07:12 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Dust, lots of dust.
Your body will decay and become nutrients for more stuff to grow.
It's beautiful if you ask me. All the better to make your time most enjoyable.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,806
Loc: underbelly
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I decided that suicide was selfish because while I got to be free of misery, everyone else gets to suffer a little more.
This is a common fallacy that people labor under. That we and our actions that do not physically harm another have some kind of magical power over them. You cannot make another person suffer emotionally once they are a grown adult UNLESS THEY CHOOSE IT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL. If this were not true everyone would have the same response to what you do. The people who are crushed by the actions of others in this way always choose it and will always find a way to blame others for how they feel. They are broken psyche's no matter what your actions are. My advice, which you will not take, is get them out of your life post haste or be dragged down with them. Which will be your choice and no fault of theirs. Misery loves company.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 915
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: Icelander] 1
#15932483 - 03/11/12 11:13 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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If my daughter killed herself I would be broken. My choice or not. If I killed myself my
youngest daughter would suffer. That people suffer loss is human. Either psychologically
or physically there is suffering from the loss of loved ones. People are social animals. We
don't have a choice really. If you(almost anyone) kill yourself, then loved ones will suffer
the loss not because they are looking for someone or something to blame for how they feel
but because that is how we(social and cultural beings) are.
Peace and long life
Spock
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LSDenthusiast
Not Knowing
Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 383
Last seen: 3 days, 1 hour
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Icelander said it well.
I don't know where this whole suicide is selfish statement came from. But everywhere I turn people are spewing this. One person hears another say it and they continue to repeat the same old bull shit without actually thinking about it.
I could see it being somewhat selfish if a parent committed suicide and had young children to raise. Especially if there was no relative to take care of the children.
But if you don't have children, please tell me hows it selfish. You're not responsible for how anyone feels. If you base your entire existence on the feelings of others, you will die feeling like you've never lived.
I don't condone suicide, I just think its ridiculous seeing everyone say the same thing over and over.
Your advice at the end is the very thing that is making you depressed. The constant searching, and you said "when you can't do it for yourself anymore, do it for everyone else." Instead of pushing away that hopelessness always looking for the next fix, you should be embracing it. That's where life is. Go to the core of the problem and feel it with every cell of your body. This may seem difficult in the midst of depression, but it's really not. There's no way out. That's your savior.
Edited by LSDenthusiast (03/11/12 11:39 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,806
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: spock]
#15932494 - 03/11/12 11:18 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Wrong.
My choice or not.
Wrong. Always a choice unless you consider yourself a robot without any free will.
As I said if it were true then everyone would react the same to loss and they don't at all. Some fall apart, others accept and go on without fanfare. This all depends on ones personal psychology and imo emotional health.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 915
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: Icelander]
#15932634 - 03/11/12 12:07 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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When is "free will" real or illusion? I can't figure that out. I do know for sure, and on
many levels, that humans are interdependent. I would say that it is easy to see that
humans clearly depend on one another. Free will is something that is harder, for me at
least, to see.
Peace
Spock
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,806
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: spock]
#15932726 - 03/11/12 12:42 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know either but what I do know is no two people react the same to the same event and so to say that something is the only way or the normal way to react is clearly incorrect.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 915
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: Icelander]
#15932815 - 03/11/12 01:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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If the provider of food dies, all who depend on that food are hungry. Of course some
will get over it sooner than others and that depends on many factors but at first
all(okay most) will be hungry.
Death rituals and mourning are considered cultural universals.
Peace
Spock
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,806
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: spock]
#15932854 - 03/11/12 01:14 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Just cause war is universal doesn't mean you as an individual have to participate. 
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 hour, 26 seconds
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Thanks Fonzi!
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,343
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 15 hours, 25 minutes
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Thanks Fonzi!
--------------------
Donate bitcoins to: 1EiXM1ZSbNbksnHzTPJE2MaMNF8kKi9SQs
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 hour, 26 seconds
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: Icelander]
#15933839 - 03/11/12 05:43 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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How comforting.
NOT! But the Truth IS. And without nurturing comforting illusions, we can resolve ourselves to be "the dewdrop" that slips into "The Shining Sea," as in Sir Edwin Arnold's poem, 'The Light of Asia.'
I just returned from a funeral of my best friend's sister, whom I knew since her birth. Their parents are still alive, and I listened to a story from an octogenarian mother, who heard and felt her mother's presence during an operation for breast cancer. I do think that there is an 'intermediary' existence, an astral plane (or planes) - the Bardo - but that subtle domain must also perish. The 49 days in the Bardo, might take place within seconds (like Jodi Foster's week of experience in another world, in 'Contact,' that apparently took place in minutes of electronic 'snow' on the recording equipment. But her subjective experience was nevertheless experience.
I like the sequence in the movie 'Ghost' with Patrick Swazy. The lower (demonic) astral shades, moaning, from the Underworld, dragging the astral body (ghost) of the evil antagonist down the physical plane sewars into astral hell. Great symbolism! The next plane - the Causal - suggested by Light, which the astral Patrick Swazy enters at the end of the film. Someone did their occult homework.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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blankk
on the road
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 2,701
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
Infinitys Minute said:
I also have depression, though I no longer contemplate suicide.
I stopped seeing suicide as an option because I've met a girl who's personality is crippled for life in too many ways to describe from the suicide of a loved one, and it's one of the saddest things I've ever seen. I decided that suicide was selfish because while I got to be free of misery, everyone else gets to suffer a little more.
Sometimes it takes a crippling to break through to a new, brighter other side, and to learn how to accept something such as death of a loved one, which is something we (maybe not all) are going to have to learn sooner or later, or it's our own limitations that cause such suffering. Is it not selfish of you to want her to continue living and suffering (possibly even more) for your own happiness?
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,202
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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The nihilist or atheist existentialist, has no experience of a Transcendental Ego
Whenever I read stuff like this it smacks of phoniness and self deception. It reads to me like the writer is trying to convince himself that it's true more than he's trying to tell me how he believes things are.
It's death anxiety defined. Deny it at all costs. I call bullshit. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,806
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you guys think happens after death? [Re: Diploid]
#15934177 - 03/11/12 07:03 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
How comforting.
NOT! But the Truth IS. And without nurturing comforting illusions, we can resolve ourselves to be "the dewdrop" that slips into "The Shining Sea," as in Sir Edwin Arnold's poem, 'The Light of Asia.'
I just returned from a funeral of my best friend's sister, whom I knew since her birth. Their parents are still alive, and I listened to a story from an octogenarian mother, who heard and felt her mother's presence during an operation for breast cancer. I do think that there is an 'intermediary' existence, an astral plane (or planes) - the Bardo - but that subtle domain must also perish. The 49 days in the Bardo, might take place within seconds (like Jodi Foster's week of experience in another world, in 'Contact,' that apparently took place in minutes of electronic 'snow' on the recording equipment. But her subjective experience was nevertheless experience.
I like the sequence in the movie 'Ghost' with Patrick Swazy. The lower (demonic) astral shades, moaning, from the Underworld, dragging the astral body (ghost) of the evil antagonist down the physical plane sewars into astral hell. Great symbolism! The next plane - the Causal - suggested by Light, which the astral Patrick Swazy enters at the end of the film. Someone did their occult homework.
Quote:
Diploid said:
The nihilist or atheist existentialist, has no experience of a Transcendental Ego
Whenever I read stuff like this it smacks of phoniness and self deception. It reads to me like the writer is trying to convince himself that it's true more than he's trying to tell me how he believes things are.
It's death anxiety defined. Deny it at all costs. I call bullshit.
I second that.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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