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 Jessica Swift
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 U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself"  1
#15750423 - 02/02/12 05:59 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I've been reading and listening to him lately. His basic message is that there is no such thing as enlightenment, spirituality, or mysticism. It's all just self-gratifying bullshit that you've inherited from someone else.
One Amazon book review (the Mystique of Enlightenment) says:
"I really wish I never read this book, stay away from it. It opened my eyes to "things" and now I have no idea what to do. The real reason for me being spiritiual was for me to be special and know more than the next man and for people to garnish their attention on me. I always knew this but I was lying to myself. anyway, great book, dont read it. it will turn you upside down."
Also:
Him on his deathbed. He seems more full of anger than truth. If it's all nonsense, as he says it is, then he spent the majority of his life talking about nonsense. Which is, respectfully, semi-retarded.
Edited by Jessica Swift (02/02/12 06:13 AM)
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 Bawks
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 Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15750469 - 02/02/12 06:43 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Duh. Everything is a load of shit.
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zzripz
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Bawks]
#15750559 - 02/02/12 07:43 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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lokk, the whole point about AUTHENTIC mythology--not the toxic patriarchal manipulating patriarchal kind we have all beeen drilled in--is it point to ambiguity. What this means is that YES, the body grows old and dies and decays, BUT there is also sacred.
Ie., you have two words 'mortal' and 'immortal' , they are not separate. IF you separate them--which most of the ideologies do now, then you get absurd ideas, either megolomanic visions of beciong or being able to become 'gods' who can live for ever, either physically or in some heaven or nirvana, OR nihilism where you think everything is meaningless and when yer dead your dead.
when you dont separate them and realize that reality is mysterious and embraces all possibilities and potentialities, and..... THEN you feel yourself into the ecstatic sense of life, and death
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cbub
it
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: zzripz]
#15750910 - 02/02/12 10:51 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The real reason for me being spiritiual was for me to be special and know more than the next man and for people to garnish their attention on me.
i see. maybe that's why this book ended up in his hands?
ask yourself. what are you about? finding truth or finding happiness. nobody said they're the same thing.
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jvm
long strange trip
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: cbub]
#15751006 - 02/02/12 11:26 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Sounds like he is in denial about his impending death from what you've mentioned. Bitterness happens. Listen to your heart. This is one mans personal experience put forth into bitterness. He lacks the heart to understand.
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r72rock
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15752629 - 02/02/12 07:32 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, U.G. gets straight to the point in my opinion. I rather like him. 
Quote:
Anything I do to help you would be adding to your misery--that's all. You add one more misery to those you already have by listening to me.
As for the video that you posted, I agree. He does seem rather angry. I'd say take what's good from him, and leave the bad behind.  As he said in the video, humans care about two things: survival and fucking. He always taught that the human animal was always in conflict with itself. Our experiences, whether spiritual or mystical, are all the cause of our suffering because we want to be something other than an animal.
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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Kickle
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15752716 - 02/02/12 07:55 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I've watched that video a few times now and I can still only make out a few words of what he's saying 
but what I take away from it is that anyone who believes they are something is a fool. if that means believing you are an evolved creature or otherwise, knock it off idiot.
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circastes
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Kickle]
#15753619 - 02/02/12 10:57 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Just another primate dealing with its 100 billion neuron brain and its latest illusion, 'death is the end'.
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
she said there's good men
that there's God in everyone
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Kickle
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: circastes]
#15753677 - 02/02/12 11:11 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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minus the "just"
"another primate dealing with its 100 billion neuron brain and its latest illusion, 'death is the end'."
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Kickle] 2
#15754169 - 02/03/12 01:32 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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From what I've seen and read of him, he just seems like a mediocre man with mediocre ideas. No light in him.
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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Ginseng1]
#15754185 - 02/03/12 01:39 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ginseng1 said:
From what I've seen and read of him, he just seems like a mediocre man with mediocre ideas. No light in him.
That's my understanding as well. I was just trying to see what people like in him.
He's a spiritual-less asshole but hangs around the spiritual community. Kind of awesome in a pathetic way.
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r72rock
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15754403 - 02/03/12 03:00 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jessica Swift said:
He's a spiritual-less asshole but hangs around the spiritual community. Kind of awesome in a pathetic way.
I'm just curious, what makes him spiritual-less? And by that contrast, what makes someone spiritual?
In my opinion, he's very "spiritual." He may be angry, but in my opinion, that's total surrendering to being. He's not trying to change anything, he's accepting things as they are. Being angry is okay. It's part of being human. He's just being human. 
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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Ginseng1
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: r72rock]
#15754543 - 02/03/12 04:10 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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He must've been a grouch not because he surrendered to the heart, but because he surrendered to the mind. I never met him so ultimately I don't really know. Actually I kind of liked his style, and appreciated his uniqueness. However, like someone has said here, he simply didn't have the heart for it. Not delicate enough. He appears much too abrasive. And such a one I don't think had the experience in order to inspires other for deep transformation. I suppose that's what Jess was alluding to, that he was a prominent name in spiritual circles with many followers, yet he was dry. And going by what OP said about what he was about, it sounds like he was more about making people dry up and lose trust. Unlike others whose direction is like sweet nectar.
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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: r72rock]
#15754655 - 02/03/12 05:23 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said:
Quote:
Jessica Swift said:
He's a spiritual-less asshole but hangs around the spiritual community. Kind of awesome in a pathetic way.
I'm just curious, what makes him spiritual-less? And by that contrast, what makes someone spiritual?
In my opinion, he's very "spiritual." He may be angry, but in my opinion, that's total surrendering to being. He's not trying to change anything, he's accepting things as they are. Being angry is okay. It's part of being human. He's just being human.
Yea, I get the whole shtick he's running with, but it's also a game. There is no such thing as a gameless enterprise with humanity. We're all running social scripts and mental programs, regardless of your culture or ideology (or supposedly lack thereof).
My only point is it's a laugh fest that in most of his lectures he just dismisses everything, but he has an emotional involvement - an attachment to his opposition. A funny thing, no? to get emotional about something that supposedly isn't real. The equivalent is hating soccer, and yet going to every game and following the players and fans around... all the while claiming the game doesn't exist.
There is no such thing as soccer, really. It's an arbitrary game that we made up. Mysticism could be a similar endeavor, but what's the point in bitching about a game?
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r72rock
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15756004 - 02/03/12 03:26 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, I get what you're saying. He's just playing a different game. He does seem to get angry a lot, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I do think that's kind of waste of energy to get that angry.
I suppose I'm still curious though, if that's not spiritual, than what is?
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: r72rock]
#15756038 - 02/03/12 03:34 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said:
I suppose I'm still curious though, if that's not spiritual, than what is?
To my own mind, the notion of spirituality is inseparable from bliss.
If awareness pisses you off, you're more than likely just entertaining delusion.
Every story and concept, every stimuli, every thought, is a passing image on a screen. Eat the popcorn and enjoy the Cartesian Theater. He's the guy who yells at the black lady on her cell phone, forgetting there is no audience. Even the attendees are in your movie!
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Penelope_Tree
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15757488 - 02/03/12 09:26 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jessica Swift said:
Quote:
r72rock said:
I suppose I'm still curious though, if that's not spiritual, than what is?
To my own mind, the notion of spirituality is inseparable from bliss.
If awareness pisses you off, you're more than likely just entertaining delusion.
Every story and concept, every stimuli, every thought, is a passing image on a screen. Eat the popcorn and enjoy the Cartesian Theater. He's the guy who yells at the black lady on her cell phone, forgetting there is no audience. Even the attendees are in your movie!
cool tunes, bby.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15757681 - 02/03/12 10:04 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jessica Swift said:
Quote:
r72rock said:
I suppose I'm still curious though, if that's not spiritual, than what is?
To my own mind, the notion of spirituality is inseparable from bliss.
Hmmm. So if I slap a current to your reward center and/or dose you with a drug that unleashes a torrent of dopamine without too many unpleasant side effects, is that spiritual? 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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LSDenthusiast
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15758177 - 02/04/12 12:13 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jessica Swift said:
To my own mind, the notion of spirituality is inseparable from bliss.
I've always felt "spirituality" to be nothing but clarity. All the blissful experiences I've had, did nothing to help me. At the beginning I found them to be somewhat of an addiction, wanting to replicate them. But then you grow tired of them.
I've observed what U.G. talks about the body wanting to throw any and all experience out, even bliss is painful to the body. The body is only interested in the sensitivity and clarity of the senses.
I discovered U.G. when I first began to explore the spiritual side of things a long time ago. I kind of just dismissed him at first, and I continued along the traditional route for years. Until eventually something changed and realized he was right all along...
If you dig deeper and read some of the stories around his life. He isn't as cold as you are making him out to be. People like to only show the fiery and eruptive side of him. He becomes more controversial that way.
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: deCypher]
#15758464 - 02/04/12 01:46 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
He isn't as cold as you are making him out to be.
I'm aware I'm being a bit dramatic about him. And I agree with you about spirituality instilling "clarity." I can't say for certain what it is or isn't for everyone, as even in my own life it constantly changes. 
Quote:
deCypher said:
Hmmm. So if I slap a current to your reward center and/or dose you with a drug that unleashes a torrent of dopamine without too many unpleasant side effects, is that spiritual?
We're getting there, captain.
God helmet (wiki)
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PowerPlants
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15758629 - 02/04/12 02:46 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I think Krishnamurti's face looked just like a Praying Mantis when he was younger, especially his eyes(anyone else notice that), in this video he looks like a crazy old man. But looks can be deceiving, I can't really discern his inner state based on his appearance, but I don't really want to either, I Am content with I Am. In seeking an outer guru one should definitely try to discern his state and intentions, imo my favorite expressions of truth are those who accept all, the manifest and unmanifest, the emptiness of the unmanifest and the fullness of the manifest. Nisargadatta said, "My emptiness is full." That is the true embrace of yin/yang.
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: PowerPlants]
#15758715 - 02/04/12 03:17 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PowerPlants said:
Nisargadatta said, "My emptiness is full."
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owls
just let go!
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Ginseng1]
#15758716 - 02/04/12 03:18 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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LOL, thanks for posting this OP i thought it was pretty funny. did you see the guy sitting near him smile when they shifted the camera?
Quote:
Ginseng1 said:
From what I've seen and read of him, he just seems like a mediocre man with mediocre ideas. No light in him.
lol yeh exactly
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LSDenthusiast
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: PowerPlants]
#15759267 - 02/04/12 09:30 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PowerPlants said:
Nisargadatta said, "My emptiness is full."
In my earlier post, I was going to mention the brief encounter between U.G. and Nisargadatta Maharaj.
Here's the excerpt from the article:
Quote:
It seems that Maurice Frydman knew U. G. and also knew that he and Maharaj had never met, and probably didn't know about each other. He wanted to test the theory that one jnani can spot another jnani by putting them both in the same room, with a few other people around as camouflage. He organised a function and invited both of them to attend. U. G. spent quite some time there, but Maharaj only came for a few minutes and then left.
After Maharaj had left Maurice went up to U. G. and said, 'Did you see that old man who came in for a few minutes. Did you notice anything special? What did you see?'
U. G. replied, 'I saw a man, Maurice, but the important thing is, what did you see?'
The next day Maurice went to see Maharaj and asked, 'Did you see that man I invited yesterday?' A brief description of what he looked like and where he was standing followed.
Then Maurice asked, 'What did you see?'
Maharaj replied, 'I saw a man Maurice, but the important thing is, what did you see?'
http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/david_goodman_interview_about_nisargadatta_2.php
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: LSDenthusiast]
#15759308 - 02/04/12 10:03 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Very nice.
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15759987 - 02/04/12 02:15 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Another way to interpret the "mystical story" we potentially create for ourselves is the story of Daedalus (I'm reading Joyce's Portrait). I thought it would be interesting to cross-apply Greek folklore to Hindu philosophy, or 'anti-philosophy.'
From Wiki:
"The Labyrinth
Daedalus is first mentioned by Homer as the creator of a wide dancing-ground for Ariadne.[11] He also created the Labyrinth on Crete, in which the Minotaur (part man, part bull) was kept. In the story of the labyrinth Hellenes told, the Athenian hero Theseus is challenged to kill the Minotaur, finding his way with the help of Ariadne's thread. Daedalus' appearance in Homer is in an extended simile, "plainly not Homer's invention," Robin Lane Fox observes: "he is a point of comparison and so he belongs in stories which Homer's audience already recognized." [12] In Bronze Age Crete, an inscription da-da-re-jo-de has been read as referring to a place at Knossos,[13] and a place of worship.[14]
In Homer's language, objects which are daidala are finely crafted. They are mostly objects of armour, but fine bowls and furnishings are daidala, and on one occasion so are the "bronze-working" of "clasps, twisted brooches, earrings and necklaces" made by Hephaestus while cared for in secret by the goddesses of the sea.[15]
Ignoring Homer, later writers envisaged the labyrinth as an edifice rather than a single dancing path to the center and out again, and gave it numberless winding passages and turns that opened into one another, seeming to have neither beginning nor end.[16] Ovid, in his Metamorphoses, suggests that Daedalus constructed the Labyrinth so cunningly that he himself could barely escape it after he built it.[17] Daedalus built the labyrinth for King Minos, who needed it to imprison his wife's son the Minotaur. The story is told that Poseidon had given a white bull to Minos so that he might use it as a sacrifice. Instead, Minos kept it for himself; and in revenge, Poseidon made his wife Pasiphaë lust for the bull with the help of Aphrodite .[18] For Pasiphaë, as Greek mythologers interpreted it, Daedalus also built a wooden cow so she could mate with the bull, for the Greeks imagined the Minoan bull of the sun to be an actual, earthly bull, the slaying of which later required a heroic effort by Theseus.
This story thus encourages others to consider the long-term consequences of their own inventions with great care, lest those inventions do more harm than good."
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15760434 - 02/04/12 04:03 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jessica Swift said:
Quote:
r72rock said:
I suppose I'm still curious though, if that's not spiritual, than what is?
To my own mind, the notion of spirituality is inseparable from bliss.
If awareness pisses you off, you're more than likely just entertaining delusion.
Every story and concept, every stimuli, every thought, is a passing image on a screen. Eat the popcorn and enjoy the Cartesian Theater. He's the guy who yells at the black lady on her cell phone, forgetting there is no audience. Even the attendees are in your movie!
The Buddha pretty much told the clergy that surrounded him on his deathbed to "go fuck themselves" too
No interest in the promises of bliss.
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Jessica Swift
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Kickle]
#15760501 - 02/04/12 04:21 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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And yet they're still building elaborate temples, ordaining new monks, and quoting scripture. Personally, I see our compulsion towards ideological organization to be a natural tendency that stems from our group/mammalian profile. Evolutionary psychology, as a lens, is also a great way to understand the mind. It doesn't all have to be obscure or mystical riddles. "Yes and no" and "maybe" are more powerful answers than either affirming or dismissing spirituality, per R. A. Wilson's logic. Plus, dichotomies/polarities/independence doesn't exist in nature, so for us to say spirituality "is" or "isn't" is kind of erroneous.
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Eschalt
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15761995 - 02/04/12 10:29 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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"I have nothing to gain, or lose."
"Reject everything."
He's just pissed because he can't bullshit forever. I don't blame him.
Bullshitting is fun.
Either that or he really thinks we're just stupid monkeys with no potential.
All I know is that one should listen to oneself above all else.
If I'm lucky I'll be able to renounce all of my bullshit to the world on my deathbed, also. Stupid culture based on dollars and cents, forcing me to go around publicly worshipping money....I can see it now.
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g00ru
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Kickle]
#15762951 - 02/05/12 03:36 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I've watched that video a few times now and I can still only make out a few words of what he's saying
but what I take away from it is that anyone who believes they are something is a fool. if that means believing you are an evolved creature or otherwise, knock it off idiot.
ehhh idk if i'd be criticizing others for having an ego just yet 
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Icelander
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15763811 - 02/05/12 12:24 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jessica Swift said:
I've been reading and listening to him lately. His basic message is that there is no such thing as enlightenment, spirituality, or mysticism. It's all just self-gratifying bullshit that you've inherited from someone else.
One Amazon book review (the Mystique of Enlightenment) says:
"I really wish I never read this book, stay away from it. It opened my eyes to "things" and now I have no idea what to do. The real reason for me being spiritiual was for me to be special and know more than the next man and for people to garnish their attention on me. I always knew this but I was lying to myself. anyway, great book, dont read it. it will turn you upside down."
Also:
Him on his deathbed. He seems more full of anger than truth. If it's all nonsense, as he says it is, then he spent the majority of his life talking about nonsense. Which is, respectfully, semi-retarded.
It usually takes a long life to understand and admit the "truth" of what you really believe. He rocks in that vid.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Kickle
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: g00ru]
#15763909 - 02/05/12 12:56 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
oojijimoo said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
I've watched that video a few times now and I can still only make out a few words of what he's saying
but what I take away from it is that anyone who believes they are something is a fool. if that means believing you are an evolved creature or otherwise, knock it off idiot.
ehhh idk if i'd be criticizing others for having an ego just yet
What do you mean?
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g00ru
the kava crow
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 17,416
Loc: atlantis
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Kickle]
#15765272 - 02/05/12 07:33 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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cause while the noble direction truly is towards nothingness, many of us do not choose to remain entirely formless. I mean, fuck.
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,081
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: g00ru]
#15765916 - 02/05/12 10:12 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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humans doing human things all the way around
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g00ru
the kava crow
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 17,416
Loc: atlantis
Last seen: 2 hours, 22 minutes
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on Enlightenment, aka "Go Fuck Yourself" [Re: Kickle]
#15766330 - 02/05/12 11:48 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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 not foolish
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