Home | Community | Message Board


The Spore Depot
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Agar, Calcium Carbonate, Paul Stamets, Pressure Cooker, pH Test Strips

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineSOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 27 days, 12 hours
steam pasterizer
    #15703909 - 01/22/12 09:43 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I'm always thinking of differnt ideas( i'm sure i;m not the only one hear who does this) to make my bulk substrate days easier... I've been pondering a steamer for straw... I have seen all of those stanley steamer builds and stuff.. The thing is most says straw doesn;t work well in them.. So here is my 3ideas

1  build a steamer chamber that i could throw soak(prehydrated) straw into that had pipe running through it to distribute the steam through out the straw ...
2 This one is like the first but just let the steam rise through a grid in the bottom through the hydrated straw.
3 Build something similar to a dryer that tumbles the hydrated straw will steam passes through..


I would love to be able to cook a bale of straw at one time.. I can easily hydrate it in my creek before processing.. either shreded it after or before...

Just had some ideas and wanted some input anyone ever tried to steam hydrated straw?

If i not mistaking in one of my paul stamets books it shows them dumping it outta a steamer or somemthing..

southern


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelipa
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15704818 - 01/23/12 12:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

We just made one of these for a farm here. It throws a lot of steam "with a good burner". You can pipe the steam to the bottom and top of a 100-200 gal farm water basin or some kind of bin to pasteurize. It's basically as you can see a 55gal food grade drum with  a safety relief valve in case something causes to much pressure. These barrels will start to distort at 5-8 psi so it is important to use large pipe fittings and a relief valve. Take them above that and your asking for trouble. It is important to insulate all the pipe, the barrel and the boards used on top of your container to hold in as much heat as possible or you waste a lot of fuel.



Lipa


--------------------
John Landis Mason is my hero :shroomjar:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesparkle
Farmer
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines Flag
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15705049 - 01/23/12 01:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)


I turned an old pressure tank on it's side, put a burner under, attached a poly pipe hose with holes all over. You can put your straw on top and cover it with tarp.


--------------------
My Trade List


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelipa
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
    #15705097 - 01/23/12 01:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

What was that pressure tank used for before you hooked it up?

Lipa


--------------------
John Landis Mason is my hero :shroomjar:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesparkle
Farmer
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines Flag
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15705221 - 01/23/12 02:22 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

It is a water tank to increase pressure to as high as 40 psi mostly for our mister and other sprinklers.


--------------------
My Trade List


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesparkle
Farmer
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines Flag
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
    #15705428 - 01/23/12 03:06 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

My inspiration is this video and this guy is my idol. Talk about bulk sterilization.


--------------------
My Trade List


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 27 days, 12 hours
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
    #15706097 - 01/23/12 10:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

idol huh... its gotta be his mustache...
lipa and sparkle thank u for the pictures.. Do either of u have more pics of the setup...I'd like to see a pic of the actual thing that holds the substrate...

lipa do u use a fire burner( gas or wood), electric??

Finally how do you all control temp of steam???

thanks
southern


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelipa
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15706459 - 01/23/12 12:49 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

We use propane and adjust the steam with the burner. As soon as I make it back down to the farm I will take some pics.. You could just use wood for fuel though.

Lipa


--------------------
John Landis Mason is my hero :shroomjar:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 27 days, 12 hours
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15707487 - 01/23/12 05:24 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Thanks... lipa

I wanna pick ur brain some more.. How much water do u put in ur boiler?? DO u have the flame contained to hold heat to the barrel and how??? Does this hydrate the straw?Do u have to pre soak???? How long is the run>??

So sparkle.. basically u just lay a hose on the ground or tarp with holes all in the hose so the steam is distributed and then cover it with straw, and throw a tarp over it???? Does this hydrate the straw or do u presoak??

southern


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesparkle
Farmer
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines Flag
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15707681 - 01/23/12 06:16 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I could've put in on the ground as it was on cement but I elevated it a foot so when its inoculated and bagged it's not in contact with feet. Presoaking is a must. I was going to use rice hull but it made so much smoke, I finally used propane.


--------------------
My Trade List


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletotalM
Post Office Tyvek Advocator

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 9,751
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
    #15707995 - 01/23/12 07:25 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:popcorn:
I want to see more of your setup lipa!
Thanks for all your agar/tube tips btw!
They have helped me greatly!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelipa
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: total]
    #15714050 - 01/25/12 12:30 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

My buddy built these. I just built the steamers. This is at 9 min of heat with around 15-20 gal of water or so. I forgot the Btu of the burner. The relief valves are 5 psi but you can send them back to the manufacturer (Apollo) and they will gladly reset them to anything from 1-5 psi.

I haven't been to the farm to take decent pics. These are from a cell phone. These tubs and piping will be well wrapped with insulation. The tops are fitted with a piece of ply with insulation on top to hold in the heat. You must pre wet the straw. Use a fertilizing container with some soap in it when spraying it down to help the water penetrate better.


I must add that steaming is not the most effective way of pasteurizing. Water baths and washes work better. Lime showers work very well too as long as you monitor the PH every 10 hours or so. I built one for this guy but he never used it properly. I have one at home and it works perfect every time.

Lime shower

Florida oysters grown with the lime shower



Lipa


--------------------
John Landis Mason is my hero :shroomjar:


Edited by lipa (01/25/12 12:52 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleflameclown
totality is amust
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 927
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15714776 - 01/25/12 05:14 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Lipa, that steam pasteurizer is pretty neat. I'm looking for a more efficient way of pasteurizing, I was thinking of building a cooler with abs plumed in to distribute the steam. I would then hookup automotive hose from the rocker port of a pc to the inlet of the abs. It seems pretty similar to the photos you posted. Have you noticed any stratification of temperature in your tubs?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAleon
Void, Form, and Formless
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 444
Loc: WI, USA Flag
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15715171 - 01/25/12 10:04 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lipa said:
Lime shower

Florida oysters grown with the lime shower

Lipa




Cool lime shower. Any details in how it works and what ph you run it at?


--------------------
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."
~Anais Nin~

“Serenity is not peace outside of the storm, but peace within the storm.”
~Zoltar~

Everything we have ever been told is a lie.
Anybody who tells you something is lying, even me.
Seek the truth.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelipa
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: flameclown]
    #15715406 - 01/25/12 11:32 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

flameclown said:
Lipa, that steam pasteurizer is pretty neat. I'm looking for a more efficient way of pasteurizing, I was thinking of building a cooler with abs plumed in to distribute the steam. I would then hookup automotive hose from the rocker port of a pc to the inlet of the abs. It seems pretty similar to the photos you posted. Have you noticed any stratification of temperature in your tubs?




Stratification by  water or cold pockets? There is a hole on the bottom of the tubs for drainage into a 5 gal bucket to capture the water.

Lime shower:

John Holliday introduced me to this method. There are commercial growers that use it. I just had to design my own version of it that would work for me. The lime shower works in the same way a lime bath works "Osmotic Pressure". But, there is a difference. I have noticed lime settling with the lime bath method and there is not much oxygen in it during the soak thus allowing any contaminates that can tolerate it to grow in the stagnate water (not all organisms are destroyed by this method). It is also a waste to drain and contaminate the soil. With the lime shower it works better due to a few factors. There is more oxygen in the water and the stagnation is avoided. Also the water is constantly washing the straw and the lime water can be reused over and over again by just adding more lime to the mix to bring the PH back up to "12" which is where lime takes it in the aqueous solution. You must never shut the unit off!! The small pump it requires is not a big deal. I used a small aquarium pump that cost 12 bucks. As for hydrating the straw.....You put the straw in dry. The straw gets hydrated through capillary action during the 24 hour shower. I use paint strainer bags to hold the material and keep things clean. You can pack it in there as tight as you want it too.

Things that make this method work.

1. Must be done in a sanitary area. Not near nasties.
2. Check the PH every 10-12 hours. Some of the lime gets converted to calcium carbonate also.
3. Let the straw sit in the tub for two hours before removing. The straw only takes as much moisture as needed to hydrate it and usually it is of "perfect moisture content". If you use another material and there is a little water on the bottom place it on some newspapers to draw the excess moisture out. I use a perforated metal sheet on bottom of the top shower bin to allow drainage (like they use for doors).
4. Shred the crap out of the straw. I find a 1/2 shaft is the best.

By the way. This is an excellent way of hydrating straw.

I have been experimenting with different materials lately. These are Pleurotus cornucopia on rice hulls and 5% alfalfa. I have also used shredded paper although it got pretty wet and I had to wring it out, but King stropharias dig it!! Other materials I have used with success are coarse sawdust, woodchips and leaves.


Lipa


--------------------
John Landis Mason is my hero :shroomjar:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAleon
Void, Form, and Formless
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 444
Loc: WI, USA Flag
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15715438 - 01/25/12 11:46 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Nice, Lipa,. When I get some time I'm definitely going to try this.


--------------------
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."
~Anais Nin~

“Serenity is not peace outside of the storm, but peace within the storm.”
~Zoltar~

Everything we have ever been told is a lie.
Anybody who tells you something is lying, even me.
Seek the truth.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJavadogM
Continuing along
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,326
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15716339 - 01/25/12 03:55 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Nice write-up!

Thank you for taking the time.

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelipa
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: Aleon]
    #15716836 - 01/25/12 06:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Forgive me for intruding on your thread southern.

I went to deliver some spawn this morning and took pics. As promised here are some pics.

Here is the full steamer setup. There is a total of 4 150 gal tanks. The steamer is fully capable of heating all of them to temperature in 45 min and there is 25 gal of water to begin (100,000 Btu). Only two of them are running so far but you really have to watch the temp or they get hot. The others will get insulated soon. The plastic tubs don't even get loose from the heat. They are 3/8 inch thick.

The piping and tubs are insulated with ducting insulation and the pipes are wrapped and duck taped

The piping are isolated from the plastic with OSB, but this might change in the future if it doesn't hold up.

A gate valve so 2 tubs can be run by themselves.

All of the oysters you see here were produced from a lime bath. Most are 2nd to 3rd flush. These are blues.

These are cornucopia on the left and elms on the right. These are 3rd flush.

Here is the full room.

This is a batch mixer for hydrating and macerating the straw. Takes about an hour with dish soap to hydrate it.


--------------------
John Landis Mason is my hero :shroomjar:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleflameclown
totality is amust
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 927
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15717344 - 01/25/12 07:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Lipa, you are my hero. I really appreciate the photos of you and your friends pasteurisation setup.

When I was asking about whether there was stratification, I was more wondering if certain areas of the substrate heat up quicker than others. I worry that the substrate immediately next to the steam vents would reach proper temps much sooner than the peripheral areas.

Also, a 100k propane burner is pretty intense. I imagine you run it at full blast until you get up to temp then throttle it down. Do you get more than one pasteurisation run out of the tank?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 27 days, 12 hours
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: flameclown]
    #15717890 - 01/25/12 09:26 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Its all good lipa.. hijacked for a good cause this is why i posted , for ideas..Why did u put the steam exhaust in the top of those tubs and not the bottom??? I'm sure the osb plywood is gonna fall apart.

southern


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelipa
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: flameclown]
    #15718759 - 01/26/12 12:16 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

flameclown said:
Lipa, you are my hero. I really appreciate the photos of you and your friends pasteurisation setup.

When I was asking about whether there was stratification, I was more wondering if certain areas of the substrate heat up quicker than others. I worry that the substrate immediately next to the steam vents would reach proper temps much sooner than the peripheral areas.

Also, a 100k propane burner is pretty intense. I imagine you run it at full blast until you get up to temp then throttle it down. Do you get more than one pasteurisation run out of the tank?





Steam is always like that. It always leaves pockets unless it is being mixed at the same time. The holes in the bottom allow the cold air to escape and the steam to fill the bin gradually instead of building heat on the bottom and overheating the straw too much near the bottom. The OSB on top will keep a lot of the heat from escaping through the top to fast. Yes, heat that puppy up as high as you can get it and draw it back down until you get your temperature. It is important to measure in multiple spots.

Quote:

I'm sure the osb plywood is gonna fall apart.





For sure, although he did good by placing silicone around the edges. The top usually has a lot of glue on it. It might last for a little while.
southern


--------------------
John Landis Mason is my hero :shroomjar:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedutchfunkle
Stranger


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 52
Last seen: 8 months, 25 days
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
    #15725583 - 01/27/12 05:43 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Or you could daisy chain multiple dead deep freezers(already insulated, sealed well and FREE)bigger the better and use your PC to provide steam. I use a propane stove for mine and would guess you could fit close to 2 bales of straw per freezer in burlap sacks. You can check mine out,sorry dont know how to link,but search My BULK pastuerizer to give you an idea of how I do it,hope it helps and good luck!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecowlitz
Troll,Devonian
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 130
Loc: Damp
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: dutchfunkle]
    #15767873 - 02/06/12 01:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Great thread everyone, I've learned a lot.

Dutch, arn't you worried that the plastics in the freezers will off-gas at high temps?

Thanks,
Cowlitz


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedutchfunkle
Stranger


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 52
Last seen: 8 months, 25 days
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: cowlitz]
    #15773824 - 02/07/12 03:13 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

not at 140F,i dont think?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleflameclown
totality is amust
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 927
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: dutchfunkle]
    #15773906 - 02/07/12 03:33 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

ya, 140f is a pretty low temperature. Im not exactly sure what goes into making a fridge, but lets take for example ABS plastic which I am much more familiar with. Generally you are worried about the off gassing of plasticizers, the volatile component of plastics that make them easy to work with. ABS is usually doped with Fyrolflex, a flame retardant added into ABS to raise the temperature at which the plastic will freely burn. It has a decomposition temperature of roughly 370*f, which is pretty damn high. That is not to say there are no ill effects from bringing ABS to 370*f because Fyrolflex is only a single component, but you can surely bring ABS to 140*f without issue.

I know this was a fairly convoluted paragraph, but I didn't have time to look up the plasticizer volatility of ABS and I already had the Fyrolflex info ready.


http://www.supresta.com/pdfs/Fyrolflex-RDP-product-bulletin.pdf


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 191
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 seconds
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: dutchfunkle]
    #15912195 - 03/07/12 02:35 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dutchfunkle said:
Or you could daisy chain multiple dead deep freezers(already insulated, sealed well and FREE)bigger the better and use your PC to provide steam. I use a propane stove for mine and would guess you could fit close to 2 bales of straw per freezer in burlap sacks. You can check mine out,sorry dont know how to link,but search My BULK pastuerizer to give you an idea of how I do it,hope it helps and good luck!




I love this idea! So simple.
Is it a pretty reliable method of pasteurizing dutchfunkle?
What are your contam rates?

Cheers,

OmSource


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewood chip
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 172
Last seen: 6 days, 14 hours
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: OmSource]
    #15912228 - 03/07/12 02:51 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Dutch Bad idea.

Steam form you pressure cooker is limited by the initial water


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 191
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 seconds
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: wood chip]
    #15912275 - 03/07/12 03:11 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

a problem that's pretty easy to solve though...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJavadogM
Continuing along
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,326
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: OmSource]
    #15913000 - 03/07/12 10:15 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I notice that he did not even use the wing nuts.  I suppose that the lid
could easily be lifted, and the water level checked and adjusted if necessary.

I wish I had one.  ;0)

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinet3chnobily
Strangest
Male

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 263
Loc: As Seen In VT
Last seen: 2 days, 12 hours
Re: steam pasterizer [Re: Javadog]
    #15913027 - 03/07/12 10:33 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Dude that farm Lipa posted is dangerously inspirational.......Do Want!


--------------------
From the Dark Hills of the InterWebz!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Amazon Shop for: Agar, Calcium Carbonate, Paul Stamets, Pressure Cooker, pH Test Strips

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Bulk steam pasterizer for straw FractalXplora 229 2 05/14/11 02:55 AM
by FractalXplora
* bulk steam pasteurizer: by oakchild milkman59 2,085 4 05/12/09 11:58 AM
by Hotnuts
* water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
SOUTHERN 1,628 62 12/22/11 08:18 AM
by SOUTHERN
* Freezer temperature controller Nucleus 516 6 01/22/11 03:57 PM
by Nucleus
* steam pasteurizing filter patch bags fungus_tao 1,096 15 12/19/09 11:42 AM
by nexus1946
* Steam pasteurizing straw Ozzy 1,122 13 02/13/13 04:34 AM
by solarity
* steam pasteurise in 55 gallon drum Isolatedwedge 716 11 01/08/10 10:55 AM
by Isolatedwedge
* pasterizeing wood substrates rungi 1,223 10 06/29/07 10:09 PM
by zee_werp

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: eris, RogerRabbit, EvilMushroom666, Javadog
1,019 topic views. 1 members, 3 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Higher Balance Institute
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2013 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.11 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 17 queries.