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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER



Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
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steam pasterizer
#15703909 - 01/22/12 09:43 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I'm always thinking of differnt ideas( i'm sure i;m not the only one hear who does this) to make my bulk substrate days easier... I've been pondering a steamer for straw... I have seen all of those stanley steamer builds and stuff.. The thing is most says straw doesn;t work well in them.. So here is my 3ideas
1 build a steamer chamber that i could throw soak(prehydrated) straw into that had pipe running through it to distribute the steam through out the straw ... 2 This one is like the first but just let the steam rise through a grid in the bottom through the hydrated straw. 3 Build something similar to a dryer that tumbles the hydrated straw will steam passes through..
I would love to be able to cook a bale of straw at one time.. I can easily hydrate it in my creek before processing.. either shreded it after or before...
Just had some ideas and wanted some input anyone ever tried to steam hydrated straw?
If i not mistaking in one of my paul stamets books it shows them dumping it outta a steamer or somemthing..
southern
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lipa


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: SOUTHERN]
#15704818 - 01/23/12 12:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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We just made one of these for a farm here. It throws a lot of steam "with a good burner". You can pipe the steam to the bottom and top of a 100-200 gal farm water basin or some kind of bin to pasteurize. It's basically as you can see a 55gal food grade drum with a safety relief valve in case something causes to much pressure. These barrels will start to distort at 5-8 psi so it is important to use large pipe fittings and a relief valve. Take them above that and your asking for trouble. It is important to insulate all the pipe, the barrel and the boards used on top of your container to hold in as much heat as possible or you waste a lot of fuel.

Lipa
-------------------- John Landis Mason is my hero
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sparkle
Farmer


Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15705049 - 01/23/12 01:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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 I turned an old pressure tank on it's side, put a burner under, attached a poly pipe hose with holes all over. You can put your straw on top and cover it with tarp.
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lipa


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
#15705097 - 01/23/12 01:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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What was that pressure tank used for before you hooked it up?
Lipa
-------------------- John Landis Mason is my hero
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sparkle
Farmer


Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15705221 - 01/23/12 02:22 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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It is a water tank to increase pressure to as high as 40 psi mostly for our mister and other sprinklers.
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sparkle
Farmer


Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
#15705428 - 01/23/12 03:06 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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My inspiration is this video and this guy is my idol. Talk about bulk sterilization.
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER



Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
#15706097 - 01/23/12 10:38 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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idol huh... its gotta be his mustache... lipa and sparkle thank u for the pictures.. Do either of u have more pics of the setup...I'd like to see a pic of the actual thing that holds the substrate...
lipa do u use a fire burner( gas or wood), electric??
Finally how do you all control temp of steam???
thanks southern
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lipa


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: SOUTHERN]
#15706459 - 01/23/12 12:49 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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We use propane and adjust the steam with the burner. As soon as I make it back down to the farm I will take some pics.. You could just use wood for fuel though.
Lipa
-------------------- John Landis Mason is my hero
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER



Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 27 days, 12 hours
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15707487 - 01/23/12 05:24 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks... lipa
I wanna pick ur brain some more.. How much water do u put in ur boiler?? DO u have the flame contained to hold heat to the barrel and how??? Does this hydrate the straw?Do u have to pre soak???? How long is the run>??
So sparkle.. basically u just lay a hose on the ground or tarp with holes all in the hose so the steam is distributed and then cover it with straw, and throw a tarp over it???? Does this hydrate the straw or do u presoak??
southern
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sparkle
Farmer


Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 985
Loc: Philippines
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: SOUTHERN]
#15707681 - 01/23/12 06:16 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I could've put in on the ground as it was on cement but I elevated it a foot so when its inoculated and bagged it's not in contact with feet. Presoaking is a must. I was going to use rice hull but it made so much smoke, I finally used propane.
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 9,751
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: sparkle]
#15707995 - 01/23/12 07:25 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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 I want to see more of your setup lipa! Thanks for all your agar/tube tips btw! They have helped me greatly!
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lipa


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: total]
#15714050 - 01/25/12 12:30 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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My buddy built these. I just built the steamers. This is at 9 min of heat with around 15-20 gal of water or so. I forgot the Btu of the burner. The relief valves are 5 psi but you can send them back to the manufacturer (Apollo) and they will gladly reset them to anything from 1-5 psi.
I haven't been to the farm to take decent pics. These are from a cell phone. These tubs and piping will be well wrapped with insulation. The tops are fitted with a piece of ply with insulation on top to hold in the heat. You must pre wet the straw. Use a fertilizing container with some soap in it when spraying it down to help the water penetrate better.

I must add that steaming is not the most effective way of pasteurizing. Water baths and washes work better. Lime showers work very well too as long as you monitor the PH every 10 hours or so. I built one for this guy but he never used it properly. I have one at home and it works perfect every time.
Lime shower
 Florida oysters grown with the lime shower 
Lipa
-------------------- John Landis Mason is my hero
Edited by lipa (01/25/12 12:52 AM)
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flameclown
totality is amust


Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 927
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15714776 - 01/25/12 05:14 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Lipa, that steam pasteurizer is pretty neat. I'm looking for a more efficient way of pasteurizing, I was thinking of building a cooler with abs plumed in to distribute the steam. I would then hookup automotive hose from the rocker port of a pc to the inlet of the abs. It seems pretty similar to the photos you posted. Have you noticed any stratification of temperature in your tubs?
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Aleon
Void, Form, and Formless



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 444
Loc: WI, USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15715171 - 01/25/12 10:04 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lipa said: Lime shower
 Florida oysters grown with the lime shower  Lipa
Cool lime shower. Any details in how it works and what ph you run it at?
--------------------
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."
~Anais Nin~
“Serenity is not peace outside of the storm, but peace within the storm.”
~Zoltar~
Everything we have ever been told is a lie.
Anybody who tells you something is lying, even me.
Seek the truth.
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lipa


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA
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Quote:
flameclown said: Lipa, that steam pasteurizer is pretty neat. I'm looking for a more efficient way of pasteurizing, I was thinking of building a cooler with abs plumed in to distribute the steam. I would then hookup automotive hose from the rocker port of a pc to the inlet of the abs. It seems pretty similar to the photos you posted. Have you noticed any stratification of temperature in your tubs?
Stratification by water or cold pockets? There is a hole on the bottom of the tubs for drainage into a 5 gal bucket to capture the water.
Lime shower:
John Holliday introduced me to this method. There are commercial growers that use it. I just had to design my own version of it that would work for me. The lime shower works in the same way a lime bath works "Osmotic Pressure". But, there is a difference. I have noticed lime settling with the lime bath method and there is not much oxygen in it during the soak thus allowing any contaminates that can tolerate it to grow in the stagnate water (not all organisms are destroyed by this method). It is also a waste to drain and contaminate the soil. With the lime shower it works better due to a few factors. There is more oxygen in the water and the stagnation is avoided. Also the water is constantly washing the straw and the lime water can be reused over and over again by just adding more lime to the mix to bring the PH back up to "12" which is where lime takes it in the aqueous solution. You must never shut the unit off!! The small pump it requires is not a big deal. I used a small aquarium pump that cost 12 bucks. As for hydrating the straw.....You put the straw in dry. The straw gets hydrated through capillary action during the 24 hour shower. I use paint strainer bags to hold the material and keep things clean. You can pack it in there as tight as you want it too.
Things that make this method work.
1. Must be done in a sanitary area. Not near nasties. 2. Check the PH every 10-12 hours. Some of the lime gets converted to calcium carbonate also. 3. Let the straw sit in the tub for two hours before removing. The straw only takes as much moisture as needed to hydrate it and usually it is of "perfect moisture content". If you use another material and there is a little water on the bottom place it on some newspapers to draw the excess moisture out. I use a perforated metal sheet on bottom of the top shower bin to allow drainage (like they use for doors). 4. Shred the crap out of the straw. I find a 1/2 shaft is the best.
By the way. This is an excellent way of hydrating straw.
I have been experimenting with different materials lately. These are Pleurotus cornucopia on rice hulls and 5% alfalfa. I have also used shredded paper although it got pretty wet and I had to wring it out, but King stropharias dig it!! Other materials I have used with success are coarse sawdust, woodchips and leaves.

Lipa
-------------------- John Landis Mason is my hero
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Aleon
Void, Form, and Formless



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 444
Loc: WI, USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15715438 - 01/25/12 11:46 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Nice, Lipa,. When I get some time I'm definitely going to try this.
--------------------
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."
~Anais Nin~
“Serenity is not peace outside of the storm, but peace within the storm.”
~Zoltar~
Everything we have ever been told is a lie.
Anybody who tells you something is lying, even me.
Seek the truth.
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,326
Loc: USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15716339 - 01/25/12 03:55 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Nice write-up!
Thank you for taking the time.
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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lipa


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: Aleon]
#15716836 - 01/25/12 06:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Forgive me for intruding on your thread southern.
I went to deliver some spawn this morning and took pics. As promised here are some pics.
Here is the full steamer setup. There is a total of 4 150 gal tanks. The steamer is fully capable of heating all of them to temperature in 45 min and there is 25 gal of water to begin (100,000 Btu). Only two of them are running so far but you really have to watch the temp or they get hot. The others will get insulated soon. The plastic tubs don't even get loose from the heat. They are 3/8 inch thick.
 The piping and tubs are insulated with ducting insulation and the pipes are wrapped and duck taped  The piping are isolated from the plastic with OSB, but this might change in the future if it doesn't hold up.  A gate valve so 2 tubs can be run by themselves.  All of the oysters you see here were produced from a lime bath. Most are 2nd to 3rd flush. These are blues.
 These are cornucopia on the left and elms on the right. These are 3rd flush.  Here is the full room.  This is a batch mixer for hydrating and macerating the straw. Takes about an hour with dish soap to hydrate it.
-------------------- John Landis Mason is my hero
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flameclown
totality is amust


Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 927
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15717344 - 01/25/12 07:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Lipa, you are my hero. I really appreciate the photos of you and your friends pasteurisation setup.
When I was asking about whether there was stratification, I was more wondering if certain areas of the substrate heat up quicker than others. I worry that the substrate immediately next to the steam vents would reach proper temps much sooner than the peripheral areas.
Also, a 100k propane burner is pretty intense. I imagine you run it at full blast until you get up to temp then throttle it down. Do you get more than one pasteurisation run out of the tank?
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER



Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 27 days, 12 hours
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Its all good lipa.. hijacked for a good cause this is why i posted , for ideas..Why did u put the steam exhaust in the top of those tubs and not the bottom??? I'm sure the osb plywood is gonna fall apart.
southern
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lipa


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA
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Quote:
flameclown said: Lipa, you are my hero. I really appreciate the photos of you and your friends pasteurisation setup.
When I was asking about whether there was stratification, I was more wondering if certain areas of the substrate heat up quicker than others. I worry that the substrate immediately next to the steam vents would reach proper temps much sooner than the peripheral areas.
Also, a 100k propane burner is pretty intense. I imagine you run it at full blast until you get up to temp then throttle it down. Do you get more than one pasteurisation run out of the tank?
Steam is always like that. It always leaves pockets unless it is being mixed at the same time. The holes in the bottom allow the cold air to escape and the steam to fill the bin gradually instead of building heat on the bottom and overheating the straw too much near the bottom. The OSB on top will keep a lot of the heat from escaping through the top to fast. Yes, heat that puppy up as high as you can get it and draw it back down until you get your temperature. It is important to measure in multiple spots.
Quote:
I'm sure the osb plywood is gonna fall apart.
For sure, although he did good by placing silicone around the edges. The top usually has a lot of glue on it. It might last for a little while. southern
-------------------- John Landis Mason is my hero
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dutchfunkle
Stranger


Registered: 02/10/11
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: lipa]
#15725583 - 01/27/12 05:43 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Or you could daisy chain multiple dead deep freezers(already insulated, sealed well and FREE)bigger the better and use your PC to provide steam. I use a propane stove for mine and would guess you could fit close to 2 bales of straw per freezer in burlap sacks. You can check mine out,sorry dont know how to link,but search My BULK pastuerizer to give you an idea of how I do it,hope it helps and good luck!
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cowlitz
Troll,Devonian


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Great thread everyone, I've learned a lot.
Dutch, arn't you worried that the plastics in the freezers will off-gas at high temps?
Thanks, Cowlitz
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dutchfunkle
Stranger


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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: cowlitz]
#15773824 - 02/07/12 03:13 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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not at 140F,i dont think?
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flameclown
totality is amust


Registered: 04/04/04
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ya, 140f is a pretty low temperature. Im not exactly sure what goes into making a fridge, but lets take for example ABS plastic which I am much more familiar with. Generally you are worried about the off gassing of plasticizers, the volatile component of plastics that make them easy to work with. ABS is usually doped with Fyrolflex, a flame retardant added into ABS to raise the temperature at which the plastic will freely burn. It has a decomposition temperature of roughly 370*f, which is pretty damn high. That is not to say there are no ill effects from bringing ABS to 370*f because Fyrolflex is only a single component, but you can surely bring ABS to 140*f without issue.
I know this was a fairly convoluted paragraph, but I didn't have time to look up the plasticizer volatility of ABS and I already had the Fyrolflex info ready.
http://www.supresta.com/pdfs/Fyrolflex-RDP-product-bulletin.pdf
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
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Quote:
dutchfunkle said: Or you could daisy chain multiple dead deep freezers(already insulated, sealed well and FREE)bigger the better and use your PC to provide steam. I use a propane stove for mine and would guess you could fit close to 2 bales of straw per freezer in burlap sacks. You can check mine out,sorry dont know how to link,but search My BULK pastuerizer to give you an idea of how I do it,hope it helps and good luck!
I love this idea! So simple. Is it a pretty reliable method of pasteurizing dutchfunkle? What are your contam rates?
Cheers,
OmSource
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wood chip
Stranger

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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: OmSource]
#15912228 - 03/07/12 02:51 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Dutch Bad idea.
Steam form you pressure cooker is limited by the initial water
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
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a problem that's pretty easy to solve though...
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: OmSource]
#15913000 - 03/07/12 10:15 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I notice that he did not even use the wing nuts. I suppose that the lid could easily be lifted, and the water level checked and adjusted if necessary.
I wish I had one. ;0)
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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t3chnobily
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Re: steam pasterizer [Re: Javadog]
#15913027 - 03/07/12 10:33 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Dude that farm Lipa posted is dangerously inspirational.......Do Want!
-------------------- From the Dark Hills of the InterWebz!
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