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 Stonehenge
enthusiast
 
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,786
Loc: S.E.
Last seen: 5 minutes, 59 seconds
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 Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle?  [Re: DieCommie]
#15539857 - 12/19/11 03:20 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Photons have no resting state so "rest mass" has no meaning. Calling the momentum and mass of a photon "relativistic" is a way around it. Photons do have observable mass but in theory, zero rest mass. But that last can't be measured.
Energy can be dynamic or potential. When a lump of coal burns its potential energy is changed into dynamic energy so the total mass of the system, coal plus air, does not change. Since dynamic energy such as light does not have rest mass, it can be called relativistic. If the mass of the solar system was suddenly changed into energy, there would be no more matter and no rest mass but the solar system would still exert gravity on neighboring bodies.
You cant have a higgs field without the boson which supposedly carries it. Just like you cant have light or em radiation without photons. Super string theory does not predict the higgs boson and more and more scientists are going over to that belief system.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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 johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,592
Loc: Americas
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Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: Stonehenge]
#15543336 - 12/20/11 03:10 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Photons have no resting state so "rest mass" has no meaning.
How does that follow? The mass of a photon is quite relevant in any number of considerations, and from these we can determine that indeed the photon lacks mass.
"Rest mass" is what is meant by the term "mass"- I was simply pointing out that it is not true that all energetic systems thereby have mass- as you seem to suggest above.
Quote:
Photons do have observable mass but in theory, zero rest mass. But that last can't be measured.
Why not? One can easily determine that the photon has energy, momentum, and use these properties to deduce the fact that the rest mass is 0.
Quote:
Energy can be dynamic or potential. When a lump of coal burns its potential energy is changed into dynamic energy so the total mass of the system, coal plus air, does not change.
You seem to be using a different definition of "mass". This 'mass', in your terms, is not the quality which photons lack.
The products in the exothermic reaction will have less mass than the reactants: the difference equaling the free energy change divided by the square of c.
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Stonehenge
enthusiast
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,786
Loc: S.E.
Last seen: 5 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: johnm214]
#15544623 - 12/20/11 12:42 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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John, i have never gotten anywhere discussing anything with you. Believe what you wish.
It makes a difference if a particle is tunneling or not. Tunneling means the particle ceases to exist and reappears in another spot. To travel means the particle exists at all points along the way. Or so theory says. Electrons have been known to tunnel through insulators. We could never measure the apparent speed of the process.
I have given my views, others gave theirs.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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 Its Pat
Fetch Us Some Jellies
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 7,976
Loc: THAT MAKES ME BETTER THAN...
Last seen: 23 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: Seuss]
#15548008 - 12/21/11 12:11 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> i discovered cern created the internet...
Cerf, not CERN, created the internet. Contrary to popular belief, the internet existed for several decades before the web browser.
And that would be a direct result of the funding from ARPA/DARPA
What was the genesis for the INTERWEBZ was originally a project to make certain that the US could communicate with itself during a FULL SCALE NUCLEAR ATTACK. The only way you can insure that is Multiple Gateways, now called routers, with Multiple data link to those Gateways. Effectively if a Gateway or Link was taken out the data had a way to re-route through another link.
Back then they thought we would have enough IPv4 Addresses for eternity. Even after you substract the Class D 227.0.0.0-255.255.255.254 for Multicasting! If only they knew...
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BigUpRadio
WorldReggaeShow
DreaderThanDread - Listen!
(druqs said) don't get arsey, just get RC.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,394
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: Stonehenge]
#15548879 - 12/21/11 05:08 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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> John, i have never gotten anywhere discussing anything with you. Believe what you wish.
Awww... what about me? I feel let out. 
> It makes a difference if a particle is tunneling or not.
Does it make a difference if the media likes to call the particle a deity particle or not?
 (Sorry, couldn't resist... still laughing over your original post.)
> We could never measure the apparent speed of the process.
Actually, we can and we have. See the research by Günter Nimtz and Ursula Keller.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Stonehenge
enthusiast
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,786
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Last seen: 5 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: Seuss]
#15549600 - 12/21/11 11:08 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Seus, you are usually reasonable. You only got unreasonable (imo) in the magnetron discussion.
>Does it make a difference if the media likes to call the particle a deity particle or not?
The media does the thinking for many people now days. Between work, relationships, play etc who has time to think?
The speed of tunneling is in theory instantaneous but our instruments cant measure that closely. tunneling seems to involve the particle or photon vanishing in one spot and reappearing in another. If this really ftl movement? It depends on your definition of movement. Usually, the object has to be present at all points along the journey. We cant even be sure if the new particle is the same as the one that vanished or not.
tunneling has been known for a long time and even used in electric circuits. If the neutrinos tunneled during part of their journey then it was not a true example of ftl travel since part of the trip was sub light speed and part instantaneous or close to it..
I'm going to post on a "new" power source that is non polluting and much cheaper than conventional fission power sources. Can anyone guess what it is? Not solar, not fossil fuels but a form of nukes.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Its Pat
Fetch Us Some Jellies
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 7,976
Loc: THAT MAKES ME BETTER THAN...
Last seen: 23 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: Stonehenge]
#15549614 - 12/21/11 11:12 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Doesn't it make sense that in order to Measure Something that exist in another Dimension, every so briefly, you have to perform Measurements in That Dimension. Am I missing something?
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BigUpRadio
WorldReggaeShow
DreaderThanDread - Listen!
(druqs said) don't get arsey, just get RC.
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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 Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: Stonehenge]
#15551627 - 12/21/11 06:18 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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how can a particle exist at all points between points a and b? i wish i was tripping at the moment, this is some deep stuff... 
(edit) hmmmmmm...
Kensho 
Edited by cateyes (12/21/11 10:22 PM)
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Stonehenge
enthusiast
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,786
Loc: S.E.
Last seen: 5 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: What are these whispers on the wind about the Higgs boson particle? [Re: cateyes]
#15555560 - 12/22/11 11:49 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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cat, when anything moves from point a to point b, it exists at all points in between, just not at the same time. If a particle vanishes and reappears at the other side of the galaxy, it has not broken the speed of light imo.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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