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 mycofile
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 Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation  [Re: Rustik]
#1554398 - 05/16/03 04:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actinomycetes can be cultured by keeping temps around 120 degress. This is relatively simple. The Bob Harris express composting can do this easily. It's been described repeatedly over the years, basically a cooler and a steam humidifier.
Just take your wood chips, mix with a little soil/compost to innoculate with actis, then hold the temps at 120 for a day/couple days.
Acti's are not slow growing or spreading, they just prefer higher temps than are commonly found outdoors in nature. If you think they may be the key, and I think you've got the best theory I've heard so far, then encourage their cultivation via composting.
Also, along with the theory, it may be that azure's eat the acti's. This is what I'm imagining: Acti's thrive and spread during the summer, but like you said prefering the edges, then when the cold weather hits, they die, the azures eat their dead cells (they would simply co-exist if the temps were higher), and the ingestion of the acti's stimulates the fruiting. The reason I'm hoping this is it, is that it basically would/could rule out the temps as being necessary to fruition. One would simply need to culture actis on wood, kill the actis, then mix with an established azure bed to stimulate the fruiting. A longer shot than your mult-pointed approach, but it sure would be cool if it became that simple.
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"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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 jarhead
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: mycofile]
#1554685 - 05/16/03 07:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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found some info on this korean site on composting and micro-organisms :
quote :
Sawdust fermented feed
most farmer believe that sawdust cannot be used for manure or as feed.
This is because sawdust contains tannin or lignin which, if plant roots are in touch with, cause the root to wither and if animals eat a large amount of sawdust, animals might die due to stomach disorder. However, if saw-dusts are fermented rising effective microbes, tannin and lignin are dissoved during the course of fermenting and even the strongest fibrous materials are changed to digestible state, creating top-quality feed or manure.
http://www.organic.or.kr/whatis/what6.php
jut a thought...in the end mushroomformation is all with the (reproductive)purpose of spore-creation , so could it be that the actinomyces in some way promote sporegermination so the mycelium starts producing mushrooms when the surrounding substrate is favourable for this germination ?
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jarhead
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: jarhead]
#1554758 - 05/16/03 07:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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from a seminar held at wageningen on agro-ecosystems health :
a healthy soil produces antibiotics by its actinomyces
another site even claimed that is what we smell when we smell good soil
at the university of kentucky , college of agriculture a page with most growthparameters etc is published :
http://www.ca.uky.edu/agripedia/classes/pls566/class16.htm
and another one :
." Might it be that in their struggle for survival within the soil these human pathogens were destroyed by chemicals produced by other species of bacteria? These chemicals and Waksman was the first to coin this term would be "antibiotics," literally "against life."
In 1940, a year before Florey and Chain rediscovered penicillin, Waksman initiated a systematic search for these antibiotics, though he could never have anticipated that his own chosen species, the actinomyces, would prove to be the source of so many antibiotics currently in clinical use including streptomycin, chloramphenicol, tetracycline, erythromycin, nystatin, and vancomycin
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jarhead
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: jarhead]
#1554770 - 05/16/03 07:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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this one also has extensive info on the concentrations of actinomyces in different substrates
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010112Krasil/010112krasil.ptIV.8.html
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Anonymous
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 Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: mycofile]
#1556236 - 05/17/03 03:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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comario2
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: ]
#1556576 - 05/17/03 07:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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enough theory, time to get to work 
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comario
"crusaders against emotional poverty"
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Anonymous
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: comario2]
#1556721 - 05/17/03 09:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Rustik
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: ]
#1557883 - 05/18/03 04:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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In response to mycofile's post -
I believe the thermophilic actinos are the quickest growing, but azures might prefer a combination of thermophilic and mesophilic actinomycetes. And there's no telling (at least until some experimentation is done) what the exact relationship between the bacteria and the azures is. Like suntzu said, it could be any metabolic byproduct or even the dead actinos themselves (as Mr Mushrooms suggests).
Thermophilic actinomycetes are more quickly growing, and culturing these from soil would be a fairly straightforward task for anyone with a flowhood and some PDA plates.
In fact, I found a link that is basically a lab experiment on how to isolate antibiotic-producing actinos.
http://www.chemheritage.org/EducationalServices/pharm/antibiot/activity/dirt.htm
This is not the one I was thinking of that I found earlier, but something along these lines.
I also think that these guys might be very beneficial in cubensis cultivation (see some of Six Tangos grow logs, the compost he uses is RICH in actinos and he gets some very impressive results). It might just be that during the azures' evolution, it found a way to use the actinos more extensively than the cubensis. Who knows? Someone needs to get on this and start making some cultures.
EDIT - Mycofile - that would be awesome if it came to be discovered that the cold temperature is not necessary, only some artificial method of kiling the actinos. Perhaps a deep cold shock around freezing or so for around 24 hrs, then an attempt to fruit at higher temps with a actino-rich substrate.
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The blue... the blue!!!
Edited by Rustik (05/18/03 04:14 PM)
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Rustik
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: Rustik]
#1557890 - 05/18/03 04:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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OR it could be the antibiotics that the actinos produce that the azures are so fond of.. That just crossed my mind.
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The blue... the blue!!!
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Anonymous
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: Rustik]
#1557899 - 05/18/03 04:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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whiterasta
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: ]
#1559552 - 05/19/03 10:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am experimenting with mesophilic Actos right now on B+ cubes grown on Alder (thread in growlog forum) So far the acto inoculation is performing very well in colonizing the chips compared to an uninoculated experiment which contaminated in two days.
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mycofile
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Re: P. azurescens Indoor Cultivation [Re: whiterasta]
#1559900 - 05/19/03 01:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, if we are expanding the subject to acti's and other species, yes cubes are very fond of them. Straw pasteurized at 140 for 4 hours, (kills fewer acti's than the standard 160 for 1 hr.) and then held at 120 for 24-48 hrs to encourage acti's performs nominally better yield wise than standard preparation of straw. But colonization rates and contam resistance are notably improved. Straw was prepared in a Harris style composter, using it as a steam pasteurizer/acti incubator.
Also of interest is that straw prepared in this manner is much more productive with Pans. than traditionally preped straw. Everybody knows pans can't fight off contams as well as cubes. Encouraging the acti's on the straw gives it more protection against contams and makes it more mycelium specific. I never got more than one flush off of straw with pans before contams set in, but I've seen acti encouraged straw do much better.
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"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Paid
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: Rustik]
#1560440 - 05/19/03 05:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have a few trays im attempting to fruit indoors
at the moment, there going into the fridge every night and spending 8 hours at 5?f then 16 hours at 70 ?f, two were cased with chilled over soaked vermiculite, and one left uncased.
But i have many other trays ready to play with and was
just wondering what maybe a good way to make up an
actinomycete tea?Are they the active part to white button casing?If so do you think if i got some from a local farm and boiled it into a tea, or prehapes cold soaked it and then
use a u.v pond cleaner to kill any badies?
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Rustik
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: Paid]
#1560468 - 05/19/03 05:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The only way that I could think of would be to pasturize some compost, and use the leftover liquid from pastuerization to add to your substrate.
Quote:
Are they the active part to white button casing?
I don't know what "white button casing" is.. Sorry.
What I would try is to take one of those casings and stir in some good (pastuerized) compost, mix it in real well, so as to distribute the actinos throughout the casing. After that, who knows.. It would take several tries to finally get some fruits, I'm sure.
Quote:
were cased with chilled over soaked vermiculite, and one left uncased.
This is probably why they won't fruit. They need soil rich in actinos for compost. I would scrape off the verm casing layer and replace with some well-aged wood compost (again, pasteurized), mix it in, then case it again with a thinner layer of the compost. Try soil from a densly wooded area on the uncased one. Keep us posted, Paid - good work on teh casings!
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The blue... the blue!!!
Edited by Rustik (05/19/03 05:11 PM)
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Paid
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: Rustik]
#1560505 - 05/19/03 05:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cool, well i'll leave whats started as is,as its only been going 5 days out the incubator, but i'll start a Psilocybe azurescens
and Psilocybe azurescens tray using your suggested mix then case method
and another of the same two i shall make up a weak tea and dunk for 24 hours.
I forgot to mention that the Psilocybe subaeruginosa above is the only one
i used well rotted 2 year old woodchips, all the others were done with fresh
cut hazel branches, the 2 year old chips colonised much faster than the fresh stuff for me, but then i didnt try Psilocybe azurescens or Psilocybe cyanescens
on the older chips.I will.
I'll keep you updated :-)
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Edited by Paid (05/19/03 05:25 PM)
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Rustik
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: Paid]
#1560684 - 05/19/03 06:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks Paid - good to see someone experimenting with this info. Start a grow log and keep us informed - link to it in this thread in case anyoen else is interested in seeing any progress made.
Remember - even failure is a good thing when you have a reasonable basis for comparison - I'm interested to see how the azures cased with verm do compared to the casing mixed in with composted chips. 
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The blue... the blue!!!
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Paid
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: Paid]
#1560704 - 05/19/03 06:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ive been looking up actinomycetes (as id never heard of them)
in an attempt to find a good tea ingredient, and wonder on this
Canna Zym (TM):High quality enzyme preparation for breaking down
(hemi) cellulose and stimulating microlife.
Which i already use in hydroponics and house plants.
And on reading seem to do what actinomycetes are reported to do.
I'll try and find out more about it.Even if it doesnt contain actinomycetes
it maybe useful in there cultivation.
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Paid
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: Paid]
#1560730 - 05/19/03 06:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Canna Zym
Contains more than 15 different enzymes
and actinomycetes are somtimes used in enzyme productionso i just need
to find out if they are used in the production of this product, and i have
a ready made tea :-)
Luckily i have about 5 trays of each lol.
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mycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: Paid]
#1560744 - 05/19/03 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Paid, the "active" part that is required in button casing is (I believe) a sp. of psudomonas bacteria. But, since button casing can't be sterilized, there is a good chance that acti's would be present in it as they typically survive pasteurization. All soil outside is likely to contain acti's, as would any compost.
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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comario2
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Re: P. azurescens Cultivation (symbiosis w/actinomycetes) [Re: mycofile]
#1562628 - 05/20/03 12:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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what happens to the actis in compost, when the compost is dehydrated, and subsequently re-hydrated, then pasteurized. do the actis revive or are they killed by the dehydration?
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comario
"crusaders against emotional poverty"
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