|
 LucyLove
On A Quest For Glory
Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 5,044
|
 Should I try meditation? 
#15442648 - 11/30/11 12:54 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Edit: conceal identity of someone
Should I try meditating?
What are the benefits?
And what are the best methods?
--------------------
"Either way my morning will be the same. It is just I don't want to ruin my brain"
Edited by LucyLove (12/01/11 12:30 AM)
|
 moi
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 710
Last seen: 5 days, 11 hours
|
 Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: LucyLove]
#15442698 - 11/30/11 01:07 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
picking up meditation is always a good choice. it's such a good choice that your question kinda stands in a funny light, cause the answer is always yes anyway.
|
LucyLove
On A Quest For Glory
Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 5,044
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: moi]
#15442708 - 11/30/11 01:08 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
moi said:
picking up meditation is always a good choice. it's such a good choice that your question kinda stands in a funny light, cause the answer is always yes anyway.
I guess it's worth a try.
What are some methods of meditation? And I'm asking from personal experience please.
--------------------
"Either way my morning will be the same. It is just I don't want to ruin my brain"
Edited by LucyLove (11/30/11 01:09 AM)
|
Ped
Circumspect
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 2,315
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 40 minutes, 21 seconds
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: LucyLove]
#15442765 - 11/30/11 01:29 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Please don't start meditating. It has never really helped anyone. Just look out the window and see what appears there. Everything you need to be happy is right there in the window. Or you can sit on the couch and just take in your experience, noticing as your concentration congeals around and then lets go of this or that. You'll find everything that you need to be happy right there in the mere appearance of your carpet, or the paint on the walls, or whatever your house has. I guess you could sit on the floor doing that too. You could keep your back straight and your eyes partially open, with your ears in line with your shoulders and your nose in line with your navel. Sitting on the edge of a cushion with one foot in front of the other is more comfortable. But please, please try all of these things before you try meditation. It would be better if you just looked out the window, or sat quietly on the couch or the floor, never picking up meditation at all, as that's really among the worst things you could possibly do for yourself. It sends your mind careening painfully out of control with all sorts of convincing and altogether addictive fantasies.
--------------------
Edited by Ped (11/30/11 01:31 AM)
|
The Influence
I make it do what it do
Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 4,387
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: Ped]
#15442775 - 11/30/11 01:33 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ped said:
Please don't start meditating. It has never really helped anyone. Just look out the window and see what appears there. Everything you need to be happy is right there in the window. Or you can sit on the couch and just take in your experience, noticing as your concentration congeals around and then lets go of this or that. You'll find everything that you need to be happy right there in the mere appearance of your carpet, or the paint on the walls, or whatever your house has. I guess you could sit on the floor doing that too. You could keep your back straight and your eyes partially open, with your ears in line with your shoulders and your nose in line with your navel. Sitting on the edge of a cushion with one foot in front of the other is more comfortable. But please, please try all of these things before you try meditation. It would be better if you just looked out the window, or sat quietly on the couch or the floor, never picking up meditation at all, as that's really among the worst things you could possibly do for yourself. It sends your mind careening painfully out of control with all sorts of convincing and altogether addictive fantasies.
Isn't meditation just observing things for what they are? Calming your thoughts and grounding ones mind? How does it induce addictive fantasies?
--------------------
Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced 
|
Ped
Circumspect
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 2,315
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 40 minutes, 21 seconds
|
|
>> Isn't meditation just observing things for what they are?
This cannot be done, because it is already happening all the time, whether it is realized or not. It is like trying to take over the growth of your own hair. All that does is cause frustration and impatience.
>> Calming your thoughts and grounding ones mind?
This is definitely impossible. You can't really calm your thoughts and ground your mind any more than you can beat your own heart or grow your own fingernails. The pancreas secretes insulin. The mind secretes thoughts. There is no use in trying to tamper with such things.
>> How does it induce addictive fantasies?
It may be possible to temporarily and artificially induce a kind of tranquilized state whereby thoughts move by slowly or fewer in number, and some sensation appears of being blissfully connected with all things. But this is just a distortion created by putting all of our concentration on a single point. It is a distraction from, not an indicator of, our original self.
It may be possible to use a magnifying glass to concentrate the sun's rays into a single point, and as children we thought this was an amazing accomplishment--as though we had mastered some kind of mysterious and awesome power--but in reality it was a total distraction from the resplendent glory of the sun's life-giving omnipresence. Sitting there trying to light a twig on fire with a lens, a whole realm of imagination passed by overhead with each unnoticed cloud.
--------------------
Edited by Ped (11/30/11 01:57 AM)
|
moi
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 710
Last seen: 5 days, 11 hours
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: Ped]
#15442836 - 11/30/11 01:57 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ped said:
Please don't start meditating. It has never really helped anyone. Just look out the window and see what appears there. Everything you need to be happy is right there in the window. Or you can sit on the couch and just take in your experience, noticing as your concentration congeals around and then lets go of this or that. You'll find everything that you need to be happy right there in the mere appearance of your carpet, or the paint on the walls, or whatever your house has. I guess you could sit on the floor doing that too. You could keep your back straight and your eyes partially open, with your ears in line with your shoulders and your nose in line with your navel. Sitting on the edge of a cushion with one foot in front of the other is more comfortable. But please, please try all of these things before you try meditation. It would be better if you just looked out the window, or sat quietly on the couch or the floor, never picking up meditation at all, as that's really among the worst things you could possibly do for yourself. It sends your mind careening painfully out of control with all sorts of convincing and altogether addictive fantasies.
i don't understand what you're trying to do. sitting quiet is meditation imho.
sitting consciously, just trying to relax, is pretty much all i do as meditation.
|
The Influence
I make it do what it do
Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 4,387
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: Ped]
#15442851 - 11/30/11 02:02 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ped said:>> Isn't meditation just observing things for what they are?
This cannot be done, because it is already happening all the time, whether it is realized or not. It is like trying to take over the growth of your own hair. All that does is cause frustration and impatience.
No it is not being done all the time, you support my statement by saying "whether it is realized or not". When one is not realizing something they are not observing it for what it is.
Quote:
Ped said:>> Calming your thoughts and grounding ones mind?
This is definitely impossible. You can't really calm your thoughts and ground your mind any more than you can beat your own heart or grow your own hair fingernails. The pancreas secretes insulin. The mind secretes thoughts. There is no use in trying to tamper with such things.
No having a million thoughts race through your head is frustrating, and yes you can control your hear beat, your thoughts and emotions play a direct role in your heartbeat. How do you think a polygraph tests works? Ever get excited about something? Your heart beats faster. And what do you mean there is no use in tampering with your consciousness? Your on a website dedicated to doing just that with the use of drugs.
Quote:
Ped said: >> How does it induce addictive fantasies?
It may be possible to temporarily and artificially induce a kind of tranquilized state whereby thoughts move by slowly or fewer in number, and some sensation appears of being blissfully connected with all things. But this is just a distortion created by putting all of our concentration on a single point. It is a distraction from, not an indicator of, our original self.
It may be possible to use a magnifying glass to concentrate the sun's rays into a single point, and as children we thought this was an amazing accomplishment--as though we had mastered some kind of mysterious and awesome power--but in reality it was a total distraction from resplendent glory of the sun's life-giving omnipresence. Sitting there trying to light a twig on fire with a lens, a whole realm of imagination passed by overhead with each unnoticed cloud.
Imagination is fantasy so your point is null. Meditation is used for many things. But fantasy isn't one of them to my knowledge.
--------------------
Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced
|
Ped
Circumspect
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 2,315
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 40 minutes, 21 seconds
|
|
>> i don't understand what you're trying to do. sitting quiet is meditation imho.
Sitting quietly is sitting quietly. Meditation is a parody of sitting quietly.
>> When one is not realizing something they are not observing it for what it is.
A tree is not realizing how to be a tree, a tree is just a tree. It is being what it is. If we want to just be what we are, the absolute last endeavour we should embark upon is trying to be so by engaging in some kind of activity. In fact this further displaces our experience with masses of conceptualization which have the propensity to increase exponentially over time.
>> No having a million thoughts race through your head is frustrating
It is frustrating not because of the mere truth of it, but because of our rejection of the mere truth of it. Such rejection constitutes adding another layer to an existing phenomenon in an effort to be rid that original phenomenon. This is exactly what "doing meditation" is: adding another layer of conceptualization and activity to the problem of over-conceptualizing and over-activity. It is like putting legs on a snake.
>> yes you can control your hear beat, your thoughts and emotions play a direct role in your heartbeat. How do you think a polygraph tests works? Ever get excited about something? Your heart beats faster.
It is not possible to gain actual, meaningful control over thoughts and emotions, thereby this is not a coherent way of asserting that we can control the beating of our own heart.
Take the breath as an example. It may be possible to take control of our own breathing for a time, but while we are doing so our breathing becomes a forced, contrived process and not a natural, of-itself-so process. Eventually we are forced to relinquish our control over our breathing, at which point it immediately returns to its normal rhythm. Thoughts and feelings are like this. Exerting control over them has nothing whatever to do with being our original self.
>> And what do you mean there is no use in tampering with your consciousness? Your on a website dedicated to doing just that with the use of drugs.
There is a difference between experimenting with different states of consciousness utilizing psychoactive drugs and attempting to change or impose something on top of the nature of consciousness itself. While the former may be useful for certain people at certain stages in their mental or spiritual development, the latter is totally futile.
>> magination is fantasy so your point is null.
Granted, the word "imagination" was a poor selection. Perhaps "wonderment", or "marvel" would have been better choices. This need not distract from the meaning of its containing paragraph, however.
--------------------
Edited by Ped (11/30/11 02:26 AM)
|
The Influence
I make it do what it do
Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 4,387
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: Ped]
#15443006 - 11/30/11 02:50 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Your analogies make no sense. A tree can obviously not observe itself, but we can observe what we are and what is going on around us. Meditation has been proven and linked to changes in metabolism, brain activation, blood pressure and many other bodily processes. It has been proven to reduce or eliminate depression, stress, and physical pain.
Again another example of how your analogies make no sense; you compare the ability to control thoughts to breathing. But the contrast you use is irrelevant to what meditation does. Yes you cannot stop breathing just by thinking of it, nor can you completely stop thoughts. But you can both control your breathing and control your thoughts. I control my emotions. For example I used to be a very jealous guy. I didn't know why when I really sat and thought about it, it was programmed into me. So when I thought about it, I realized how silly it was and now I am not jealous anymore these days. This did not happen over night but through telling myself when these feelings would arise that they were pointless and no good would come from them.
There are many kinds of meditation and all have there place. By the way sitting and focusing on something is considered meditation and is just what you advised the OP to do. It would not help him with his physical ailment but other forms of meditation can.
--------------------
Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced
|
The Influence
I make it do what it do
Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 4,387
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
|
|
Ped-
Also as humans we have a lot of behaviors, thoughts, emotions that are self-destructive. A lot of them that we don't understand or even realize. Meditating can help realize these behaviors, and once you realize you can begin to work on changing them.
--------------------
Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced
|
bigmike7104
Stranger
Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA 
|
|
Mindfulness Meditation Training Changes Brain Structure in Eight Weeks
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110121144007.htm
Demystifying Meditation: Brain Imaging Illustrates How Meditation Reduces Pain
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110405174835.htm
Meditation May Help the Brain 'Turn Down the Volume' On Distractions
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110421122337.htm
there are many other studies showing it's benefits too if you search meditation studies in google
--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
|
Ped
Circumspect
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 2,315
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 40 minutes, 21 seconds
|
|
>> A tree can obviously not observe itself, but we can observe what we are and what is going on around us.
We are already observing what we are and what is going on around us, whether it is realized or not. Trying to realize this by deliberately observing what is going on around us and calling it "meditation" is functionally redundant, like turning the key in your ignition while the engine is already running. It's really bad for your car to do that, and it is really bad for your mind to pick up meditation. It might feel like we're really accomplishing something with it, and people might even publish all sorts of official-sounding studies about it in prestigious medical journals, but all that is just the wailing, grinding sound of the starter.
The studies showing the benefits of meditation are like dogs defecating and spraying pee all over an otherwise beautiful yard.
>> Meditation has been proven and linked to changes in metabolism, brain activation, blood pressure and many other bodily processes. It has been proven to reduce or eliminate depression, stress, and physical pain.
We grow old, our friends and family begin to die around us, we become very lonely, our memory and cognition deteriorates, our body begins to fail, we experience physical pain, and then finally our bodily processes stop altogether.
>> But you can both control your breathing and control your thoughts.
It is easy to control your own breathing, but invariably you are forced to relinquish that control. It is somewhat more difficult to control your thoughts, but equally you are forced to relinquish that control. Thoughts happen of themselves. Habituated thought patterns do not arise because you decided to practice them one day, and equally they will not dissipate because you decide to stop practicing them another day. Habituated thought patterns arise and dissipate by themselves. Afflictive emotional states arise and dissipate by themselves. This is part of the continuum of change that is your experience. It is useless to try to guide or direct these processes, just as it is useless to walk up a down escalator. Sure, it might feel like that's really getting us somewhere--we can count each step, and feel it in our legs--but actually it's only something that crazy people do.
>> I control my emotions. For example I used to be a very jealous guy. I didn't know why when I really sat and thought about it, it was programmed into me. So when I thought about it, I realized how silly it was and now I am not jealous anymore these days. This did not happen over night but through telling myself when these feelings would arise that they were pointless and no good would come from them.
It is good that you have been disentangled from jealousy to some extent.
It might seem like you did this by way of your effort and volition, but actually it happened by itself. One day it was snowing. Then it stopped snowing. In fact, this notion that you subdued your jealous feelings by way of your effort and volition is part of a mental climate that makes it all the more likely for it to snow again. This is why picking up meditation is so harmful. It tricks you into thinking you've done real spiritual or psychological growth. There is no real spiritual or psychological growth, and for as long as such perceptions are carried around all of our perceived progress is perpetually on the verge of collapse. What a dreadful thing to experience.
>> There are many kinds of meditation and all have there place. By the way sitting and focusing on something is considered meditation and is just what you advised the OP to do.
Sitting quietly is sitting quietly. Meditation is a parody of sitting quietly.
>> Also as humans we have a lot of behaviors, thoughts, emotions that are self-destructive. A lot of them that we don't understand or even realize. Meditating can help realize these behaviors, and once you realize you can begin to work on changing them.
Who has self-destructive behaviours, thoughts, and emotions? Who doesn't realize them? And then, who changes them? The river flows over and around the boulders.
--------------------
|
The Influence
I make it do what it do
Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 4,387
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: Ped] 1
#15443938 - 11/30/11 11:01 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Im sorry man I can't keep going on with this discussion. You make no sense what so ever. Dog's defecating in yards? The river flows around the boulders? Turning the key in a car that is already running? None of these analogies are in the least bit relevant to humans meditating. No disrespect meant towards you man, I have put the facts of meditation out there, another member posted links to studies proving meditations effectiveness, and you have stated not to meditate. He can decide for himself if it is for him.
--------------------
Bad: Waking up to find a penis has been drawn on your face. Worse: Finding out it was traced
|
Ped
Circumspect
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 2,315
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 40 minutes, 21 seconds
|
|
There was once a man who came upon a "stink tree" on his property. Looking up to its tangle of leaves and branches, his first impression was, "This tree is truly ugly. The leaves look like they have blight and the thing bears no fruit at all." He considered for a moment whether he might be able to cut the tree down and use it for building material. But as he scanned the branches he could not find a length of limb that wasn’t gnarled and impossibly distorted.
He reached up and plucked down a leaf, tasted it and instantly spat it out. This thing was only good for shade but not even nice enough to sit under. "Useless! Absolutely useless!" he thought as he turned his back on the tree and walked away.
After he’d walked a some distance, he turned for one more look and noticed that this tree, sitting alone on the hill, was by far the largest tree on his land. It had been there long before he was born and would probably be there when his grandchildren were growing old themselves. The man was suddenly struck by seeing that the life of the tree was insured by its uselessness. No carpenter would ever build with it, so no axe was ever brought to it. No one could gain anything from it, so it was allowed to live and thrive and be itself without interference. he realized that uselessness, if thoroughly known, could be very beneficial.
Now imagine some prospectors came on his land and investigated the tree, coming up with many uses for its uselessness. Suppose they published these potential uses in the local newspaper. It would not be long before the tree was cut down, chopped up, and sent away, forgotten by the receding shores of time.
--------------------
|
moi
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 710
Last seen: 5 days, 11 hours
|
|
"Sitting quietly is sitting quietly. Meditation is a parody of sitting quietly. "
i kinda get what you're saying. but why are you denying that sitting still is meditation? just because other people start attaching all kinds of new shit to the idea of just sitting quietly? really?
if you think you are more aware and have something to communicate, why can't you see that people aren't connecting with you? something's off, bro.
Edited by moi (11/30/11 12:57 PM)
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,002
Loc: 
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: moi]
#15444316 - 11/30/11 12:55 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
It seems Ped is just trying to get people to realize true meditation rather than get attached to a stagnant practice, i definitely can connect with what he's babbling
|
moi
Stranger
Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 710
Last seen: 5 days, 11 hours
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: The Chronic] 1
#15444364 - 11/30/11 01:09 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
good for you.
i'm feeling a pain in the ass while talking to this dude, even though i agree a bit. and obviously i'm not the only one feeling like this.
Edited by moi (11/30/11 01:12 PM)
|
Ped
Circumspect
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 2,315
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 40 minutes, 21 seconds
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: moi]
#15444403 - 11/30/11 01:19 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
There are many ways to understand and interpret the things I've said.
Perhaps I am sitting here in my chair waiting for people to respond to me with "Oh thank you Ped, you've opened my eyes. You are so wise, Ped." Perhaps I am attempting to deliberately confuse people so that I can conceive myself as much deeper and more clever than others. If either of these were true--or if either are perceived--then certainly arrogance and disingenuousness would appear in my words.
--------------------
Edited by Ped (11/30/11 01:25 PM)
|
White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,148
Loc: 
Last seen: 1 day, 16 hours
|
Re: Should I try meditation? [Re: Ped]
#15444411 - 11/30/11 01:21 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Meditation was one of the hardest addictions for me to give up. I denied up and down I wasn't addicted.
--------------------
|
|
Images only 
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
