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 Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,819
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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 Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca....  [Re: RourkeAnderson]
#15362623 - 11/13/11 12:45 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RourkeAnderson said:
Poptart, I think you're searching for intricacies that aren't there. It sounds more like you WANT the use of psychedelics to have some negative effect on us. I'm not talking about the tribes that USE the psychedelics, I'm talking about the plants themselves. Have you ever talked to a Brugmansia? The great Toé is the most fatherly and comforting of any in my greenhouse and yet, if one were to misuse it; they would descend into madness and no doubt end up dead or in the hospital. I think that just because someone figured out that a plant or substance has powers, doesn't meant that the interpretation of intention is clear at all.
The peruvian and mayan cultures are very important, but I think you're linking the plants and substances straight to people; which is very wrong (In my opinion). Psychedelics can cause worship in the wrong places sometimes, cyclical thinking can cause an entire cultures to descend into madness but I will never agree that mushrooms or ayahuasca could be the cause of those things.
Quite the opposite actually. The last thing I want to do is realize i've been going down the wrong path for the last couple of years. I want more than anything to believe psychedelics are the anwser but now I'm starting to make connections and I can't really continue to lie to myself anymore. We are playing with fire. No way to get around it. Just because they may provide a spiritual experience doesn't mean it's the type of spiritual experience I should be having. The entities people encounter in a dmt trip are very cunning and decieving.
How do we know we aren't dancing with the devil? I'm being serious here.
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Angel_Above
Nobody
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 4,820
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15362645 - 11/13/11 12:51 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Psychedelics are neither the answer nor the deception.
Those are in the eyes of the beholder...
they are a tool, a catalyst for exploration.
I've had the negative "epiphany" that taking psychedelics means my afterlife will be filled with demons and the Devil simply because I took them.
But then I've had experiences of unimaginable bliss.
Duality is in the eyes of the beholder. You don't blame a gun for killing people, you blame the people using the gun. And rightly so?
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metall
storm tripper
Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 860
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15362646 - 11/13/11 12:51 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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drugs don't havea bad side how u interpert them does
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FUCK OFF FEDS PEOPLE NEED THEIR MEDS
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Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,819
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Angel_Above]
#15362694 - 11/13/11 01:09 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said:
Psychedelics are neither the answer nor the deception.
Those are in the eyes of the beholder...
they are a tool, a catalyst for exploration.
I've had the negative "epiphany" that taking psychedelics means my afterlife will be filled with demons and the Devil simply because I took them.
But then I've had experiences of unimaginable bliss.
Duality is in the eyes of the beholder. You don't blame a gun for killing people, you blame the people using the gun. And rightly so?
I know I've said the exact same thing to myself and others...
They are just a tool, a catalyst, but really it's basically witchcraft
I can't deny it anymore we are playing around with stuff we really shouldn't be. I kept twisting the truth in my mind trying to justify my use. But I can't anymore.
Satan is traditionally identified as the serpent who convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit; thus, Satan has often been depicted as a serpent.
The Book of Revelation twice refers to "the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan," (12:9, 20:2). The Book of Revelation also refers to "the deceiver," from which is derived the common epithet "the great deceiver."[24]
The spirit of ayahuasca is a snake. How could I not see this before?
Edited by Poptart (11/15/11 04:16 AM)
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Angel_Above
Nobody
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15362731 - 11/13/11 01:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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That's one religion, of MANY. How could you not see THAT?
There are about as many religions that have an intense reverence for the snake as those opposed to it. A coin can't exist without two heads.
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usulpsychonaut
Hungry Ghost
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1,573
Loc: Northland, New Zealand. 
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15362771 - 11/13/11 01:33 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poptart said:
Quote:
Angel_Above said:
Psychedelics are neither the answer nor the deception.
Those are in the eyes of the beholder...
they are a tool, a catalyst for exploration.
I've had the negative "epiphany" that taking psychedelics means my afterlife will be filled with demons and the Devil simply because I took them.
But then I've had experiences of unimaginable bliss.
Duality is in the eyes of the beholder. You don't blame a gun for killing people, you blame the people using the gun. And rightly so?
I know I've said the exact same thing to myself and others...
They are just a tool, a catalyst, Its basically witchcraft
I really can't deny it anymore we are playing around with stuff we really shouldn't be. I kept twisting the truth in my mind trying to justify my use. But I can't anymore.
Satan is traditionally identified as the serpent who convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit; thus, Satan has often been depicted as a serpent.
The Book of Revelation twice refers to "the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan," (12:9, 20:2). The Book of Revelation also refers to "the deceiver," from which is derived the common epithet "the great deceiver."[24]
The spirit of ayahuasca is a snake. How could I not see this before?
Wow, if I take psychedelics then the devil will own my soul and cast me into hell! damn I need to repent.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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 Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15363712 - 11/13/11 10:21 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poptart said:
But if you study aztec and mayan culture it's very obvious psychedelics like ayahuasca and mushrooms were central to their culture.
So what? This doesn't necessarily mean that psychedelics caused them to perform ritual human sacrifices.
Quote:
Poptart said:
They were well known for sacrifices. So how can we still use psychedelics and beleive we are making contact with benevolent entities? I think we are being decieved.
I don't think the entities that people encounter while on hallucinogenic drugs are anything more than, well, hallucinations.
It's possible that the Aztecs/Mayans interpreted their experiences on hallucinogens as being evidence for the existence of an afterlife; a strong conviction in such a belief could potentially cause people to not see ritual human sacrifice as an unacceptable thing.
Quote:
Poptart said:
Maybe these drugs arn't such a good thing.
Maybe they weren't such a good thing for the Aztecs/Mayans, but I think we are much more intelligent than they were. Not many people today have such a strong conviction in the belief of an afterlife that they see ritual human sacrifice as an acceptable thing; lots of people believe in heaven or whatever, but their belief doesn't appear to be very strong because a) they are still seemingly afraid of death, regardless of their belief in an after-life paradise, and b) they mourn the death of their loved ones, even though they believe that their loved ones are going to a "better place". The Aztecs/Mayans, however, believed in the existence of an afterlife with such conviction that human sacrifice was not seen as a big deal.
It's possible that their strong belief in the existence of an afterlife was not connected to their hallucinogenic drug use, just as it is possible that their practice of ritual human sacrifice was not connected to their hallucinogenic drug use; we can easily blame the ritual human sacrifices on their belief in an afterlife, but we can't easily blame the said sacrifices on their use of hallucinogenic drugs.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (11/13/11 10:40 AM)
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Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
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Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Angel_Above]
#15363963 - 11/13/11 12:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said:
That's one religion, of MANY. How could you not see THAT?
There are about as many religions that have an intense reverence for the snake as those opposed to it. A coin can't exist without two heads.
right I guess it was kind of stupid of me to not see it earlier. Maybe you all already came to grips with it. But I can't really continue to use psychedelics and still pretend to be a christian at this point. I also can't keep pretending there is no spiritual side to reality anymore. I've had to many strange experiences to deny it now. So now I am caught in a bind of what to do with myself.
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usulpsychonaut
Hungry Ghost
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1,573
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15364586 - 11/13/11 02:47 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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We are all descendant's of cannibal, ritual human sacrificing superstitious maniacs.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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Angel_Above
Nobody
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 4,820
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15365611 - 11/13/11 06:32 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poptart said:
Quote:
Angel_Above said:
That's one religion, of MANY. How could you not see THAT?
There are about as many religions that have an intense reverence for the snake as those opposed to it. A coin can't exist without two heads.
right I guess it was kind of stupid of me to not see it earlier. Maybe you all already came to grips with it. But I can't really continue to use psychedelics and still pretend to be a christian at this point. I also can't keep pretending there is no spiritual side to reality anymore. I've had to many strange experiences to deny it now. So now I am caught in a bind of what to do with myself.
Honestly, change your perception and what you perceive will change (this is what I discovered in my own life)
Why do you NEED to label yourself as a Christian, and thus refrain from using psychedelics?
Lemme ask you something... would Jesus Christ follow himself?
Personally, I feel he was a Jewish rabbi and he followed his religion very closely.
there was no "christianity" while he was around.
I don't like labeling or definining, because right then and there with the "defining," I discover that it is my mind trying to conceptualize aspects of awareness, but to define is to separate the experience of objects as "this" and "that."
Separation is what causes me much suffering, or at least this illusion of separateness.
Reminds me of "The moon is like your mind. and you are similar to the sun. The moon has no light of it's own, but it appears to. It merely reflects the light that sun gives it." - Mooji
not sure why.
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Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,819
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Angel_Above]
#15372702 - 11/15/11 04:06 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said:
Quote:
Poptart said:
Quote:
Angel_Above said:
That's one religion, of MANY. How could you not see THAT?
There are about as many religions that have an intense reverence for the snake as those opposed to it. A coin can't exist without two heads.
right I guess it was kind of stupid of me to not see it earlier. Maybe you all already came to grips with it. But I can't really continue to use psychedelics and still pretend to be a christian at this point. I also can't keep pretending there is no spiritual side to reality anymore. I've had to many strange experiences to deny it now. So now I am caught in a bind of what to do with myself.
Honestly, change your perception and what you perceive will change (this is what I discovered in my own life)
Why do you NEED to label yourself as a Christian, and thus refrain from using psychedelics?
Lemme ask you something... would Jesus Christ follow himself?
Personally, I feel he was a Jewish rabbi and he followed his religion very closely.
there was no "christianity" while he was around.
I don't like labeling or definining, because right then and there with the "defining," I discover that it is my mind trying to conceptualize aspects of awareness, but to define is to separate the experience of objects as "this" and "that."
Separation is what causes me much suffering, or at least this illusion of separateness.
Reminds me of "The moon is like your mind. and you are similar to the sun. The moon has no light of it's own, but it appears to. It merely reflects the light that sun gives it." - Mooji
not sure why.
Im not here to lecture you because I am/was just like you but I'm personally deciding to put these things aside. I'm not judging any of you for your choice. It's your free will. Funny that you mention the sun and moon in your quote. It's exactly what has been on my mind lately. I recently came to the realization that I was worshiping nature Gia/Baal instead of God.
http://jeremyberg.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/mountain-god-5-facing-idols/
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Angel_Above
Nobody
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15373828 - 11/15/11 01:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Ah well I hope whatever path you do take brings you joy/peace/happiness and doesn't cause you to feel regret/fear/anguish/threatened.
Go ahead, put them aside, chances are you will be back. Or if you make a completely Christian transformation, maybe you won't. Pick the definition you wanna label yourself as I guess. Tripper or Christian.
Peace be with you 
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Luueschen
perched
Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 4 months, 24 days
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Angel_Above]
#15376687 - 11/15/11 11:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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not all mushroom practitioners engage in sacrifice, you know...unless, of course, the tides were such that the aztec societies were left with no other option.
I mean, what pumps up a crowd of people like watching someone's heart get ripped out while everyone around you is frying on teonanacatl?
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shadowplay
Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1,337
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Luueschen]
#15377716 - 11/16/11 05:13 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I read one article saying that the aztecs corn based diet would was lacking in nutrients and would have caused an imbalance in their brain chemistry, causing them to be aggressive. I'm sure their were many factors having nothing to do with their drug habits that led to their brutal rituals.
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Luueschen
perched
Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 4 months, 24 days
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: shadowplay]
#15381688 - 11/17/11 12:03 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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no beef = sacrifice? i dunno chief
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BirdsIView
Mr. Helms
Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 722
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Luueschen]
#15382036 - 11/17/11 01:40 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Why does sacrifice have to be deemed a bad thing? To them it was a way in which to honor their gods and I believe the mushrooms (can't say for ayahuasca, haven't partaken) influenced this behavior by killing the ego and thereby reducing any fears of death. I'd guess that the mushrooms came before the rituals and were the main cause for their creation in the first place. That to me doesn't say anything bad about mushrooms, in fact I see it as a positive. The loss of ego and fear is the main reason I use them.
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shadowplay
Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1,337
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: BirdsIView]
#15382091 - 11/17/11 01:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Luueschen said:
no beef = sacrifice? i dunno chief
I didn't say that. I'm a vegetarian, and I don't get urges to sacrifice people. But my diet isn't made mostly of corn, so I can it's like for people who's diet is. Like I said, there were obviously a lot of different factors involved in their practices.
Quote:
BirdsIView said:
Why does sacrifice have to be deemed a bad thing? To them it was a way in which to honor their gods and I believe the mushrooms (can't say for ayahuasca, haven't partaken) influenced this behavior by killing the ego and thereby reducing any fears of death. I'd guess that the mushrooms came before the rituals and were the main cause for their creation in the first place. That to me doesn't say anything bad about mushrooms, in fact I see it as a positive. The loss of ego and fear is the main reason I use them.
You have a good point.
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Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,819
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: shadowplay]
#15384921 - 11/17/11 05:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shadowplay said:
I read one article saying that the aztecs corn based diet would was lacking in nutrients and would have caused an imbalance in their brain chemistry, causing them to be aggressive. I'm sure their were many factors having nothing to do with their drug habits that led to their brutal rituals.
 
I'm sorry but that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my entire life...
They performed mass sacrifices because they wern't getting enough protein? Really? that's the best theory you could come up with?
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Comcouveflor
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 339
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15384949 - 11/17/11 05:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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They came out on top of the pyramid and they brought out the magic mushrooms 
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Sham87
Roll Away The Dew
Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 2,986
Loc: Pacific Coast
Last seen: 34 minutes, 37 seconds
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Re: The mayans and aztecs used mushrooms and ayahuasca.... [Re: Poptart]
#15385153 - 11/17/11 06:51 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Luueschen said:
I mean, what pumps up a crowd of people like watching someone's heart get ripped out while everyone around you is frying on teonanacatl?
Quote:
Poptart said:
I know I've said the exact same thing to myself and others...
They are just a tool, a catalyst, but really it's basically witchcraft
I can't deny it anymore we are playing around with stuff we really shouldn't be. I kept twisting the truth in my mind trying to justify my use. But I can't anymore.
Satan is traditionally identified as the serpent who convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit; thus, Satan has often been depicted as a serpent.
The Book of Revelation twice refers to "the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan," (12:9, 20:2). The Book of Revelation also refers to "the deceiver," from which is derived the common epithet "the great deceiver."[24]
The spirit of ayahuasca is a snake. How could I not see this before?
Maybe it's you who is playing with fire. I am sure most of us here know what we are getting ourselves into...
--------------------
Now I Am Lost.  
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