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 zzripz
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 The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery 
#15190817 - 10/07/11 11:35 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I like the Shroomey forums, they are quite fluent--a mix of fun and serious conversation, BUT what I am concerned about is when certain moderators flout the rules of the forum/thread, which will include provokation, trolling, changing the subject, generally annoying irrelevant points which the one being argued against feels they then have to spend time trying to argue against, and so on, and they get away with this behaviour, yet send threatening warnings to those whose worldviews they are arguing with, and in lots of cases ban people, with the extra warning attached that their behaviour is being monitored and if they continue with--what they mod is accusing you off--then this can fetch a lifetime ban.
Like I say I feel this is totally unfair, and not only does it stifle free sharing of ideas, it is oppressive, and STIFLES debate because people soon click that the rules only seem to apply to members and not the mods who pounce on worldviews they try and demolish, using tactics which are disrespectful and provocative to the member.
not ONE moderator have I seen warned about THEIR behaviour, nor banned. So their power trip must be immense. So I am protesting against this.
Can someone define what a moderator's role IS at forums please---generally:
I have found this: The real purpose of forum moderators revealed
Quote:
As I have said before, you must never repress your community. You must ensure that you moderate your forum effectively – this means adopting a laissez-faire approach and allowing your members a large amount of freedom. If you or your moderators crack down on members the second they step out of line, you will be sending a negative signal to your community that free speech is not tolerated on your site. You will make people nervous and discourage them from getting involved – hardly the ingredients for a successful community!
Forum moderators should promote interaction
The primary role of a forum moderator should be to promote interaction. A forum moderator should be posting new threads and adding new content to the site. They should be helping out members with their queries and they should be keeping threads alive by asking questions.
I am not saying that forum moderators shouldn’t be allowed to delete or lock threads that are inappropriate – of course this should be one of their roles. What I am saying is this should never be their primary role.
When you take on forum moderators you need to make it clear exactly what you expect from them. Most moderators see themselves as forum police officers and will only edit/delete/lock content without creating any themselves. This is a mistake – make sure your moderators know that their primary role is to encourage interaction, to encourage member involvement, and to encourage a sense of community within your forum.
Your moderators
Do you have moderators on your forum? Have you made their role clear to them? Have you advised them that their primary role should be to create content and encourage member interaction? Share your thoughts and opinions by leaving a comment below. http://www.communityspark.com/the-real-purpose-of-forum-moderators-revealed/
I also must add that when mods are very active actually joining in debate, and do not share the same worldview as those they argue against, then it is very easy for them to abuse their power--of being able to warn, and ban, and pick fights, and tell people their conduct is not becoming.
So I really feel that the Shroomery needs to take this into consderation so as to help grow a FRUITFUL community, not one with people friegthened to voice their opinin and show some passion--as long as it doesn't get TOO abusive, and escpecially when a reaction is being provoked by a moderator.
And also to appoint an Adjudicator so that if there is an unfair power balance going on, then this independent person can look at what has happened, rather than a moderator who hate anothers point of view can have the power to slience them, and thus threaten others not to voice anything that contradcits their in-house worldview too much.
Thoughts?
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 luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,804
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz] 3
#15190833 - 10/07/11 11:39 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Thoughts?
It's their site. They are not here to satisfy you personally, but the majority. After of course, they satisfy themselves.
They aren't going to spank a mod in public. Expecting them to is foolish.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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greys
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz] 2
#15190993 - 10/07/11 12:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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That definition of a moderator is kind of trite.
The fact of the matter is, this place needs Hall Monitors.
With few exceptions the moderators here are fair and good.
If you don't like the moderation system here, go over to Mycotopia.
This thread reeks of butt hurt. 
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zzripz
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: greys]
#15191347 - 10/07/11 01:56 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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OMG what rebellious company I doth keep----NOT!
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zzripz
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15191465 - 10/07/11 02:31 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Can someone tell me who owns the Shroomery. I suppose my only option is to find this out, tell them what I feel is going on, and try and reason with them.
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greys
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15191635 - 10/07/11 03:07 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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 Its Ythan.
run your little idea up the flagpole and see who salutes mister.
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zzripz
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: greys]
#15191954 - 10/07/11 04:25 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I am waiting to speak to an adult about this.
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 cherokee
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15192149 - 10/07/11 05:12 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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ythan is training me for the position so I can take office as soon as the moderator union agreement is negotiated
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Ythan
٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶
Registered: 08/08/97
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Loc: NY/MA/VT Border, USA
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz] 9
#15192233 - 10/07/11 05:30 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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zzripz, I understand your position but let me just give it to you straight. Our moderators are all volunteers. They do not receive any sort of compensation whatsoever. They deserve to, but we simply do not have the income as a site to adequately pay them for the work they do. So our bargaining position when it comes to recruiting (or disciplining) mods is relatively weak. Consider these factors:
Mods don't make money
They have to do a whole bunch of work behind the scenes that most members don't even realize (especially in the busy forums)
When participating on the board they are generally held to a higher standard, both by our members and the rest of the staff
People are always pissed at them for enforcing the rules (even though that's why they're here and it's necessary)
To be a mod they must have a track record of strong character and excellent judgement on the site
They can't ask to be mods, or have ever shown any evidence that they're "power-hungry"
They have to have good communication skills, maturity, availability, and the full support of the existing staff
Given these strict criteria and the shameful lack of compensation our mods receive, I am frankly astonished and thrilled that we have managed to recruit such a thoughtful, professional and unified team. And, I am also inclined to let the occasional 'human moment' or lapse in judgement slide, because we just don't have a huge pool of satisfactory candidates and I cherish the ones we've already managed to find.
When people have a dispute with a moderator (which is not at all uncommon), I always tell them the same thing. This person was brought on to the staff because we trust them to be fair, professional, and rational. You should be able to get in touch with them in private, discuss the situation calmly and respectfully, and reach a satisfactory conclusion or at least a mutual understanding. If this step fails, consider whether the problem is actually the mod, or if you might actually be out of line. Then if you still feel there is a great injustice taking place, you can always open a support ticket and provide a copy of all relevant correspondence for an admin to review. We certainly won't overlook genuine recurring problems, and we have overturned decisions and even de-modded people in the past, although it's much more common for mods to resign due to the stress and burdens of the position.
I hope that makes sense... there's nothing wrong with your idea, but due to the unique factors I mentioned above I'm not sure it would really work for this site.
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zzripz
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Ythan] 1
#15194620 - 10/08/11 04:35 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Hello Ythan, at last someone who is taking what I am suggesting here seriously. I am sure the mods here do do a good job, I have had no problems whatsoever with other mods, such as Cosmonaut who I find is very interesting and even though he posts, he contributes interesting ideas, and does not try and interrogate other member, or intimidate them, or dictate the rules whilst flouting them.
But the two moderators I --and others--have had the most problems with are called prisoner, and John234. If as you say the mods here do a lot of offline work, then all I can say is that these two never seem to ever stop posting in threads, and interrogating members whose worldviews are different from their own. They seem to work in tandem. So for example,and I will link you to a very good example of this below, prisoner will hound a person, using all forms of warped logic and requests for evidence, whilst at the same time being very provocative and inciting an emotional response, and later or at same time John234 comes in and warns people that they aren't conducting their argument in a logical way, and that they have previously been 'corrected' about this ---etc etc. It is INTIMIDATION, bullying, and what this kind of mod-input does to the forum vibe is it frightens away any community sharing of ideas, because these two are basically policing the joint!! Do you want a forum like that---? Especially a forum supposedly to do with psychedelics which expand consciousness.
The other day I found this very interesting thread where the OP markst is contributing information to this forum about one of the most important UFO contact events which took place in a school in Zimbabwe. This is a fascinating subject, and there should be ENCOURAGEMENT for other members to come and join in this thread, and offer views and so on. Of course I am not saying there wont be alternative views, but what has happened which seems to be the same old thing I am familiar with now, is prisoner is hounding markst with ridiculous argument, and then John234 adds his oppressive company to the proceedings. And bear in mind that already previously someone had reported markst, and he received a ban warning. So this means he is 'surrounded' by two mods who are doing EXACTLY what markst was charged with, and yet the power balance is not even. See? they are not only haranguing him, but also have the wherewith all to send out warnings and to ban. And remember that affixed to every warning and ban is that your conduct is being taken into account, and if seen fit you will be banned for ever. Now, Ythan, do you see this situation as fair?
All I ask you is, as I am sure your a sensible human being, please just take time to look at the thread, and tell us what you think?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15170340/fpart/1/vc/1
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,557
Loc: Americas
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15194778 - 10/08/11 07:08 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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From my perspective, it seems like you object to my posts as a 'regular user', rather than as a moderator. (I don't moderate the Conspiracies and Coverups forum unless I catch something or get a notification while the forum moderators aren't online)
Unless I'm warning someone about the rules or otherwise acting as a moderator, you have no need to consider my posts any more than any other user- take them or leave them. The flip side to that is I get to use the forums as any other user might.
I recall you calling me names a few times, but I don't think you've ever sent me a private message or made a serious attempt to articulate whatever issues you might have with me, so that might be a reasonable step. If you want to discuss those issues in a public forum you may use my journal for that purpose.
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Dystopia
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz] 2
#15194807 - 10/08/11 07:35 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I like rock candy, especially the blue kind.
Edited by Dystopia (10/23/11 02:20 PM)
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Stonehenge
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15196195 - 10/08/11 04:00 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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zzripz, i know what you are talking about. Some mods take sides in an argument and then give warnings for the slightest excuse. Not all, most mods are fine. However the admins do not want to take sides against a mod because they are all on the same side and we are on the other side. All you can do is try to avoid the ones you have trouble with. My suggestion is to bring grievances public but i don't think that is allowed either. Oh well, the shroomery is a great place even if it isn't perfect.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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johnm214
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Posts: 16,557
Loc: Americas
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15196676 - 10/08/11 05:58 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
My suggestion is to bring grievances public but i don't think that is allowed either.
Actually, as I said above, you can say whatever you want about me in my journal, and can even call in all your buddies and make a ruckus.  The purpose of that thread is for public feedback, so have at it. As long as you don't spam copy pasted nonsense or anything, you can publicly express your opinion without worrying about breaking the rules or being off topic, et cet.
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Stonehenge
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Dystopia]
#15200655 - 10/09/11 04:07 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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John, we buried the hatchet, far as i know. I see no reason to dig up past things at this time. I was just talking to zzripz trying to defuse the situation a little bit. When i said i didn't know if we were allowed to air grievances in public, i meant in a public thread. Few read personal blog posts. I don't think flogging anyone over alleged mistreatment is a good thing neither is flogging those who complain. And we know who have the real flogging tools and who can just complain.
Admins could fill the role of adjudicator very well. However, there is the us vs them mentality that creeps in. It's hard for them to be neutral. Perhaps a member could be named ombudsman without mod or admin powers just to look over those things and give a third party opinion? The admins could accept or reject thee ombudsman's recommendations but at least it would involve an unbiased third party. Or even 3 ombudsmen to give a majority opinion and if one was involved in the thread they should sit out.
For that matter, perhaps a rule that when a mod was involved in a thread even for one post, they must bring in an admin to give out warnings or punishments? Warnings themselves are a form of punishment because mods go back and say "he had a warning last year so throw the book at him!!"
Someone having a cool head who is not part of the situation will make a big difference. People will accept the opinion of someone they have no problem with who came in, looked it over and made a decision. I've been mod or admin in other forums and still am. All i'm saying is it's a lot better if someone not involved hands out the warning or whatever. He/she might give an unofficial warning instead of one on the record or try to defuse the situation. I'm just tossing out ideas that have worked in the past. What say you, zzripz? You started this thread.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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dshow
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Dystopia]
#15201301 - 10/09/11 06:11 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dystopia said:
For the record, Kid_Orgo needs to be dethroned.
here here.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,557
Loc: Americas
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15201317 - 10/09/11 06:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah man, I have no problem with you or anything, was just pointing out that if zzripz wants to have a public discussion rather than sending me a PM, that he has that option
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dshow
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: johnm214]
#15201358 - 10/09/11 06:18 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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What do you do when the mod says take it up with the others??
He doesnt want a confrontation or questioning of his reasons.
Kid_orgo
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Tri High
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Ythan]
#15203619 - 10/10/11 03:44 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Make it so mods can't post in their own forums, unless it's to close a thread or offer the rules (1-2 times per user per forum).
I think that would be good. I support Zzripz's analysis.
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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
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PatrickKn
Do Easy
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Tri High] 2
#15203834 - 10/10/11 05:45 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tri High said:
Make it so mods can't post in their own forums, unless it's to close a thread or offer the rules (1-2 times per user per forum).
That's ridiculous. They would never read them if they couldn't post in them.
I think the mods here are pretty fair.
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cherokee
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15204487 - 10/10/11 11:34 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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i used to not get a long with pris...then I stopped being a jackass
pris is solid
good person all the way through
and extremely knowledgeable and helpful with just about everything
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15204874 - 10/10/11 01:19 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I totally see where you're coming from, but shroomery is a big site, one full of junkies. Surprisingly, people that take drugs aren't the most sympathetic of sorts, and everyone is locked into their own view on reality.
Whilst I certainly enjoy reading your posts Zzripz, I don't bother arguing anymore. Just lay your cards out, and disregard anyone that says "prove that's an ace of spades." when you have an ace of spades. Metaphorically speaking.
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Wiccan_Seeker said:
slide down a pole than with your legs spread and using your pussy as a brake. Ask the fire department 
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Stonehenge
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Visionary Tools]
#15205659 - 10/10/11 04:25 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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If ombudsmen were set up, they could at least hear complaints from members who felt wronged such as zzripz. They would have no actual power under my plan but they would be an unbiased third party. They could suggest compromises to the mod and member(s) involved. If that didn't work they could make a recommendation to the admins who could go along with it or uphold the mod's position. If the ombudsmen voted to uphold the mod then that would be it unless the member wanted to appeal.
The advantage of this is it would give an outlet for those who think they were unfairly treated. And if a jury of their peers, so to speak, said they were wrong, then they might accept that. If the admins see the system is taking care of most complaints and they don't have to get involved, it takes some burden off them. If something was appealed to the admins, they could look over the points and arguments made and make an informed decision without the members thinking they always stick up for the mods.
It brings transparency and openness into the system. I would say at least 3 members perhaps 5 on the ombudsman group or whatever you want to call it and a majority rules as far as their decision goes. Why not give it a try?
Mods should be able to post in their own forums, i was just suggesting that if they were in a dispute with a member, it would be better if another mod or admin who was not involved handed out any punishment. We are all human and people get their feelings hurt or just get mad and want to lash out. If a mod was not involved in the argument then he/she would be a neutral party. So if pris was mad at someone he had words with, instead of giving them a ban or whatever, he would go to another mod and if that mod agreed, he, not the mod in the middle of the dispute would give the ban or warning. The member could go to the adjudicator or whatever we call it group if he/she felt unfairly dealt with. It gives avenues for appeal and time for people to cool off. Sort of like the justice system. A cop does not give the punishment and you can appeal.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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cherokee
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15205753 - 10/10/11 04:49 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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this is a privately owned website not a public municipality
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Tri High
Whigro
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: cherokee]
#15206495 - 10/10/11 07:32 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Ban Prisoner1 2011!
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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
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cherokee
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Tri High]
#15206699 - 10/10/11 08:08 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tri High said:
Ban Prisoner1 2011!
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PatrickKn
Do Easy
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: cherokee]
#15208097 - 10/11/11 03:28 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
cherokee said:
this is a privately owned website not a public municipality
^This. If everyone payed taxes to the website, then maybe. But that is not the case.
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Stonehenge
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: PatrickKn]
#15208870 - 10/11/11 11:22 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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What has paying taxes or being a municipality have to do with it? I realize no one has any rights here. This would give members a chance to blow off steam to a group set up to hear it. Could have a complaint forum and mods could move any such posts over there.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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anunnakian
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 12,741
Loc: State of Jefferson
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15209031 - 10/11/11 12:09 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
If ombudsmen were set up, they could at least hear complaints from members who felt wronged such as zzripz. They would have no actual power under my plan but they would be an unbiased third party. They could suggest compromises to the mod and member(s) involved. If that didn't work they could make a recommendation to the admins who could go along with it or uphold the mod's position. If the ombudsmen voted to uphold the mod then that would be it unless the member wanted to appeal.
Who would appoint these ombudsmen? Admins, the same people you who give out mod positions.
I have a feeling the people elected would be the same people that would be put up for a mod position in some time in the future. If it was not, where would these people be elected from. If elected by the community then it would just be a popularity contest and bias would remain a big part of that and turn into a big pissing match.
Also a complaint forum, do you think a bunch of powerless ombudsmen really want to sit around and sort through all the BS complaints people have. A forum for it would also just be flooded with people pissed off because they can't follow the rules and one more of their threads have been locked or some other petty "injustice" served to them. No site needs a dirty laundry forum.
It would never work the way you think it could. More layers of bureaucracy has never solved anything.
If you have a problem with a mod put in a support ticket.
I am sure if it is a valid complaint it will be addressed, if not, well it's kind of the nature of the beast.
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Stonehenge
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: anunnakian]
#15209744 - 10/11/11 02:56 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Anun, you have some very good points. It seems you are worried for one thing that these people would be biased toward management if they were picked by admins. And you say they would be overrun with petty complaints. That is the reason for it, or one of them. I don't really think there would be more complaints than usual. One of the ombudsmen might say the mod was right and if the others agreed there would be no need for a vote. People could chime in and might agree with the mod too, just like here in this thread.
If they always agreed with the mod even when other members supported the complaint, people would lose faith in it but i doubt that would happen. It might. One possible remedy is if the members thought one was ass kissing too much they could start a referendum and if a majority of members who voted voted against them, they would be replaced by someone else.
I think the main benefit would be that the complainer could get feedback from not only the select group but also from other members. Their grievance would be aired and the mods/ admin would not have to constantly deal with it. If a member seemed to often give good advice, he/she might be picked for any openings when an ombudsman had enough.
Often there can be a compromise. A member wants his post reinstated, his suspension lifted, etc. They might say this is what was wrong with the post, just repost it. They might suggest a ban be lifted if the person seemed to show a good attitude. If they are banned they can still pm i think. Or else email.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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drSE
Pseudo Reality
Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 4,341
Loc: Twighlight Zone
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15210631 - 10/11/11 06:36 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
If ombudsmen were set up, they could at least hear complaints from members who felt wronged such as zzripz. They would have no actual power under my plan but they would be an unbiased third party. They could suggest compromises to the mod and member(s) involved. If that didn't work they could make a recommendation to the admins who could go along with it or uphold the mod's position. If the ombudsmen voted to uphold the mod then that would be it unless the member wanted to appeal.
now really, who would want the customer service position at Wal-Mart and not get paid/rewarded for it.
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 Grow Room
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Stonehenge
enthusiast
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,768
Loc: S.E.
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: drSE]
#15213477 - 10/12/11 01:42 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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drSE, meet anun. He says people will be too eager to take the job, you say no one will do it. I think anun has a point in that people would see it as a possible stepping stone to becoming a mod. Anyone who has been a mod knows it's just a job. You get a feeling of participation but the thrill wears off fast. Admins have more buttons but its a similar situation. We should thank them for the time they put in maintaining order. Keep in mind that those who express an interest in becoming a mod seldom get the job. There are those who just want to help out. We might have a term of "office" in which people would do it for a period of time and then give others the chance. If there are a lot of eager applicants.
A board of concerned citizens sorting out minor complaints would, i think, go a long ways toward reducing stress levels overall. At any rate, it was interesting to discuss the possibility. If not now, perhaps when the time is right they might give it a try. Just for grins, who would serve on such a board if it was created? Speak up now and you might get picked.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Az0th
quantum transfiguration
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 53,427
Loc: The Void
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz] 1
#15214080 - 10/12/11 03:46 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I think this idea is completely unnecessary and if you have a problem with a particular mod you should talk to that mod about it,
If all else fails, bring it to an admin / open a support ticket.
They are the Adjudicators.
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~Thought Creates Reality~
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Dystopia
unit - [s2dope] - v1.0.13
Registered: 03/24/00
Posts: 15,250
Loc: Danger Zone
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Az0th]
#15224809 - 10/14/11 02:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I like rock candy, especially the blue kind.
Edited by Dystopia (10/23/11 02:20 PM)
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novum
crap game
Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 25,063
Loc: the city of dis
Last seen: 9 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Dystopia]
#15243312 - 10/18/11 05:04 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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death is the only Adjudicator
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,803
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz] 3
#15244362 - 10/18/11 09:37 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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You've deserved every ban I've seen you get. IMO there should have been more. You break forum rules with abandon and then whine when you get called on it. Just be glad I'm not a mod. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,803
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Dystopia] 3
#15244374 - 10/18/11 09:38 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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and opening a ticket will never do anything.
Nonsense. I've had two bans overturned by opening a ticket and making my case.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,188
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 17 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz] 3
#15246594 - 10/19/11 12:27 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Hello Ythan, at last someone who is taking what I am suggesting here seriously.
And you returned the favor by taking what he said to you seriously, right? 
He took time to give you a thoughtful response and encouraged you to send a support ticket if there was a specific problem that couldn't be worked out between yourself and the moderator(s) in question.
You decide to unload it all instead in this forum, which specifically prohibits this type of behavior.
He didn't invite you do so - he told you to send a support ticket.
--------------------
  
 
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Stonehenge
enthusiast
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,768
Loc: S.E.
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Icelander]
#15246654 - 10/19/11 12:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Icelander, if you think he breaks forum rules with abandon, you could bring that up in the complaint forum. I suspect most members would tend to support the mod anyway. Most complaints would be shot down by member feedback before anyone had to take action on it.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,803
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15246687 - 10/19/11 12:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I don't need to bring it up because it was finally taken care of with a ban. Hence this thread.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 3,530
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 3 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15256054 - 10/21/11 11:32 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Icelander, if you think he breaks forum rules with abandon, you could bring that up in the complaint forum. I suspect most members would tend to support the mod anyway. Most complaints would be shot down by member feedback before anyone had to take action on it.
WHY would most members support a mod anyway? Is that because most members are conformists? Dont want to rock the boat? Or because they share same wordviews and feel power rubbing off when thwey see them mods threaten and hit that ban button? Where is your passion for a more fairer system...? feel me?
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,188
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 17 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15256400 - 10/21/11 01:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
WHY would most members support a mod anyway? Is that because most members are conformists? Dont want to rock the boat? Or because they share same wordviews and feel power rubbing off when thwey see them mods threaten and hit that ban button? Where is your passion for a more fairer system...? feel me?
Yeah dude, rock the boat, man, rock the boat on the Shroomery. I honestly am shocked and outraged at the brazen powerlust that glistens down upon us, down upon us from those unrighteous moderators.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Stonehenge
enthusiast
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,768
Loc: S.E.
Last seen: 9 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: fireworks_god]
#15256837 - 10/21/11 03:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
WHY would most members support a mod anyway? Is that because most members are conformists? Dont want to rock the boat? Or because they share same wordviews and feel power rubbing off when thwey see them mods threaten and hit that ban button? Where is your passion for a more fairer system...? feel me?
Because most people are conformist and hope to curry favor with the powers that be. The forum would be in a sense a way for management to say "we didn't uphold the mod, the members did" The benefit is that people would get the chance to express their opinions and grievances. Rather than everything being decided behind closed doors, it would be out in the open and instead of all the mods, and admins vs the members, it would be members hashing things out among themselves. And if a good enough case was presented, management could graciously reverse the mod's ruling and the people's court will be seen as valid. It might have worked out to the same result under the present system but this brings transparency and more likelyhood that the complainer will see the error of his/her ways. Or at least see that many others thought he was wrong.
--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 3,530
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 3 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Stonehenge]
#15260793 - 10/22/11 09:55 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I agree with you. I believe the mods here volunteer, and some how the owners see this as excuse for anything that some members might seem unfair being completely overlooked or just being humoured. But what IF the kinds of personalities that DO volunteer do so because of a power motive---that it means they can call the shots, and if they feel their views are not shared by someone then they can use a strategy to provoke a ban.
Places like Youtube and realitysandwich do not have ANY seeming moderation, and there is no trouble and people feel freedom to express themselves. However if you have mods who (and I am not talking about ALL the mods at the shroomery btw)push a worldview and others do not share it what is happening is that they get ganged up on whilst others who share their views and/or are conformist get away with flouting the so-called rules an ting and this causes the community to be limited to what it could be------It creates a climate of fear where people are fearful of speaking their minds IF it goes away what they feel is the in-house view---beit scientific materialism or whatnot. I know I am not alone in thinking this and just wish those who feel this way would let their views be known in this thread.
Edited by zzripz (10/22/11 09:57 AM)
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ToiletDuk
Give me Librium or give me Meth!
Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 81,229
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15261971 - 10/22/11 04:12 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Well, I've been here a bit longer than you, and I don't feel any of what you say is true. I've seen quite a few folks get banned, and 99% of them have been well deserved and fair.
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 3,530
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 3 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: ToiletDuk]
#15262265 - 10/22/11 05:29 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
Well, I've been here a bit longer than you, and I don't feel any of what you say is true. I've seen quite a few folks get banned, and 99% of them have been well deserved and fair.
Do you have faith in scientific materialism?
Do you believe 9/11 was an inside job?
Do you think there is a spiritual reality?
Is spirit divided from matter?
Do you believe only the fittest survive?
Do you think dropping the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima etc was a good thing?
Do you believe that Earth and other species, and humans, is seriously threatened by our civilization?
I just need yes or no answers please. Thanks
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ToiletDuk
Give me Librium or give me Meth!
Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 81,229
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15262296 - 10/22/11 05:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Do you have faith in scientific materialism?
Do you believe 9/11 was an inside job?
Do you think there is a spiritual reality?
Is spirit divided from matter?
Do you believe only the fittest survive?
Do you think dropping the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima etc was a good thing?
Do you believe that Earth and other species, and humans, is seriously threatened by our civilization?
I just need yes or no answers please. Thanks
Sure. It's a lazy Saturday afternoon, so I'll indulge you.
Yes
No
No
Well to say yay or nay on that one would imply in a belief in the spiritual, so I must say I don't know.
Yes
Yes
No
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 3,530
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 3 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: ToiletDuk]
#15264984 - 10/23/11 07:39 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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....lol, well no WONDER you love it here and fit in and dont get flack from mods. You prove my point. YOUR case is closed.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,557
Loc: Americas
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15265011 - 10/23/11 07:54 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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What evidence do you have that you're "getting flack" from the moderation staff because of your views?
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,188
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 17 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15265533 - 10/23/11 11:51 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
....lol, well no WONDER you love it here and fit in and dont get flack from mods. You prove my point. YOUR case is closed.
Wow, you should like, be a lawyer or something. 
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,188
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 17 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: fireworks_god] 2
#15265540 - 10/23/11 11:55 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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It was already brought to your attention that this thread is against the rules of the forum you've posted it in, but yet you have no problem continuing on with your rants against moderators. Obviously your viewpoint is completely biased, as you have no regard for the rules, thus naturally you have some kind of grudge to settle with those who maintain the legitimacy of the rules. You awesome rebel you. Go for the gold, baby. Bring down the tyrant mongrel pigs!
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,188
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 17 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: johnm214] 2
#15265543 - 10/23/11 11:56 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
What evidence do you have that you're "getting flack" from the moderation staff because of your views?
You don't believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy, so what the fuck you do you know, man? Get the fuck out of here, man, you're not cool enough to be a rebel like me!
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,341
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: cherokee]
#15265658 - 10/23/11 12:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cherokee said:
i used to not get a long with pris...then I stopped being a jackass
pris is solid
good person all the way through
and extremely knowledgeable and helpful with just about everything
that's just crazy because I always got along with you
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Dystopia
unit - [s2dope] - v1.0.13
Registered: 03/24/00
Posts: 15,250
Loc: Danger Zone
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15265662 - 10/23/11 12:32 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I like rock candy, especially the blue kind.
Edited by Dystopia (10/23/11 02:21 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,341
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Dystopia]
#15265686 - 10/23/11 12:43 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dystopia said:
Sometimes the rules are ambiguous.
Some mods will twist them whichever way they want. Why? Because they're never wrong, you'll never open a ticket, and opening a ticket will never do anything.
many of us have had our asses chewed by the administrators on a few
occasions, that's nothing compared to the onslaught of abusive PMs we
frequently recieve from users over such a simple act as a warning or a
forum ban even after that user ha been warned dozens of times and few of
us have ever not had at least one ban overturned by the admins because
they didnt view the infraction as the banning mod did and as many can
attest to you can in fact PM the mods that took a particular action and
have actions reversed when you're willing to state your case convincingly
the admins do go through the support tickets, they do discuss the problems
amongst themselves and they also discuss the issues with the mods. if you
do have an issue with a mod, discuss it with that mod, if the two of you
cant work it out then it's time to take it to the next level which would
be the support ticket.
most of all, follow the rules and you wont have any issues with moderator action
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Kid_Orgo
journeyman janitor
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,513
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Dystopia]
#15265741 - 10/23/11 12:58 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dystopia said:
Put Kid_Orgo in charge of being an adjudicator. That'd work well.
You received a warning three months ago, I believe for telling coaster you hoped he'd OD.
It's going to be okay.
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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Dystopia
unit - [s2dope] - v1.0.13
Registered: 03/24/00
Posts: 15,250
Loc: Danger Zone
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#15265748 - 10/23/11 12:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I told him I thought he was an idiot for stealing medications and then OD'ing on them.
Come the f* on.
Really?
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Kid_Orgo
journeyman janitor
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,513
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15265753 - 10/23/11 01:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dystopia said:
I told him I thought he was an idiot
And you got warned for it, and you've been unable to let that go for the last three months.
I promise it's going to be okay.
Check your ratings, sunshine.
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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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ToiletDuk
Give me Librium or give me Meth!
Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 81,229
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: zzripz]
#15265795 - 10/23/11 01:15 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
....lol, well no WONDER you love it here and fit in and dont get flack from mods. You prove my point. YOUR case is closed.
Oh please.  Just because you don't find vindication for your nutty views by having others think just like you here, doesn't mean you can't find other forums out there filled with people that would agree with you.
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Dystopia
unit - [s2dope] - v1.0.13
Registered: 03/24/00
Posts: 15,250
Loc: Danger Zone
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#15265976 - 10/23/11 02:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Man I'm an idiot.
Sorry about that KO. I just started doing PM's again from the Paul Bunyan Mushroom Club gathering and I thought it was another one.
God I'm sorry dude.
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Kid_Orgo
journeyman janitor
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,513
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Dystopia]
#15266101 - 10/23/11 02:32 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I'm still not sure I understand the nature of the misunderstanding as it were, but there's no hard feelings on my end.
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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Dystopia
unit - [s2dope] - v1.0.13
Registered: 03/24/00
Posts: 15,250
Loc: Danger Zone
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#15266117 - 10/23/11 02:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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No hard feelings here. Now I just feel embarrassed which I deserve. Very sorry.
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Tri High
Whigro
Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: cherokee]
#15266269 - 10/23/11 03:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cherokee said:
Quote:
Tri High said:
Ban Prisoner1 2011!
Paul Bunyan is a true american heroe.
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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
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wildernessjunkie
Do Good Asshole
Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 4,722
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: The need for an Adjudicator at the Shroomery [Re: Ythan]
#15269267 - 10/24/11 03:43 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ythan said:
...To be a mod they must have a track record of strong character and excellent judgement on the site
They can't ask to be mods, or have ever shown any evidence that they're "power-hungry"
They have to have good communication skills, maturity, availability, and the full support of the existing staff...
...I am frankly astonished and thrilled that we have managed to recruit such a thoughtful, professional and unified team...
And, I am also inclined to let the occasional 'human moment' or lapse in judgement slide, because we just don't have a huge pool of satisfactory candidates and I cherish the ones we've already managed to find.
I dont mean to derail the thread here. But what I just read above, sounds like you need more moderators. Maybe it would be a good idea to open up a thread to nominate Mods?
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