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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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 Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe  [Re: markst]
#15188153 - 10/06/11 08:40 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
I will retract my statement of their being 98% of white Zimbabweans who are not superstitious and will instead say that 99.8% of white Zimbabweans are not brought up to believe in African mythology.
remember your statement about speaking for people you dont even know? you still seem to be doing so
it's crazy how you recant and revise when your argument falls apart
Quote:
The funny thing is that your trying to come across as a hard headed rational skeptic yet your actually coming across more gullible and naive than most people. It is the equivalent of me arguing to you "an American" that most white Americans share the same cultural beliefs as the native Indians, beating drums trying to commune with the spirit world (the only difference is we didn't wipe out the native culture). Do you understand how stupid it is?
no where did I say all or most, I simply stated that some do adopt at least in part some of the cultural beliefs and that can certainly be evidenced here in the US by the number of people here that talk about 'shamanism' and play make believe on how the injuns here in the states were a perfect culture that respected the land and didnt over hunt, etc...
there's a fuckload of americans that adopt the native 'superstitions'
BTW, I'm one of the injuns, I'm half cherokee and comanche, I see a lot of wannabe tontos
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What sort of evidence do you need that gives undeniable proof an alien craft landed there?
how about a couple of aliens in body bags or preferably alive, an alien
space ship on the back of a tow truck headed to the local mechanic to get
a tire changed.... that would be undeniable, certainly more so than
stories of a space ship landing yet no impressions left, varying tales and
descriptions about the being that occupied the craft
Quote:
Not to mention that those who conducted the investigation did not have the necessary equipment to do so.
so the world renowned African UFO expert, Cynthia Hind who was there the
very next day didnt have the tools to work with, pretty lame investigation
if you ask me. if I'm asked to investigate termite damage in a house the
least I'll carry is a flashlight and a screw driver and I'm no expert on
termites but I do know you need to blind them with the light before you
stab them in the face
Quote:
Keep in mind that my argument was that I believe that it was a mass hallucination. In fact I believe that most UFO encounters are an hallucination of some sort. Hence why I was refereeing to Carl Jung' theory of the UFO being an archetype experienced from humanity's collective unconscious.
you said:
This is by far the most compelling evidence to suggest that there are extra terrestrials.
in fact you didnt mention mass hallucinations until much later in the thread
Quote:
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load of crap, being a christian doesnt remove the culture regardless of
how hard they try, just look at the whole world including africa
Again don't know what your point is? Being a christian is a culture, it is the culture that we were brought up with and it stems from our British and Irish decedents. What culture exactly would Christianity not remove from this?
right but just as with the injuns here in the US that were forced to
convert, they didnt lose their culture just as many in europe, the middle
east, asia, south america, etc... havent lost theirs. remeber, you were
referring to all the kids at Ariel school as being taught christianity,
black, white, asian, etc... were the asians and blacks all from england?
Quote:
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some said the eyes were pointed at the top, others show them pointed at
the bottom and some showed rounded eyes, they also drew some as hairless
and some to be hairy. so no... there's a fuckload of inconsistencies in the stories
What exactly were you expecting? That every single child draw the exact same consistent picture? Hell, if you went and gathered a group of 60 kids and showed them a horse and then told them all to draw that horse, do you think that every single one of those kids aged 6 to 12 will draw that horse in exactly the same way? Of course not,
why would one kid see the hairy beast with round eyes while another sees a
hairless midget with pointed eyes, sure a 6yo wouldnt have the artistic
skills of the 12yo but such discrepancies point to there being more to
this story than we're being fed
there will be some inconsistencies that is because we are all individuals with our own perceptions. The fact of the matter is that they all drew something that was fairly similar.
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bullshit, I'm calling you out, prove that blacks in africa had no clue what UFOs were before 1994
Prove to me that black people have an understanding of UFO's in Zimbabwe before 1994 and in fact even today,
you're the one claiming that none had any knowledge of UFOs, so I called
you on it, the burden of proof lies on you since it was your claim, I'm
merely entertaining the possiblity that many had knowledge of UFOs in
1994, after all, africa isnt just emerging from the stone age
I'll humor you anyway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sightings_in_South_Africa
http://zimbabweufos.blogspot.com/2009/06/with-reference-to-ufo-sighting-july.html
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It is the equivalent of saying - "prove to me that all atheists don't have a belief in God".
that's quite easy to prove, let's follow the logic
if an atheist says that god does not exist then he has a belief god and that that god does not exist
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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 markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15189176 - 10/06/11 11:47 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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remember your statement about speaking for people you dont even know? you still seem to be doing so
it's crazy how you recant and revise when your argument falls apart
I can see this argument going round in circles. So let me try put an end to it because it is literally going no where. I have an understanding of where most white Zimbabweans cultural beliefs stem from because I'm one of them. So let me explain for the zillionth time that the white children who attended Ariel are highly unlikely, in fact extremely unlikely to be brought up believing in African mythology. How do I know this? Because in 1994 Ariel school held the majority of white children and I know this for a fact. Ariel school held the traditional British Christian values and the parents who sent their kids there would have expected this. Keep in mind that most of these "prestigious" Juniour schools were boarding schools which means that we were at School more than we were at home being brought up by parents, we were mostly brought up at school with a high level of discipline.
All the prestigious "white majority" schools in Zimbabwe were very similar. I attended a school called Barwick which also held the majority of white children and we played sports against Ariel as well as other curricular activities with them. There were a group of Junior schools that were very similar such as Ariel, Barwick, Ruzawi, Gateway, Lomogundi and Springvale. All these schools including Ariel were located in Northern Zimbabwe around an area known as Mashonaland. The schools that I have listed were prestigious white schools and were located fairly close to one another.
Now of course there were many other Junious school in this area that were majority black as well and I have no doubt that most of the kids who attended those schools would have been brought up with a traditional African culture that deals with African mythology.
Quote:
no where did I say all or most, I simply stated that some do adopt at least in part some of the cultural beliefs and that can certainly be evidenced here in the US by the number of people here that talk about 'shamanism' and play make believe on how the injuns here in the states were a perfect culture that respected the land and didnt over hunt, etc...
there's a fuckload of americans that adopt the native 'superstitions'
BTW, I'm one of the injuns, I'm half cherokee and comanche, I see a lot of wannabe tontos
Yes but we can safely agree that the majority of white Americans don't, the same can be said with white Zimbabweans.
Most of us white Zim kids did not adopt the African culture, although a lot of us had an extremely good understanding and maybe even an interest in their culture(I certainly did), most of us did not sway from our Christian upbringing. Also keep in mind that a lot of the Shona and Ndebele people were fairly Christian themselves, in fact it is estimated that 60 to 70% of all Zimbabweans were protestant Christians. Which is a hell of a shame because these religious systems have distorted the Shona culture, who had a magnificent artistic ability as well as a unique perspective of reality. Although when I was back there at the end of last year, I did find a magnificent amount of Shona art in Victoria Falls and Harare. If you would like a better understanding of Shona mythology visit this page:
http://www.africancraftsmarket.com/Shona_people.htm
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how about a couple of aliens in body bags or preferably alive, an alien
space ship on the back of a tow truck headed to the local mechanic to get
a tire changed.... that would be undeniable, certainly more so than
stories of a space ship landing yet no impressions left, varying tales and
descriptions about the being that occupied the craft
Yes I agree, we do not have any empirical evidence whatsoever of UFO's. However we can't just disregard these witness reports purely from a reductionist argument. I believe that there is more to this reality then we can account for, and physics as well as quantum physics has shown this. Science is desperately trying to go beyond reductionism hence why we have constructed the Hadron Collider, we are trying to understand the other dimensions of reality besides the 3 dimensional materialistic one we inhabit.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/284/5411/79.full
Now because I believe that these UFO accounts are some form psychological phenomena, it does not necessarily mean that these UFO's do not exist. Perhaps these extra terrestrials do not want to reveal themselves from a reductionist philosophical perspective, maybe (like science is slowly starting to reveal to us) they are also trying to reveal to us that there is more to this reality than materialism. This is probably because they would not have achieved their evolution of technology if they had relied on a pure materialistic philosophy. However I'm not discrediting reductionism, I believe science would not have progressed if it were not for the reductionist stance they had taken, keep in mind this stance is also to blame from weapons of mass destruction such as the Atomic bomb etc. But I believe as human beings need to go beyond this reductionist philosophy and science seems to agree with me, as the article I have posted has suggested. I believe our consciousness can penetrate these higher dimension, where the UFO's reveal themselves to us. Although I also agree that these UFO's can reveal themselves to us in this three dimensional world we live as well, it's just that it will not be beneficial to our evolution.
Quote:
so the world renowned African UFO expert, Cynthia Hind who was there the
very next day didnt have the tools to work with, pretty lame investigation
if you ask me. if I'm asked to investigate termite damage in a house the
least I'll carry is a flashlight and a screw driver and I'm no expert on
termites but I do know you need to blind them with the light before you
stab them in the face
No you have misunderstood me, Zimbabwe did not posses the technological tools for a thorough investigation of the area. You can not blame Cynthia Hinds for this. She was an incredibly intelligent women who did the very best with what she was granted with.
Quote:
This is by far the most compelling evidence to suggest that there are extra terrestrials.
in fact you didnt mention mass hallucinations until much later in the thread
I think what I have mentioned above pretty much answers this question.
Quote:
right but just as with the injuns here in the US that were forced to
convert, they didnt lose their culture just as many in europe, the middle
east, asia, south america, etc... havent lost theirs. remeber, you were
referring to all the kids at Ariel school as being taught christianity,
black, white, asian, etc... were the asians and blacks all from england?
Again what I have written above pretty much answers this question, yes the most of the black kids were not from Europe and yes some of them would have an understanding of their true African culture but the majority of them were Christian. What is your point exactly? And how does it relate to the UFO phenomenon?
Quote:
why would one kid see the hairy beast with round eyes while another sees a
hairless midget with pointed eyes, sure a 6yo wouldnt have the artistic
skills of the 12yo but such discrepancies point to there being more to
this story than we're being fed
The majority of these kids said that they witnessed a black being with eyes as big as rugby balls. A kid drawing a picture of this being round well another one draws it with pointy eyes is hardly a discrepancy. Also you have just contradicted yourself with this statement - "sure a 6yo wouldnt have the artistic
skills of the 12yo" that is simply what I pointed out. Again if you showed these kids a horse then asked them to draw it, some will draw the horse with big eyes others will draw it with smaller ones, some will draw the legs, head and body differently. Would you discount these kids claiming to see a horse if they all drew it differently?
Quote:
you're the one claiming that none had any knowledge of UFOs, so I called
you on it, the burden of proof lies on you since it was your claim, I'm
merely entertaining the possiblity that many had knowledge of UFOs in
1994, after all, africa isnt just emerging from the stone age
And I'm merely entertaining that this possibility is highly unlikely because UFO's (like I said before) do NOT fit within the African cultural paradigm. The majority of Africans do not have an understanding of this phenomena nor do they have a belief in it and you can't convince me otherwise. And yes Africa is just emerging from the stone age, Western civilization is leaps and bounds ahead of them in terms of technological understanding. The common African in Zimbabwe would barely know what the internet is, not to mention the life expectancy in the country is something like 35.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sightings_in_South_Africa
You also seem to think that Zimbabwe and South Africa are the same country? LOL They are completely different, with different languages, cultures and economy.
Quote:
http://zimbabweufos.blogspot.com/2009/06/with-reference-to-ufo-sighting-july.html
So one blog that has the massive amount of 4 fucking followers is compelling evidence that the Africans in Zimbabwe have an understanding of the UFO phenomena. Not to mention, the person who started that blog as well as the followers all happen to be white. LOL again.
Quote:
that's quite easy to prove, let's follow the logic
if an atheist says that god does not exist then he has a belief god and that that god does not exist
WTF?
Edited by markst (10/06/11 11:55 PM)
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 3,545
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 1 hour, 46 minutes
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15190041 - 10/07/11 04:34 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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BTW, I'm one of the injuns, I'm half cherokee and comanche, I see a lot of wannabe tontos
Quote:
injun 353 up, 149 down
A racially offensive epithet used towards Native Americans. However, Columbus was wrong, this racial slur was in fact meant for inhabitants of India and has now been recently claimed at the University of Washington.
Modern equivalent of "Nigga", except its used to refer to Indians who, thanks to Kumar, are finally in mainstream American culture.
Can be used in reference to other people who are "down with the brown". This EVEN includes white people, as long as they're tight with some Indians.
"Yo what up my injun!"
"Injun please..."
"I'm gonna have to go fuck that injun up!"
"Shame on a injun" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=injun
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15190306 - 10/07/11 08:13 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
I can see this argument going round in circles. So let me try put an end to it because it is literally going no where. I have an understanding of where most white Zimbabweans cultural beliefs stem from because I'm one of them. So let me explain for the zillionth time that the white children who attended Ariel are highly unlikely, in fact extremely unlikely to be brought up believing in African mythology.
first is was all the children, then it's the white kids, then it's most,
then 98% then it's 99.98%, not to mention no school kid in zim would lie
and it just goeson, you're pulling shit out of your ass and speaking for
all even though plenty of news articles written by people living and
reporting in zimbabwe are showing a very different story
markst said:
The truth of the matter is most Zimbabweans do not concern themselves with the supernatural of this nature due to the conservative and Christian upbringing we were brought up with.
Quote:
Keep in mind that most of these "prestigious" Juniour schools were boarding schools which means that we were at School more than we were at home being brought up by parents, we were mostly brought up at school with a high level of discipline.
Now of course there were many other Junious school in this area that were majority black as well and I have no doubt that most of the kids who attended those schools would have been brought up with a traditional African culture that deals with African mythology.
even more reason for kids to act out, where's mummy and daddy's love for them if they're shipped off to a boarding school, they want attention so they do something outlandish
doesnt matter the school, doesnt matter if it's a few locals in with 1000
white kids, they'll still learn of their culture unless they're isolated
from everyone
Quote:
Yes but we can safely agree that the majority of white Americans don't, the same can be said with white Zimbabweans.
but we can also safely agree that most is not all, if you look at the
demographic of this board you'll see a disproportionately high number of
the injun wannabes just as the 70's and early 80's all across the US had a
high number, maybe it was only one or two percent but that was millions of
people
the fact of the matter is that neither of us know what's inside another's
head so you're here making generalizations when in fact all you can do is
go by what the limited few you're in contact with tell you, thus, you cant
say no whites, .02% of the whites, 2% or any number does or doesnt believe
in what ever
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Also keep in mind that a lot of the Shona and Ndebele people were fairly Christian themselves, in fact it is estimated that 60 to 70% of all Zimbabweans were protestant Christians.
and we've seen examples of african christianity, that's a real shame when
kids are tortured and thrown out or even killed because their parents had
a little bad luck and suddenly the kids are witches
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Yes I agree, we do not have any empirical evidence whatsoever of UFO's. However we can't just disregard these witness reports purely from a reductionist argument.
I dont disbelieve in the existence of extra terrestrials, I do disbelieve
these kids saw a UFO, you say a mass hallucination or a lesser probability
of a prank yet also speak as though you're a believer... somehow I believe
the latter because you're certainly doing your damnedest to defend these
kids even though you claim to be a skeptic. we dont have any 'evidence'
other than eye witness accounts and poor video footage
as I stated, some of these kids show obvious signs of deception, whether they're lying about what they've seen or about seeing anything at all is anyone's guess but I dont believe in the mass hallucination theory, mass hysteria is a probability, pranking is another
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I believe our consciousness can penetrate these higher dimension, where the UFO's reveal themselves to us. Although I also agree that these UFO's can reveal themselves to us in this three dimensional world we live as well, it's just that it will not be beneficial to our evolution.
it's quite the statement for the skeptic
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No you have misunderstood me, Zimbabwe did not posses the technological tools for a thorough investigation of the area. You can not blame Cynthia Hinds for this. She was an incredibly intelligent women who did the very best with what she was granted with.
cinthia hind did possess the tools and was there the next day yet no one
found any sort of physical evidence, Hind was a practitioner of quack
medicine just as Jung was. Hind was an expert on UFOs and a UFOlogist yet
she's never laid her hands on one, like the religious who 'believe' in a
god they've never seen or touched she too is a believer. Like the
believers of religion, many make up stories to explain things or simply
make up stories. I recall hearing of someone that was healed of cancer
because of prayer yet the doctards said it was a 'possibility' that it
could develop and once a biopsy was done it was found to be a non
cancerous growth...
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Again what I have written above pretty much answers this question, yes the most of the black kids were not from Europe and yes some of them would have an understanding of their true African culture but the majority of them were Christian. What is your point exactly? And how does it relate to the UFO phenomenon?
how does being a christian negate ten thousand years of culture and
history? christianity is just another myth, one taken from the middle east
to the rest of the world and forced upon many of the inhabitants, why is
christianity so special that it overrides the myths and legends with it's
own yet christians carry many of the 'pagan' superstitions with them even
though they've been Christians for more than 1000 years
my point is, christianity is filled with myths like the zimbabweian
culture has Tokoloshe and thousands of other superstitions and myths
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The majority of these kids said that they witnessed a black being with eyes as big as rugby balls. A kid drawing a picture of this being round well another one draws it with pointy eyes is hardly a discrepancy. Also you have just contradicted yourself with this statement - "sure a 6yo wouldnt have the artistic skills of the 12yo" that is simply what I pointed out. Again if you showed these kids a horse then asked them to draw it, some will draw the horse with big eyes others will draw it with smaller ones, some will draw the legs, head and body differently. Would you discount these kids claiming to see a horse if they all drew it differently?
really? so if the round vs oval vs pointed isnt a discrepancy then what
would be, 3 eyes vs no eyes? surely a kid of 6 can draw a roundish head
with pointy eyes, surely the black suit would not have been hairy, surely
the hopping, aliens wouldnt have been sitting
your argument is silly, if you ask a hundred kids ages 6 to 12 to draw a
horse do you think some would draw the horse as a human? do they not teach
children in zimbabwe's schools about shapes? pointed, rugby ball like,
while similar to each other are completely different than round, humans
have eyes shaped like rugby balls
4 different drawings of something that may have appeared oval in shape with a bump on it, yet 2 drawings are drastically different and not even similar to the two that match, again should we blame that on the technical skills of the kids
in the drawings we can see trees to be trees, would we not see the drawing
of a horse to be at least somewhat horse like even if it looks more like a
stick figure dog?
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And I'm merely entertaining that this possibility is highly unlikely because UFO's (like I said before) do NOT fit within the African cultural paradigm. The majority of Africans do not have an understanding of this phenomena nor do they have a belief in it and you can't convince me otherwise. And yes Africa is just emerging from the stone age, Western civilization is leaps and bounds ahead of them in terms of technological understanding.
africans brought us into the iron age, why would they be so technologically
backwards... possibly their politics, religions and superstitions? are you telling us there was no TV or radio in zimbabwe in 1994? can you honestly tell us that since 1956 not a single native hasnt heard of a UFO, that lost in space wasnt also played in syndication in zimbabwe
can you claim to be so well versed in african culture that you know what is and isnt a part of it?
http://67.159.223.63/dogon.html
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/dogon.htm
http://www.nephilimskulls.com/Articles.asp?ID=149
http://www.worldwidefeatures.com/feature_info.php?feature_id=429
Quote:
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sightings_in_South_Africa
You also seem to think that Zimbabwe and South Africa are the same country? LOL They are completely different, with different languages, cultures and economy.
Quote:
http://zimbabweufos.blogspot.com/2009/06/with-reference-to-ufo-sighting-july.html
So one blog that has the massive amount of 4 fucking followers is compelling evidence that the Africans in Zimbabwe have an understanding of the UFO phenomena. Not to mention, the person who started that blog as well as the followers all happen to be white. LOL again.
did you not read anything in that link? zimbabwe is specifically
mentioned, in fact it mentions the abduction of two travelers IN ZIMBABWE
doesnt zimbabwe have a dozen languages it's self, why are you trying to mislead people so badly
who speaks Venda, Tswana,
yet you've still not proven anything regarding the claims that UFOs are
completely unknown to the peoples in africa and specifically zimbabwe
prior to 1994
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Tri High
Whigro
Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15190561 - 10/07/11 10:18 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Is selling guns to mexican cartels right or wrong?
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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15190612 - 10/07/11 10:37 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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doesnt zimbabwe have a dozen languages it's self, why are you trying to mislead people so badly
who speaks Venda, Tswana,
yet you've still not proven anything regarding the claims that UFOs are
completely unknown to the peoples in africa and specifically zimbabwe
prior to 1994
Are you really here to waste my time?
Quote:
Travellers Peter and Frances MacNorman claimed an abduction event on 31 May, which would have started near Fort Victoria in the current southern Zimbabwe, and which would have continued to the vicinity of Beitbridge on the South African border.
Both those people are white people.
Now explain to me what exactly have you proven with your argument?
Of course the majority of Africans in Zimbabwe do not have an understanding of the UFO phenomenon and you still have not proven this otherwise. The links you have posted are possibly the most retarded source of evidence for your argument.
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doesnt zimbabwe have a dozen languages it's self, why are you trying to mislead people so badly
Where exactly have I mislead people? Why are you trying to assume this so badly? I think your trying to mislead people with your illogical understanding of Zimbabwean culture.
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who speaks Venda, Tswana,
These are not big languages in Zimbabwe, they are an extreme minority, the only people who speak those languages are on the border of Botswana and South Africa.
The language Tswana is spoken in Botswana and the language Venda is spoken in South Africa.
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can you claim to be so well versed in african culture that you know what is and isnt a part of it?
Can you? The funny thing is, this is exactly what your doing. Not only are you claiming to understand the culture but you are failing at understanding the culture (claiming that some of them have a belief in UFO's and this sort of shit) and you are also insisting that I'm misleading people. Very ironic.
I have shown many other Zimbabwean friends of mine your posts, most who are massive skeptic of UFO's and they all agree that your dribbling absolute nonsense(not that this is relevant at all but I thought I would let you know). Maybe you should come join us in Zimbabwe sometime so we can educate and straighten out some of your misconceived notions of the culture, and who knows you might get a UFO sighting out of your tour which will be a real big bang out of your buck - Like you said Zimbabwe is a great UFO destination....aye 
Also just to end on that note, not that is fairly relevant but it does justify my argument to some degree. A Witchdoctor in South Africa claimed to have believed in UFO's and was publicly denounced by the natural healers and witchdoctors because they basically said he was batshit crazy and that people should not listen to him.
I read this somewhere and I will provide a link later.
The reason why I didn't answer to your other arguments is because you are constantly making redundant points and I can see through your circular logic, and if I continue to debate you there will be no end in site. Also I have had a warning from your other mod friend? Whoever it is doesn't seem to like my argument very much to the point where they are giving me ban warnings. I find that very strange.
Edited by markst (10/07/11 11:30 AM)
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15190665 - 10/07/11 10:52 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
africans brought us into the iron age, why would they be so technologically
backwards... possibly their politics, religions and superstitions? are you telling us there was no TV or radio in zimbabwe in 1994? can you honestly tell us that since 1956 not a single native hasnt heard of a UFO, that lost in space wasnt also played in syndication in zimbabwe
can you claim to be so well versed in african culture that you know what is and isnt a part of it?
http://67.159.223.63/dogon.html
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/dogon.htm
http://www.nephilimskulls.com/Articles.asp?ID=149
http://www.worldwidefeatures.com/feature_info.php?feature_id=429
I would just like to point out that those were extremely interesting links. Different cultures have their own way of interpreting this UFO phenomenon, I lot of them believe that those rock paintings are their ancestors, not aliens from out of space.
Also Lost in Space would barely be understood by Africans, most of them can't speak english well. Please provide a copy with Shona and Ndebele subtitles.
I would also like to point out to you Prisoner#1 this:
Quote:
Overall, 30% of the population receives broadcasts by the ZBC, so radio is the main source of information. In 2006, a parliamentary committee in Zimbabwe called for an opening up of the broadcast media.[7] Chinese technology has been used to jam frequencies used by foreign based radio stations in South Africa, the US and the UK that criticise the government.[6][7] The vast majority of the media is practically propaganda, all of it either eulogizes Mugabe, features themes of African surpremacy, and heavily spreads anti-British and anti-American sentiment on its TV and radio programming. There are no entertainment television programs, and very little music on the radio.[6][7]
In the presidential elections in 2008, the media gave significantly more coverage to the ruling party, Zanu PF, and rarely showed opposition broadcasts. It was also criticised for inciting violence against the opposition.[25][26]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Zimbabwe#Television_and_radio
Did I win the debate?
Edited by markst (10/07/11 11:06 AM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15190697 - 10/07/11 11:01 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
LOL.
Markst +1
Great, an ad hominem.
Perhaps its not clear how arguments work, let me explain. You construct some logical chain from your premises to the conclusion.
Nothing there has anything to do with the nationality or life experience of the arguer. You're criticism is ridiculous and plainly an illogical ad hominem argument that has no relevance to the point.
You've been corrected on this point before. If you don't wish to make a coherent argument at least stop with the dishonest ones.
You do recognize how absurd your statement is. If you were a true rationalist you would understand what it is meant by an illogical ad hominem argument because nothing is more illogical than for you to claim that Tri High is using an ad hominem. In fact I question if you even have a proper understanding of the use of the term.
Lets observe this issue in a "logical" manner ok?
Prisoner#1 is from America and to my understanding he has never been to Zimbabwe and probably has no educational background whatsoever of the culture. Do you agree?
What is the relevance of this question?
For the sake of argument I'll answer anyways: no. I don't no much about Prisoner except that he's from the southern US.
Quote:
Now lets say you wanted to do a thesis on the Zimbabwean culture. Who would you approach to gather an understanding of the culture - An American who lives his life on a message board or an actual Zimbabwean who lived the culture?
again, what does it matter? Arguendo, the Zimbabwean, though that wouldn't be a good source either. Nationality is a poor marker of knowledge.
Quote:
I don't know whether you people purposely try to act naively arrogant or if your actually partially retarded. I think the later is more accurate.
I see that once again you've decided to use the same fallacy, only now you've attacked me: my understanding of the ad hominem fallacy, my mental functioning, and so forth. Again, this is irrelevant. If you want to discuss the issues then you need to stop getting emotional and lashing out at people who don't share the same views as you.
Its also against the rules and you'll need to comply with them or you'll be asked to leave this forum.
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Tri High
Whigro
Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15190724 - 10/07/11 11:08 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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HAHAHAHA
The ignorant swooping in and picking the bones of a live corpse!
Don't let 'em get you down, buddy. They're just american, after all.
--------------------
you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: johnm214]
#15190752 - 10/07/11 11:15 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
markst said:
Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
LOL.
Markst +1
Great, an ad hominem.
Perhaps its not clear how arguments work, let me explain. You construct some logical chain from your premises to the conclusion.
Nothing there has anything to do with the nationality or life experience of the arguer. You're criticism is ridiculous and plainly an illogical ad hominem argument that has no relevance to the point.
You've been corrected on this point before. If you don't wish to make a coherent argument at least stop with the dishonest ones.
You do recognize how absurd your statement is. If you were a true rationalist you would understand what it is meant by an illogical ad hominem argument because nothing is more illogical than for you to claim that Tri High is using an ad hominem. In fact I question if you even have a proper understanding of the use of the term.
Lets observe this issue in a "logical" manner ok?
Prisoner#1 is from America and to my understanding he has never been to Zimbabwe and probably has no educational background whatsoever of the culture. Do you agree?
What is the relevance of this question?
For the sake of argument I'll answer anyways: no. I don't no much about Prisoner except that he's from the southern US.
Quote:
Now lets say you wanted to do a thesis on the Zimbabwean culture. Who would you approach to gather an understanding of the culture - An American who lives his life on a message board or an actual Zimbabwean who lived the culture?
again, what does it matter? Arguendo, the Zimbabwean, though that wouldn't be a good source either. Nationality is a poor marker of knowledge.
Quote:
I don't know whether you people purposely try to act naively arrogant or if your actually partially retarded. I think the later is more accurate.
I see that once again you've decided to use the same fallacy, only now you've attacked me: my understanding of the ad hominem fallacy, my mental functioning, and so forth. Again, this is irrelevant. If you want to discuss the issues then you need to stop getting emotional and lashing out at people who don't share the same views as you.
Its also against the rules and you'll need to comply with them or you'll be asked to leave this forum.
Yeah no your right. You make perfect sense. Next time I do a thesis on the anthropological studies of Zimbabweans, I won't actually use Zimbabweans as a reference point I will just use an American to explain it all to me. Seems fairly logical, thanks for straightening me out, I never knew I could be so wrong about my own Zimbabwean cultural experience.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15190834 - 10/07/11 11:40 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Why do you continue to use dishonest arguments like this? Your last two replies were ad hominem arguments, now your fabricating straw man arguments and attacking those. You've not replied to the questions I've asked, yet those you've asked I've answered. If your not going to have an honest discussion than stop with the pretense.
If you not sure how to respond or of your position you can simply say so, its no big deal, and much less annoying than having to encounter the same sophomoric tactics.
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: johnm214]
#15190920 - 10/07/11 12:08 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
again, what does it matter? Arguendo, the Zimbabwean, though that wouldn't be a good source either. Nationality is a poor marker of knowledge.
This statement that you have made is the reason why I will not answer your question. It is simply idiotic. Not to mention, I have studied the structure of arguments in Philosophy and I can see you are just spouting gibberish.
Please ignore me from now on. Thank you.
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 3,545
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 1 hour, 46 minutes
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15191450 - 10/07/11 02:26 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Oh what I see here yet again is complete take-over, provocative, bullying beghaviour from the two mustkateers, moderators, prisoner and john234--it is the same old same old act. NOTICE how no other posters dare join in, cept people just throwing in one-liners. Couyld this be because they would feel intimidated methinks, and so feel all the offering they dare give is one sentence, or suck up to the mod-power thang going on? this is intimidation, and it is WRONG! And if I were to have to point out all WHY it is so wrong and hypocrituical---guess what happens? yeah the thread, about this fascinating subject becomes totally derailed doesn't it? Like it is now. But I just feel I need to point this out.
markst is deliberately being provoked by disrespect and pretentious trivium (logic of discourse) nonesense, and absurd accusation etc.
So--what recourse does one have is what I want to know?-------ARE these forums for the MEMBERS or are they the sole territory of prisoner and john234 to push their worldview backed up with a finger threatening to ban any dissenter who doesn't put up with their manner?
Ie., can noone else explore things without being surrounded by your intimidating act? So --can we IGNORE you? there are buttons I believe under the posts to ignore irritating members, right? Can we report you? I was VERy surprised to find out that Cosmonaut was the one to send markst a warning last time. I suppose if someone had ratted on markst post, Cosmonaut had no choice but to act....? I just find all this very UNbeneficial for these Shroomery forums. Does no one care? Who OWNS this forum? I could love to have a word with them. There were others who felt this unfairness afoot a while back---aint heard of em for a while...........are they banned??
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: zzripz]
#15191666 - 10/07/11 03:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I'm getting pretty tired of this kinda thing, zzripz. If you have a problem with me you can address it in a clear, unemotional, and straightforward way. In the above post I cannot identify any particular example of a problem you feel exists, and all that seems to be mentioned are conclusions that someone is being intimidated by me. If this is so, simply explain the matter, provide some examples of the offending behavior and send it to me. If you don't get relief to your satisfaction you may contact the administrators.
Either address the problem in a reasonable, calm, manner, or drop it. What you can't do is keep making these rants about me. If you have an issue with other forum members, like Prisoner, then I suggest you talk to him. If you have a problem with the way this forum is run, then I suggest you talk to the forum mods or the administration.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15193109 - 10/07/11 09:09 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
Quote:
africans brought us into the iron age, why would they be so technologically
backwards... possibly their politics, religions and superstitions? are you telling us there was no TV or radio in zimbabwe in 1994? can you honestly tell us that since 1956 not a single native hasnt heard of a UFO, that lost in space wasnt also played in syndication in zimbabwe
can you claim to be so well versed in african culture that you know what is and isnt a part of it?
http://67.159.223.63/dogon.html
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/dogon.htm
http://www.nephilimskulls.com/Articles.asp?ID=149
http://www.worldwidefeatures.com/feature_info.php?feature_id=429
I would just like to point out that those were extremely interesting links. Different cultures have their own way of interpreting this UFO phenomenon, I lot of them believe that those rock paintings are their ancestors, not aliens from out of space.
then surely you'd like to back up at least this one claim with some sort
of evidence since you havent backed up anything else you've said and
nearly every one of your posts flounders against the others with your ever
changing statistics and 'facts'
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: zzripz]
#15193163 - 10/07/11 09:26 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Oh what I see here yet again is complete take-over, provocative, bullying beghaviour from the two mustkateers, moderators, prisoner and john234--it is the same old same old act.
this shit is getting old, why to the 'believers' never want to back up
their claims, you included, how about you back this one up since you're
claiming we're bullying, all I've done is cast doubt on this fantastic
story with the fantastic and ever changing claims made by the OP
Quote:
NOTICE how no other posters dare join in, cept people just throwing in one-liners. Couyld this be because they would feel intimidated methinks, and so feel all the offering they dare give is one sentence, or suck up to the mod-power thang going on? this is intimidation, and it is WRONG!
if you feel intimidated by someone calling bullshit then that's all on
you, no one has made any threats whether direct or implied, I've simply
asked for some proof of the claims and stated my case while people like
you and tri high have decided to troll, instead of aiding the OP you
instead are trying to derail the thread with these off topic rants and
while I've shown great leniency toward you in the past I believe that will
end soon... see, I'm a believer too
Quote:
Ie., can noone else explore things without being surrounded by your intimidating act? So --can we IGNORE you? there are buttons I believe under the posts to ignore irritating members, right? Can we report you? I was VERy surprised to find out that Cosmonaut was the one to send markst a warning last time. I suppose if someone had ratted on markst post, Cosmonaut had no choice but to act....? I just find all this very UNbeneficial for these Shroomery forums. Does no one care? Who OWNS this forum? I could love to have a word with them. There were others who felt this unfairness afoot a while back---aint heard of em for a while...........are they banned??
you always portray yourself as a victim and me as the villain. it's old
and I've asked you numerous times to stop as all it does is disrupt a
discussion with off topic nonsense. if someone cant handle having their
beliefs questioned then they should find the WE LOVE UFOs Forum. markst
seems to handle himself just fine and while I'm sure he's appreciative of
your support maybe you should support his end of the discussion instead of
trying to derail it yet again
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15194502 - 10/08/11 03:43 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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The truth of the matter is zzripz does make a legitimate point. If anyone is derailing this conversation by trolling I would have to argue that johnm234 and Prisoner#1 is most responsible for this.
While I do respect as well as take into consideration Prisoner#1 argument, there is an uncomfortable and an unfair advantage he seems to be getting with his side of the debate. I will explain why with proof from his previous statements that deliberately provoke an emotional response.
Here are quotes from Prisoner#1
Quote:
I've seen the movie tarzan, I have a pretty damned good idea of what the state of affairs in zimbabwe is
Do you not think that this statement is somewhat offensive to Zimbabweans?
Quote:
McKenna is just some druggie twat that wrote some books
Prisoner#1 is welcome to believe that Mckenna is some druggie twat but he did not provide his reasons for this statement. These sort of mindless mocking statements is what is considered trolling.
Quote:
and yet you're professing to know the state of affairs in zimbabwe,
knowing what people think and believe, etc even though you left while
still pretty young...
Here Prisoner#1 makes his argument personal, where exactly did I state when I left Zimbabwe? Do you not think this is an incredibly naive statement?
I believe that all three of these quotes deliberately provoke an emotional response even if Prisoner#1 is not aware of this. I don't particularly have an issue with Prisoner#1 otherwise I would reported him, but seeing as I have been unfairly reported, this does seem extremely contradictory.
Now notice how all three of these quotes above do not garner any criticism whatsoever from john214. He follows anyone that criticizes Prisoner#1 with an absurd statement such as this one.
Quote:
Great, an ad hominem.
Perhaps its not clear how arguments work, let me explain. You construct some logical chain from your premises to the conclusion.
Nothing there has anything to do with the nationality or life experience of the arguer. You're criticism is ridiculous and plainly an illogical ad hominem argument that has no relevance to the point.
You've been corrected on this point before. If you don't wish to make a coherent argument at least stop with the dishonest ones.
Anyone who actually knows what an ad hominem would see how he clearly has hijacked the use of this term out of context, to support Prisoner#1 argument. This is trolling, as I have not only stated that I'm from Zimbabwe but have given an incredible amount of information of my understanding of the culture which is extremely relevant to not only my argument but the whole purpose of this thread.
Now lets take a look at the ban warning I received from a fairly harmless as well as a completely justifiable statement.
Quote:
I don't know whether you people purposely try to act naively arrogant or if your actually partially retarded. I think the later is more accurate.
Now I will admit that this statement that I have made is in fact an emotional statement, which only supports the undeniable truth that both john214 and Prisoner#1 are trolling as they provoked me into an emotional response. The proof is in the pudding as I have provided both statements made by Prisoner#1 and john214. These two are both trolls.
Now I certainly did not have any problem with Prisoner#1 argument, I found it to be quite enjoyable and I welcome skeptics and debates in this thread. This thread however has completely been derailed and I have received unnecessary ban warnings from mods, who have read my above statement out of context. This is behavior should not be tolerated on the shroomery, this is clearly an arrogant attempt to completely deter conversation as well as constructive criticism.
Edited by markst (10/08/11 03:59 AM)
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15194625 - 10/08/11 04:37 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
markst said:
Quote:
africans brought us into the iron age, why would they be so technologically
backwards... possibly their politics, religions and superstitions? are you telling us there was no TV or radio in zimbabwe in 1994? can you honestly tell us that since 1956 not a single native hasnt heard of a UFO, that lost in space wasnt also played in syndication in zimbabwe
can you claim to be so well versed in african culture that you know what is and isnt a part of it?
http://67.159.223.63/dogon.html
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/dogon.htm
http://www.nephilimskulls.com/Articles.asp?ID=149
http://www.worldwidefeatures.com/feature_info.php?feature_id=429
I would just like to point out that those were extremely interesting links. Different cultures have their own way of interpreting this UFO phenomenon, I lot of them believe that those rock paintings are their ancestors, not aliens from out of space.
then surely you'd like to back up at least this one claim with some sort
of evidence since you havent backed up anything else you've said and
nearly every one of your posts flounders against the others with your ever
changing statistics and 'facts'
Prisoner#1 you continuously contradict yourself, as I recall you have not backed up any of your statements with ANY evidence whatsoever. You still have not provided any evidence to prove that Zimbabwean Africans have a belief in UFO's, where as I have given a considerable amount of reasoning as to why the majority of them would not. Not only have I given reasoning but I have also backed this up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Zimbabwe#Television_and_radio
Again I have to repeat myself, this is the last time I do so and I beckon that anyone who is reading this thread, go over all my posts and compare them with Prisoner#1 illogical and ignorant posts that claims he has understanding of the Zimbabwean culture.
Also if you had happened to watch the interview with Cynthia Hinds, she specifically points out that Africans interpret the UFO phenomena and extra terrestrials as being their ancestors. I suggest you go over this thread again and watch that video, Cynthia Hinds has actually interviewed these Africans in order to gain this understanding.
Also how in the fuck do you explain those rock paintings as being evidence that Africans believe in UFO's and extra terrestrials. I thought you argued that they gained this understanding from the media, did you not? So where in the fuck did those who painted those rock paintings over 6000 years ago get their idea of extra terrestrials and UFO's, the ancient Sci/FI Channel.
You logic is extremely amusing to me. You really are not worth the time to argue with.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15194706 - 10/08/11 05:34 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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markst, what I said to zzripz applies to you to. If you want to discuss the thread than do so. If you have a problem with me you can address it in the manner explained to zzripz (if you want a public forum then use my journal).
As for your discussion of my posts as a regular member, I note you make conclusory statements without providing any argument establishing said conclusions as true. You complain of a wide manner of things, such as giving offense to Zimbabweans to taking (sometthing) out of context, yet none of these appear to violate the rules, even if true. You may address the forum moderators via the report post functionality and complain of whatever conduct you object to, but your role here is not as a moderator at present, and you will stop with these condemnations of fellow forum members.
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thescientist
gypson
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 547
Loc: snowbelt
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: johnm214] 1
#15194737 - 10/08/11 06:12 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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The overwhelming influence some mods have here is getting really tiring.
Your "over the top posting style" and aggressiveness is reducing the overall quality of discussion.
Have some humility.
I know you're not listening, and only thinking of how you can anally probe my post, so I'll repeat myself,
"Have some humility."
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