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 markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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 Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe  [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15174490 - 10/04/11 12:31 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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markst said:
If someone who is more knowledgeable of Terence Mckenna or Carl Jung's notion of the UFO. C
appeal to authority, it's a fallacious argument because neither was there at the time of the incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
McKenna is just some druggie twat that wrote some books
Jung believe in astrology and alchemy, somehow the stars never managed to
align and help him turn lead into gold. jung was also a believer in the
supernatural and the occult... his own brand of superstitions
As I already mentioned, I was speculating! I somehow have gathered that you are trolling as you are quick to dismiss both Jung and Mckenna by assuming that they are "wacko's" or "druggies". When people resort to name calling, it's usually says more about them then those they try to ridicule.
Carl G. Jung believed that there is an indisputable connection between our minds and our bodies. Most people today would agree with that assessment. Our bodies affect our minds, and our minds affect our bodies. Our external situation affects our bodies, which affects our minds, and vice versa.
Taking it a step further, Carl Jung believed that we affect our physical environment, and that ultimately, we affect the solar system. The solar system affects us, we affect the solar system. Our lives are not "caused" by the stars - the stars do not initiate anything, but there is an ongoing two-way relationship between ourselves and the stars.
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 mushiepussy
Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc: 
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15174874 - 10/04/11 02:50 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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The teacher let them watch a scary alien movie, then told them to draw pictures of it for a class assignment.
They say they were "beamed" the message because that is what televisions do.
They say they aren't making it up because the teacher is.
They say we are destroying the planet because that is the theme to a large portion of alien movies.
Why would 62 children be on a playground unsupervised?
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Carl G. Jung believed that there is an indisputable connection between our minds and our bodies. Most people today would agree with that assessment. Our bodies affect our minds, and our minds affect our bodies. Our external situation affects our bodies, which affects our minds, and vice versa.
Taking it a step further, Carl Jung believed that we affect our physical environment, and that ultimately, we affect the solar system. The solar system affects us, we affect the solar system. Our lives are not "caused" by the stars - the stars do not initiate anything, but there is an ongoing two-way relationship between ourselves and the stars.
I realized all of this before I graduated middle school.
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: mushiepussy]
#15175032 - 10/04/11 04:25 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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The teacher let them watch a scary alien movie, then told them to draw pictures of it for a class assignment.
They say they were "beamed" the message because that is what televisions do.
They say they aren't making it up because the teacher is.
They say we are destroying the planet because that is the theme to a large portion of alien movies.
First off, it was not one particular teacher, it was a variety of year groups who witnessed the UFO. If what you say appears to be true then it would have to be an elaborate prank pulled off by the entire staff of the school, including the principle. Not only would it have to be the entire staff group but it would have to be the parents as well.
So lets propose that all this was true. That entire staff and parents decided to pull of an elaborate prank to fool the world. What exactly would they gain from this elaborate prank? Fame, notoriety, money? Did any of them gain any of these things? Hardly.
If the staff did want to pull off an elaborate prank of this nature. Why a UFO? Why not something that fits within the confines of the Zimbabwean cultural system, don't you think that would attract more attention to the country, if, let's say "An African spirit swooped down and presented itself to 62 children which indicates clear evidence that ghosts are real in Zimbabwe" or "A mythological creature such as the Tokoloshe is witnessed by 62 children, come to Zimbabwe to experience the mysterious culture".
Not to mention we already have numerous myths in Zimbabwe such as the Nyami nyami which is believed to be a giant serpent that lives within the Lake of Kariba, this used to attract thousands of gullible tourists before the dire political situation of the country and it fits neatly within the Zimbabwean cultural paradigm. Do you see my point?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyami_Nyami
Here is a perfect example where the local people of Zimbabwe being able to appeal and pillage off gullible foreigners for fame, and financial benefit.
A UFO hardly seems like an idea that would appeal to foreigners to attract them to Zimbabwe and this incident hardly made any difference! I have never once heard of Zimbabwe being an attractive UFO destination and I lived only 2 hours from Ruwa! This barely made the media in Zimbabwe itself.
The description of the Alien by the children hardly fits the conventional pop cultural of sci/fi alien movies such as E.T or Close Encounters of the Third Kind etc.
Also lets take a look at how the children described the alien.
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Soon, what the students described as a "small man" could be seen on the top of the UFO. The occupant of the craft was described as being about one meter (3 ft.) tall, with a slender neck, long black hair, and very large eyes. He walked down the craft, and proceeded in the direction of the children.
Where exactly in popular culture have you seen an Alien described in that way?
Not to mention
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Hind would later state that these rural schoolchildren had little or no exposure to TV or popular press reports of UFOs.
Especially considering this was 1994. Here is some other statements from the report:
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“When they were interviewed by Mack with all his professional skills it was clear they were telling the truth — their voice tone, their body language. They were so consistent, they told their stories with such conviction. And they spoke about it in their own language. One child recalled being told by the alien that we should not be so ‘techknowledged’ — why make up something like that?”
Not to mention some of the children still believe that what they witnessed was part of their imagination to this day. For instance:
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“They were affected profoundly,” says Nickerson. “At the time one girl was told by her parents not to talk about it, that she had imagined it all. But then she found other people’s stories on the Internet. She got in touch with them and realised ‘Oh my God, that was real’.
This hardly seems likely to be pulled off as a prank. I know the Zimbabwean community fairly well, they are not devious people, they are in fact quite conservative. If they wanted to attract attention, it would be for the crimes of humanity committed in the country such as the Ndebele massacre in the 80's and numerous others. They would prefer to expose the crimes of Robert Mugabe and his brutes and their inhumanity they have caused. The Zimbabwean community has been trying to get the attention of the world through the inhumanity experienced in the country not through UFO accounts. Believe me I know and you people don't give a flying fuck! Now it's too late.
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I realized all of this before I graduated middle school.
What do you want a lollipop?
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communeart
Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1,021
Loc: 
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15175131 - 10/04/11 05:28 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Brothers, read this manifesto.http://webs.ono.com/denna/The%20Biosocialist%20Manifesto%20V.1.0.pdf It has opened my mind a notch further in my quest. Whether aliens exist or not is irrelevant, we must act as if they do. because they most certainly do.
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15175676 - 10/04/11 10:38 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
I've seen the movie tarzan, I have a pretty damned good idea of what the state of affairs in zimbabwe is
Ummm yeah I'm pretty sure you don't. If you think you understand the state of affairs in Zimbabwe then you don't understand the state of affairs of Zimbabwe. Not even most Zimbabweans understand the state of affairs in Zimbabwe let alone some arrogant dude who lives his life on a message board in America.
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15175925 - 10/04/11 12:02 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Extraordinary coincidence with this lecture and the UFO sighting in Ruwa. Consider the coincidence between this quote by the little girl who witnessed the UFO and Terence Mckenna philosophical notion of the UFO. Here is a quote from the little girl who claimed to have had telepathic communication with the creature.
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Another student, known only by the pseudonym “Elsa,” claimed that she felt horrible for the rest of the day, unable to shake the horrific images that had been implanted in her brain by the beings. She believed that they wanted to convey to the human race a grave warning to stop destroying the planet or face the consequences: “The world is going to end, maybe because we don’t look after our planet or the air. Like all the trees will go down and there will be no air. People will be dying. Those thoughts came from the man — the man’s eyes.”
Skip to 10 minutes into this video. Terence Mckenna is quoted in saying:
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A UFO contactee is someone who has seen the end, they simply did not know what they were looking at because who knows what they are looking at. The world of historical possibility concreces into a mercurial hologrammatic disk, part bios, part machine, part syntax, part mind. The categories dissolve, the world is not what it appears to be. I find it interesting that UFO investigators are quick to refute the psychological explanation, which I gather is the "anti-Christ around here and the first thing that someone said to me was "I want you to know that this Carl Jung approach to the UFO is bullshit!" I said "OK that's fine, however this thing is like beating a dead horse. Has the news of quantum physics not reached the UFO community? Is it not now thoroughly assimilated that an observer is necessary for reality to exist at all?
I believe from studying Carl Jung that what these kids had witnessed was a mass hallucination of some sort and that apocalyptic vision is eerily similar to what Terence Mckenna has described in numerous lectures of his. For instance consider this video titled "the birth of the imagination".
Terence Mckenna was one crazy mother but god damn his rap makes so much sense. Even if the skeptics call "bullshit" they still can't deny the fascinating intellectual imagination this man had. This story is more compelling than any sci/fi novel I have ever come across, it 's so surreal that my mind is flabbergasted and astonished at the possibilities while listening to one of his lectures. Terence you will be missed. Why is this man so underrated? Why?
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Tri High
Whigro
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Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15175952 - 10/04/11 12:11 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Hmm
You seem to know a lot about it having only heard about it and then re-heard about it the other day....
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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Tri High]
#15175992 - 10/04/11 12:17 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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That is because I have been obsessed with it for past two days and I already said that my older brother mentioned it to me when I was around 10 or 12 years old and I had not bothered to have followed it up until about 2 days ago. I have literally been obsessed with this because I have heard Terence Mckenna talk about the UFO phenomena in the past. I have always been extremely skeptical of UFO claims until recently, however I have always enjoyed listening to Terence because I find his ideas fascinating. It is certainly not hard to do your research in the 21st century my friend. Also I have been on this message board for quite some time why would I have not brought it up earlier?
Edited by markst (10/04/11 12:19 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15182296 - 10/05/11 07:01 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
This is where you have proved yourself to be extremely naive. Have you traveled to Zimbabwe before? Do you know of any Zimbabweans, any white Zimbabweans in particular? Because I can assure you that 98% of white Zimbabweans are extremely skeptical of the Tikoloshe and I know this because I'm one of them. Give me an example of a white Zimbabwean who thoroughly believes in the Tikoloshe as well as other African superstitions, you will be hard pressed to find one. Also keep in mind that Charlie Theron is not Zimbabwean, she is from South Africa and I'm pretty sure she is only using her celebrity status to promote the cultural background of the Swahili in South Africa to gullible Americans. Most white South Africans do not hold any African superstitious beliefs either.
the facts speak for themselves, you admt that a good 2% of whites in
zimbabwe are superstitious meaning I can ask 100 and find 2, possibly more
that are superstitious, if there's 3 million white people in zimbabwe that
would mean 60,000 are superstitious. your own responses are different than
your original claims
Quote:
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why would you omit the passage about the tokoloshi even though it's deeply
rooted in the cultures of many african nations and even many white
children brought up in these nations have begun to believe these
superstitions
I did not purposely omit the passage about the Tikoloshe and I already answered that question in the above post here:
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Also some of the black children from Ariel who had seen the extra terrestrial had believed it was a Tikoloshe which is an extremely common myth in Zimbabwe. This made them especially terrefied of what they had witnessed. For those who do not know what a Tikoloshe is, it is a small creature (roughly the height of a child) of this kind:
you had it in a post after the on I originally responded to, I didnt read the whole thread before responding to each post
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Are you incompetent of reading my posts? Like I said before the majority of white children do not hold these African superstitious beliefs. If they thought it was a Tikoloshe then the incident would have been labeled "62 Children testify to have seen a Tikoloshe" not "62 Children testify to have seen a UFO". There is a clear difference! Hence why I don't even acknowledge your point or where you are going with this?
no, your original claim is that the children were not superstitious because
thy were christians taught from the bible, even your UFO researchers
mentioned the tokoloshe based on what at least one of the kids said, now
we need to ask, what video footage was filmed that we didnt see, I've
never seen a documentary of this nature that wasnt filmed with a specific
agenda in mind, this one to show some kind of proof of ETs visiting earth
even though some of the pics the kids drew show the craft landed on feet
but no evidence of the craft landing was present
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I'm simply stating that if it had been a ghost, I would be highly skeptical because ghosts fit within the paradigm of the Christian belief system. If it had been a Tikoloshe I would be highly skeptical because some of the black children would be aware of the myth.
But it was neither a Tikoloshe or a ghost, it was a UFO. Do you know see my point, a UFO does not fit the paradigm of any cultural belief system in Zimbabwe.
but arent we referring to post colonial modern zimbabwe of 1994? surely
these children had heard of UFOs since there had already been several
other reports of UFOs in the region, exposure to tourists, some with those
sorts of beliefs as well as to many other whites living in the nation with
those beliefs in UFOs... it's like the 98% of the whites dont believe in
superstition, that leaves 2% that do
Quote:
I have already answered this, the truth of matter is the children in Ariel were brought up with Christian belief system. Their parents would be outraged if any other belief system dominated over their Christian values and that is including most of the black children as well. All of us white kids shared a very similar British cultural background. None of us were brought up to believe in UFO's or Tikoloshes.
load of crap, being a christian doesnt remove the culture regardless of
how hard they try, just look at the whole world including africa
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there's a lot of inconsistencies between the stories, were the children
asked individually to repeat what they'd seen on multiple occasions? if so
then what were the stories of each child in comparison to the previous
This is where we have a difference in opinion because I found that the children's stories were incredibly consistent for their age. Every single one of them claimed to have seen a "black" being, some said it was wearing a black suit. Every child claimed to have seen 3 objects in the sky and one of them landing near the school playground. Every child claimed to have witnessed a being with big black eyes in the shape of rugby balls. Every child who was in the playground was traumatized by the experience, well some were extremely curious or excited by the event. The fact is they all witnessed something that can not be explained by their set of cultural beliefs.
some said the eyes were pointed at the top, others show them pointed at
the bottom and some showed rounded eyes, they also drew some as hairless
and some to be hairy. so no... there's a fuckload of inconsistencies in the stories
Quote:
The black people in particular have absolutely no clue of UFO's or anything sci/fi of the sort
bullshit, I'm calling you out, prove that blacks in africa had no clue what UFOs were before 1994
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15182307 - 10/05/11 07:04 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
I've seen the movie tarzan, I have a pretty damned good idea of what the state of affairs in zimbabwe is
Ummm yeah I'm pretty sure you don't. If you think you understand the state of affairs in Zimbabwe then you don't understand the state of affairs of Zimbabwe. Not even most Zimbabweans understand the state of affairs in Zimbabwe let alone some arrogant dude who lives his life on a message board in America.
and yet you're professing to know the state of affairs in zimbabwe,
knowing what people think and believe, etc even though you left while
still pretty young...
I believe you overlook the truth in your quest to believe
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15182333 - 10/05/11 07:08 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
Carl G. Jung believed that there is an indisputable connection between our minds and our bodies. Most people today would agree with that assessment. Our bodies affect our minds, and our minds affect our bodies. Our external situation affects our bodies, which affects our minds, and vice versa.
a broken clock is right twice a day
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#15183242 - 10/05/11 09:43 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
the facts speak for themselves, you admt that a good 2% of whites in
zimbabwe are superstitious meaning I can ask 100 and find 2, possibly more
that are superstitious, if there's 3 million white people in zimbabwe that
would mean 60,000 are superstitious. your own responses are different than
your original claims
Prisoner#1 this argument is very tiring because you don't know what your talking about. This link will give you a better understanding of the culture of white Zimbabweans. I will retract my statement of their being 98% of white Zimbabweans who are not superstitious and will instead say that 99.8% of white Zimbabweans are not brought up to believe in African mythology.I will admit I can't account for the 0.2% there may be a couple of white Zimbabweans who are brought up differently with extremely superstitious parents but it is not a very good argument on your part because it is highly unlikely. Also it isn't necessarily relevant towards what we are actually discussing which is UFO's. I was simply stating that white children at Ariel are brought as Christians and that is a FACT so stop your internal dialogue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people_in_Zimbabwe
The funny thing is that your trying to come across as a hard headed rational skeptic yet your actually coming across more gullible and naive than most people. It is the equivalent of me arguing to you "an American" that most white Americans share the same cultural beliefs as the native Indians, beating drums trying to commune with the spirit world (the only difference is we didn't wipe out the native culture). Do you understand how stupid it is?
Quote:
no, your original claim is that the children were not superstitious because
thy were christians taught from the bible, even your UFO researchers
mentioned the tokoloshe based on what at least one of the kids said, now
we need to ask, what video footage was filmed that we didnt see, I've
never seen a documentary of this nature that wasnt filmed with a specific
agenda in mind, this one to show some kind of proof of ETs visiting earth
even though some of the pics the kids drew show the craft landed on feet
but no evidence of the craft landing was present
First off everything is filmed with an agenda in mind, so that is a redundant point you have made. I have already specifically mentioned that the black children had thought that it may have been a Tikoloshe, I was not claiming otherwise. What sort of evidence do you need that gives undeniable proof an alien craft landed there? Also what would we compare this evidence with? Not to mention that those who conducted the investigation did not have the necessary equipment to do so. Keep in mind that my argument was that I believe that it was a mass hallucination. In fact I believe that most UFO encounters are an hallucination of some sort. Hence why I was refereeing to Carl Jung' theory of the UFO being an archetype experienced from humanity's collective unconscious.
Quote:
but arent we referring to post colonial modern zimbabwe of 1994? surely
these children had heard of UFOs since there had already been several
other reports of UFOs in the region, exposure to tourists, some with those
sorts of beliefs as well as to many other whites living in the nation with
those beliefs in UFOs... it's like the 98% of the whites dont believe in
superstition, that leaves 2% that do
These kids were aged 6 to 12 years old and I'm not denying that a few kids would have had limited exposure to the idea of an UFO from popular media, however in 1994 it would have been extremely limited. As far as I recall we only had local Zimbabwean television back then. However it was reported that the majority of the children had no clue whatsoever of what a UFO was or how to describe one, especially the younger ones. Now explain to me how the very few kids who knew of UFO's being able to convince the other children to lie about a) an object that they have never heard of before landing in the school playground b) an alien creature from out of space that directly contradicts their belief in God creating us in his own image, c) to act traumatized and scared of this object. d) to act in a extremely convincing manner (worthy of winning an Oscar)to persuade their parents, teachers and the entire world to gain international media coverage.
Honestly I don't know whether I'm arguing from the skeptical POV or if you are because I think you will find that you will have to have a hell of lot of faith in these kids to pull that off.
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load of crap, being a christian doesnt remove the culture regardless of
how hard they try, just look at the whole world including africa
Again don't know what your point is? Being a christian is a culture, it is the culture that we were brought up with and it stems from our British and Irish decedents. What culture exactly would Christianity not remove from this?
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some said the eyes were pointed at the top, others show them pointed at
the bottom and some showed rounded eyes, they also drew some as hairless
and some to be hairy. so no... there's a fuckload of inconsistencies in the stories
What exactly were you expecting? That every single child draw the exact same consistent picture? Hell, if you went and gathered a group of 60 kids and showed them a horse and then told them all to draw that horse, do you think that every single one of those kids aged 6 to 12 will draw that horse in exactly the same way? Of course not, there will be some inconsistencies that is because we are all individuals with our own perceptions. The fact of the matter is that they all drew something that was fairly similar.
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bullshit, I'm calling you out, prove that blacks in africa had no clue what UFOs were before 1994
Prove to me that black people have an understanding of UFO's in Zimbabwe before 1994 and in fact even today, then if you can, prove to me that they take this myth seriously. You will find that the majority of the Shona and Ndebele do not no have an understanding of this paranormal topic nor do they have a belief in it. Not to mention you have your argument completely backwards lol. It is the equivalent of saying - "prove to me that all atheists don't have a belief in God".
Some of these Shone and Ndebele people interpret these paranormal occurrences in their own cultural way. For instance take a look at this video:
Edited by markst (10/05/11 11:47 PM)
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15183304 - 10/05/11 09:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
markst said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
I've seen the movie tarzan, I have a pretty damned good idea of what the state of affairs in zimbabwe is
Ummm yeah I'm pretty sure you don't. If you think you understand the state of affairs in Zimbabwe then you don't understand the state of affairs of Zimbabwe. Not even most Zimbabweans understand the state of affairs in Zimbabwe let alone some arrogant dude who lives his life on a message board in America.
and yet you're professing to know the state of affairs in zimbabwe,
knowing what people think and believe, etc even though you left while
still pretty young...
Well I would have one hell of a better understanding than you would. I was brought with the black people in Zimbabwe, my grandfather was a politician in Rhodesia in the 1970's who fought for the rights and beliefs of the Shona and Ndebele. Not to mention my father was also involved in political activities around the time before we left. I left the country when I was 16 and have been back since then. In fact I was in Zim just this last December.
Quote:
I believe you overlook the truth in your quest to believe
And vice versa with your argument. I'm simply open to the possibility and think you are incredibly naive to simply push aside this incident as being completely phony.
Edited by markst (10/05/11 09:58 PM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,663
Loc: Americas
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Tri High] 2
#15183330 - 10/05/11 10:02 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
LOL.
Markst +1
Great, an ad hominem.
Perhaps its not clear how arguments work, let me explain. You construct some logical chain from your premises to the conclusion.
Nothing there has anything to do with the nationality or life experience of the arguer. You're criticism is ridiculous and plainly an illogical ad hominem argument that has no relevance to the point.
You've been corrected on this point before. If you don't wish to make a coherent argument at least stop with the dishonest ones.
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markst
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 65
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: johnm214]
#15183705 - 10/05/11 11:13 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
LOL.
Markst +1
Great, an ad hominem.
Perhaps its not clear how arguments work, let me explain. You construct some logical chain from your premises to the conclusion.
Nothing there has anything to do with the nationality or life experience of the arguer. You're criticism is ridiculous and plainly an illogical ad hominem argument that has no relevance to the point.
You've been corrected on this point before. If you don't wish to make a coherent argument at least stop with the dishonest ones.
You do recognize how absurd your statement is. If you were a true rationalist you would understand what it is meant by an illogical ad hominem argument because nothing is more illogical than for you to claim that Tri High is using an ad hominem. In fact I question if you even have a proper understanding of the use of the term.
Lets observe this issue in a "logical" manner ok?
Prisoner#1 is from America and to my understanding he has never been to Zimbabwe and probably has no educational background whatsoever of the culture. Do you agree?
Now lets say you wanted to do a thesis on the Zimbabwean culture. Who would you approach to gather an understanding of the culture - An American who lives his life on a message board or an actual Zimbabwean who lived the culture?
I don't know whether you people purposely try to act naively arrogant or if your actually partially retarded. I think the later is more accurate.
Edited by markst (10/06/11 07:47 AM)
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15184118 - 10/06/11 12:28 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
markst said:
Carl G. Jung believed that there is an indisputable connection between our minds and our bodies. Most people today would agree with that assessment. Our bodies affect our minds, and our minds affect our bodies. Our external situation affects our bodies, which affects our minds, and vice versa.
a broken clock is right twice a day
Yeah. And. What? If your assuming that Carl Jung based this assumption on dumb luck or the obvious then you don't understand Carl Jung. You are defined by the external world, if it were not for the external world you wouldn't know where your body began and where it ended. Yet we only separate ourselves from the external world by the use of language hence why we say "my body, my feet, my mind etc". This in all actuality is an illusion, the fact that you believe your mind belongs to you is also an illusion that's called your individual "ego". Carl Jung believes that our consciousness actually belongs to a bigger organism known as the collective unconscious of all humanity. Just like ants are assimilated with one another collectively, making up one organism. The same can be said with human beings. All human beings make up a super ego of some sort.
I believe that children are more closely connected with this collective unconsciousness because their minds are less conditioned by the culture they grew up in. I believe we connect with this "super mind" through the use of psychedelics. Think of it as a pyramid.
You have individual consciousness - then collective consciousness - then cosmic consciousness(where the UFO's reveal themselves).
Edited by markst (10/06/11 12:31 AM)
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dzza
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15184365 - 10/06/11 01:36 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Watch the kids a minute and a half into the first video and tell me this isn't spot on:
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zzripz
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst] 1
#15185256 - 10/06/11 09:48 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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WOW markst, I cannot ever remember being SO excited at reading a thread at the Shroomery as I have this one. At one point i bent over in ecstatic shivers lol...seriously!! I just think not only is what is being said here so VERY radically important, but the WAY you are communicating on this thread, your intelligence, PATIENCE, wit, and your natural questioning open-minded curiousity is vastly inspiring to me. I am SO glad to have met you here, and I will have much to share with you I hope, and want to also spread out what your saying and asking to others online etc.
Whenever (and I have introduced about that VERY important UFo contact case at threads here also), I meet skeptics--though 99.999% are pseudoskeptics who--for whatever reason cling to a scientific materialistic worldview and envalangize it everywhere--I ALWAYS first link them to this case with the schoolchildren. I think it is so imprtant. Not only because of the childrem's testimony themselves, and the research about it from such ntoables as Dr Mack, but the MESSAGE is so extraordinarily important---that we humans are sersiouly fuking up Mother Earth. And I believe these entities chose these children, and created this high strange communication as one of the best means to get this message deeply into ALL our psyches!!
I am interested in your serious inquiry into what this means--and you mention Terrence McKenna, and Jung. As much as I admire both of them, I still always question authority--just like they did, and so I question theirs also. For example, Terrence McKenna was a psychedelic Transhumanist, meaning that I feel --hopefully unknowingly--part of his message supported an elistist agenda which seeks to get us plugged into their exploitatative technology (I will send you links about Transhumanism or H+ for short). So that makes me a bit reserved about his overall views, though like I say, I very much admire his unique character. Like you say he seems to agree with the Jungian position that this kind of phenomena comes from the 'collective unconsious'. Although I can dig that, I think it was even more mysterious and totally confounds our notions of inner and outer, mind and matter.
I would like you to see a good critique of Jung:
Chapter 3: The Feminist Critique of the Separated Self See what you think?
What do i think is going on?
Well IF you were to ask what I am, or am attracted to, it would be Goddess spirituality, and ecopaganism. In these dimensions the spirits of nature, or faeries are respected as being their OWN being, more-than-human rather than as 'belonging' to the 'collective human unconscious'. See the difference?
I intend to share this amazing thread of yours with a Facebook goup which is focused on the UFO event at Jerusalem. THANKS so much for this amazing thread 
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: zzripz]
#15185794 - 10/06/11 12:23 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you zzripz for your kind words. I will admit I was a little shocked to come up against such heavy criticism from skeptics on this paranormal incident, considering this is a board that propagates the use of psychedelic substances lol.
It just makes this message board so much more appealing though, I believe the skeptical reductionist POV should also be taken into consideration. So I commend all the skeptics such as Prisoner#1 in this thread and I would just like to say that I'm extremely appreciative that you would at least take the time to argue your position in regards to this incident. The last thing I want is for everyone to be stroking each other, some challenge is good for the soul. I would also argue with zzripz about the status of my patience lol.
Quote:
Well IF you were to ask what I am, or am attracted to, it would be Goddess spirituality, and ecopaganism. In these dimensions the spirits of nature, or faeries are respected as being their OWN being, more-than-human rather than as 'belonging' to the 'collective human unconscious'. See the difference?
Yes I do. Thanks for sharing, however I also acknowledge these extra terrestrials as being their own individual being as well but I also believe that they are as much a part of us as we are a part of them. What I find so compelling about Terence Mckenna's position is that he takes the psychological route in explaining the UFO phenomena, this is so much more appealing to the reductionist within me.
The truth of the matter is thousands of people have witnessed meteorites hurling through space and we have vast amounts of empirical evidence to explain the existence of meteorites. However when it comes to UFO's, even though they have been witnessed by thousands as well(I'm not disregarding their claims) we do not posses enough empirical evidence for any of these claims, which makes the phenomena very peculiar. The only evidence we have of UFO's are witness reports dating back thousands of years! I believe these extra terrestrials are ourselves but they are just us experiencing the one consciousness in a different part of the universe. So in a sense, I do have faith in the existence of other intelligent beings out there but I also like to think of it as having "rational" faith because it just seems fairly evident that the universe would experiment with other intelligent life other than ourselves. But keep in mind you are are the universe experiencing itself as you, me, nature and alien beings.
The universe is actually experimenting with life because the universe is trying to become aware of itself. So we have all these different types of intelligent life out there in the galaxy which are all evolving for the same reason, some will fail and some will accomplish this evolutionary purpose. The planet is like a cradle for us beings, it is almost like nature is giving birth to something, but we might destroy the planet and ourselves before it can achieve this. Probably anyway unless the aliens swoop down and save us
Keep in mind that I'm extremely skeptical of programs like Ancient Aliens and that sort.
I will look further into the link that gives a detailed critique of Jung that you have posted and I wouldn't mind inquiring about the Jerusalem UFO Facebook group as well, so please post the link! Cheers.
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zzripz
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15187072 - 10/06/11 05:05 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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There are different theories what 'they' are as I am sure you know. I have noticed that some well-known researcher tend to take one side--so you got some who say they are ALL ETs, others, like William Lyne, say they are ALL government agents (black ops), others they are ALL imagination, and others they are ALL ultraterrestrials or faeries.
You have some like Greer and Vallee, who believe in amixed bag, but also claim to know stuff--especially Greer. he for example makes out the 'Greys' are 'PLFs' programmed life forms genetically created in black ops for the purposes of manipulating us for a phony alien invasion
I am very attracted to the faery idea, but also understanding that that means something far deeper than we presently understand. Ie., that we really do not understand OUR reality---this being because of suppression of free eeducation--exploration OF reality---eg war on psychedelics, and alternative lifestyles, and propaganda to control consciousness. THIS manipulation is supporting the elite's insane ecocidal actions, and I feel that many of these beings are all too well aware of this and are fidning ways to wake us up in deeper ways
One of the things I find really amusing are the 'high strange' encounters (which includes what happened in Zimbabwi), and this is a direct undermining, I sense, of the 'rational-obsessive' matrix that is enforced on us--kind of like surreal Trickster goings on which push us out of in-the-box thinking.
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