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 hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
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Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
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 Wine help wanted 
#15167907 - 10/02/11 06:38 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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i baught every thing i need to start making wine yesturday, but i forgot the yeast, yeastnutrient(do i need it?) and pectic enzymes.now i have to wait until tuesday till the store is open and since i wasnt 100% sure how i was gonna make this, i thought some winemakers could help me out
i have a 4 gallon secondary , and i have a couple bags of apples. i was gonna boil the apples down for juice and let it drip drain
probly wont be near to filling the the amount of my secondary so i was gonna add 2 litres of welch white grape juice(for nutrients or should i just skip this? does grape taste go with the apple?
and fill the rest to the top with store baught apple juice?
do i need acid? i was thinking grapefruit? or should i just use chemicals?
then i was thinking about trying to figure out how to use my hydrometer
what kinda surger should i use? honey? has anyone ever tried maple syrup?
thats about all i can think of for now
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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anyones???
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 trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,194
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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do i need acid? i was thinking grapefruit? or should i just use chemicals?
You shouldn't need any...though a little lemon juice goes a long way! I use chemicals (usually an acid blend - citric/malic/tartaric) but lemon juice has worked in a pinch for me.
then i was thinking about trying to figure out how to use my hydrometer
Change that to "definitely going to figure out how to use my hydrometer"!!!!
You should always do your hydrometer readings in a separate container - tall skinny ones like a vase. You can break a hydrometer fairly easily, and it almost invariably results in getting a lot of lead shot (or worse) into the wine you are testing! Don't fall for the temptation of just dropping the hydrometer into your secondary to "get a quick reading" 
A hydrometer reads the relative density of wine (liquids in general). On the "Specific Gravity" scale on your hydrometer, notice it goes from like 0.900 up to 1.100 or higher. The 0.900 should be at the "top" of the hydrometer, and the high number will be towards the "bottom". Pure water will read 1.000 and water with something in it will read >1.000. There may also be a Brix scale and Potential alcohol % scale, though you don't have to use them in starting out.
Try and aim for a starting (before you toss your yeast) S.G. of 1.085-1.090 and you should be fine for most white wines (approx 10-12% abv).
what kinda surger should i use? honey? has anyone ever tried maple syrup?
I use white table sugar...mainly because it's cheap and I can get many kg of it should I need it! Honey is also a great way to get sugar up (as, I suspect, is maple syrup) though it WILL add it's own character to the wine (ie. use shitty honey = get shitty wine!). That is the other reason I use white sugar, it doesn't really add (or take away) from the flavour.
Happy brewing! 
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You're here because you know something.
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That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
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geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙
Registered: 05/08/01
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The only wine I've made is a very simple apple wine, consisting of preservative free apple juice (fresh pressed or store bottled), added sugar (or honey), and yeast (English Dry Cider or Champagne). Pectic enzymes, added acid, chemicals, and boiling down your own apples and blending with other juices seems more complicated than necessary for your first attempt. It is apple harvest season in the growing regions of the northern hemisphere, so if you're near an orchard, you should go get some fresh pressed juice to use for your wine. I'd bet it would be WAAAAAY better than the cooked down version you are proposing. A little bit of yeast nutrient is not a bad idea either. A hydrometer is also nice, if you want to know your final alcohol content (you will need to take a before and after fermentation measurement to figure out your ABV).
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
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Loc: Caribbean
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> do i need acid? i was thinking grapefruit? or should i just use chemicals?
Yes. I use lemon juice. You don't need much.
> but i forgot the yeast, yeastnutrient(do i need it?)
Get a good yeast. Don't use bread (bakers) yeast.
I use around a cup of strongly brewed black tea (into 5 gallons) in place of yeast nutrient.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Dont boil the apple juice, it tastes better fresh.
grapes and apples go well together.
nutrient is not necessary for your brew, but it would help speed it up.
make sure the juice you add has no perservitives.
sugar is based on your personal taste, any normal kind will work.
youll see, wine making is very simple.
the biggest problem noobs have is to fuss and fiddle with their brew too much.
wine likes it when you leave it be as much as possible.
wine is really most basically three ingredients plus time.
juice
sugar
yeast
anything above that is personal taste.
oh and make sure to sanitise everything, i use scalding hot water which has never failed me.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15175502 - 10/04/11 09:26 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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dont boil the apples? how do i get the juice out?
buying the cider might be price (i was wrong my secondarys 5 gallons)
and 25 litres times (what ciders prolly like 3-5 bux a litre)
75-125 buck for the juice WOW$$$
i think i am going to boild down apples, and use store baught juice thatws 99 cents a litre
i thought thats how they make the juice,cider anyways? boil down apples?
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geokills
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Registered: 05/08/01
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Cider is not a universal term. It can mean an alcoholic apple wine, or a spiced and cooked apple juice, depending on who you're asking / where you are in the world. Juice is extracted from fresh apples through the use of a press, not boiling. Hence why I suggested in my last post, that if you are near an apple growing region in the northern hemisphere, you should contact your local orchards because they are likely selling fresh pressed juice straight from the harvest at this time of year (I'm planning to go up to the RB Family Orchard in Tehachapi next week!).
Buying "cider" isn't actually buying cider when you're making an apple wine, you just buy regular, preservative free 100% apple juice (it can even be from concentrate), which here in the US, I can find on sale for $4 per gallon, or roughly $1 per liter. I've tried many varieties of store bought juice (the fancy organic stuff as well as the ubiquitous Tree Top brand concentrate based stuff), and haven't been able to tell much of a difference. However if you have farms nearby, it is worth the while to get your juice from them, as you can often find unpasteurized product, which definitely makes for a more interesting wine.
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┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: geokills]
#15177237 - 10/04/11 06:48 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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ok
HERES WHAT IVE DONE SO FAR
baught fruitjuicer on sale , and juiced 2 litres sour crab apples
2 litres sweeter crab appole
21 litres to go, im gonna go to the store now to buy 21 litres cheap apple juice perserved only vitmin c
so i add
juices
acid
petic enzyme
capden tablet
check S.G. add surgar as nessary
pitch yeast
does that sound right?
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Sounds great!
some people also use a mesh bag and a masher to juice.
i do what you did though and use a juicer 
keep in mind that five gallons will make around 36 bottles, so dropping a hundred on good quality juice works out to less than $3 a bottle which still isnt bad IMO.
i just dropped $120 on brandy to make port out of my blackberry wine and it was sooo worth it.
In my opinion, your final product is only as good as the juics you put in.
dont worry though, your wine will most defenitely exceed your expectations and turn out great.
once youve made a few batches and start to become a wine snob youll know what i mean lol.
some people spend generations trying to breed the perfect grape.
anyways you seem to be doing fine, ill be around to help, im a booze brewing freak with nearly 100 gallons of experience and i love to chit chat about wine making.
im currently brewing;
blackberry port
apple bearberry wine
salal berry and oregon grape port
mountain ash berry and rose hip wine
canadian red lager beer
aand im going to do a chocolate wine experiment with nesquick next
next spring im going to get into tapping maple and birch syrip to use in my wine.
im especially curious about how birch sap is going to taste.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15177839 - 10/04/11 09:07 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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i forgot to ask about the sugar do i dissolve it in hot water first?
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Some people do, either dissolved in some juice or water, its up to you.
i usually just dump it in and shake the 50lb carboy a bunch of times lol. heavy...
dissolving it first sound sensible though lol.
some people use dextrose or icing sugar because it dissolves really well.
someone told me the yeast likes it and the ferment is faster when you shake it up every couple of days i guess because it more evenly puts yeast and sugar into suspention.
i just shake it up every couple of days for the first week or two like i say and it kills two birds with one stone.
unless you are using a bucket for your primary fermenter, in which case you can give it a gentle stir every couple of days and also break up any pulp cap you might have.
the pulp cap can limit the oxygen that yeast needs to be happy, its not necessary but it helps.
also know that once you are done fermenting you dont want to stir it up too much because it will oxidise your wine which is usually not desired.
some red wines are somewhat oxidised on purpose, but white wines its a no no.
Edited by Shins (10/04/11 10:08 PM)
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15178446 - 10/04/11 10:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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wow, it took me 2kg of sugar to gert up to 1085, is that normal?
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Its normal to use about 0.5 - 1 kg of sugar per gallon for wine, but it depends on the juice.
your hydrometer will give
you a more accurate reading so always go by that if you are being precise.
Edited by Shins (10/05/11 04:55 AM)
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,194
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
hidenseek said:
wow, it took me 2kg of sugar to gert up to 1085, is that normal?
Yes, completely normal!!
That's for 5 gallons, right? I just had to add about 1.5 pounds of sugar to my wild grape wine. I made a gallon, so that would be like adding 7.5 pounds (or about 3.5kg!) for 5 gallons.
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: trendal]
#15190713 - 10/07/11 11:04 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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its carbonated but scum is taking over , smells strong, but not sure if its a alcohol smell or a rotten smell
after stiring
how do i know when its done in the primary ? and i want to strain it before putting it in my secondary, can this be done? or would i have have to strain it after its done fermenting?
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,194
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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but not sure if its a alcohol smell or a rotten smell
That "rotten" smell is the smell of yeast doing their job!
Don't worry...you'll learn to love it
how do i know when its done in the primary ?
About 3-5 days should do it. There is a LOT of variability...some leave it in the primary for a month, some skip the primary altogether! I just racked my wild grape into its secondary, and it was in the primary for about 4 days.
I like to get mine into a secondary BEFORE all fermentation has ended, but after VIGOROUS fermentation has ended. That way, I avoid the foam on top coming out of the airlock (I've had this happen...oh boy what a mess!!)...but I still have some yeast activity to build up a CO2 cap on top of the wine.
and i want to strain it before putting it in my secondary, can this be done?
Yes!! This is the "correct" procedure: start the fermentation in a primary, then strain it off into a secondary to finish fermenting. I find that cheese cloth works great for straining it. You don't want to actually filter it...only to get the large chunks out!
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,194
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: trendal]
#15191695 - 10/07/11 03:21 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Here is a quick little video I made, showing what I meant by "BEFORE all fermentation has ended, but after VIGOROUS fermentation has ended":
"Vigorous fermentation" usually means you get that "cap" of foam growing on top of the wine. Notice here that the bubbles all burst long before they reach the top.
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: trendal]
#15205486 - 10/10/11 03:48 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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im gonna strain and rack into secondary tomorrow
do i add more potassium metibisulphite? anything else i should do?
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Dont add any sulphites unless you want a stuck ferment!
just rack it and leave it.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15221451 - 10/13/11 09:04 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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i racked into secondary yesterday
fitted weird airlock
and took a picture of my box
do you think i should have filled it up a lil more??
i was afraid it might bubble out, but it seems i could have filled up up an inch or so more
my next wine i was thinking mint and ive seen different recopies some calling for mint in the primary and some the secondary
so as a fail safe i was thinking put mint in both
does this sound like a solid recipe for a gallon, i devised from piecing together different recipes
cut or tear 1 quart mint into small pieces put in primary and add boiling water to one gallon ,stir
wait to cool, add,
*metibisulphite
*acid
*raisins(im hesitent to add cause i want a mint wine or do you guys think it will jive?)
*sugar to desired s.g.
*pitch yeast and nutrient
*strain into secondary leaving torn mint leaves behind
*add 1 quart torn in half mint leaves to secondary, top up carboy if needed
*fit airlock
*ferment to dry and back sweeten if wanted(is thier any reason not to ferment to dry other then alc %, you can always back sweeten right?)
bottle and enjoy
im probably just gonna make a wine but if i can find some honey on sale i want to make a mint mead
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,194
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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do you think i should have filled it up a lil more??
i was afraid it might bubble out, but it seems i could have filled up up an inch or so more
As long as it is still fermenting you shouldn't have to worry about oxygen getting at it - that's the reason you should top it off, normally.
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: trendal]
#15228166 - 10/15/11 04:30 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah usually you top it off when bulk aging if you are going to.
wine looks great!
it seems like youve read up some about wine making and youre off to a great start.
I want to reccomend a fining (clearing) agenf called sparkelloid.
when my last juiced apple wine was done it was still pretty cloudy, but the sparkelloid cleared it overnight... works good.
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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PS: Wine making is kind of an art so its hard to say that one recipe is perfect or not.
For me experimenting with ingredients is half the fun so im not going to try and tell you whats right or wrong with recipes.
basic rule is; if it tastes good unfermented, its probly going to make good booze.
id say mix up a variety of very small juice samples and pick the one that tastes best!
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15229676 - 10/15/11 04:11 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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when do i add the sparkaloid, i read on one website its best to leave it 30 days before bottling, but it seems most people only wait a couple days
should i rack my wine again sometime in the next month add my spakoliod and let it go for another 30 days before stablizing
or can i add it at the same time i add my stabilizer(which will be about a week before i bottle, when ferment slows/stops)
and im not rely sure about the stabilizer, do i just use potassium sorbate? or i do i use potassium metbisulphite too?
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Sorbate will not ferment, but it will not stop a ferment in progress.
its just an unfermentable sweetener.
the stuff i use to stablise is just labeled "stabliser" so i dont know.
you add the clearing agent after your wine is stablised.
then you rack it again before any bulk aging and bottling.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15230303 - 10/15/11 06:55 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sorbate will not ferment, but it will not stop a ferment in progress.
i think sorbate kills the yeast
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Ben312
Mr.Dillution
Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 12
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Probobly not... Me and my sister made wine for when we got off probation, and we filled a horse trough with 4 pounds of purple grapes, she put a cup or 2 of yeast in it, and put some water in it, every day we fed it a little water and sugar, and we did this every day for 6 monthsm, I GOT OFF PROBATION then she took a blender cup, scooped up some wine, boiled it for a few, filterd it through a metal screen, then she put the filterd wine back in the pot, boiled it for a few minuets, put some sugar and a little bit of water in it, and we gott some wine glasses, i drank 4 glasses and i was drunk, and i had high tolerance when i was under 21, but now im 24 remembering that, and we had NOOOO EXPERIENCE, so i wouldnt think it would bubble over.
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,194
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15230704 - 10/15/11 08:46 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Sorbate will not ferment, but it will not stop a ferment in progress.
its just an unfermentable sweetener.
the stuff i use to stablise is just labeled "stabliser" so i dont know.
you add the clearing agent after your wine is stablised.
then you rack it again before any bulk aging and bottling.
Potassium sorbate is a stabilizer, not a sweetener. It's what you get in the "stabilizer" package.
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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My bad, i was thinking about wine conditioner which is a combination of unfermentable sugars and sorbate.
someone told me that sorbate wont fully stop a fermentation, just prevent yeast growth or something like that.
is that wrong?
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: Shins]
#15233330 - 10/16/11 01:43 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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from the label
potassium sorbate inhibits fermentation. Do not add untill all fermentation is finished and the wine is clear and stable. use 1/2 g for each L. Dissolve in some hot water and stir into wine. 5 ml(1 teaspoon) = appoximately 2.8g. seal tightly when not in use. store in a cool dry place
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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so im confussed now i baught this stuff to stop fermentation, is it still good enuff to use by itself if i let my wine ferment out dry right?
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,194
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Yes. You only need to stabilize if you plan on re-sweetening your wine when it's done fermenting. Using stabilizer on wine that is already completely dry and which you intent to keep completely dry is a waste of stabilizer
Not to mention the fact that all additives you add to wine will change it's character - sometimes for the better, but more often for the worse. Part of the art of wine making is knowing when to add, and how much to add.
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
|
Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,766
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Re: Wine help wanted [Re: trendal]
#15235590 - 10/16/11 09:48 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek said:
from the label
potassium sorbate inhibits fermentation. Do not add untill all fermentation is finished and the wine is clear and stable. use 1/2 g for each L. Dissolve in some hot water and stir into wine. 5 ml(1 teaspoon) = appoximately 2.8g. seal tightly when not in use. store in a cool dry place
so it seems its not effective for halting a fermentation, just for preventing new yeast growth.
otherwise you wouldnt need to wait til the wine is stable first.
it seems its only used if you plan on back sweetening your wine.
i think a different product is required to halt and stablise an unfinished fermentation if that is desired.
for example, they add alcohol to unfinished wine, killing the yeast to make port.
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