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 Stonehenge
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 Gold just broke $1800 
#14941942 - 08/18/11 01:28 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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It's $1820.59 at this moment, can $2000 be far behind? People are turning more and more to gold since the usd is being increasingly seen as shaky. I keep hearing people say they will get in when the price drops. Some were saying that when it was at 800, some said when it hit 1000 it was in a bubble and would soon fall. When it was at 1500 recently people were saying bubble bubble bubble. I think it will go up some more, what do you think?
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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 meams
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14942135 - 08/18/11 02:10 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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bubble bubble bubble. i'll keep sayin it. can't wait for the pop so I can post a graph and say: LOOK, BUBBLE. Not saying its a bubble for no reason --- just a bubble nonetheless. Fear & speculation are driving the price up, not any inherent characteristics in the asset. Isn't that what bubbles are? DotCom anyone?
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geokills
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 Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: meams]
#14942299 - 08/18/11 02:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
meams said:
bubble bubble bubble. i'll keep sayin it. can't wait for the pop so I can post a graph and say: LOOK, BUBBLE.
As an investor, being involved with bubbles is one of the best things you can do. They are the fastest and most consistent money makers out there... until they aren't. The point is, gold is a bubble that you want to be involved with. Just make sure you keep an eye on it and implement appropriate risk management if and when the tide begins to turn. Until then, let it rip! The fundamental backdrop for gold as a safe haven against world currencies and general global turmoil is intact. I would be surprised to see the longer term trend reverse anytime soon, though I would not be surprised to see the price retrace back to $1600 without there being anything wrong with the longer term picture for the yellow metal.
Note: This is not the best time to be buying gold, but if you don't own ANY yet, this is an appropriate time to start building a position. Just don't buy all at once.
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meskalin
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14942503 - 08/18/11 03:12 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Isn't it stupid to actually buy gold right now because the price is riduculously high.. wouldn't that make you a fool.
Congrats on all the people who has large amounts of Gold. They're the winners, I see no reason to start buying Gold right now.
Eventually just like meams has mentioned its just buble.. imagine a pot boiling.. its gonna flood and all is going to be lost in my personal opinion.
Who agrees with me.
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: meams]
#14942557 - 08/18/11 03:24 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
meams said:
bubble bubble bubble. i'll keep sayin it. can't wait for the pop so I can post a graph and say: LOOK, BUBBLE. Not saying its a bubble for no reason --- just a bubble nonetheless. Fear & speculation are driving the price up, not any inherent characteristics in the asset. Isn't that what bubbles are? DotCom anyone?
wrong wrong wrong. i'll keep sayin it. don't hold your breath waiting for the pop.
all you naysayers were calling bubble at $1100 as well.
anyone calling gold a bubble doesn't understand gold one bit, or how it functions in the global monetary system.
gold is the inverse to central bankers' fiat, which is being inflated willy nilly.
instead of pricing gold in terms of fiatscos, price fiatscos in terms of gold.
the only bubble is the US$ and UST.
fear and speculation? nope, only the knowledge that gold serves as the only safe storage of capital away from crumbling paper assets and debt-based ponzi schemes.
the inherent characteristic supporting gold's rise is the inability of anyone to print more of it out of thin air.
i'll take a nice quote from zorbman in that previously linked thread:
Quote:
zorbman said:
Paradigm shifts are notoriously hard for most people to grasp while they're going through them.
They'll catch on eventually. 
meams, if you want to start making some mula with the extra cash you'll soon have in the next couple months, i'll tell you this now, it won't be by following ideas you learned in school.
Edited by Yrat (08/18/11 03:54 PM)
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geokills
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 Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: meskalin]
#14942673 - 08/18/11 03:48 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Isn't it stupid to actually buy gold right now because the price is riduculously high.. wouldn't that make you a fool.
You are anticipating some pull back in gold, so it sounds like you don't think you should buy any right here, as a feature of risk management. However, you don't seem to be considering the other side of risk, the risk of missing further upside.
You can find a balance between these two risk factors by buying just a little bit (i.e. using position size as a risk management strategy), so that you will have more firepower to add to your position if and when the price comes back in. This way, you are able to participate in further upside, while expecting to get a better price to add to your position with a larger buy order at a lower level. The fact of the matter is, you could've said gold was extended at any point during the past couple of years. I in fact made a very similar argument on a short term basis when the GLD (an exchange traded fund that mimics the spot price of gold) hit the mid $150's just about a month ago. I had closed my trading position in GLD hoping to buy it back lower, and was vindicated for three days. But I had been hoping for more downside and didn't get back in, only to watch the price take off, now some 15% higher than where I sold that trading position.
The point is, it's not foolish to buy a little bit of something that you believe has a fundamental basis for moving higher over the longer term, even if it appears expensive at the current price. What is foolish is to embrace the arrogance that you KNOW gold HAS to pull back, and therefore you'll be CERTAIN to get a better price later on. There is no sure thing when it comes to allocating your money, thus if you're going to diligently invest your money, you must always work to balance your risk of losing money versus the risk of missing out on a gain.
To reiterate, I am of the camp that gold probably will give you a better entry within the coming weeks, but if you don't own ANY gold, and you're just sitting around in cash looking for an allocation, you'd be a fool NOT to consider buying SOME gold right here, with the intention to add to your position on weakness. I would suggest buying 15 - 20% of your total intended allocation at this level, and using any weakness to add to your position in scales.
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meskalin
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14942713 - 08/18/11 03:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I agree with you on people who have no investment might want to just buy some gold thats fine.
But if you want to invest do it slowly and don't lump buy Gold.
Luckily I bought a good amount of Gold like 10 years ago. Which was piss cheap.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14942735 - 08/18/11 04:03 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Yrat, you are correct. I've been hearing this bubble mantra since even before it hit 800. People were saying when it drops back to 500 they will get in. Then it hit 1000 and people chanted bubble. 1100, 1200, on and on and then people said if it drops back to 1000 they will get in. I've been saying all along that gold has a great long term outlook. When it hit 1500 people were screaming bubble, i said it was cheap. When it hit 1700 i said that was cheap. 1825 last i looked. The people waiting for the bubble to burst will miss the train.
One reason for it's near term and somewhat long term rising are because all currencies are fiat money and have nothing but the good faith and credit of the country which issues them behind the currencies. You can't take your dollars, pounds, euros, etc and exchange them for a fixed amount of gold. You get the amount that the market says your currency is worth. Another way of looking at it is gold price is really a reflection of the value of world fiat money.
Another reason is because the stock market is unstable and the underlying world economy is not doing well. People are looking for a safe haven and while there are others besides gold, gold is so nice and portable. Try putting $100k into silver and you have a major storage and transportation problem. $100k in gold would fit in your pockets. A million dollars worth would fit in a suitcase. It would be a little heavy but we are talking about a million bucks.
People talk about china doing so well. They are prosperous overall but most of it is in the hands of a few well connected people. They do not have open capitalism there. China is a communist country. They have adopted many western ideas but not all. The average chinese worker makes barely enough to survive. They put suicide nets around the windows of tall factory buildings. It makes for bad press when the suicide rate keeps going up.
My personal prediction on gold is that it will keep going up for the next several years and then plateau. I can't see it doing anything else but go up in near term. Yes, it could retrench, maybe as far back as 1600 if conditions were perfect for that to happen. But that is not likely, more likely is that it will go up and down and up. 2 ups and a down = up. I should really have kept buying when it got past 600 but i thought i had more than enough in gold and wanted to get into real estate which was in a depressed state in my area. I picked up a few properties but may have been better off putting it into gold.
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SheikCorp
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14942871 - 08/18/11 04:32 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I should have gotten in right after 9/11. Kept waiting for things to chill kept watching it creeping up, never made a commitment to buy. Should have then, when it was 3 or 4 an oz. 
Thinking its time to start. I don't see any immediate resolutions to the worlds problems coming about.
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14943990 - 08/18/11 08:45 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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The historical price of a barrel of oil has been about 1/15 the price of an ounce of gold. So the question I ask: Is gold overvalued or is oil undervalued? The ratio between the gold and oil is just over 22. Oil would have to be $121/bl at present gold prices. Or gold would have to be at $1,230/ounce at present oil prices to be in line with the historical average. Somehow oil seems priced just about right.
(It's a bubble, or barrels of oil are on sale for 30% off)
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Yrat
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brent is at $106. nobody cares what the WTI is. the world doesn't use it. 60% of US oil consumption is imported and it's not imported at WTI prices. it comes in at brent prices.
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 bryguy27007
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14945529 - 08/19/11 03:45 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I bought a 10th of an ounce when it was 1500. Wish I would have bought more.
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Yrat
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we might break 1900 soon
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to one who is striking at the root."
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14946502 - 08/19/11 11:29 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Gold has been very good to me thus far. I made over 100% in gains on my physical holdings, but my portfolio is starting to get too metal heavy. Last time I checked, it was 17%. It's probably higher now. My initial policy allocation, which I created about a year ago, was to hold 10% in PMs, so it's way out of alignment now. As a result, I haven't purchased any new PMs this past year and have been putting all my money into everything else, but that still didn't keep the ratio in check. My annular rebalancing time is coming up at the end of this month, so I think I'm going to try my hardest to stay disciplined and sell off a chunk of my gold and silver to bring things back into alignment.
After all, the point is to buy low, sell high, right? With everybody around me chanting not to sell cuz it can only go higher, I fear this run may be coming to an end.
On another note, I would also recommmend people that don't own any PMs at all to buy some. Don't load the boat, but I think it's pretty standard to keep some in your portfolio as a hedge against rough economic times.
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SheikCorp
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100,000 investment of gold in 2003 would have netted 450,000 now. 350,000 profit on 250 ounces. Fictionally speaking but damn that looks nice.
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: SheikCorp]
#14947112 - 08/19/11 01:52 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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I would have had to have a $700,000 or larger portfolio to put that much into gold.
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Stonehenge
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Bob, if you sell off your winners and keep the so so investments, you will end up on the short end. They say let your winners run as far as they can go.
Everyone has an opinion on which way gold will go. All i'm saying is there is a finite amount of it and if even another 1% of the world's wealth was transferred into gold, the price would shoot up to unheard of heights. The stock market has been choppy as hell, the economy is not good, there are only so many places to put your excess cash. If it hits 5000 i'll probably start selling some off little by little. The reason being that they count gold at the same tax rate as personal income. You can't get long term capital gains treatment even if you keep it 20 years. But small sales and purchases will not gather a lot of attention. You could say dear aunt ethyl left it to you just before she died. Or your good friend fred, whatever.
Most people could care less about taxes on gold profits. Lets make the loot first and then work on that part.
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#14947350 - 08/19/11 02:32 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bob, if you sell off your winners and keep the so so investments, you will end up on the short end. They say let your winners run as far as they can go.
I disagree, and I'll tell you why. By dumping money into my "losers" (actually, I'd rather refer to them as undervalued investments), I'm, in essence, getting them at a better price than I normally would. Because of that, I'm getting more shares of the down investments than I normally would. When those down investments come back up, I'm going to be riding the wave up with many more shares than I would have had had I not put money into it when it was down. By selling some (not all) of my winners, I'm cashing in on their gains and using that money to buy the investments that are currently on sale.
All asset classes go through cycles. I bet everybody was raving about gold back in 1979, too. That's the part I'm worried about. I don't want to lose all those great gains I made by holding until gold goes bear. Especially if it goes bear in a catastrophic manner.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
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which is itself based upon the mathematical
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Groovy Grant
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Well said Bob.
Also, Yrat, even going off Brent Crude it's a multiple of 17, a 12% difference.
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pothead_bob
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Thanks, my investing timescale is measured in years, even decades. My goals are to generate a reasonable rate of return in line with the overall markets and to keep my risk low through diversification of investments. So that approach works for me.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
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Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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meams
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14947615 - 08/19/11 03:36 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
meams, if you want to start making some mula with the extra cash you'll soon have in the next couple months, i'll tell you this now, it won't be by following ideas you learned in school.
Funny, since the only way I was able to get a job that would supply me with extra cash was to absorb & convey all those 'silly' ideas I learned in school.
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Stonehenge
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Bob, i wish you all the luck in the world but there are few if any long term winners in the market who dump their profitable stocks and double up on losers. I'm not saying it can't work in certain situations but i don't know anyone who advocates that as an overall strategy.
If you think a certain investment is under valued and you have solid reasons to think that, then it might be good to put some more in. But look at it this way, you thought it was undervalued when you first bought it but it didn't do as well as you hoped. Has anything changed in the meantime to make you think it's a much better investment than it turned out to be? The price going down does not equal greater value. Look at gm, it was one of the major blue chips for decades and then it started going down. Time to double up right? Nope, it went all the way to zero.
Who here uses the policy of staying with winners and dumping losers most of the time? How have you done overall? Those with the opposite philosophy, how are you doing now? Of course people do not want to talk about their losers so they will talk about the one time or two times it worked. OK then, what major investor doubles up on his losers and cuts back on his winners? Buffet? No, who then?
It may work in this case but explain to us why you think certain investments are worth putting more into? You might convince some people to jump in and your stocks will go up as a result.
I just figure the overall fundamentals are bad for the market as a whole. Bears will be the only ones who will win in the next year or so unless they have good info. Gold on the other hand is sitting where there is almost no way it can lose. People are flocking to treasuries which pay no interest. A certain percentage of that money is going to wind up in gold. I say it'll hit 5,000 or come really close.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14948029 - 08/19/11 05:15 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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I think the problem is termonology. What do you mean when an investment is a winner and when it is a loser? If you mean that a winner is an investment that made you a lot of money --- which is what it sounds like because you're referring to gold as a winner --- and a loser as one that has lost you money, then what I take as your suggestions is that one should buy when an investment price is going high and sell when it is going low. That can work, but you just have to hope your timing was spot on so that there is enough upside potential after you buy and that you get out before it drops too far. In that case, I hope you're good at calling a peak or a trough. I believe you're talking about swing-trading. I'm not a trader, though, I'm an investor. Maybe I'll speculate in the future, but right now I'm going long-term.
Let's be clear, though, that just because an investment makes you or loses you money for a given period doesn't necessarily mean it's a good or bad investment over a different period. There can be other factors influencing what the market will currently pay for it at the time you're owning it.
It's very possible that the price of an investment can change without much at all happening to the underlying value of that investment. One should look no further than the DJIA over the past 4 years to see that. Was the underlying value of those companies really slashed in half in 2008 or were investors just losing their heads?
You mention GM, but GM is a different story because it was a stock issued by a company with major problems. I don't advocate investing in companies with a bad balance sheet and a plethora of debt. I don't think anybody but daytraders would consider that. Actually, my approach is largely index fund based investing because it is the easiest way to increase diversification, which is what I was after.
I'm not sure what you mean here:
Quote:
But look at it this way, you thought it was undervalued when you first bought it but it didn't do as well as you hoped. Has anything changed in the meantime to make you think it's a much better investment than it turned out to be?
I've made several investments that I thought were undervalued when I bought them that gave back phenomenal returns.
Let me give you an example. In 2008, VEIPX, a large-cap mutual fund went from a price of $22 to $11 in 6 months. However, in that same time, VSGBX, a short-term treasuries mutual fund went from $10.66 to $10.87. As expected, bonds zigged while stocks zagged. So what I would have done, had I been doing this back then and assuming I had the balls for it, I would have only put money into VEIPX back over that entire year while VEIPX was low. I would also probably have re-balanced sooner than a year due to the unusual environment back then by selling some of the "winner", VSGBX, to buy the "loser", VEIPX, and bring my portfolio ratios back to the policy allocation.
Now follow the chart to today. VSGBX hardly gained anything aside from the dividends you would have made in that time. But VEIPX has climbed from $11 all the way up to $19. The smart investor is the guy who sold some of the "winner" to buy the "loser" because he made that climb with many more shares due to his disciplined approach and balls of steel. Many more shares than the guy who sold the "loser" when he saw the drop. That guy made the climb with even less shares than he would have if he just swore off investing and left his portfolio alone.
Sorry for the long-winded response, but I hope that sums up what I'm advocating.
EDIT:
Missed this part:
Quote:
Gold on the other hand is sitting where there is almost no way it can lose. People are flocking to treasuries which pay no interest. A certain percentage of that money is going to wind up in gold. I say it'll hit 5,000 or come really close.
Those bolded parts are the kind of things that scare me. Once everybody talking about how there's no way an investment can lose, who's going to be left out there to buy it and drive the price up more?
Meh, if it goes to $5,000, I'll be a happy camper even if I do have to sell some right now and miss on those potential profits because I'll still be holding some and selling a little bit at a time all the way up.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
Edited by pothead_bob (08/19/11 05:22 PM)
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meams
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Meh, if it goes to $5,000, I'll be a happy camper even if I do have to sell some right now and miss on those potential profits because I'll still be holding some and selling a little bit at a time all the way up.
Potential profits should be viewed with a rosy sheen, but realized profits put a heft in your pocket.
You're a smart man bob -- keep it up.
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imachavel
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14948230 - 08/19/11 06:05 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
It's $1820.59 at this moment, can $2000 be far behind? People are turning more and more to gold since the usd is being increasingly seen as shaky. I keep hearing people say they will get in when the price drops. Some were saying that when it was at 800, some said when it hit 1000 it was in a bubble and would soon fall. When it was at 1500 recently people were saying bubble bubble bubble. I think it will go up some more, what do you think?
hey, 8 months ago, weren't you saying it would be very unlikely it would even break $1800? Now it's broken it, and how. I told a lot of people it would be wise to invest in it two years ago, and a lot of people said "oh well cmon etc. etc. etc." maybe it wasn't you though. however, you recommended to me salesforce.com (crm) and rackspace (rax)
how are those companies doing?? still climbing? is safeway and winn dixie still just bobbling up and down barely?
my predictions seem to come true usually. like people who say not to buy safeway stock, because it doesn't go down much, or doesn't go up much. but that is truly amazing, because a lot of people choose a stock because of stability, which is hilarious because then it drops when it's not stable, and they are disappointed. but then they go and choose a stock that is just as bad, wanting an increase. Anyway, I appreciate it anyway though wiccan seeker. you sure do keep track of this. thanks a lot
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imachavel
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
--- which is what it sounds like because you're referring to gold as a winner --- and a loser as one that has lost you money, then what I take as your suggestions is that one should buy when an investment price is going high and sell when it is going low.
I'm no buying and selling stock expert, but don't you mean buy when it's going low, and sell when it's going high? how do you make money by buying the high price product then selling it off at walmart prices. and not walmart the STOCK prices, I mean like 10 items or less prices??
you guys man  you get crazier every day 
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Stonehenge
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Imach wrote:
>hey, 8 months ago, weren't you saying it would be very unlikely it would even break $1800? Now it's broken it, and how. I told a lot of people it would be wise to invest in it two years ago, and a lot of people said "oh well cmon etc. etc. etc." maybe it wasn't you though. however, you recommended to me salesforce.com (crm) and rackspace (rax)
You have me confused with someone else. I never heard of those stocks and i've been a gold bug since about '03
Bob wrote
>What do you mean when an investment is a winner and when it is a loser? If you mean that a winner is an investment that made you a lot of money --- which is what it sounds like because you're referring to gold as a winner --- and a loser as one that has lost you money
When it has performed as hoped, gone up, that is a winner and the opposite is a loser.
>then what I take as your suggestions is that one should buy when an investment price is going high and sell when it is going low
No, i'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that when an investment goes down, you need to take a second look at it and try to figure why it dropped. Maybe you were wrong in the first place? If you can see a reason why it went down, is there a likely reason it will go up? Was it a temporary setback due to a labor strike that was resolved? A materials shortage that is no longer? If you aren't sure why it went down, why do you think it will go up?
If an investment goes up, take the same look at it. What are the market forces that brought it about? Are they likely to continue? Simply selling a winner to cash in a profit may be short sighted.
Lets look at gold. Why are people buying it, because it's pretty? Because they got a hot tip? Or because it's been a historically safe place in turbulent times. These are certainly turbulent times. Selling a winner for no reason other than it went up means either you figure you were wrong in the first place and got lucky or that things have changed so that it's outlook is not as good.
The reasons i've given for being bullish on gold are these
1. it is in limited supply, demand has no theoretical limit
2. it has always done well in turbulent times, such as these
3. despite the downgrade of usa debt, people are flocking to treasuries because of the perceived safety.
4. people are flocking to gold for the same reasons but unlike treasuries, gold can go up and is going up.
5. fiat money is losing value and any investment based on it will go down.
That's not to say there aren't better investments or other things to consider.
>I'm not sure what you mean here:
Quote:
But look at it this way, you thought it was undervalued when you first bought it but it didn't do as well as you hoped. Has anything changed in the meantime to make you think it's a much better investment than it turned out to be?
I mean what i say. Take another look at it and if you can't figure out why it dropped, why do you figure it will go up? Not everything that goes down comes back up.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Yrat
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Quote:
Groovy Grant said:
Well said Bob.
Also, Yrat, even going off Brent Crude it's a multiple of 17, a 12% difference.
my point is that 17 isn't that far off the 1/15th you were claiming as a historical avg
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14948406 - 08/19/11 06:46 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
When it has performed as hoped, gone up, that is a winner and the opposite is a loser.
Yes, so long as you know what your timeframe is that you expect it to go up. In my example, VEIPX may have looked to be a loser in 2008, but looking at a much longer timeframe, that could be the best thing for a young investor because it allows them to accumulate more shares in the beginning of their investing career. That's the perspective that I'm coming from.
Quote:
No, i'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that when an investment goes down, you need to take a second look at it and try to figure why it dropped. Maybe you were wrong in the first place? If you can see a reason why it went down, is there a likely reason it will go up? Was it a temporary setback due to a labor strike that was resolved? A materials shortage that is no longer? If you aren't sure why it went down, why do you think it will go up?
If an investment goes up, take the same look at it. What are the market forces that brought it about? Are they likely to continue? Simply selling a winner to cash in a profit may be short sighted.
Yes, this should all be obvious. First of all, unless you are a straight-up day-trader, you should only be investing in companies with an inherent value that are financially sound and offer a marketable service or product. Then if something goes awry, re-evaluate if it's time to get out or stay in. If the price went down and you suspect it is undervalued, then that's the time to start putting more in and take advantage of the sale price.
Quote:
Selling a winner for no reason other than it went up means either you figure you were wrong in the first place and got lucky or that things have changed so that it's outlook is not as good.
No, it's not like that at all. There's nothing wrong with locking in profits on the way up. Rather, I feel that's the smart thing to do because what are the odds you're going to time the market perfectly so that you sell at the top? Even the professionals that do this for a living, managing millions of dollars in investment funds have trouble timing the market like that.
I understand your reasons for being bullish, but where does the wave end? When do the turbulent times stop and send gold plummeting? Nobody knows for certain, which is why I sell on the way up.
I think we're splitting hairs here. The fact is that no matter how good an investment approach is, it will not work for everybody. There are different types of investors (e.g. day-traders, swing-traders, value investors, etc.) that will each require a different approach. I tend to be closer to the value investing approach and, furthermore, I don't care to spend tons of my free time researching stocks and reading company SEC filings to evaluate my next move.
I'm believe the overall market will come back at some point. So I'm not worried about throwing money into a large-cap index fund or small-cap index fund as it goes down and while it's low. The same goes for international stocks and real estate investment trusts. However, I can tell you that, at this point in time, I'm not putting a dime into treasuries or PMs because I already got too much of that stuff the way it is. Either they're overvalued or stocks are undervalued. Either way, by being exposed too much to any one asset class, my risk is going up without a commensurate increase in my potential for reward.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: meams]
#14948446 - 08/19/11 06:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Potential profits should be viewed with a rosy sheen, but realized profits put a heft in your pocket.
It sounds so obvious. But when I started, I could only manage to lock in losses on the down turn as opposed to the gains on the up swing. I remember that when I used to see a stock going up, making me 7 or 10%, I started thinking, well what if it goes to 15% or 25%? I would never sell and, inevitably, I'd end up selling at a loss of 7%. The greed will get you.
Speaking of selling, though, it's going to be a pain in the ass if I have to. I got gold coins in ounce increments, so when I sell, I'm going to be selling big chunks at once unless I buy back a smaller increment at the same time, but then I have to incur the spot price markup and the shipping costs for each transaction. And it's expensive to insure an $1800 gold coin.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Stonehenge
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I have a local coin and gold vendor i've been doing business with. Their markup last i checked (~1000) was $80 and they offered a premium to sellers of $25. So i can sell not only at no commission but pocket cash on the deal. When i bought the vig was $8 but then it went to $10 Now $80
Bob, you seem to say stay in for the long term but then you turn around and say sell when you can grab a profit because it's hard to time the market highs. In long term investing you don't try to time it, you stay with it until the fundamentals change.
What is the likelihood that the economic situation world wide will stop being turbulent or get better? I see no rosy prospects on the horizon which tells me gold will keep going up. You have given no reason to sell except a desire to pocket your profits. That's fine, you are always free to do that. Lets revisit it in a year and see what has happened.
As a matter of fact, early this year i was saying gold might hit 2000 by the end of the year. At that time it seemed a fantasy but now it looks like a conservative estimate. I'm debating buying some more but no thoughts of selling. Do not sell the goose that lays those golden profits.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Anonymous
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14948743 - 08/19/11 07:58 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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You guys are having fun with this upswing. I pray you have the mind to sell before the plateau ends
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meams
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Anonymous]
#14948747 - 08/19/11 07:59 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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^ thataws me. dunno why it was anon? i thought only P&MWB had anon option?
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: meams]
#14949001 - 08/19/11 08:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Meams, i could have sold at 1000 with over a 100% profit but i figured let your winners run. When it hit 1500 that was over 200% profit and most said get out before it falls like a cake when you slam the oven door. People were going to get in but not until it fell back some. Now its pushing 1900 and what are people saying? The very same things. Me, i'll just let it run a while longer. When it hits 2500 they will be saying "i'll get in soon as it goes back to 2000" I'll be saying "yee hah! what a wild ride!"
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14949718 - 08/19/11 11:35 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I have a local coin and gold vendor i've been doing business with. Their markup last i checked (~1000) was $80 and they offered a premium to sellers of $25. So i can sell not only at no commission but pocket cash on the deal. When i bought the vig was $8 but then it went to $10 Now $80
Yeah, I should check out if there are any local coin dealers in my area. When I bought way back in I think 2008, I bought from an online bullion broker. I don't think there were any fees for buying and I don't remember if I had to pay extra for shipping, but I bought Kruggerands, which had a very small markup over spot. To sell on there, though, I have to take care of shipping and pay a 1% commission.
Quote:
Bob, you seem to say stay in for the long term but then you turn around and say sell when you can grab a profit because it's hard to time the market highs. In long term investing you don't try to time it, you stay with it until the fundamentals change.
Yes, but I'm not selling all of my PMs. Just enough to bring its portion of my portfolio back to a reasonable value. I am in investing for the long haul, but that doesn't mean I just park my money into the investments and never touch it. I make adjustments to keep the asset classes at fixed values. You can invest in mutual funds that do this for you automatically - for example, they'll keep the fund allocation at 20% bonds and 80% stocks. If one asset goes up in value, they'll sell some of that and buy the other asset class to keep the ratio right. You're managing risk by doing this and, in turn, selling high and buying low.
To let one asset class's value run wild in a portfolio can introduce risk because you have too many eggs in one basket. PMs may have more growth potential, and I'll still be in them, just not as much, but I think other asset classes have growth potential too. I believe the DJIA will be a good deal higher than 10,500 in the next 10 years. Plus, stocks have one big plus over PMs... they pay dividends. So I don't think it unwise to use some of my PM gains to add to my positions in stocks.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Tien
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We're in a midst of a metal bubble.
I laugh at the folks who are buying into metals NOW.
07-08 was a good time to invest into gold...not now.
I think this bubble will inflate a bit more and bring up the price of silver...if anything silver is a safer investment right now.
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geokills
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 Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Tien] 1
#14951755 - 08/20/11 11:40 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tien said:
I laugh at the folks who are buying into metals NOW
[...]
I think this bubble will inflate a bit more and bring up the price
So why would you be laughing?
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menelaus
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14955628 - 08/21/11 09:12 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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If you google gold or taking out a loan for gold or second mortgage for gold you will find many threads like this in 2004, 2006, 2009. Everybody said gold was topping then. Gold/silver will keep going up as long as people continue to lose confidence in paper currency. IMO the switch has been flipped, the lights are on, and people will never look at paper currencies the same way at least for a hundred years.
If you want to make money in metals... trade futures or stocks, if you want to preserve your savings buy gold/silver only after you have purchased a long term supply of food and water. It's a simple insurance policy against the absurdity of this world.
Where is gold going? Well a technical analyst might say gold is getting overbought up here. It's broken out of it's channel and it's due for a correction. Since the fundamentals don't care about technicals anything could happen. The CME is going to raise margins soon so we will see how price reacts to that. I have no idea where it's going but I sure do get conflicting feelings when it goes up.
Quote:
geokills said:
As an investor, being involved with bubbles is one of the best things you can do. They are the fastest and most consistent money makers out there... until they aren't. The point is, gold is a bubble that you want to be involved with. Just make sure you keep an eye on it and implement appropriate risk management if and when the tide begins to turn. Until then, let it rip! The fundamental backdrop for gold as a safe haven against world currencies and general global turmoil is intact. I would be surprised to see the longer term trend reverse anytime soon, though I would not be surprised to see the price retrace back to $1600 without there being anything wrong with the longer term picture for the yellow metal.
Note: This is not the best time to be buying gold, but if you don't own ANY yet, this is an appropriate time to start building a position. Just don't buy all at once.
This is excellent advice for people who want to get their feet wet.
Edited by menelaus (08/21/11 09:23 AM)
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Tien
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14955864 - 08/21/11 11:13 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
geokills said:
Quote:
Tien said:
I laugh at the folks who are buying into metals NOW
[...]
I think this bubble will inflate a bit more and bring up the price
So why would you be laughing?
because it's gonna peak soon.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Tien]
#14956350 - 08/21/11 01:35 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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>because it's gonna peak soon
And the south will rise again. I've heard that exact statement so many times it isn't funny.
The gold dealers i started buying from thought it would go down from it's level then in the 400's. Today i could sell at a profit of over 300% but it makes no sense. I dont need the cash, i would be hit with a big tax bite, and no more profits when it goes up.
The gold genie has been let out of the bottle and will never go back in. Economic turmoil will last at least 5 more years so i look for price rises at least that long. I'm thinking it will top 2000 before year's end.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Tien
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14956452 - 08/21/11 02:01 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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That's one of the way you can look at it 
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geokills
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 Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#14956551 - 08/21/11 02:33 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
The gold genie has been let out of the bottle and will never go back in.
Absolutes have no place in responsible risk management.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14956603 - 08/21/11 02:44 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
The gold genie has been let out of the bottle and will never go back in.
Absolutes have no place in responsible risk management.
Well i'll just go out on a limb and say it will NEVER go back to where it was 10 years ago. Not even where it was 7 years ago.This genie is not going back into that tiny bottle ever. I didn't say it wouldn't retrench now and then when profit taking goes on.
I'll even make book in it. Anyone want to bet it will go back to 1500 this year? I'm saying it won't.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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geokills
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14956746 - 08/21/11 03:20 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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I'll save the bets for my portfolio and simply state that if we see multiple increases in margin requirements on
gold and equities begin to rally, I think gold could move back to $1600 no problem. $1500 would be a little
harder to hit, but I could still see it happening. How could you believe otherwise, given that we quite literally
just saw silver fall some 33% earlier this summer in a similar scenario?
I'll tell you this, if gold does take that kind of dive, I will be buying.
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SheikCorp
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14956818 - 08/21/11 03:37 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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me too
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: SheikCorp]
#14956999 - 08/21/11 04:24 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, me too. I would put 1500 within the realm of possibility but so unlikely that i would bet on it. The bottle i spoke of was the old prices gold traded at for 20 some odd years. The gold dealers i bought from when it was in the low to mid 400's were of the opinion it was likely to go back down. I'm sure people were saying "i'll get in when it goes back to 350" It was extremely unlikely then and just short of impossible today. But a nuke war could break out and who knows what might happen?
What was different from the period of the late 80's to the early 2000's compared to today? For one thing, the stock market performed like a champ back then. People thought a rise to 5000 dow was impossible, then 10,000 came and was passed. Large gold players were dumping their gold, i recall some sheiks and rulers of countries liquidating a fairly large amount like in the tons. The dollar was king and us stocks looked to be unbeatable. Also the world economy was doing well, not just usa.
Compare that to today. The us economy is faltering and we don't even have a roadmap to get out of the present recession. Politician are in gridlock when they aren't on vacation. How does that inspire confidence? Europe as has been said, is doing overall as badly or worse. The eu and with it the euro is looking very shaky. The third world looks to us to help them. The downgrade on credit rating was just making the obvious more plain.
Historically precious metals have done well in times of economic and political uncertainty. The dollar which is still considered to be the world's reserve currency, is slipping and qe1 and qe2 did nothing to make us look better. Many investors flock to treasuries since the market is so treacherous. But treasuries are paid back in fixed amounts of us dollars. That leaves gold as the default currency or investment if you don't trust the dollar or the market. The only reason it isn't shooting up even more is the fact it keeps breaking all time records and people want to grab their loot and run.
Japan is doing terribly and the news about that has been carefully kept on the down low. It's a total mess over there and it will affect the rest of the world. How does that help the world economy? Not a bit and japan was one of the world economic leaders before fukushima. People there will be talking about things that happened bf and af. USA has been hit with terrible storms, droughts some places and flooding in others. And we are stuck in 3 wars none of them with a likely good outcome. We still haven't cleaned up the subprime mess, it lingers on and on. They claim the recession was over a year or two back and this is the "recovery". If you believe that you might want to buy some waterfront property in japan. Cheap.
The only thing that could turn it around is if a new president came along with a workable plan. Even that would take years more to see much results. Nobody has much of a plan right now. So, i figure gold will keep rising for several years at least and won't level off until the economic picture looks better. If it drops to 1750 grab all you can afford.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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menelaus
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14958899 - 08/22/11 12:40 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
The gold dealers i bought from when it was in the low to mid 400's were of the opinion it was likely to go back down. I'm sure people were saying "i'll get in when it goes back to 350" It was extremely unlikely then and just short of impossible today.
The metals broker I bought from would say every time I called gold is due for a correction. He would tell me to wait for a pullback to 400, 600, 1000, 1200. None of them ever came. Of course this means nothing to support or condemn the value of gold. But everybody is always waiting for those deep "ideal" pullbacks where they are going to load up and become millionaires. Unfortunately those ideal pullbacks come in a time of intense fear and doubt in that market so then the general "wisdom" sees buying a pullback as stupid.
Here is this thread 2 years ago Gold Hits $1200
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14959705 - 08/22/11 07:54 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
geokills said:
I'll save the bets for my portfolio and simply state that if we see multiple increases in margin requirements on
gold and equities begin to rally, I think gold could move back to $1600 no problem. $1500 would be a little
harder to hit, but I could still see it happening. How could you believe otherwise, given that we quite literally
just saw silver fall some 33% earlier this summer in a similar scenario?
I'll tell you this, if gold does take that kind of dive, I will be buying.
under $1500 is also possible. gold recently broke out of a 3+ year channel, and could easily be knocked back into by some similarly ridiculous margin requirements.
however, we might also simply be entering a new paradigm of crumbling faith in paper currencies.
chavez wanting his gold back could start a run on the world's depositories if central banks realize the gold they "own" doesn't actually exist...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/chavez-pulls-venezuelas-gold-jp-morgan-great-scramble-physical-starting
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/things-make-you-go-hmmm-such-venezuelan-dictator-bringing-down-global-gold-cartel
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/gold-nears-1900-venezuela-formally-requests-gold-holdings-held-boe-ship-sea
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
Edited by Yrat (08/22/11 08:05 AM)
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14960404 - 08/22/11 12:38 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, i saw that bit about chavez. The old wisdom about channels and cycles is falling to the new reality. There just is no real safe haven except for gold. A few other things come close. I'd say silver is due for an upward movement.
The channel gold was in for so many years was from large gold holders selling their stock soon as they got a better price and then going back to waiting when it fell. That was when lots of other better looking investments were available. Why buy gold when it hasn't gone up in a generation? It looked dead. But the genie was let out of that bottle and other investments don't look so good. People with lots of cash or dollar denominated securities are getting nervous. I would not be surprised to see 5000 gold in a year or two.
It's up as we speak, it may pass 1900 today. All aboard, the train is leaving the station.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14961988 - 08/22/11 06:26 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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here's an interesting one i threw together:
the dates when gold first passed through prices at $100 increments ($300 - $1900)
is the currency crisis upon us?
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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meams
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14962233 - 08/22/11 07:19 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Growth in gold does not imply crisis in currency. If it does, I need it explained. Note: don't tell me why it might. Tell me why it does. Because otherwise i just see the makings of a bubble.
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: meams]
#14962419 - 08/22/11 07:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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because gold acts as an alternative to the paper currencies of the world, which are all pretty much fucked.
gold is reclaiming its market-determined safe haven for capital while faith in paper currencies continues to diminish. (side note: this is why governments always move to outlaw gold ownership, as it allows individuals an "out")
i think that you understand that... but maybe what you don't understand is how fucked the fiats of the world are. capital will continue to rush into gold for as long as the paper debt-ponzi problems of the world exist... and there is currently no cure in sight.
compound interest is unsustainable. we are at the turning point. the wall is approaching, and the leaders of the world are stepping on the gas.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14962862 - 08/22/11 09:20 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14965139 - 08/23/11 12:44 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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It broke 1900 this morning but profit takers are driving it back down. One step backward, two steps forward.
They say margin will be raised on gold but others say many of the buyers are cash buyers. Gold is becoming a currency. There are always drop backs and sideways movements. But the economic picture is not getting any brighter and gold just looks so much better than dollars. When will it hit 5000? 2k will likely be passed and left in the dust this year. People will say "i'll get it when it goes back to 2100"
Don't invest money you will need in the near future. This is a long term play but its charging like the proverbial bull at the moment. How much longer can it go straight up without a retreat? I'm not worried, i don't plan to sell in the next few years.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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creationdivine
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14971321 - 08/24/11 04:28 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14971329 - 08/24/11 04:30 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Gold dropped $90 today and a lesser amount yesterday after touching historic highs above 1900. That was just too much profit sitting on the table for a lot of investors who may have gotten in at 1500 or 1600 and wanted the loot before it got away. It's at about 1767 at the moment which is not a bad place to get in. There may be a little more pullback so if you are waiting for the perfect moment, it may come in the next couple weeks or so. I predicted stocks would generally go up after last weeks downturn. However, the upturn is only temporary so don't get sucked in long term. As stocks go up, people tend to get out of gold so i'm waiting for lower numbers like in the 1600's before making any more investment. If it dips to 1500 which is not likely, i'll get really serious.
Look for outbreaks of optimism in the next 3 weeks or so. Then will come the perfect time to go short on stocks and to jump on the gold train before it climbs the next hill. Whose who did not get out at the top, don't worry, your money is in a safe place. Long term will yield more than day to day gyrations.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14971799 - 08/24/11 06:27 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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no surprise with the margin hikes on both sides of the globe, in addition to options expiry
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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geokills
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14972399 - 08/24/11 08:18 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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While I support initial purchases at this level, and believe that the long term uptrend of gold will not be broken, I have a feeling that traders will get the opportunity to buy into the original (lower half) portion of the channel you have represented in your chart. I still support initial purchases at this level, because I don't know if we will get into that channel which began in 2009. But for people who have already been holding gold and want to further build their position, I would wait to add to your positions until we see gold move back below $1650 (and still leave some powder dry just in case the metal gets closer to $1500).
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14972530 - 08/24/11 08:37 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Geo, that's basically what i said so naturally i agree with you. I think many of us see similar patterns even if we use different methods. We all agree gold has a bright future or at least in the near term like 2 to 5 years. I'm not so sure it will pan out after that but much depends on what happens in the meantime. If in 5 years usa has it's house in order, the rest of the world seems to be making progress, then we may see a cooling off for gold. If the politicians are still playing games, refusing to face reality, if certain things are not brought into order, then gold could hit that figure of 5000 i gave and even surpass it. I do not think 10,000 is out of the question.
I'm like most people who bought some when it was cheap in that i'm glad it went up but wish i had gotten more while the getting was cheap. This may be as close as we are going to come to a discount sale. But don't rush in while its falling, let it fall a little more. But let me tell ya, if it goes into the 1500's, i'm gonna buy a bunch. OK, maybe just 10 oz at first so i can bitch about how timid i was later when it zooms.
It's just as they said, they were going to rein in margin on gold to stop "speculation" but hell, that's what the market is about mostly. But if speculators see that as a desperate last attempt to stop the gold stampede then it may not do much. I'm not sure i like people buying it to sell soon as they make 5%.
I may get serious on gold if it drops much. A few years from now we may be saying we'd be as well off setting fire to the cash as to leave it in the bank. There are billions of stim money that hasn't hit the street yet and qe may have more sequels than rocky. If money isn't working hard for you, who is it working for?
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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meams
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14973392 - 08/24/11 11:14 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
There are billions of stim money that hasn't hit the street yet and qe may have more sequels than rocky. If money isn't working hard for you, who is it working for?
I still think its hilarious that people out there think the QE money is going to be dumped on the real economy all at once.
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: meams]
#14976907 - 08/25/11 04:23 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-23/greenspan-says-the-euro-is-breaking-down-may-harm-stock-prices.html
Quote:
No Gold Bubble
Greenspan also said that he did not think gold, which reached a record above $1,900 an ounce this week, was in a bubble.
“Gold, unlike all other commodities, is a currency,” he said. “And the major thrust in the demand for gold is not for jewelry. It’s not for anything other than an escape from what is perceived to be a fiat money system, paper money, that seems to be deteriorating.”
what people fail to grasp is that greenspan was an acolyte of ayn rand.
my guess is that greenspan "engineered" the collapse of the fiat dollar and with it the rest of the funny money.
i think there has been a war going on behind the scenes to rid us of the private central banks.
greenspan is now letting slip little bits of info which point to where he is coming from.
very interesting.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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geokills
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#14976952 - 08/25/11 04:29 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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 Atlas Shrugged
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: geokills]
#14991355 - 08/28/11 03:07 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Gold shot up again friday to 1826. So those who bought at the low of around 1750 did well. I do believe we will see another low. If not then the last chance for a discount was passed up. I have a pretty good stock of physical gold but i was going to buy more etf gold. I still think gold is way underpriced at todays levels. I did say a while back that if it dropped to 1750 people should buy but i didn't buy more myself. Looking for that better price.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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menelaus
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14994362 - 08/29/11 01:47 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Gold shot up again friday to 1826. So those who bought at the low of around 1750 did well. I do believe we will see another low. If not then the last chance for a discount was passed up. I have a pretty good stock of physical gold but i was going to buy more etf gold. I still think gold is way underpriced at todays levels. I did say a while back that if it dropped to 1750 people should buy but i didn't buy more myself. Looking for that better price.
I agree. I expect some serious margin hikes around 2000 level that could send prices lower although more and more people are becoming active in the physical metal market so who knows we might not get a new low. Doesn't matter to me but I would certainly be happy to buy more if we make new lows. In the big picture of things though, buying at 1600 vs 1750 is really an insignificant deal if youre of the opinion that gold will see 5000 or higher. It's more about the "feeling" that you got a "good deal" in my opinion. For those with no savings in physical metals I would suggest they just put in 10-20% and forget about getting "the best price" and look at it as an insurance policy that preserves the value of your savings under any conditions.
Edited by menelaus (08/29/11 02:19 AM)
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SbstratAlchemist
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: menelaus]
#14994572 - 08/29/11 02:48 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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What would be the minimum reasonable investment for someone who wants to start a position in gold?
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bryguy27007
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Start where ever you feel comfortable.
I bought 1/10th of an ounce a while back, I have a position in gold. I'm not comfortable strengthening my position in gold because right now I see a bigger potential in silver.
Buy whatever you can afford, just at least get a little.
My two cents anyway, I'm still new to precious metals.
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geokills
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Quote:
SbstratAlchemist said:
What would be the minimum reasonable investment for someone who wants to start a position in gold?
There is no cut and dry "minimum reasonable investment" -- it is solely relevant to your own financial position. Firstly, you should only be buying gold if you have liquid savings (i.e. unused / uneeded cash). Provided that is the case, I would put no more than 20% of what you intend to put into gold, into gold at this level, then hope that we see prices fall back into the $1500 - $1600 / oz range to add another 20% tranche. I would not allocate my entire savings into any one asset class.
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pothead_bob
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Quote:
What would be the minimum reasonable investment for someone who wants to start a position in gold?
I personally would put 10% of my portfolio into precious metals, but not much, if any, more than 10%. They are to be used as a store of value and a hedge against economic turmoil, not to grow your money on a long-term basis. Speculation has driven precious metal prices for over a decade now and I feel that prices will either level off or drop in the next decade. If inflation takes off, that may drive prices higher still, but in that case, inflation will drive the price of everything up.
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SbstratAlchemist
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I'm certainly not thinking about putting my life savings into gold, I was just wondering if it would be worthwhile to buy for example $500 worth. Figured there'd be some fees attached and buying a small amount may not make sense.
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pothead_bob
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If that's in line with your investment goals, then sure. You can buy the ETF, GLD, if you don't want to bother holding physical and only pay a commission to your broker when you buy and sell. That would be around $7 per transaction.
If you want physical, you can buy a quarter ounce gold piece for less than $500. Krugerrands are always very close to spot price. Shipping would probably be like $10 to $15. Keep in mind, though, that you'll also have to pay shipping if you end up selling it online at a future date, plus a commission.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
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Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Stonehenge
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You can buy gold in 1/10 oz and multiples of that amount through etf's as has been said. I don't know that the old advice to have no more than 10% is valid. Years back i heard advice that said 5% and people were saying why put any money in it since it's a sterile investment. At the time it had not gone up in many years. Now people are saying 20%. At the amount i paid for it, my gold would be only around 10% but it has gone up a lot. I don't think that means i need to sell some.
Otoh, i don't think gold is that great for long term like 20 years and more. I see it more as a vehicle to get through turbulent times without losing. At some point it will plateau like it did from around 80 through 2000. I'm seeing in the paper advice from "experts" that a little inflation is not so bad and we should welcome some. Then why do they jigger up the numbers so that it always looks lower than it is? Do you believe the govt which says inflation has been next to nothing the last few years? I see my costs zooming up and i know they are playing a numbers game to fool us.
So we have crooked and greedy politicians with their hands on the printing press. What do you think is going to happen? I see no recourse from inflation.
I saw an article in the paper about someone named harry dent who is famous because he wrote a book that said in the 90's we would have a period of prosperity. Of course in around 2000 he said the dow would hit 40,000 by 2010. Missed that by a hair and no word about the stock crash. Now he says the market is going down, i agree with that part, and gold is going down, (why?) and cash is a good place to keep your money because it's "safe". He also says real estate is going down. He says the dow is not only going down but down to around 3000. His only reason given for all this is that "bubbles go back to pre bubble levels" never mind the 40,000 dow part. Forget that and focus on the latest nonsense.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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pothead_bob
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#14997759 - 08/29/11 06:46 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Otoh, i don't think gold is that great for long term like 20 years and more. I see it more as a vehicle to get through turbulent times without losing.
Yes, exactly. Great for turbulent times, but not a long-term investment vehicle.
Quote:
I saw an article in the paper about someone named harry dent who is famous because he wrote a book that said in the 90's we would have a period of prosperity. Of course in around 2000 he said the dow would hit 40,000 by 2010. Missed that by a hair and no word about the stock crash. Now he says the market is going down, i agree with that part, and gold is going down, (why?) and cash is a good place to keep your money because it's "safe". He also says real estate is going down. He says the dow is not only going down but down to around 3000. His only reason given for all this is that "bubbles go back to pre bubble levels" never mind the 40,000 dow part. Forget that and focus on the latest nonsense.
Yeah, I wouldn't listen to the guy if he was predicting DJIA of 40,000 in 2010. The growth of equities in the 80's and 90's was way above historical values and the market was due to slow down eventually. Just look at how the P/E ratio (the price investors are willing to pay for $1 of earnings) ballooned in the 90's. Speculation was driving prices up. Interestingly, though, if you look at the 4 decades, comprised of the 70's, 80's, 90's and 2000's, together, the overall return comes out to about 7% for the market, which is right in line with historical numbers.
I don't know what the market will do this decade, but I wouldn't put money on it going anywhere near 3,000.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#15506038 - 12/12/11 07:24 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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gold and silver might have potentially broken longer term support. there could be good opportunities to buy in soon. this makes sense in light of potential big players trying to liquidate and cover positions exposed to the increasingly hopeless situation in europe. sell the only thing that has been green for quite some time... gold and silver.
lower limits include drops to even $1500 for gold, and $23 for silver. i will be buying with both fists if it gets there.
weak hands to strong hands.
on the other hand, the gold:silver ratio is riding along support in a potential wedge formation, and has shown recent strong upwards bounces off said support. a similar bounce could take gold to $1900 if silver stays the same, or silver to $26 if gold stays the same. the correlation between this and the above TA is silver to the $25 area, but a combination of both, meeting halfway, could happen as well.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
Edited by Yrat (12/12/11 07:47 PM)
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#15515523 - 12/14/11 02:59 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Gold just dropped below 1600. I dont know if that means now is the time to strike or if it means all hell is going to break loose? Gold has been following the market and the market is in for a big fall. Think of humpty dumpty. Europe's problems are reaching the boiling point and sweeping it under the carpet no longer works.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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qman
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#15515770 - 12/14/11 04:10 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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There is a reason gold is trading lower, the traders on the Comex paper market are selling out of their paper contracts, why? After the MF Global meltdown, investors don't trust paper futures contracts anymore, and they are never coming back to the Comex exchange.
This is huge, once they are done selling out, guess where they will be going? To the physical gold market, so we very well may have a huge price difference between the paper price vs the physical price.
What MF Global did to investors holding gold and silver contracts a few weeks ago was nothing more than criminal, but what we see on a daily basis in the markets is criminal. The big boys are getting ready for the largest print fest in global history, they need to get gold down as low as possible before the print announcement, in a way you really can't blame them.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: qman]
#15516287 - 12/14/11 06:00 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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There already is a price spread between physical and etf. The print fest you speak of is the qe program? Actually, there is enough cash out there to create a lot of inflation but it has not all hit the street yet. I think they will start pumping out greenbacks but little by little. Debasing the currency is the last refuge of scoundrel politicians who can't get their hands on any more tax money to spend. It also conveniently erases the nat debt little by little. I expect massive inflation within 5 years. It could be sooner. I'm just not sure if this is the time to grab gold or wait a little for the other shoe to fall.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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qman
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#15517962 - 12/14/11 11:09 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
There already is a price spread between physical and etf. The print fest you speak of is the qe program? Actually, there is enough cash out there to create a lot of inflation but it has not all hit the street yet. I think they will start pumping out greenbacks but little by little. Debasing the currency is the last refuge of scoundrel politicians who can't get their hands on any more tax money to spend. It also conveniently erases the nat debt little by little. I expect massive inflation within 5 years. It could be sooner. I'm just not sure if this is the time to grab gold or wait a little for the other shoe to fall.
The debt will never be paid off, despite all the inflation we are experiencing, tax revenue is down. In many cases inflating out of the debt is the correct coarse of action, but that plan is not working and it is to late. We are now projecting to have a $2 trillion short fall next year, and add that to 15 trillion of debt, we will be over 17 trillion of debt, remember, we must pay interest on this debt!! If interest rates were allowed to trade freely, they would be soaring today, imagine a average interest rate of 5% on 17 trillion of debt, that is over $850 billion of interest payments per year, with tax revenue of only 2.5 trillion, interest on the debt of be 1/3 of all tax revenue!! The Italian bond market is already there today, watch the action in the coming week and months.
As far as "money hitting the streets", the money velocity will pick up once confidence is lost in the currency, and then the inflation will be rapid, hyper-inflation takes little time to grab the economy, quicker than most think. What will shake the confidence of the currency? It will be a massive global QE program by the Fed, they will provide trilions to support the Euro and then trillions to support the US budget, the Fed has no choice to do this, otherwise we enter a massive deflationary depression.
At the end of the day, the Fed will have no other choice other than to back the currecny with gold and pay off the debt with devalued dollars. I suggest you listen to legendary gold expert Jim Sinclair's recent audio interview, he explains it better than most.
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Shill
♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: qman]
#15519536 - 12/15/11 10:02 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Gold can reach nearly $3000 in mid-2013 if the Fed stays true to its word to keep rates low
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The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.
A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.
If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.
"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Shill]
#15520326 - 12/15/11 01:16 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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You both are correct in some points. Shill, gold will hit 3k but likely next year.
qman, you contradict yourself. First you said it was too late for inflation to pay off the debt, then you say hyper inflation can hit the economy in little time. That is what i was saying too. As for backing the currency with gold, it will never happen. What we will see is usa plus the rest of the world spiralling down the path taken by zimbabwe. All fiat currencies eventually lose all their value.
Gold headed back up and is currently down $12. I may take a position in it soon.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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qman
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#15520592 - 12/15/11 02:24 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Stone, I did contradict myself somewhat, what I meant to say was the debt can never be paid back with current dollars, but will be paid back with devalued gold backed dollars.
Gold will have to be used for dollar backing at some point, why will anyone choose to be holder of currency or ever buy debt if they know that is will turn worthless again? What current holders of dollars will experience will be the biggest nightmare of their lifes, losing 60-70% of purchasing power in a matter of 3-4 years. People will lose complete confidence in paper money, gold will come to the rescue once again. Even if the dollar has partial backing of 40%, it should be enough to regain confidence.
Holders of US debt are in the same situation, their debt is in us dollars, they will also will experience a default in a sense with dollar devaluation. A normal investor will not continue to be a holder of paper money after they experience a total loss of savings.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: qman]
#15521490 - 12/15/11 05:43 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Not only paper money but dollar denominated securities will lose their value. For example, cd's, treasuries, mortgages. The mortgages are good if you owe the money, not so good if you hold a mortgage.
There is not enough gold in the world to base a currency on. There is not enough silver either. Why do you think they got away from metal based money nearly 100 years ago? So they could steal our money. That and the lack of enough precious metals. One possible solution is to have money tied to an hour of work which would be minimum wage. A person could negotiate their salary but would be paid in this currency. A doctor would make more than you would. Another possibility is currency based on other property like real estate. Probably not since we had that big boom and bust. Any thing is better than worthless paper.
I think i will wait until gold hits 1500 and then jump in.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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qman
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#15525186 - 12/16/11 10:56 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Not only paper money but dollar denominated securities will lose their value. For example, cd's, treasuries, mortgages. The mortgages are good if you owe the money, not so good if you hold a mortgage.
There is not enough gold in the world to base a currency on. There is not enough silver either. Why do you think they got away from metal based money nearly 100 years ago? So they could steal our money. That and the lack of enough precious metals. One possible solution is to have money tied to an hour of work which would be minimum wage. A person could negotiate their salary but would be paid in this currency. A doctor would make more than you would. Another possibility is currency based on other property like real estate. Probably not since we had that big boom and bust. Any thing is better than worthless paper.
I think i will wait until gold hits 1500 and then jump in.
Stone, it's not a matter if there is enough gold and silver, it's at what price. Today we could back all the dollars around, but at 10,000oz gold.
We got off the gold standard on 1971, so its been only 40 years of fiat money. A gold standard does not mean that we go to the store and pay with gold coins, it just means my dollars are convented to gold at a fixed price.
Paper money is never going to be tied to real estate or a hour of work, just study your world history and you will see that for over 5000 years gold has been the ultimate store of value, and that is not going away anytime soon.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: qman]
#15525639 - 12/16/11 12:58 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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>Today we could back all the dollars around, but at 10,000oz gold
I think you mean $10k an oz not 10k ounces. Considering the total world supply of gold or all gold ever mined is estimated at 5.3 billion oz, that would not likely work. That equals only 53t which would be enough for usa but we do not own all the gold. More than 50% is in the form of jewelry and most is in other countries. The amount owned by us govt is estimated at 147 million oz but some say much of that has been stolen and since an audit of the govt and fed reserve has been blocked by every administration, we will never know. If we did have that much it would back only $1.47t. Considering the national debt is around 15t, this is not going to work. It may will rise to $10k an oz but not backing currency. And who could trust the govt to have enough gold?
>We got off the gold standard on 1971
Citizens were not allowed to convert dollars to gold after 1933. World governments were allowed to convert until they started doing so and nixon issued an executive order stopping the practice and then it was officially abandoned.
>Paper money is never going to be tied to real estate or a hour of work
I didnt say it would be but those schemes are indeed being floated and have been used in the past. Just not here.
>for over 5000 years gold has been the ultimate store of value, and that is not going away anytime soon.
You are correct and that is what i've been saying. Over 5k years actually. I would not be surprised if gold hit 10k. But a currency tied to gold at any fixed price is gonig to be attacked when gold value goes higher. If it goes lower the value of the currency goes down.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Yrat
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#15586081 - 12/29/11 09:31 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
gold and silver might have potentially broken longer term support. there could be good opportunities to buy in soon. this makes sense in light of potential big players trying to liquidate and cover positions exposed to the increasingly hopeless situation in europe. sell the only thing that has been green for quite some time... gold and silver.
lower limits include drops to even $1500 for gold, and $23 for silver. i will be buying with both fists if it gets there.
weak hands to strong hands.
on the other hand, the gold:silver ratio is riding along support in a potential wedge formation, and has shown recent strong upwards bounces off said support. a similar bounce could take gold to $1900 if silver stays the same, or silver to $26 if gold stays the same. the correlation between this and the above TA is silver to the $25 area, but a combination of both, meeting halfway, could happen as well.
looks to have come true.
we will see whether or not the prices will bounce off very long term support lines. this is becoming more and more unlikely in light of the continuing divergence in paper price vs spot price. metals investors are increasingly shying away from CRIMEX paper markets after seeing what happened to "owners" of bars during the MFG fiasco.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Stonehenge
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Yrat]
#15586975 - 12/29/11 02:25 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, the problem is that physical gold charges a hefty fee. ETF gold is cheaper but there is the nagging worry that there may not be enough gold to cover all the shares. Gold is down to 1548. I think i'll put in a buy order at 1501 or what would correspond to that. I figure if it goes below 1500 people will jump in and i'll get a bounce at least. I'll keep my physical but it would be nice to pick up some loot. I still think the market is going down like an anchor. But the least bit of good news and it always picks up.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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sporesmores420
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: Stonehenge]
#15671830 - 01/16/12 01:37 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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time to sell
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Wiccan_Seeker
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Sell when its low? Is that a new strategy I'm unaware of?
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DieCommie
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Sell when its low? Is that a new strategy I'm unaware of?
Nah, you are aware of it. Its the other side to the buy when its high strategy you have been preaching.
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Wiccan_Seeker
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Re: Gold just broke $1800 [Re: DieCommie]
#15682088 - 01/18/12 07:55 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I guess it depends on perspective. I stopped actively lobbying for buying gold around $1000.. its gone to over $1800, didnt it?
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