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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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 I'm enlightened  1
#14917604 - 08/13/11 10:32 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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It took 58 fucking years but better late than never.  I have to admit I was a little bit envious of those of you here who made it in your 20s, but now that I've made it too it's all cool. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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 roboto212
Stranger
Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 691
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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it doesnt have to take 58 years either... some of us are managing to do it in a few months.
Know Thy Self
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OM MANI PADME HUM! IM SO HAPPY 
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere 
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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cool! happy to hear things are good for you
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blewmeanie
Sativa Cyborg
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,512
Loc: Jacksonville FL 
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Icelander] 3
#14917642 - 08/13/11 10:41 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Did "the chronic" teach you the secret handshake yet.
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Valknut
Bathory Horde
Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 550
Loc: Felucca by brit gy
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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Not trying to be rude or anything, but what do you mean by made it?
I could only think of a few possibilities...
-Sexual intercourse
-A mystical/religious realization or experience
-You shroomed
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Journey to the end.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Did "the chronic" teach you the secret handshake yet.
No, I think he doesn't really want me in the group. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Valknut] 1
#14917663 - 08/13/11 10:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Valknut said:
Not trying to be rude or anything, but what do you mean by made it?
I could only think of a few possibilities...
-Sexual intercourse
-A mystical/religious realization or experience
-You shroomed
YES!
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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roboto212
Stranger
Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 691
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Valknut]
#14917666 - 08/13/11 10:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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there is the development enlightenment that some, or most, of us have to go through in order to realize the true Self, or empty cognizant awareeness.
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OM MANI PADME HUM! IM SO HAPPY
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Valknut
Bathory Horde
Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 550
Loc: Felucca by brit gy
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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Quote:
Icelander said:
YES!
Wait but which 1?
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Journey to the end.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14917675 - 08/13/11 10:49 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
cool! happy to hear things are good for you
I knew you'd be happy for me bro and I'll be just as happy for you when it's your turn. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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i'm very far away from it 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Valknut] 1
#14917681 - 08/13/11 10:49 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Valknut said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
YES!
Wait but which 1?
One? You got to be kidding. You're talking to the Ice Man here boy.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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So what happened...??
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said:
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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WScott
⍾ (´▽｀) ⍾
Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 3,379
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Now that you are, have you always been?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said:
So what happened...??
I awoked.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
roboto212 said:
it doesnt have to take 58 years either... some of us are managing to do it in a few months.
Know Thy Self
Damn! That's all I can say. Damn!
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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AndyRawrs
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 68
Last seen: 11 months, 2 days
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Please quantify how much of your experience on the shroomery affected your path to enlightenment.
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
AndyRawrs said:
Please quantify how much of your experience on the shroomery affected your path to enlightenment.
Well that's hard to say. I worked out many of my ideas here but they didn't originate here. None of the heavy work was done here. That all has to be done alone.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: WScott]
#14917782 - 08/13/11 11:14 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
WScott said:
Now that you are, have you always been?
Difficult question. But it's very helpful to know it. It's a lot more fun that way.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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what was the trigger for you? is there a neat story to go along with this?
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,212
Loc:
Last seen: 6 hours, 46 minutes
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Wow, this is really inspiring. Before I joined, I read some of your posts, icelander, and I always thought you were a really honest guy. I someone have related a lot of my pit falls with your own. I'm really happy for you
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ambracia
Stranger
Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 130
Last seen: 3 months, 25 days
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Yeah.. I totally know what your talking about...  you guys sure you dont need to compare enlightenments or anything ? 
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To have received from one, to whom we think ourselves equal, greater benefits than there is hope to requite, disposeth to counterfeit love, but really secret hatred, and puts a man into the estate of a desperate debtor that, in declining the sight of his creditor, tacitly wishes him there where he might never see him more. For benefits oblige; and obligation is thraldom; and unrequitable obligation, perpetual thraldom; which is to one's equal, hateful.
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WScott
⍾ (´▽｀) ⍾
Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 3,379
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery,
After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14917868 - 08/13/11 11:29 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
what was the trigger for you? is there a neat story to go along with this?
I don't know how neat it is. I've talked about it here in fits and starts for over a year. There was a lot of suffering and boring down time.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Wow, this is really inspiring. Before I joined, I read some of your posts, icelander, and I always thought you were a really honest guy. I someone have related a lot of my pit falls with your own. I'm really happy for you
I've tried my best to be honest here. I think the pitfalls I faced are more or less the pitfalls anyone would face on their way to awakening. I'm glad you were able to benefit from my posts here.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: WScott] 1
#14917885 - 08/13/11 11:31 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
WScott said:
Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery,
After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery.
true dat
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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roboto212
Stranger
Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 691
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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did you follow a meditation or style of inquiry that others have successfully used in the past, or was your enlightenment brought about by your own means?
could others duplicate your enlightenment? could others follow your "path" and "get" enlightened
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OM MANI PADME HUM! IM SO HAPPY
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I did do a standing Qi Gong meditation for the last few years that has been very challenging but extremely beneficial in calming my nervous system. This helped greatly in my confrontations with my anxieties which had to be faced.
I used a technique of inquiry similar to what Ken Keyes teaches in
The Handbook to Higher Consciousness.
The path to awakening is going to be different for everyone although there will be many similarities.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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blewmeanie
Sativa Cyborg
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,512
Loc: Jacksonville FL
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
WScott said:
Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery,
After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery.
true dat
Elightenment sounds lame. I'd rather get a BJ and look at the stars. Any idea which spiritual path leads to that sort of "realization"?
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desert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,060
Last seen: 1 month, 17 hours
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you're thinkin tantra bro.
definitely
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vi veri veniversum vivus vici
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ambracia
Stranger
Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 130
Last seen: 3 months, 25 days
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Elightenment sounds lame. I'd rather get a BJ and look at the stars. Any idea which spiritual path leads to that sort of "realization"?
Write a book broskivite
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To have received from one, to whom we think ourselves equal, greater benefits than there is hope to requite, disposeth to counterfeit love, but really secret hatred, and puts a man into the estate of a desperate debtor that, in declining the sight of his creditor, tacitly wishes him there where he might never see him more. For benefits oblige; and obligation is thraldom; and unrequitable obligation, perpetual thraldom; which is to one's equal, hateful.
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blewmeanie
Sativa Cyborg
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,512
Loc: Jacksonville FL
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: ambracia]
#14917947 - 08/13/11 11:51 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ambracia said:
Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Elightenment sounds lame. I'd rather get a BJ and look at the stars. Any idea which spiritual path leads to that sort of "realization"?
Write a book broskivite
Look at my posts. I can barely write an e-mail, much less a book.
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roboto212
Stranger
Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 691
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: ambracia]
#14917982 - 08/13/11 11:58 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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was your enlightenment immediate, or did it have noticeable stages, or some level of progression?
even after your enlightenment, do you feel like you are done, or is there still a feeling of incompleteness?
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OM MANI PADME HUM! IM SO HAPPY
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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According to what definition are you enlightened? Just wondering what you define it as, and how much stock you put in the term itself.
Glad you're happy and stuff of course, but how do you know its not just getting out of the pitfalls, or the end of a depression or something, or the start of another "peak experience".
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In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,034
Loc: NY
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut] 1
#14918436 - 08/14/11 01:58 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Does enlightenment still entail death anxiety? 
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
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circastes
Being too serious
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 5,738
Loc: 
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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imo you are enlightened if you feel da love almost 24/7 with or without others around. This means living exhilarated by our purposelessness. It takes a little bit of mental acrobatics to get there... I am well upon my way at 23... I think I ought to make the statement that you shouldn't live a long austere life to get there, you just have to be smart.
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
"There never was any forgetfulness for Self."
-Ramana Maharshi
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roboto212
Stranger
Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 691
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Quote:
circastes said:
imo you are enlightened if you feel da love almost 24/7 with or without others around. This means living exhilarated by our purposelessness.
thats an interesting way to put it... kinda matches up with most tibetan buddhism's "emptiness" of reality...
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OM MANI PADME HUM! IM SO HAPPY
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circastes
Being too serious
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 5,738
Loc:
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: WScott]
#14918739 - 08/14/11 03:23 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
WScott said:
Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery,
After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery.
lol
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
"There never was any forgetfulness for Self."
-Ramana Maharshi
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,022
Loc: 
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Well done?
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 3 months, 28 days
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this thread makes me 
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  If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,022
Loc:
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Did "the chronic" teach you the secret handshake yet.
No, I think he doesn't really want me in the group.
Yeah, theres a clubhouse & a sign thats says 'no icelander' & definitely 'no blewmeanie' 
How dare you become enlightened on my watch! I've talked to you on here for hours over the last few years plotting against you grokking your own existence
Well done for beating me!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
WScott said:
Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery,
After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery.
true dat
Elightenment sounds lame. I'd rather get a BJ and look at the stars. Any idea which spiritual path leads to that sort of "realization"?
Before enlightenment get a bj and after get another. Same same only after you get more enjoyment due to being more in your body.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
roboto212 said:
was your enlightenment immediate, or did it have noticeable stages, or some level of progression?
even after your enlightenment, do you feel like you are done, or is there still a feeling of incompleteness?
IT had noticeable stages
Done? No just beginning but nothing now feels incomplete.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14919342 - 08/14/11 07:50 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lolwut said:
According to what definition are you enlightened? Just wondering what you define it as, and how much stock you put in the term itself.
Glad you're happy and stuff of course, but how do you know its not just getting out of the pitfalls, or the end of a depression or something, or the start of another "peak experience".
According to my definition I'm enlightened. Who else could possibly, finally, completely know but me?
Enlightenment IS getting out of the pitfalls, that's what it is, nothing changes as far as the world goes, life goes on, thangs happen the same way they always have but now you don't resist them in the same way and you don't resist any resistance that you still have. Everything is acceptable.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Does enlightenment still entail death anxiety?
Yes, it entails every emotion and situation that humans are heir to. What changes is resistance and acceptance and understanding.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
circastes said:
imo you are enlightened if you feel da love almost 24/7 with or without others around. This means living exhilarated by our purposelessness. It takes a little bit of mental acrobatics to get there... I am well upon my way at 23... I think I ought to make the statement that you shouldn't live a long austere life to get there, you just have to be smart.
Very nice, Love is that which can and does accept anything and everything. I personally believe you to be already enlightened even if you are not fully aware of all that entails at this moment. I've had my eye on you and also used your words as a vehicle for my own awakening.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
WScott said:
Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery,
After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery.
true dat
Elightenment sounds lame. I'd rather get a BJ and look at the stars. Any idea which spiritual path leads to that sort of "realization"?
Before enlightenment get a bj and after get another. Same same only after you get more enjoyment due to being more in your body.
So after enlightenment more of your dick is in your body? So that means the perception is your dick is shorter even though some is now inside? And this is progress?
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Well done?
Thank you brother. It's always a good sign imo when others can rejoice with you.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
this thread makes me
Life can certainly feel that way. The things we look for and expect to find on our path become elusive or never materialize and the things we don't imagine or resist being of value on our quest can become the touchstone of our awakening. Very freaky shit.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
lolwut said:
According to what definition are you enlightened? Just wondering what you define it as, and how much stock you put in the term itself.
Glad you're happy and stuff of course, but how do you know its not just getting out of the pitfalls, or the end of a depression or something, or the start of another "peak experience".
According to my definition I'm enlightened. Who else could possibly, finally, completely know but me?
Enlightenment IS getting out of the pitfalls, that's what it is, nothing changes as far as the world goes, life goes on, thangs happen the same way they always have but now you don't resist them in the same way and you don't resist any resistance that you still have. Everything is acceptable.
Cool, was thinking along the same lines. Generally going with the flow and enjoying life the way it is with little to no expectations or unnecessary resistance to change. 
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In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
Edited by lolwut (08/14/11 08:14 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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So after enlightenment more of your dick is in your body? So that means the perception is your dick is shorter even though some is now inside? And this is progress?
Your confusion arises due to your mono focus on the cock as the source of all of your pleasure.
The whole mind and body are involved in pleasure and that intense focus on the sexual organ is the limiting factor.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Quote:
Icelander said:
So after enlightenment more of your dick is in your body? So that means the perception is your dick is shorter even though some is now inside? And this is progress?
Your confusion arises due to your mono focus on the cock as the source of all of your pleasure.
The whole mind and body are involved in pleasure and that intense focus on the sexual organ is the limiting factor.
One cock two balls. That is all.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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If that is enough for you for now then carry on.
Who knows what road brings one towards the goal?
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Quote:
Icelander said:
If that is enough for you for now then carry on.
Who knows what road brings one towards the goal?
I figure it's better than one cock one ball. Chicks don't dig that.
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Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (08/14/11 10:07 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Have you known all chicks?
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,175
Last seen: 14 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Icelander] 1
#14919756 - 08/14/11 10:23 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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grats!
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Have you known all chicks?
What cause now you are enlightened you talk funny?
Yes I have known all chicks I am the chickmaster. I didn't have to meet them to know know know them. I am not chicken of chicks I am the chickmaster.
When I learn more about the egg I hope to become an enlightened chickmaster.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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airclay
pabst & jazz
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 516
Loc: DFW
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what's the difference, to OP, in enlightenment and nirvana?
...not the band from the 90's
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anything above is a lie that I am in no part of.
Trade List
Dallas Texas DIY punk and hardcore
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,708
Last seen: 1 hour, 33 minutes
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Congratulations. What was it like physically?
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: airclay]
#14919845 - 08/14/11 10:51 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
what's the difference, to OP, in enlightenment and nirvana?
...not the band from the 90's
not the overrated band that everyone thought was great? at least they got this title right, this song really Blew.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 3 months, 28 days
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
JackofSpades said:
this thread makes me
Life can certainly feel that way. The things we look for and expect to find on our path become elusive or never materialize and the things we don't imagine or resist being of value on our quest can become the touchstone of our awakening. Very freaky shit.
Agreed. My confusion came because you typically put down the ideas of spirituality and now here you are claiming to have found enlightenment. I initially thought you were just fucking around but if you are in a good place of understanding and peace then thats cool. What was the key to opening the door?
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
Edited by JackofSpades (08/14/11 01:31 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: airclay]
#14920338 - 08/14/11 01:32 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
what's the difference, to OP, in enlightenment and nirvana?
...not the band from the 90's
The difference imo is the knowing that everything is beyond comprehending yet continuing to accept everything as it appears. It's in the awareness of cause and effect, and in being instead of trying to be. One recognizes the trying as a blockage in the system. Then all things are dealt with as they appear and without attachment or attachment to being unattached. A natural neutrality develops.
Nirvana is how it feels to get good at this.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
Edited by Icelander (08/14/11 01:32 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
JackofSpades said:
this thread makes me
Life can certainly feel that way. The things we look for and expect to find on our path become elusive or never materialize and the things we don't imagine or resist being of value on our quest can become the touchstone of our awakening. Very freaky shit.
Agreed. My confusion came because you typically put down the ideas of spirituality and now here you are claiming to have found enlightenment. I initially thought you were just fucking around but if you are in a good place of understanding and peace then thats cool. What was the key to opening the door?
My facing my death anxieties, my fear of impemanence.
To me spirituality is tied up with a lot of the same things that most human endeavors are and many people just crate religions around the unknown.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,022
Loc:
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It's in the awareness of cause and effect, and in being instead of trying to be. One recognizes the trying as a blockage in the system.
Supernice
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 1,383
Loc: 5th dimension
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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And it feels so damn good! Glad you made it brother, I was skeptical of the post when I first saw it; having read through, I now believe you are a completely different man... funny thing is nothing has changed!
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: don_vedo]
#14920650 - 08/14/11 02:32 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Nothing had changed but the focus.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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is there a glimmer in your eye now?
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Nothing had changed but the focus.
Wow. For a second there I realized that you were actually serious about becoming enlightened.
You almost had me, ya sly old fox!
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Satyapriya
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,110
Loc: Southern California
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
lolwut said:
According to what definition are you enlightened? Just wondering what you define it as, and how much stock you put in the term itself.
Glad you're happy and stuff of course, but how do you know its not just getting out of the pitfalls, or the end of a depression or something, or the start of another "peak experience".
According to my definition I'm enlightened.
well would you mind sharing your definition of enlightenment with us Icelander?
And are you going to use your realization to help create a better world? Or are you just going to take off to the higher realms and leave us all behind...
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www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. A global community focused on sharing politically, socially, environmentally, and spiritually conscious artwork, music, film, and various other forms of media. "Like" us on Facebook for a daily supply!
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: 
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There is no spoon. Is this what you're telling us?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I already have here.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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roboto212
Stranger
Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 691
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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How has the intensity of your suffering changed since your enlightenment.
What drove you to come forward about your enlightenment?
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OM MANI PADME HUM! IM SO HAPPY
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EternalCowabunga
Small sassy black girl
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 5,211
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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What the hell is going on in this thread??
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Icelander] 2
#14921204 - 08/14/11 04:48 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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just don't think there's actually someone who's enlightened, or someone who 'owns' the awareness - as this will continue to cause suffering
like the diamond sutra says...
Quote:
Subhuti, what do you think? Does a holy one say within himself: I have obtained Perfective Enlightenment?
Subhuti said: No, World-honored One. Wherefore? Because there is no such condition as that called "Perfective Enlightenment." World-honored one, if a holy one of Perfective Enlightenment said to himself "such am I," he would necessarily partake of the idea of an ego-entity, a personality, a being, or a separated individuality. World honored One, when the Buddha declares that I excel amongst holy men in the Yoga of perfect quiescence, in dwelling in seclusion, and in freedom from passions, I do not say within myself: I am a holy one of Perfective Enlightenment, free from passions. World-honored One, if I said within myself: Such am I; you would not declare: Subhuti finds happiness abiding in peace, in seclusion in the midst of the forest. This is because Subhuti abides nowhere: therefore he is called, "Subhuti, Joyful Abider-in-Peace, Dweller-in- Seclusion-in-the-Forest."
i'm sure you know this though
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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I cant believe it took you all so long to realise the sarcasm.
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I am a chronic liar.
   
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Seanfu]
#14921252 - 08/14/11 05:02 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said:
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
roboto212 said:
How has the intensity of your suffering changed since your enlightenment.
What drove you to come forward about your enlightenment?
Much less suffering, lifelong chronic low grade depression seems to be gone.
I came forward because I wanted to post something personal. I actually had no plan to do it right now, it just came out.
Actually I stated this before awhile ago and no one took it seriously. Don't know what's different now?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Seanfu]
#14921516 - 08/14/11 06:00 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
I cant believe it took you all so long to realise the sarcasm.
Maybe you're being sarcastic but I'm not. But this has been going on in me for awhile now.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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foliocb
Self-destruction...
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,073
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
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enlightenment is figuring out there's nothing to figure out?
--------------------
wat
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,175
Last seen: 14 hours, 30 minutes
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I took it seriously. I feel you've opened significantly and it was particularly noticeable to me in the last week. Strangely enough about a week prior I had a dream about Circastes. No content to it that I can recall, just the name upon waking. At the time I found it very odd as he doesn't post much and I'm not particularly drawn to what he does post. But it's starting to make a little more sense to me.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: foliocb]
#14921707 - 08/14/11 06:47 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
foliocb said:
enlightenment is figuring out there's nothing to figure out?
Yes, it's just living out this experience. You seem kind of enlightened to me.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Kickle]
#14921713 - 08/14/11 06:48 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Circastes.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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blewmeanie
Sativa Cyborg
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,512
Loc: Jacksonville FL
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
WScott said:
Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery,
After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, post on shroomery.
true dat
Elightenment sounds lame. I'd rather get a BJ and look at the stars. Any idea which spiritual path leads to that sort of "realization"?
Before enlightenment get a bj and after get another. Same same only after you get more enjoyment due to being more in your body.
Yeah, that's what all the "enlightened masters" seem to say, and it certainly makes sense. However, I'm stuck up in my head far too much for those moments of pure awareness to be more than fleeting.
Congratulations on whatever realization you've had.
How do you feel now about "death anxiety".
--------------------
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I feel it is there.
--------------------
"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Circastes.
Interesting, I remember you guys always used to come to loggerheads. He does seem to be one of the more intelligent people here, though (my 2cents since we're all talking about him lol)
From my perspective you both seem to have matured a fair bit in the last 6 months or so...
To me, there seems to be an innate desire to "neg" yourself and say "this cant be it, there must be MORE, I'm not enlightened", when the search is the only thing keeping you searching and not just enjoying things as they are. Like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey to get it to move.
Which makes me wonder, would you consider someone who always does their best to be a nice person and live their life with happiness, yet who has never heard of enlightenment or consciously searched, to be enlightened?
Enlightenment seems to be a label for having a lot of fun and not getting too serious about things. 
--------------------
In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
Edited by lolwut (08/14/11 08:52 PM)
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14922245 - 08/14/11 08:52 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Which makes me wonder, would you consider someone who always does their best to be a nice person and live their life with happiness, yet who has never heard of enlightenment or consciously searched, to be enlightened?
there's many different ideas about what enlightenment is. i'm of the school of thought (mahayana buddhism) that enlightenment is much more than what is commonly thought, and involves traversing the bhumis (bodhisattva levels) to full buddhahood, omniscience. this a lot of people will disagree with i know, especially people who think they're already enlightened, or that enlightenment is simply the acceptance of everything as it is (which may be true, but it takes mental purification and accumulation of wisdom to see things 'as they are')
people who are less inclined to the more spiritual side of enlightenment might say this is fantasy and becomes an obstacle to enlightenment and happiness, and it certainly can be if people chase after it and don't enjoy the present. but i think there is more to enlightenment (at least full enlightenment in the mahayana context) than simply enjoying the present, no matter how wonderful such a thing is. many very realized (imo) people have scoffed at the notion that they're enlightened, such as the dalai lama, as in the mahayana tradition enlightenment is a pretty special thing. but as you say, you have to balance the emphasis of progressing on "the path" with an acceptance of the present and a desirelessness of future attainments.
that's my two cents, and i realize people will likely disagree
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,175
Last seen: 14 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14922278 - 08/14/11 08:58 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I'm stoked to have, as the sudden school talks about, "realized the essence of the mind"
what that means in all the enlightenment talk I haven't the foggiest clue
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Kickle]
#14922314 - 08/14/11 09:04 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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well on the first bhumi, a bodhisattva has had direct realization of emptiness, and as a result loses attachment to all things, including freely giving away the limbs of their body without a sense of loss.
in my probably deluded opinion, and i'm sure there's great zen masters who disprove this, but i feel a lot of zen students underestimate full enlightenment. and most indian masters agreed that the path is always a gradual one, despite there being sudden realizations along the way. 
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14922372 - 08/14/11 09:17 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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WELL SAID
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,212
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14922405 - 08/14/11 09:24 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
well on the first bhumi, a bodhisattva has had direct realization of emptiness, and as a result loses attachment to all things, including freely giving away the limbs of their body without a sense of loss.
in my probably deluded opinion, and i'm sure there's great zen masters who disprove this, but i feel a lot of zen students underestimate full enlightenment. and most indian masters agreed that the path is always a gradual one, despite there being sudden realizations along the way.
I'm discovering for myself how gradual it is. I think the important thing is to not worry about some 'final liberation', as I think this could turn into a far away goal that's like any other desire. I think the main thing is to keep accepting what the universe gives me. If things work out that I achieve ultimate nirvana, then cool But I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket.
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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for sure! don't let the "goal to end suffering" cause you suffering, and don't worry about any 'attainments' or anything. just keep making wise choices and allow things to unfold imo
and don't forget that you are the universe too!
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Edited by deff (08/14/11 09:32 PM)
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,212
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14922447 - 08/14/11 09:32 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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That's awesome! I found in my personal experience, I was obsessed with finding nirvana, it created tremendous suffering, and I feel I'm finally getting over it 
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
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haha that sounds like a common problem i think, awesome that you're over it! we can often exaggerate our own suffering by trying to find the 'perfect cure'
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14922535 - 08/14/11 09:53 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lolwut said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Circastes.
Interesting, I remember you guys always used to come to loggerheads. He does seem to be one of the more intelligent people here, though (my 2cents since we're all talking about him lol)
From my perspective you both seem to have matured a fair bit in the last 6 months or so...
To me, there seems to be an innate desire to "neg" yourself and say "this cant be it, there must be MORE, I'm not enlightened", when the search is the only thing keeping you searching and not just enjoying things as they are. Like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey to get it to move.
Which makes me wonder, would you consider someone who always does their best to be a nice person and live their life with happiness, yet who has never heard of enlightenment or consciously searched, to be enlightened?
Enlightenment seems to be a label for having a lot of fun and not getting too serious about things.
I challenged him every chance I got. I wanted to know if he really grokked what he was saying. In many ways I believe he does.
I really don't know what enlightenment is. I threw it out there so we could discuss this subject. But for me enlightenment is being able to act and conduct yourself on what you say rather than just intellectually believing. Does it dynamically effect your actions or is it just so much lip service and speculation? I prefer the term awakened. I woke up from the cultural dream I was indoctrinated into. I woke up enough to be able to act in different ways than I have before.
It's all about what you do.
I have a friend who seems to be naturally enlightened. I've known him for maybe ten years and I've never seen him sad or down. When he smiles at you you can see an almost material brightness and it's almost always there. He's kind to everyone and very generous but I've never once heard him discuss spirituality. It's the darnedest thing.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Well that about sums it up. Not only aren't you enlightened but you don't seem to know what it is. But that's OK progress is good.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Posts: 13,175
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14922754 - 08/14/11 10:38 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
well on the first bhumi, a bodhisattva has had direct realization of emptiness, and as a result loses attachment to all things, including freely giving away the limbs of their body without a sense of loss.
in my probably deluded opinion, and i'm sure there's great zen masters who disprove this, but i feel a lot of zen students underestimate full enlightenment. and most indian masters agreed that the path is always a gradual one, despite there being sudden realizations along the way.
Well from that point onward there is no one to enlighten so while things will continue, who are they continuing to? Who finally reaches the end of the road? No one in particular. That makes it impossible to argue for or against someone reaching enlightenment beyond that point.
"Subhuti, it is the same concerning bodhisattvas. If a bodhisattva announces, "I will liberate all living creatures," he is not rightly called a bodhisattva. Wherefore? Because, Subhuti, there is really no such condition as that called bodhisattvaship, because Buddha teaches that all things are devoid of selfhood, devoid of personality, devoid of entity, and devoid of separate individuality. Subhuti, if a bodhisattva announces, "I will set forth majestic buddha-lands," one does not call him a bodhisattva, because the Tathagata has declared that the setting forth of majestic buddha-lands is not really such: "a majestic setting forth" is just a name given to it.
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,212
Loc:
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Well that about sums it up. Not only aren't you enlightened but you don't seem to know what it is. But that's OK progress is good.
I don't think anyone really knows what enlightenment is. You can only experience it I believe.
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NastyDHL
breaking the cycles
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 3,456
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It took 58 fucking years but better late than never. I have to admit I was a little bit envious of those of you here who made it in your 20s, but now that I've made it too it's all cool.
i don't think an enlightened person would ever feel compelled to tell other people that they are enlightened.
i feel like being enlightened means you are above emotional waves as you are at peace with your existence and so do not hinge feeling high on the fulfillment of the mental gears that churn out desires...most importantly its being above human drama and so you enter human interaction from a state of being above it-not egotistically-but emotionally. an enlightened person would never attempt to reveal or speak their role in this human drama to another human because they would garner no energy from it.
i think we just have different definitions of 'enlightened'...
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deff
just relax
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Posts: 7,067
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Kickle]
#14922804 - 08/14/11 10:53 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
deff said:
well on the first bhumi, a bodhisattva has had direct realization of emptiness, and as a result loses attachment to all things, including freely giving away the limbs of their body without a sense of loss.
in my probably deluded opinion, and i'm sure there's great zen masters who disprove this, but i feel a lot of zen students underestimate full enlightenment. and most indian masters agreed that the path is always a gradual one, despite there being sudden realizations along the way.
Well from that point onward there is no one to enlighten so while things will continue, who are they continuing to? Who finally reaches the end of the road? No one in particular. That makes it impossible to argue for or against someone reaching enlightenment beyond that point IMO.
"Subhuti, it is the same concerning bodhisattvas. If a bodhisattva announces, "I will liberate all living creatures," he is not rightly called a bodhisattva. Wherefore? Because, Subhuti, there is really no such condition as that called bodhisattvaship, because Buddha teaches that all things are devoid of selfhood, devoid of personality, devoid of entity, and devoid of separate individuality. Subhuti, if a bodhisattva announces, "I will set forth majestic buddha-lands," one does not call him a bodhisattva, because the Tathagata has declared that the setting forth of majestic buddha-lands is not really such: "a majestic setting forth" is just a name given to it.
true! but was there really a person to enlighten ever, even from the beginning? from the first bhumi onwards the wisdom of emptiness deepens dispelling very subtle obscurations, and the "bodhisattva" perfects certain abilities like concentration and meditative absorption. also their ability to help others increases dramatically. from the outside view of the bodhisattva, there are changes between the bhumis. also for the bodhisattva's own experience, their initial realization of emptiness of first bhumi is not complete despite being very profound, and there's a difference in their realization between meditation sessions and post-meditative sessions, whereas with a buddha there is never any difference in realization as their realization is complete.
and i like the diamond sutra quote! 
you can read about the bhumis here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C5%ABmi_%28Buddhism%29#The_first_bh.C5.ABmi.2C_the_Very_Joyous
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14922821 - 08/14/11 10:57 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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but was there really a person to enlighten ever, even from the beginning?
really fantastic, thanks
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: NastyDHL]
#14922959 - 08/14/11 11:28 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
NastyDHL said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
It took 58 fucking years but better late than never. I have to admit I was a little bit envious of those of you here who made it in your 20s, but now that I've made it too it's all cool.
i don't think an enlightened person would ever feel compelled to tell other people that they are enlightened.
i feel like being enlightened means you are above emotional waves as you are at peace with your existence and so do not hinge feeling high on the fulfillment of the mental gears that churn out desires...most importantly its being above human drama and so you enter human interaction from a state of being above it-not egotistically-but emotionally. an enlightened person would never attempt to reveal or speak their role in this human drama to another human because they would garner no energy from it.
i think we just have different definitions of 'enlightened'...
People can be totally silent yet at the same time very arrogant. I know because I was once at that place. I think you can't define how an enlightened person will act. They will act however the Way decides for them to act. Action doesn't define enlightenment, I believe surrender is the only thing that really matters.
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
lolwut said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Circastes.
Interesting, I remember you guys always used to come to loggerheads. He does seem to be one of the more intelligent people here, though (my 2cents since we're all talking about him lol)
From my perspective you both seem to have matured a fair bit in the last 6 months or so...
To me, there seems to be an innate desire to "neg" yourself and say "this cant be it, there must be MORE, I'm not enlightened", when the search is the only thing keeping you searching and not just enjoying things as they are. Like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey to get it to move.
Which makes me wonder, would you consider someone who always does their best to be a nice person and live their life with happiness, yet who has never heard of enlightenment or consciously searched, to be enlightened?
Enlightenment seems to be a label for having a lot of fun and not getting too serious about things.
I challenged him every chance I got. I wanted to know if he really grokked what he was saying. In many ways I believe he does.
I really don't know what enlightenment is. I threw it out there so we could discuss this subject. But for me enlightenment is being able to act and conduct yourself on what you say rather than just intellectually believing. Does it dynamically effect your actions or is it just so much lip service and speculation? I prefer the term awakened. I woke up from the cultural dream I was indoctrinated into. I woke up enough to be able to act in different ways than I have before.
It's all about what you do.
I have a friend who seems to be naturally enlightened. I've known him for maybe ten years and I've never seen him sad or down. When he smiles at you you can see an almost material brightness and it's almost always there. He's kind to everyone and very generous but I've never once heard him discuss spirituality. It's the darnedest thing.
I guess it's only through the "other" that you are discussing with that you fully become aware of your own views, like you wouldn't know what "heads" was without knowing what "tails" is.
One of my best friends who I've known my whole life is that way too, that's why I was asking. Have never talked about any spirituality with him, and knowing him he's not into it at all, yet he has a firm grasp of many political, religious, and ethical issues and always seems bright, happy, and humble. Very interesting.
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In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
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Satyapriya
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,110
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Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I prefer the term awakened.
Same here. And I think there are many different levels of awakening, as there are many aspects of our own culture we need waking up from. As well as many spiritual truths we need waking up TO, beyond that. All in good time I believe 
But yeah, I would definitely say you are an awakened being. And to probably a pretty high degree.
I do wish you were enlightened though.. then maybe i could go back to the philosophy forum without fear of having to hear about death anxiety all the time
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www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. A global community focused on sharing politically, socially, environmentally, and spiritually conscious artwork, music, film, and various other forms of media. "Like" us on Facebook for a daily supply!
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roboto212
Stranger
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icelander sounds enlightened to me
I believe there is a big difference between realizing the Self (emptiness/Nirvana) and being Awake though, and this is where some people may get confused. When I say Awake I am talking about Primordial Awareness/Buddha Nature/Rigpa. You know it when you know it
I read somewhere that the realization of an Arahat and a Buddha are the same... both have realized Emptiness.. but an Arahat does not live in Emptiness (Rigpa, Awakeness) 24/7, and a Buddha does
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OM MANI PADME HUM! IM SO HAPPY
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: NastyDHL]
#14923987 - 08/15/11 03:32 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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i think we just have different definitions of 'enlightened'...
everyone does. My definition is something that is possible for humans. Many definitions, imo are impossible for humans.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Shrooomtastic said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I prefer the term awakened.
Same here. And I think there are many different levels of awakening, as there are many aspects of our own culture we need waking up from. As well as many spiritual truths we need waking up TO, beyond that. All in good time I believe
But yeah, I would definitely say you are an awakened being. And to probably a pretty high degree.
I do wish you were enlightened though.. then maybe i could go back to the philosophy forum without fear of having to hear about death anxiety all the time
I agree with the above.
I speak of death anxiety as a Bodhisattva. I don't need to talk about it for myself anymore but my confrontation with it was the one thing that tipped the scales for me and I want to share that just in case it will work for some others here. In fact I've gotten at least half a dozen PMs telling me it has.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I'd like to add that I don't consider myself unique here. I think there are many awakened posters here and they are not all found in this particular forum by a long shot.
I think there are always a tiny percentage of humans that wake up in any historical time period.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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crkhd
☾☼☽
Registered: 12/29/08
Posts: 1,928
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14924044 - 08/15/11 03:52 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
true! but was there really a person to enlighten ever, even from the beginning?
Personally I think "enlightenment" is a very specific kind of neural connection in the brain that is either formed or uncovered after practice to get to it. The "person" to be enlightened is the brain.
Initially we spring out of the womb as the raw empty self beginning to experience and accumulate information. After a while this data we accumulate creates a homunculus in us that the brain sustains, as a program writing itself. The self writes a diary but over time, it begins to be so absorbed in writing the best diary that the diary itself becomes indirectly alive, as a puppet on strings.
Enlightenment is the process of that homunculus being rendered inert such that it becomes an object of observation instead of the self; this would mirror physically observable changes in the brain.
If this homunculus is observed only, that's like read only access. However living as the homunculus aka ego, the very act of observing the homunculus in relation to something else requires that this structure is modified so the ego is always the "better one", thus the program is perpetually trying to rewrite itself to be on top. No data structure can really be completely adapted in every situation/environment which is why we just say fuck it, and use that blank program we started off with. Thus, enlightenment.
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
<i AM breath rippling through water|light reflecting to self with thought AM i>
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foliocb
Self-destruction...
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,073
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14924216 - 08/15/11 05:12 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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did you recently have an aha/eureka moment? what was it like if so?
i'm not so sure I believe in 'enlightenment', I used to and then realized that it was a high horse that I was trying to climb onto so that I would stand out more and be able to feel better about myself and my existence when compared to other peoples.
I still find myself being hesitant in certain situations, then when later reflecting upon it I always tell myself that this is all i've got, yet still somehow I am looking for something bigger, a larger knowledge that I currently don't have access too, then at other times I let go and realize that there's nothing to learn or inherit other then to just be.
Accepting the fact that I am finite is a hard thing to do and I have not conquered it, and I still find myself wasting lots of time and being overly hesitant in certain experiences when I should just be letting go and enjoying what I got, while I got it. I by no means find myself enlightened or awaken anymore, but it is something that I want to pursue more.
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wat
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,022
Loc:
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14924532 - 08/15/11 08:20 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
true! but was there really a person to enlighten ever, even from the beginning? from the first bhumi onwards the wisdom of emptiness deepens dispelling very subtle obscurations, and the "bodhisattva" perfects certain abilities like concentration and meditative absorption. also their ability to help others increases dramatically. from the outside view of the bodhisattva, there are changes between the bhumis. also for the bodhisattva's own experience, their initial realization of emptiness of first bhumi is not complete despite being very profound, and there's a difference in their realization between meditation sessions and post-meditative sessions, whereas with a buddha there is never any difference in realization as their realization is complete.
I wish you'd talk about this stuff more, grades, levels etc are all surface appearances, everyone is already the Buddha, complete with no differences
Quote:
NastyDHL said:
i don't think an enlightened person would ever feel compelled to tell other people that they are enlightened.
I kinda agree, unless they were directly asked 'are you enlightened?'
If this thread was a test by Icelander to proove that anyone who claims enlightenment gets instant blind praise & attention, it worked very well
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: foliocb]
#14924556 - 08/15/11 08:36 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Accepting the fact that I am finite is a hard thing to do and I have not conquered it,
Personally in my experience with what for better term I called awakened or even enlightened, (but who cares I could have called it my left nut) I stared into my own impermanence so hard and long that it began to lose it's dramatic meaning for me. (it took me to the brink of suicide for almost a year) I really never expected to be able to do this although it was my original goal when first deciding to look into death anxiety as my motivational force for living.
At a certain point I realized that trying to do anything about removing my anxiety was futile and hoping for anything was a form of trying. So I just observed, and observed and observed and let the emotional states come up and then watched myself squirm and make attempts to hide from my own awareness and just took note of all that without expecting any reward ever, whatsoever. Other than the reward of knowing I could look at it. All this was done and still is done imperfectly BTW.
One day however I found myself being happy. Now I've had life long chronic low grade depression so it was something I couldn't help notice. Now lately this has happened more or less constantly and if not outright happy then at least in a neutral space.
This is what happened to me and life looks very different now. I don't get caught up in anything we do as humans. I don't buy into the cultural trip as a reality or my trips as a reality, I see my personality structure as something impersonal if that makes sense. As in not belonging to anyone. It's all kind of strange and not easy to explain as it is in the realm of "feeling".
Now I have "believed" intellectually all of this for many years now but until my direct work with confronting (read learning to watch without flinching) my personal fears around my personal death and impermanence, none of my "beliefs" had any effect on my personal experience or really altered my life in any way. That has changed and why I now consider myself to some degree, awake.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Well that about sums it up. Not only aren't you enlightened but you don't seem to know what it is. But that's OK progress is good.
Sounds like a dick comment. It was stated above. You tart to become enlightened when you reaise there are no answers and just be. This is a form of enlightenment, a dispelling of bullshit.
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I am a chronic liar.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Seanfu]
#14924816 - 08/15/11 10:26 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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That pretty much it. I'm awake enough to act on these things I've realized finally. I never said I'm ultimately enlightened whatever that is or if such a thing exists. I'm the same old fart I've always been. It's just a lot funnier now.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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Icelander, Boddhisatva of death anxiety.
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In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14924828 - 08/15/11 10:29 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah that's my gig, just not by design. My design anyway. I'm compelled by the big bang.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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I AM the big bang, and so are you. 
Edited by lolwut (08/15/11 10:43 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14924858 - 08/15/11 10:39 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I guess so. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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Feels  man
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In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,067
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 7 hours, 9 minutes
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
deff said:
true! but was there really a person to enlighten ever, even from the beginning? from the first bhumi onwards the wisdom of emptiness deepens dispelling very subtle obscurations, and the "bodhisattva" perfects certain abilities like concentration and meditative absorption. also their ability to help others increases dramatically. from the outside view of the bodhisattva, there are changes between the bhumis. also for the bodhisattva's own experience, their initial realization of emptiness of first bhumi is not complete despite being very profound, and there's a difference in their realization between meditation sessions and post-meditative sessions, whereas with a buddha there is never any difference in realization as their realization is complete.
I wish you'd talk about this stuff more, grades, levels etc are all surface appearances, everyone is already the Buddha, complete with no differences
both views are true i think
the bhumis are just a rough estimate of what occurs as one deepens the realization of their true nature, but their nature itself doesn't change with the stages
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,022
Loc:
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: deff]
#14925078 - 08/15/11 12:01 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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i just liked how you pointed out that a Buddhas realization is never different, that meditation makes no difference to his state, in my mind it really makes clear how perfect & unexcelled Nirvana is
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 4,239
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Icelander, do you think being retired has had anything to do with you becoming less attached?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Well I was starting to become less attached and so I retired. I really only had money for maybe ten years with the lifestyle I have now. I knew something had to change because I was almost completely unhappy. I just wasn't sure what, how, or if I was up to it.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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crkhd
☾☼☽
Registered: 12/29/08
Posts: 1,928
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 9 hours, 58 minutes
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
i just liked how you pointed out that a Buddhas realization is never different, that meditation makes no difference to his state, in my mind it really makes clear how perfect & unexcelled Nirvana is
But if you can "deepen your realization" of your true nature then that is a physical change. If there is a difference between one in nirvana and one not so, then there clearly must be something physically different.
Of course your true nature is indeed empty of all things, so how could it change? Yet I would consider a lot of people awake/enlightened but if you cut them, they will scream like a bitch. Unlike this guy:
Who is more "aware of their Buddha nature"?
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
<i AM breath rippling through water|light reflecting to self with thought AM i>
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foliocb
Self-destruction...
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,073
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14926265 - 08/15/11 04:06 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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whos the author of the book you recommended?
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wat
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14926269 - 08/15/11 04:07 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I would have liked to converse with him the day before this event. Obviously something very unusual was going on with this guy.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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foliocb
Self-destruction...
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,073
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
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I sometimes still feel that I am searching for something, a feeling, a tipping point, and other times I know that it's pointless and i'm just chasing my own tail. Sounds like Icelander finally 'felt' something after a long time, I am wondering if such a feeling exists for me as well. .
The closest i've gotten recently was being at the beach with some friends and just enjoying the day with no real plans in particular, we spent an hour digging in the sand and making a makeshift hot tub in the sand, but the entire time I knew it was pointless and the water would eventually get higher and the sand would return to normal: that was absolute purposelessness to me, enjoying everything in the moment and yet being fully aware that it was all for nothing in the end.
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wat
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,212
Loc:
Last seen: 6 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: foliocb]
#14927447 - 08/15/11 08:20 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I think that's what fun is all about. Doing something for no other reason besides that it's fun.
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circastes
Being too serious
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 5,738
Loc:
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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You know Icelander many people live until they're 80, and there's no telling what medicine is going to achieve over the next 20 years. I wouldn't be getting too anxious yet. :P Just an aside.
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
"There never was any forgetfulness for Self."
-Ramana Maharshi
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 11,026
Loc: The Hand
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Quote:
White Beard said:
I think that's what fun is all about. Doing something for no other reason besides that it's fun.
Well that and to fuck with people. Two birds with one stone.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 4,239
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Quote:
circastes said:
You know Icelander many people live until they're 80, and there's no telling what medicine is going to achieve over the next 20 years. I wouldn't be getting too anxious yet. :P Just an aside.
If that's the case, he'll have to go back to work to afford it. and what a waste it would be after all this time facing death anxiety just to live a long life. That's a dangerous prospect...spend enough time living, and you might forget why you were facing it in the first place.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: foliocb]
#14928279 - 08/15/11 10:23 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
foliocb said:
I sometimes still feel that I am searching for something, a feeling, a tipping point, and other times I know that it's pointless and i'm just chasing my own tail. Sounds like Icelander finally 'felt' something after a long time, I am wondering if such a feeling exists for me as well. .
The closest i've gotten recently was being at the beach with some friends and just enjoying the day with no real plans in particular, we spent an hour digging in the sand and making a makeshift hot tub in the sand, but the entire time I knew it was pointless and the water would eventually get higher and the sand would return to normal: that was absolute purposelessness to me, enjoying everything in the moment and yet being fully aware that it was all for nothing in the end.
Your day at the beach is it. It's just carrying that into every or most of the activities of life. There's no great magic imo, just letting things happen without trying to be in charge.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
circastes said:
You know Icelander many people live until they're 80, and there's no telling what medicine is going to achieve over the next 20 years. I wouldn't be getting too anxious yet. :P Just an aside.
I'll deal with that when the time comes. I'm not going there right now as I'm doing just fine. I'm not anxious about my future hardly ever anymore.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I really have no desire to be really old with the body that goes with that. Unless I was blissed out most of the time that is.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 1,383
Loc: 5th dimension
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Icelander] 1
#14928493 - 08/15/11 10:59 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I really have no desire to be really old with the body that goes with that. Unless I was blissed out most of the time that is.
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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Cups
technically "here"
Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,924
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It's nice to see you've finally found
A Whole New Way Of Looking At The Day
Feel something like that?
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No more words of wisdom.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Cups]
#14929878 - 08/16/11 06:59 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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nice
When I started this thread I though it would get about six replies.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
Edited by Icelander (08/16/11 07:15 AM)
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crkhd
☾☼☽
Registered: 12/29/08
Posts: 1,928
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 9 hours, 58 minutes
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Icelander, how anxious of death do you think that monk on fire was?
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
<i AM breath rippling through water|light reflecting to self with thought AM i>
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14930144 - 08/16/11 08:45 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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In my opinion, one of the biggest spiritual dilemmas isn't about living in the now, or being compassionate, or grappling with philosophical metaphors. If you are supposedly enlightened and do not fear death, then kill yourself [He was being hypothetical, - Whale's lawyer]. But seriously, once we are convinced that life is a grand mystery that's full of organized chaos, and that reality is but a limited filter; that heaven and hell are illusions and the present moment is always the best moment... then what argument do we have against killing ourselves? I mean, come on, this ride isn't that god damned fun. I'm rarely surprised anymore.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14930156 - 08/16/11 08:52 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
crkhd said:
Icelander, how anxious of death do you think that monk on fire was?
That would be very hard to say. I'm guessing he has a belief about death and what it means, that he uses as a shield for the anxiety that is inherent in us humans. It's hard to know how and what another human feels.
The question is, how anxious am I and what can be done with that?
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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The reason we're all alive here now and haven't killed ourselves is because we're betting that in the long run, the journey is worth it, regardless of what we're currently going through. In essence we're all placing a bet on life, saying "I will enjoy it more than I'll hate it". Seems like a good bet to me 
--------------------
In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
The Whale said:
In my opinion, one of the biggest spiritual dilemmas isn't about living in the now, or being compassionate, or grappling with philosophical metaphors. If you are supposedly enlightened and do not fear death, then kill yourself [He was being hypothetical, - Whale's lawyer]. But seriously, once we are convinced that life is a grand mystery that's full of organized chaos, and that reality is but a limited filter; that heaven and hell are illusions and the present moment is always the best moment... then what argument do we have against killing ourselves? I mean, come on, this ride isn't that god damned fun. I'm rarely surprised anymore.
That's a worthwhile pov imo. Now it begs the question, why are you continuing to live?
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14930163 - 08/16/11 08:55 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
lolwut said:
The reason we're all alive here now and haven't killed ourselves is because we're betting that in the long run, the journey is worth it, regardless of what we're currently going through. In essence we're all placing a bet on life, saying "I will enjoy it more than I'll hate it". Seems like a good bet to me
I would have to agree, most of us live life in a projected future. Letting go of the future and the past are major accomplishments for any human.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Fear, mostly.
But I also possess what lolwut suggested: I believe the good experiences will over-ride the bad as time progresses.
Still, there is a deep-seated curiosity within me concerning the mystical obviousness of suicide. If every tiny step we make is beautiful, if nature makes no mistakes and everything is a causal cascade of connections, then how could we ever err by pulling the trigger? It's just another butterfly being born, another seed sprouting, another smile on the face of a stranger.
Suicide (in this way, rather than escapist) almost seems like an act of pure faith, as ironic as that seems.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: The Whale] 1
#14930185 - 08/16/11 09:05 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I agree. We tend to moralize about suicide due to our impermanence anxiety. Our total investment in our little island as being ultimately important makes the idea of suicide intolerable for most and so much that we judge and attempt to control the personal decisions of others.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
Edited by Icelander (08/16/11 09:05 AM)
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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Quote:
Icelander said:Quote:
lolwut said:
The reason we're all alive here now and haven't killed ourselves is because we're betting that in the long run, the journey is worth it, regardless of what we're currently going through. In essence we're all placing a bet on life, saying "I will enjoy it more than I'll hate it". Seems like a good bet to me
I would have to agree, most of us live life in a projected future. Letting go of the future and the past are major accomplishments for any human.
I know we all say "live in the now", but that can seem like just a buzzword at times. While its best to not dwell on the past or the future, there's no denying the Now includes the future, simply because the Now changes every moment, so it's best to at least have a survival plan to the best of your abilities, so you don't have to be scrounging for your next meal and shelter, for example.
Maybe live for the moment, but don't deny the future or ignore the past, because otherwise the next "moments" might not be as good, in the sense that you could wind up not having as good as future as possible, or making the same mistakes you could of learnt from in the past. (is that the definition of living in a projected future? lol)
To me letting go of the future means realising I can only do the best I can (and its best to not let myself down), and letting go of the past means I can't change what's already happened so just learn from it as much as possible.
--------------------
In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
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airclay
pabst & jazz
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 516
Loc: DFW
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14930201 - 08/16/11 09:12 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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wouldn't suicide be going against the natural way?
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anything above is a lie that I am in no part of.
Trade List
Dallas Texas DIY punk and hardcore
Edited by airclay (08/16/11 09:12 AM)
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: airclay]
#14930229 - 08/16/11 09:22 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Icelander, since you're enlightened you will find this funny and give me +1 karma points for sharing it here:
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14930249 - 08/16/11 09:28 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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To me letting go of the future means realising I can only do the best I can (and its best to not let myself down), and letting go of the past means I can't change what's already happened so just learn from it as much as possible.
That's doing a lot.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: airclay] 1
#14930253 - 08/16/11 09:30 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
wouldn't suicide be going against the natural way?
Isn't everything natural. Can a natural product (us) of a natural world do anything that is not natural?
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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I'm happyQuote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
airclay said:
wouldn't suicide be going against the natural way?
Isn't everything natural. Can a natural product (us) of a natural world do anything that is not natural?
Similarly,
How can a universe which is supposedly unconscious give birth to a species that is conscious?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I think you are comparing apples and oranges here.
Consciousness might be seen as similar to any adaptive survival skill that a living thing develops. While I don't personally know if the universe is conscious as a whole it's entirely possible that consciousness is an emergent property of a complex brain and it's function. We may be giving consciousness a privileged place in nature that it does not deserve. This would be understandable considering our reliance on it and the nature of how it functions.
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airclay
pabst & jazz
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 516
Loc: DFW
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
airclay said:
wouldn't suicide be going against the natural way?
Isn't everything natural. Can a natural product (us) of a natural world do anything that is not natural?
I'm not as far down the path as you and others here seem, but I feel like it's an unnatural act to free the soul by choice. To me it seems the same as eating meat?
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anything above is a lie that I am in no part of.
Trade List
Dallas Texas DIY punk and hardcore
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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Quote:
The Whale said:
Icelander, since you're enlightened you will find this funny and give me +1 karma points for sharing it here:
f-ing funny
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I think you are comparing apples and oranges here.
Consciousness might be seen as similar to any adaptive survival skill that a living thing develops. While I don't personally know if the universe is conscious as a whole it's entirely possible that consciousness is an emergent property of a complex brain and it's function. We may be giving consciousness a privileged place in nature that it does not deserve. This would be understandable considering our reliance on it and the nature of how it functions.
If it's just any ordinary emergent property, then how come we haven't been able to predict, model, or reproduce it elsewhere? Science isn't a panacea for understanding phenomena, and surely even if it will solve the riddle of consciousness via neural networks or whatever else, it may take awhile. I get it. Still, nothing suggests that if we sum up a bunch of parts we will get consciousness. Hell, we can't even prove that other animals are conscious, save for some psychology papers that reason by presumptuous analogy.
MIND: It's the best shit since sliced bread.
I peaked in my synapses and genome but I can't find this commercial there anywhere.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
The Whale said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I think you are comparing apples and oranges here.
Consciousness might be seen as similar to any adaptive survival skill that a living thing develops. While I don't personally know if the universe is conscious as a whole it's entirely possible that consciousness is an emergent property of a complex brain and it's function. We may be giving consciousness a privileged place in nature that it does not deserve. This would be understandable considering our reliance on it and the nature of how it functions.
If it's just any ordinary emergent property, then how come we haven't been able to predict, model, or reproduce it elsewhere? Science isn't a panacea for understanding phenomena, and surely even if it will solve the riddle of consciousness via neural networks or whatever else, it may take awhile. I get it. Still, nothing suggests that if we sum up a bunch of parts we will get consciousness. Hell, we can't even prove that other animals are conscious, save for some psychology papers that reason by presumptuous analogy.
MIND: It's the best shit since sliced bread.
I peaked in my synapses and genome but I can't find this commercial there anywhere.
Well then it's all an unknown and one cannot assume one way or the other. At least I don't. I have a hunch but my hunches have been wrong many times.
And saying something is ordinary is pretty subjective. IMO nothing is ordinary when it comes to creation.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: airclay]
#14930449 - 08/16/11 10:17 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
airclay said:
wouldn't suicide be going against the natural way?
Isn't everything natural. Can a natural product (us) of a natural world do anything that is not natural?
I'm not as far down the path as you and others here seem, but I feel like it's an unnatural act to free the soul by choice. To me it seems the same as eating meat?
Well you can see things in whatever way suits you. Does the lion consider meat eating unnatural, or should we see it as unnatural? Likely not as many animals eat each other and we are not unique in that at all. And is not a plant alive and suffering the loss when we kill and eat it?
And I don't even know that a soul exists. I have no evidence for one and no experience of one in myself.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Respectful answer. We know we don't know.
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airclay
pabst & jazz
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 516
Loc: DFW
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
airclay said:
wouldn't suicide be going against the natural way?
Isn't everything natural. Can a natural product (us) of a natural world do anything that is not natural?
I'm not as far down the path as you and others here seem, but I feel like it's an unnatural act to free the soul by choice. To me it seems the same as eating meat?
Well you can see things in whatever way suits you. Does the lion consider meat eating unnatural, or should we see it as unnatural? Likely not as many animals eat each other and we are not unique in that at all. And is not a plant alive and suffering the loss when we kill and eat it?
And I don't even know that a soul exists. I have no evidence for one and no experience of one in myself.
this is a very good answer. thanks. my train of thought comes from a krsna background, although I never became a devotee.
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anything above is a lie that I am in no part of.
Trade List
Dallas Texas DIY punk and hardcore
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: airclay] 1
#14930621 - 08/16/11 10:58 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Personally I've never been a fan of how nature operates. Every living thing in mortal competition to stay alive. Everything devouring and excreting it out as waste for more life to grow and do the same in continual cycle. We humans have to take part in this cycle no matter what our beliefs. Even if I don't directly participate in all this due to the way culture supports me, it is still happening on my behalf. My home was once habitat for many other living things that imo are just as important ultimately as me.
But my not liking it does not change that reality.
Think about this, considering how much violence is done by us or for us, suicide might be seen to be an act of love and caring. My position is that it's all up to the individual and his choices are his or her choices and not my business. I have given myself permission to end my existence here if it seems good to me. I first had to disregard the dictates of culture in the form of it's institutions/religions, friends and family. Not an easy thing to do in my case at least. But I consider that an honest decision as an option and could be considered another freedom to be who and what I am.
Ultimately I cannot honestly judge what would be right or wrong. Most of my ideas on right and wrong have been instilled in me by the process of being included in a culture that we now call human. I was programmed to be what I am and think what I think. I find this a difficult concept to accept but have concluded it a truth about my life.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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Quote:
I was programmed to be what I am and think what I think. I find this a difficult concept to accept but have concluded it a truth about my life.
And in your 58 years you didn't have any experiences that radically disrupted the 'program?' Significantly enough to give you hope that that is not the Truth about who you or any of us are?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Depends on how you mean that. I have had those programs momentarily disrupted, at least to some degree and many times.
And I did not say it was the truth about who I am. I really don't have a clue about that. I said it was true about my life or the conditions under which I primarily operate.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Icelander, in your ripe wisdom, what enlightening reflections have you gleaned about women? Female humans are more elusive than the golden grail of Taoism.
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,022
Loc:
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
The Whale said:
Icelander, in your ripe wisdom, what enlightening reflections have you gleaned about women? Female humans are more elusive than the golden grail of Taoism.
Ah women. They are on their own path.
Were I to say more you would think me unenlightened.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 1,383
Loc: 5th dimension
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Were I to say more you would think me unenlightened.
This is a great thread, full of some awesome personal opinions and thoughts on life. Thanks everyone for contributing, I have really enjoyed following along. Special thanks to you Ice, some thought out, straight to the point responses you've been giving; I can feel the truth in your responses from what I believe is probably many many miles away!
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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Samurai Drifter
Wandering Mindfuck
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 5,273
Loc: Bordering Canada
Last seen: 3 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: don_vedo]
#14933300 - 08/16/11 08:42 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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My glimpses of "enlightenment" basically amount to not getting worked up over my own thoughts and feelings; just keeping a positive outlook and staying focused on what I can do right now (rather than worrying about the future or being depressed over what's already happened). I will consider myself enlightened when the undercurrent of anxiety that's been affecting me for a long time finally dissipates for good.
I know philosophy won't get me any closer to any ultimate understanding but I argue it 'cause it's fun.
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The obstacle is the path.
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Cups
technically "here"
Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,924
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Quote:
Icelander said:
When I started this thread I though it would get about six replies.
Are you kidding? You being enlightened is like Make A Wish type shit for the S&M.
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No more words of wisdom.
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mushiepussy
Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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Everyone is born into the cave of self delusion, the only way out is to question where and what you are, as well as how and why you are there in the first place.
The day you have asked these questions, your quest for enlightenment begins. The day you have answered these questions, you are enlightened.
That's just how I see it.
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TeamAmerica
Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
FishOilTheKid said:
So what happened...??
I awoked.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,367
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: don_vedo]
#14933981 - 08/16/11 10:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
don_vedo said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I really have no desire to be really old with the body that goes with that. Unless I was blissed out most of the time that is.
Lah'Kesh
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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mushiepussy
Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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And now that I have taken the time to read the thread..
I am happy for you Icelander, truly.
Continuing metaphorically.. I'd bet you broke the chains of self delusion some time ago, but you had not come to terms with what you found outside. I'm happy to hear that you have not only discovered the light, but have accepted the light for what it is. This is a feat many will never achieve, for most are so quick to accept their existence for what it is, they fail to take a second look at what existence is.
I hold great respect for the suffering you must have gone through to get to this point, truth is not an easy thing to handle, and is even harder to be at peace with. I'm sure the reward made it all worth while.
"though he should live a hundred years, not seeing the truth sublime; better is the single day's life of one who sees the truth sublime"
-buddha
Edited by mushiepussy (08/17/11 03:57 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I'd bet you broke the chains of self delusion some time ago, but you had not come to terms with what you found outside.
This is correct. It's taken me years to come to terms. Much of it done here at the shroomery.
I hold great respect for the suffering you must have gone through to get to this point,
This is also correct. There has been a lifetime of the most intense, self induced, often unconscious suffering.
Your awareness of this process says a lot about you friend.
I will also say this process for me is not over but instead just at another beginning and I know that. As I said I'm the same guy, same weak Icelander, same scared Icelander, same amazing Icelander. But it's not nearly as serious now. That suffering is just another program, and that's all I see when I see it now. Nothing important in a being that is going to die.
I really enjoyed your response. 
--------------------
"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
Edited by Icelander (08/17/11 07:21 AM)
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circastes
Being too serious
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 5,738
Loc:
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Personally I've never been a fan of how nature operates. Every living thing in mortal competition to stay alive. Everything devouring and excreting it out as waste for more life to grow and do the same in continual cycle. We humans have to take part in this cycle no matter what our beliefs. Even if I don't directly participate in all this due to the way culture supports me, it is still happening on my behalf. My home was once habitat for many other living things that imo are just as important ultimately as me.
But my not liking it does not change that reality.
Think about this, considering how much violence is done by us or for us, suicide might be seen to be an act of love and caring. My position is that it's all up to the individual and his choices are his or her choices and not my business. I have given myself permission to end my existence here if it seems good to me. I first had to disregard the dictates of culture in the form of it's institutions/religions, friends and family. Not an easy thing to do in my case at least. But I consider that an honest decision as an option and could be considered another freedom to be who and what I am.
Ultimately I cannot honestly judge what would be right or wrong. Most of my ideas on right and wrong have been instilled in me by the process of being included in a culture that we now call human. I was programmed to be what I am and think what I think. I find this a difficult concept to accept but have concluded it a truth about my life.
All the beauty, pristine-ness and intelligence from the spider's web to the human mind makes me think the apparently catastrophic decision to make nature function on brutal natural selection is perceived as bad only in the wrong perspective. Maybe there is something mighty about the intelligence possibly behind it all? Joseph Campbell said something like "The hardness of nature is the hardness of God."
--------------------
"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
"There never was any forgetfulness for Self."
-Ramana Maharshi
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lolwut
Tick Tock
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 2,185
Loc: The Lost Woods
Last seen: 19 minutes, 25 seconds
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Personally I can't even conceive of any other way nature could operate other than brutally, with natural selection. It keeps everything in balance. Life is amazing but there is really nothing to say God exists, apart from existence itself, which is inconclusive at best. I look at us as biological machines lost in a wild world, and it makes sense for us to look for a God because that implies a meaning as well as many other things, which we seem to spend a lot of time looking for or trying to rationalise into existence.
I read a quote (cant remember who by) saying that God is the unconscious logical extension of the combined mother and father figures we experienced as children, when we were useless and completely dependent on our parents/carers, when all we knew was our parents arms, food, and excretion. The idea of a God seems to be based off the feeling of ultimate safety, love, and care we experienced, which after you develop critical thinking seems to be naturally lacking in nature, apart from temporary sources such as other people. And of course motivated in part by our old friend Death Anxiety.
God works for a lot of people, but it doesn't seem to be mutually exclusive with positive feelings and emotions. At the moment, I'm suspending belief as to whether or not there is a God.
Quote:
Icelander said:
I'd bet you broke the chains of self delusion some time ago, but you had not come to terms with what you found outside.
This is correct. It's taken me years to come to terms. Much of it done here at the shroomery.
I hold great respect for the suffering you must have gone through to get to this point,
This is also correct. There has been a lifetime of the most intense, self induced, often unconscious suffering.
Your awareness of this process says a lot about you friend.
I will also say this process for me is not over but instead just at another beginning and I know that. As I said I'm the same guy, same weak Icelander, same scared Icelander, same amazing Icelander. But it's not nearly as serious now. That suffering is just another program, and that's all I see when I see it now. Nothing important in a being that is going to die.
I really enjoyed your response.
It's said often here, but suffering can be a great teacher  Do you think there are things you couldn't have fully grokked without going through the suffering and the resultant deep thinking/search for truth? In some cases I think not suffering can be a hindrance to certain trains of thought, because there's simply better things to occupy your mind with in those times, but I'm not sold to whether or not suffering is necessary as a "teacher". It makes sense to try and avoid it either way - enjoy the good times while they are there imo.
--------------------
In old age Diogenes stopped a veteran and asked, “What were you in the last war?”
“Oh, I was only a private,” replied the veteran.
Diogenes rocked as if about to fall. “Ye gods!” he gasped. “At last!” Then after catching his breath he blew out his lantern and went home.
-Osho
Edited by lolwut (08/17/11 09:15 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
circastes said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Personally I've never been a fan of how nature operates. Every living thing in mortal competition to stay alive. Everything devouring and excreting it out as waste for more life to grow and do the same in continual cycle. We humans have to take part in this cycle no matter what our beliefs. Even if I don't directly participate in all this due to the way culture supports me, it is still happening on my behalf. My home was once habitat for many other living things that imo are just as important ultimately as me.
But my not liking it does not change that reality.
Think about this, considering how much violence is done by us or for us, suicide might be seen to be an act of love and caring. My position is that it's all up to the individual and his choices are his or her choices and not my business. I have given myself permission to end my existence here if it seems good to me. I first had to disregard the dictates of culture in the form of it's institutions/religions, friends and family. Not an easy thing to do in my case at least. But I consider that an honest decision as an option and could be considered another freedom to be who and what I am.
Ultimately I cannot honestly judge what would be right or wrong. Most of my ideas on right and wrong have been instilled in me by the process of being included in a culture that we now call human. I was programmed to be what I am and think what I think. I find this a difficult concept to accept but have concluded it a truth about my life.
All the beauty, pristine-ness and intelligence from the spider's web to the human mind makes me think the apparently catastrophic decision to make nature function on brutal natural selection is perceived as bad only in the wrong perspective. Maybe there is something mighty about the intelligence possibly behind it all? Joseph Campbell said something like "The hardness of nature is the hardness of God."
Sure, why not? I try not to see it as good or bad anymore as it eases suffering not to.
Still I do have preferences. I just don't demand they be met.
--------------------
"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: lolwut]
#14936107 - 08/17/11 10:10 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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It would be very hard for me to know if everyone needs to suffer. I do believe everyone does at times however. Had I not suffered I would have had no burning questions that "needed" an answer and so there would have been no quest. Life as it was happening would have been sufficient in itself. It seems that when our human brain developed to a certain point we took on an awareness that caused us to fear. This is death or our impermanence. The fact that we fear is what imo causes us to question life rather than live it fully. Whether this is a purposeful, spiritual situation or a random chance situation is really unimportant imo. It's something that one must face and deal with if we are to have a real chance at enjoying this experience and experiencing the full range of emotional states in this experience. Fear narrows and limits the type of experience we can have here. Love, or trust and surrender open it.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,573
Last seen: 2 days, 16 hours
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Ahh yes the feeling of enlightenment. There is no better feeling than knowing what exactly is going on. Now you must realize that this is just the beginning and it will take even longer to experience ultimate enlightement. My guess, based on what's happened to me is that this feeling you will get used to and in turn will seek even higher states of conscienceness there is no telling how far you can go. Congratulation on the beginning of a new journey, the journey of inner peace.
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Maybe I'm not enlightened. I certainly don't know exactly what's going on.
PM me with the details.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,175
Last seen: 14 hours, 30 minutes
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mushiepussy
Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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Quote:
Cactilove said:
Ahh yes the feeling of enlightenment. There is no better feeling than knowing what exactly is going on. Now you must realize that this is just the beginning and it will take even longer to experience ultimate enlightement. My guess, based on what's happened to me is that this feeling you will get used to and in turn will seek even higher states of conscienceness there is no telling how far you can go. Congratulation on the beginning of a new journey, the journey of inner peace.
Maybe knowing what is going on.. is knowing that you don't know what is going on?
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 1,383
Loc: 5th dimension
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
mushiepussy said:
Maybe knowing what is going on.. is knowing that you don't know what is going on?
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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Quote:
Maybe knowing what is going on.. is knowing that you don't know what is going on?
Its only a first step, no?
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crkhd
☾☼☽
Registered: 12/29/08
Posts: 1,928
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 9 hours, 58 minutes
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But how do you know that you know that you don't know what is going on if you don't know what is going on and knowing that is part of knowing what is going on?
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
<i AM breath rippling through water|light reflecting to self with thought AM i>
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,573
Last seen: 2 days, 16 hours
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It's true the more you find out about this life the more you find out you don't know.
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,175
Last seen: 14 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14939581 - 08/17/11 11:33 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
crkhd said:
But how do you know that you know that you don't know what is going on if you don't know what is going on and knowing that is part of knowing what is going on?
lol
negation is as slippery a slope as assertion.
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mushiepussy
Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Your awareness of this process says a lot about you friend.
I will also say this process for me is not over but instead just at another beginning and I know that. As I said I'm the same guy, same weak Icelander, same scared Icelander, same amazing Icelander. But it's not nearly as serious now. That suffering is just another program, and that's all I see when I see it now. Nothing important in a being that is going to die.
I really enjoyed your response.
Thankyou, all though I know the process will humble me in ways I cannot currently imagine. To be honest, I often wonder if I have the strength to follow this path, and most of the time I have doubt. One of the only things keeping me inching forward is fear, fear of what would become of me if I were to slip into a dim delusion after tasting the light of truth.
Your words are spoken as one who has looked deeply into the reality of transience, and gone to battle with its implications, and I shall take them to heart. Thankyou for the inspiration brutha
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Post with an image
Stranger
Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 60
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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teknix
ÐøøÐ
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 8,119
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I am happy that you finally recognize.
Honestly, I do believe that you could have awaken, but by saying that you are enlightened makes me think otherwise.
Did you see Wong Kiew Kit by any chance?
Have you concluded anything about the spirit or soul per say?
Awaken =/= Enlightened IMO.
Awaken would = 1 where as enlightened would = 10
Anything less than awakened and pondering enlightenment is pretty impossible.
How did you conclude that you are enlightened?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
mushiepussy said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Your awareness of this process says a lot about you friend.
I will also say this process for me is not over but instead just at another beginning and I know that. As I said I'm the same guy, same weak Icelander, same scared Icelander, same amazing Icelander. But it's not nearly as serious now. That suffering is just another program, and that's all I see when I see it now. Nothing important in a being that is going to die.
I really enjoyed your response.
Thankyou, all though I know the process will humble me in ways I cannot currently imagine. To be honest, I often wonder if I have the strength to follow this path, and most of the time I have doubt. One of the only things keeping me inching forward is fear, fear of what would become of me if I were to slip into a dim delusion after tasting the light of truth.
Your words are spoken as one who has looked deeply into the reality of transience, and gone to battle with its implications, and I shall take them to heart. Thankyou for the inspiration brutha
I can't help it, I love to quote don Juan
He said there is nothing wrong with fear, without it we would never learn.
He also said that fear is the first and most formidable enemy of a warrior. It usually knocks out the apprentice fast and sure. Few make it to the second, third and forth enemy.
So I was certainly warned. I just always hoped that somehow I would miraculously overpower fear. Never happened. It has been one hell of a teacher though. I have much less fear now than at any time in my life. It has been a life long struggle for me.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: teknix]
#14941014 - 08/18/11 07:44 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
I am happy that you finally recognize.
Honestly, I do believe that you could have awaken, but by saying that you are enlightened makes me think otherwise.
Did you see Wong Kiew Kit by any chance?
Have you concluded anything about the spirit or soul per say?
Awaken =/= Enlightened IMO.
Awaken would = 1 where as enlightened would = 10
Anything less than awakened and pondering enlightenment is pretty impossible.
How did you conclude that you are enlightened?
Honestly as I said if you read all this, I said enlightened as a whim, almost a joke, I wanted to talk about something and I was hoping to get your attention.
I really don't care if what I'm going through has a term or a name. I don't care if I'm using the correct term for it either. I only care about the process I'm involved in. It's the only thing of importance in my life now.
Maybe it's a joke, maybe I'm a joke, I don't know and I don't care. I feel awake compared to the rest of my life and the feeling is dramatic. What it all means or where it goes maybe you know more about it then me.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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cbub
it
Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 1,140
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
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Quote:
maybe I'm a joke
that sounds enlightened to me
it was this realization for me that cured me of depression, but it really felt like i had nothing to do with it, as if something else is telling me all this.. and it told me a lot
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FishOilTheKid
Abducted
Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 3,162
Last seen: 23 minutes, 54 seconds
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14941112 - 08/18/11 08:55 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
crkhd said:
But how do you know that you know that you don't know what is going on if you don't know what is going on and knowing that is part of knowing what is going on?
You are always aware somewhat directly of 'what is going on.'
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Post with an image
Stranger
Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 60
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: cbub] 1
#14941114 - 08/18/11 08:56 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
maybe I'm a joke
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teknix
ÐøøÐ
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 8,119
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I would be happy to try to correlate some experiences with you!
It is just a subjective interpretation though, maybe you will find some of it to be true.
I had and sometimes still have moments that I am unsure about as well, and It seems like that little bit of insecurity multiplies when trying to understand the experience and to articulate it as well.
It seems likes you have seen through the hold that the ego had on you, this "new" awareness you are experiencing is what I call the true-self, for lack of better terms.
Can you move it around to the energy centers at all?
It is not "fixed" to your brain so to speak. The only way to experience objective love is through that awareness and the heart-center, which leads to heart-mind. This may be jumping ahead a bit . . .
Have you experienced a pineal or upper dan tien activation?
How did you achieve a chi-flow and what was it like?
Have you practiced Micro Cosmic Orbit, or Metta at all?
If you can begin to feel love in the middle dan tien freely, then I personally would begin with that, and eliminating all of those attachements, to achieve the univeral love. Which is valued by the Tibetan Buddist. (only one worth a crap imo :P)
The Upper Dan Tian is like the third eye, depends on what version your reading.
A book I have called Taoist Yoga, Alchemy and Immortality by Charles Luk begins chapter one by explaining "Fixing Spirit in it's original cavity" which I equivocate to kundalini awakening, or third eyes activation, etc. I'm not sure of the claims of Immortality, but the book seems to do a decent job of explaining the internal workings.
There are many paths open to you, many well worn and some less trodden. I don't personally fallow any one, but a sort of mixture + intuition + heart to decide what to do with the info.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: teknix]
#14941147 - 08/18/11 09:12 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Like you I follow my own path and I admit to it's helter skelter nature. It's what I'm capable of and attracted to. I've posted on my Qi Gong practice and the benefits I believe I've gotten. I continue with it and will see where, if anywhere, it leads from here.
The best to you on your path.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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teknix
ÐøøÐ
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 8,119
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Let me be the 1st to admit that I was wrong when I exclaimed you will never feel a chi flow?
My apologies!
I am glad to have been wrong.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: teknix]
#14941188 - 08/18/11 09:30 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I guess you could say that everyone feels energy flow. It's a matter of degree. And awareness. Most of us don't notice the moment to moment fluctuations in our energy systems and also don't notice that we can have some influence there. Many give over all power to the high priests of "medicine" etc, and hardly ever trust our abilities to feel what is going on.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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teknix
ÐøøÐ
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 8,119
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Very insightful, reminds me of the saying that goes something like
"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and feed him for life."
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mushiepussy
Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: teknix]
#14942097 - 08/18/11 02:05 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Do you practice meditation Icelander?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Yes, The Qi Gong is best done as a meditation.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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crkhd
☾☼☽
Registered: 12/29/08
Posts: 1,928
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 9 hours, 58 minutes
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Icelander -
How about "enlightenment" is essentially the physical acceptance of death by the body and hence the permanent cessation of death anxiety? That would explain the feeling of total freedom by enlightened ones. With death no longer attacking your mind from all sides, you lose attachments & desires because those arise from being in a hurry to live.
Quote:
FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:
crkhd said:
But how do you know that you know that you don't know what is going on if you don't know what is going on and knowing that is part of knowing what is going on?
You are always aware somewhat directly of 'what is going on.'
So we have established we know "what is going on". Might not be the full picture, but I'm sure we can settle
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
<i AM breath rippling through water|light reflecting to self with thought AM i>
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: crkhd]
#14943585 - 08/18/11 07:04 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
crkhd said:
Icelander -
How about "enlightenment" is essentially the physical acceptance of death by the body and hence the permanent cessation of death anxiety? That would explain the feeling of total freedom by enlightened ones. With death no longer attacking your mind from all sides, you lose attachments & desires because those arise from being in a hurry to live.
Quote:
FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:
crkhd said:
But how do you know that you know that you don't know what is going on if you don't know what is going on and knowing that is part of knowing what is going on?
You are always aware somewhat directly of 'what is going on.'
So we have established we know "what is going on". Might not be the full picture, but I'm sure we can settle
Well according to Becker and the TMT folk the complete succession of death anxiety is not possible for humans. But if they are wrong and some few individuals are able to accomplish this feat then imo the door would be open, total freedom and enlightenment.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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TeamAmerica
Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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There is a difference between being Elated and being 'Enlightened' (though interestingly enough it sounds like the same word )
Ive heard people say that 'Knowledge' has to do with Enlightenment...No that is the Western idea. 'The Great awakening/ enlightenment' being simply a cultural shift in science and society...And Information stored in the brain could "Bring light" To an ignorance, but again that is not the True 'Buddhist' Enlightenment.
One can become Happy and elated by drinking Wine...But Enlightenment is greater than the Mind. 
Edited by TeamAmerica (08/19/11 11:37 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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I'm not elated. Unless I'm on XTC that is.
Mostly I'm neutral and often contented.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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foliocb
Self-destruction...
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,073
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
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wat
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: foliocb]
#14959753 - 08/22/11 08:26 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Really well stated.
This is the idea behind don Juan's "controlled folly". Same same.
Thanks for digging this up. Makes Burning Man seem all the more revelant. But I knew that.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Cups
technically "here"
Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,924
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Quote:
Icelander said:
This is the idea behind don Juan's "controlled folly". Same same.
So how's that work? He mentioned romantic relationships. At what point in the relationship do you drop the bomb that she is as important as a piece of toast? Maybe keep that one to yourself...
I don't really buy that such a dualistic view of life can work. "It's all meaningless, but I am going to do this anyway...knowing in the back of mind it's a lie"
IMO The only way out of the pit of meaninglessness is to hit the bottom, wallow there as needed, and use your new insight to take full control of you life. To climb out of the pit fists swinging as you decide what is important or not, for you.
In a way it involves becoming your own god figure.
Quote:
There is no possible way to waste time.
Agreed and what a fucking load off.
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No more words of wisdom.
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,708
Last seen: 1 hour, 33 minutes
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Cups]
#14964505 - 08/23/11 09:17 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I'm guessing once some of the fear has subsided of meaninglessness or death w/e then you can start to get a little more open and messy with your personal illusory shit, sort a good portion of it out like that, and embarrass yourself a little on the way . Don't know whether I'd relate that to becoming your own god figure though.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I'm enlightened [Re: Cups]
#14964529 - 08/23/11 09:26 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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So how's that work?
Well first off you are not responsible for informing anyone of what you believe. In romance you are just playing a role, so the controlled folly there is that you are aware you are playing a role and you continue to play that role "as if" you believed it was deadly serious but you know it isn't. Just like those guys in holly wood. They do it for a reason that has nothing to do with the actual part they are playing, right?
Now, would you say that you believe in the ideas of death anxiety? OK then lets say you do. Now isn't the only way you can continue to be in the world and have a functioning experience of value to you is by exercising controlled folly with the things you do? You know now that it's all unimportant ultimately, but you cannot play the game of life if you don't engage. So if you choose to continue in the world of humans, culture, etc you have to play your part. But you know it's just a part. Yet you play it with gusto, "as if" the movie is real. You can let yourself get lost in a movie to a degree so you can enjoy it. You still are aware that you are watching a movie.
and use your new insight to take full control of your life.
This is exactly what controlled folly is. The part about deciding what is going to be "real" or "important" to you is covered by don Juan in the concept of "having to believe".
IMO everything of importance (for living life with gusto) in philosophy and spirituality etc., is covered in the first four books. Pretty amazing when I think about that.
PM me if you want as I'd like to discuss this further with you.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Cups
technically "here"
Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,924
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Quote:
Icelander said:
In romance you are just playing a role, so the controlled folly there is that you are aware you are playing a role and you continue to play that role "as if" you believed it was deadly serious but you know it isn't. Just like those guys in holly wood. They do it for a reason that has nothing to do with the actual part they are playing, right?
...........You know now that it's all unimportant ultim |
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