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 evenbreak
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 should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? 
#14655673 - 06/22/11 07:57 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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so i'm actually a pretty skinny guy, but lately I've put on 25lbs of pure fat that all went to my stomach. I was 130, now I'm 155 and it's ALL in my belly lol.
I've decided I wanted to make my body actually look good and i'd like some advice. At this point, should I be focusing on doing cardio to burn the fat I've gained, or can I just jump straight to a routine/diet that targets muscle gain(which is my goal)?
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ifoundwaldo
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Posts: 8,387
Loc: Denver, CO 
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: evenbreak]
#14655694 - 06/22/11 08:02 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Well, I'd focus on gaining muscle first. Because your initial gains (when you first start hitting the gym) will be much more substantial. Might as well take advantage.
You should alternate between gaining muscle and losing fat in phases though. A couple months at a time or so.
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 mundane
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: ifoundwaldo]
#14656142 - 06/22/11 09:36 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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More muscle burns more fat, so gain it.
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UniversalParadox
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: mundane]
#14656192 - 06/22/11 09:48 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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How tall are you?
I'm 5' 11" and weigh 165 right now, I'm a fat fuck. I'm going back to 150, maybe push for 145-140.
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pmb
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: evenbreak]
#14656427 - 06/22/11 10:36 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Don't even worry about losing fat until you are like 180-200. I would just eat well and focus on putting on muscle.
Losing fat is mostly done by reducing calories, Cardio tends to wear me out so fast I end up eating more than i should for the day so I avoid it when I'm trying to lose fat.
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Seuss
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: evenbreak]
#14658131 - 06/23/11 08:31 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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> Don't even worry about losing fat until you are like 180-200.
Without knowing how tall the guy is, your advise is worthless. Lets assume that he is 175cm (~5' 9"), at 200lbs, that is a BMI of ~29.5 which is very overweight to borderline obese.
> At this point, should I be focusing on doing cardio to burn the fat I've gained, or can I just jump straight to a routine/diet that targets muscle gain(which is my goal)?
I would target both, as they both go hand in hand. Three days of weight training, two days of endurance/cardio training, and two days off mixed in for recovery. Start slow to avoid overuse injury and work up to 1.5hrs on your endurance/cardio days. Don't skip the recovery days, or you will pay with a broken body.
Also, be careful of your diet. Eat healthy and avoid high carb energy drinks (gatorade, etc) and sugary drinks (soda). If you need electrolytes, drink pedialyte instead (for kids, but cheaper than the expensive sports electrolyte replacements, and works just as good).
> Cardio tends to wear me out so fast I end up eating more than i should for the day so I avoid it when I'm trying to lose fat.
You have to train your body to consume fat. Lower the intensity of your cardio workout and extend the length to 1.5 hours. After a few weeks, your body will respond and you will start to burn fat during the last thirty minutes of the workout. Be careful to avoid gatorade like drinks immediately after the work out, as they contain almost as many calories as you burned. A glass of chocolate milk, immediately after the workout, does wonders to help avoid binging throughout the rest of day.
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PDU
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: Seuss]
#14658302 - 06/23/11 09:53 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Most people here would recommend against the long cardio sessions, instead doing some form of HIIT (high intensity interval training.)
Whats your fitness level anyways OP?
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Seuss
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: PDU]
#14658401 - 06/23/11 10:36 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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> Most people here would recommend against the long cardio sessions, instead doing some form of HIIT (high intensity interval training.)
For burning fat (not necessarily losing weight) you have to train your body to shift from burning glycogen to burning fat and the only way to do this is long, low intensity (50% to 70% of max), cardio sessions.
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thodub
Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 754
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: PDU]
#14658407 - 06/23/11 10:39 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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just do both with perhaps a slight focus on cardio.... more muscle means you burn calories faster so if you do both at the same time you will be burning fat very efficiently.
And just because you do a lot of cardio does not mean you can't gain muscle it has a lot to do with how and what you eat as well. Eat a lot of protein to force your body to use fat for fuel instead of your muscles.
Edited by thodub (06/23/11 10:42 AM)
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4896744
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: Seuss]
#14658557 - 06/23/11 11:37 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> Most people here would recommend against the long cardio sessions, instead doing some form of HIIT (high intensity interval training.)
For burning fat (not necessarily losing weight) you have to train your body to shift from burning glycogen to burning fat and the only way to do this is long, low intensity (50% to 70% of max), cardio sessions.
This^
I was talking to a very knowledgeable trainer yesterday about how to get rid of the little fat I have left and he told me to walk on a treadmill with a large incline for 45 minutes a day being sure to bring my elbows above my heart.
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pmb
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: Seuss]
#14659393 - 06/23/11 02:34 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Reducing calories is pretty much the best way to lose fat. You don't have to train your body to lose it. I lose 80 pounds by doing nothing but reducing calories. By finding what you need to maintain your weight and then reducing that by 500 a day you can lose 2 pounds a week easy.
Unless this guy is extremely short he shouldn't even be focusing on losing anything he needs to gain muscle and the best way to focus on gaining muscle is keeping your caloric intake above maintenance while getting enough protein.
If he wants a muscular body which I assume that what he wants because if he loses most of his fat now hes gonna just look skinny and not fit. Assuming hes not below average height.
Focus on consistently training with weights, there are a lot of programs he can check out. I know from my experience trying to lose weight and gain muscle doesn't work. I can do a pretty good job of maintaining my muscle but I won't gain it. Also cardio is great but for me it wears me out to the point I don't feel like weight training or my lifting sessions suffer which if I want my body to stay looking good I need to do.
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Cannashroom
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: Seuss]
#14659459 - 06/23/11 02:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> Most people here would recommend against the long cardio sessions, instead doing some form of HIIT (high intensity interval training.)
For burning fat (not necessarily losing weight) you have to train your body to shift from burning glycogen to burning fat and the only way to do this is long, low intensity (50% to 70% of max), cardio sessions.
Yes and No. I agree you want to move away from using carbs to fat stores, but this is much more easily done switching from eating carb heavy to fat heavy.
As for having to do low intensity training to loose fat, it is a huge crock or shit. Sure in your workout you will burn a higher % of calories from fat, but studies on HIIT have consistently found that HIIT increases the metabolic rate to such an extent that more calories are burned after exercise. Furthermore, all the studies found better changes in body composition from HIIT than long cardio. Its an old myth that needs to be put to rest.
Lastly, It is about the message you send to your body. If you are constantly doing long slow cardio sessions your body is getting the message it needs to keep putting down fat stores because that is what it needs for its exercise. For HIIT on the other hand your body realizes keeping fat for energy is kinda useless because it is only ever burning glycogen.
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"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.
This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.
Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."
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evenbreak
Stranger
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: pmb]
#14661934 - 06/23/11 10:09 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pmb said:
Reducing calories is pretty much the best way to lose fat. You don't have to train your body to lose it. I lose 80 pounds by doing nothing but reducing calories. By finding what you need to maintain your weight and then reducing that by 500 a day you can lose 2 pounds a week easy.
Unless this guy is extremely short he shouldn't even be focusing on losing anything he needs to gain muscle and the best way to focus on gaining muscle is keeping your caloric intake above maintenance while getting enough protein.
If he wants a muscular body which I assume that what he wants because if he loses most of his fat now hes gonna just look skinny and not fit. Assuming hes not below average height.
Focus on consistently training with weights, there are a lot of programs he can check out. I know from my experience trying to lose weight and gain muscle doesn't work. I can do a pretty good job of maintaining my muscle but I won't gain it. Also cardio is great but for me it wears me out to the point I don't feel like weight training or my lifting sessions suffer which if I want my body to stay looking good I need to do.
I figured if I do cardio to lose the fat, maybe I'll at least get a little bulkier/toned in the process so it's not a total loss. What you said makes sense though.
I'm 5"10 btw.
you mentioned a lot of weight training programs. Is there anything I can do with just 2 20lb dumbbells and 1 80lb barbell? I can switch around the weights to add 20 more lbs to the dumbbell and 40 more lb to the barbell. I also have a pullup bar.
I've just been doing squats and bench presses on the floor, and then some curls and weighted crunches. I would keep doing this with about 10 reps each until I get exhausted. Does this sound like a decent routine if I keep up with it every other day?
Edited by evenbreak (06/23/11 10:10 PM)
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4896744
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: evenbreak]
#14661975 - 06/23/11 10:17 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
evenbreak said:
Quote:
pmb said:
Reducing calories is pretty much the best way to lose fat. You don't have to train your body to lose it. I lose 80 pounds by doing nothing but reducing calories. By finding what you need to maintain your weight and then reducing that by 500 a day you can lose 2 pounds a week easy.
Unless this guy is extremely short he shouldn't even be focusing on losing anything he needs to gain muscle and the best way to focus on gaining muscle is keeping your caloric intake above maintenance while getting enough protein.
If he wants a muscular body which I assume that what he wants because if he loses most of his fat now hes gonna just look skinny and not fit. Assuming hes not below average height.
Focus on consistently training with weights, there are a lot of programs he can check out. I know from my experience trying to lose weight and gain muscle doesn't work. I can do a pretty good job of maintaining my muscle but I won't gain it. Also cardio is great but for me it wears me out to the point I don't feel like weight training or my lifting sessions suffer which if I want my body to stay looking good I need to do.
I figured if I do cardio to lose the fat, maybe I'll at least get a little bulkier/toned in the process so it's not a total loss. What you said makes sense though.
I'm 5"10 btw.
you mentioned a lot of weight training programs. Is there anything I can do with just 2 20lb dumbbells and 1 80lb barbell? I can switch around the weights to add 20 more lbs to the dumbbell and 40 more lb to the barbell. I also have a pullup bar.
I've just been doing squats and bench presses on the floor, and then some curls and weighted crunches. I would keep doing this with about 10 reps each until I get exhausted. Does this sound like a decent routine if I keep up with it every other day?
I would add in some shoulder press and front raises.
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Live your Life!
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pmb
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: 4896744]
#14662081 - 06/23/11 10:35 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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There is a routine called "starting strength" which is good for people who have never seriously lifted weights before. It's good for all around strength and mass building.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: pmb]
#14663852 - 06/24/11 06:27 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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> more muscle means you burn calories faster so if you do both at the same time you will be burning fat very efficiently.
You are making a few mistakes. Different types of training target different aspects of physiology. There are also different sources of energy (calories) for the body to consume. Again, different types of training target these different sources of energy.
High intensity training leads to anaerobic energy consumption where you burn glycogen stored in the liver and muscle rather than fat. Unfortunately, the body does not contain a lot of glycogen, only around 2000 kcal, and once it is gone, you crater. There are benefits to high intensity training, such as increasing your lactate threshold, and high intensity training should always be part of your training schedule.
To burn fat, you have to have plenty of oxygen, thus your exercise has to be aerobic (which means you are at 50% to 70% of maximum exertion). To burn fat you also have to do long workouts (more than an hour) so that your body has time to switch from burning glycogen to burning fat. As you do this type of exercise, your body will adapt to burning fat quicker.
> I agree you want to move away from using carbs to fat stores, but this is much more easily done switching from eating carb heavy to fat heavy.
The energy stores used during exercise have little to nothing to do with what you eat while not exercising. You can be on a 100% fat diet, exercise at 90% of your maximum for 10 minutes, and not burn a single calorie of fat.
> As for having to do low intensity training to loose fat, it is a huge crock or shit. Sure in your workout you will burn a higher % of calories from fat, but studies on HIIT have consistently found that HIIT increases the metabolic rate to such an extent that more calories are burned after exercise.
Calories do not have to come from fat. Again, you can have a metabolic rate of superman and not burn a single calorie of fat. Laying around after exercise, even with a great metabolic rate, isn't going to burn many calories (you will actually gain calories as your awesome metabolism replenishes the glycogen stores in your muscles and liver). It takes a lot of work to burn a calorie... I only burn 120 of them per mile that I run... thus when I run a marathon, I only burn off a pound of calories, and most of those come from glycogen stores which will return as soon as I eat and rest.
My background is from training for triathlons and marathons. When you are training for a race that will last you twelve hours and will consume over 15000 calories, you had better know how the body processes energy. I have spend hundreds of hours talking to a friend that teaches physiology (he has an md and phd) on this subject. I have also spent a lot of time reading medical journals and talking with professional coaches and trainers. I can't tell you much of anything about weight training, but I have a very strong grasp on energy production and consumption of the body while exercising.
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thodub
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: Seuss]
#14663921 - 06/24/11 07:12 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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You make a lot a good points but I think your mistaken that having a high metabolic rate (from muscle) is not important. In the long run you will lose more fat than someone that does not do weight training which is why its important to do both. Also, someone who does the same cardio exercises but has more muscle will burn more calories and thus more fat it's as simple as that. Cardio can burn fat effectively of course but it would be wise to use your exercise time more efficiently.
Also, energy stores used during exercise are very important because you do not want you body using muscle to fuel your cardio workouts thus it's important to have a lot of protein in your diet. Studies have shown that your body has to work harder to break down protein when you exercise meaning more calories being burned.
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dummy
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: thodub]
#14676998 - 06/26/11 10:57 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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i'm not personal trainer or anything. but i'd say do both. go running in the morning and hit the gym after you're rested. i've lost a lot of weight via cardio; riding my bike and running. good luck!
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Champion des Champignons
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: UniversalParadox]
#14677967 - 06/27/11 02:11 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
UniversalParadox said:I'm 5' 11" and weigh 165 right now, I'm a fat fuck. I'm going back to 150, maybe push for 145-140.
weight is not a measurement of fatness, it's a measurement of how much you weigh.
put on some muscle, and you will lose some fat, even if you don't lose any weight.
when I started lifting, I went from a 188lbs fattie to 190lbs, reasonably muscular and reasonably lean.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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> weight is not a measurement of fatness, it's a measurement of how much you weigh.
Absolutely correct. In the same light, calories at not a measure of fat burned. You can burn thousands of calories and not a single microgram of fat.
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don_vedo
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: Seuss]
#14681043 - 06/27/11 06:25 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Study up on proper posture and technique before hitting the gym, this is the absolute first thing you should do and the best. Stick to learning compound movements; focusing on your back, your legs, and your hips first and foremost. Worry about your frontal upper body last. Lift heavy, lift with proper form. Eat right, make sure you study up on proper post workout meals. Don't be fooled by supplements, get your calories from whole foods, don't waste your money on "get big fast" or "burn fat fast" pills.
Lifting will burn the most calories, like others have said more muscle mass helps to burn fat faster. Train for endurance on rest days from lifting; this will keep you in shape and help conitunue to burn fat.
EAT, SLEEP, TRAIN. Have a good time doing all three and everything else you partake in in life. These are some things I wish someone would have told me when I was younger.
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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XUL
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: evenbreak]
#14685054 - 06/28/11 10:41 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
evenbreak said:
so i'm actually a pretty skinny guy, but lately I've put on 25lbs of pure fat that all went to my stomach. I was 130, now I'm 155 and it's ALL in my belly lol.
I've decided I wanted to make my body actually look good and i'd like some advice. At this point, should I be focusing on doing cardio to burn the fat I've gained, or can I just jump straight to a routine/diet that targets muscle gain(which is my goal)?
I would suggest focusing on gaining muscle first. Once you gain some mass your belly might look smaller in proportion to your body. Plus you might just lose it along the way. I have before.
The secret to gaining true mass and strength is in certain movements. Squats, Deadlift, and Cleans. Clean and Jerk if you can handle it. These movements will stimulate your core and you will truly pack on the weight.
After you gain your mass then you should do conditioning. I would suggest Crossfit or Alwynn Cosgroves fatloss programs. Both of them are feindish and intense but they get the fat off. I just recently discovered crossfit and used it for my fatloss program. My belly seemed to melt off in two weeks. It is essentially strength and conditioning through body weight exercises, olympic lifts, and kettlebells.
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don_vedo
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: XUL]
#14685833 - 06/28/11 01:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said:
kettlebells.
I used to lift a lot, participated in my fair share of BBing competitions even won a few. Now a days all I do is kb work; if you want to harden up and lose weigt quickly the kb is where it's at. It offers plenty of movements that work the whole body, not to mention provide functional strength. Definitely some good advie there XUL.
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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XUL
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: don_vedo]
#14686585 - 06/28/11 04:13 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
don_vedo said:
Quote:
XUL said:
kettlebells.
I used to lift a lot, participated in my fair share of BBing competitions even won a few. Now a days all I do is kb work; if you want to harden up and lose weigt quickly the kb is where it's at. It offers plenty of movements that work the whole body, not to mention provide functional strength. Definitely some good advie there XUL.
Lah'Kesh
functional strength. That is well put. Lifts that provide a functional strength are the most important. Especially if your fitness correlates with your daily activities.
Don_Vedo,
Tell me about these body building competitions. Did you win in any core movements? Which lifts did you win?
Was it a bodybuilding competition or weightlifting competetion?
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
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Re: should i focus on losing fat or gaining muscle? [Re: XUL]
#14686932 - 06/28/11 05:15 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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They were bodybuilding competitions, no weight lifting required  by the time I got on stge I wouldn't have been able to lift a weight de to the fact that I would go into the comp comletely depleted sitting at about 4% bodyfat with little to no water in my system.
The competitions definitely trying on your body and mind. The last couple weeks when diet has to be really dialed down are super intense and the eating very very bland. I enjoyed it while I did it but wouldn't do it again. Thanks for your interest XUL, uch appreciated brother!
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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