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 JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
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 U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD 
#14610822 - 06/14/11 10:23 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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"Expansion of consciousness is nothing, but you give so much importance to that. Drugs will make it a lot easier than all these meditations and yogas. I know lots of people who have taken LSD. (Please don't misunderstand me -- I am not advocating it.) You are in the presence of a huge mountain. Suddenly the consciousness expands to the size of the mountain, literally. There is a sudden blow-up of consciousness, and this sudden expansion releases tremendous energy there inside of you. What is the effect of that on the physical body? The physical body responds to what you call the 'sudden expansion of consciousness'. The only way the physical body can respond to that sudden expansion of consciousness is by taking a sudden breath -- suddenly you take a breath, and the whole breathing pattern changes -- so that is why you have that expression 'a breath-taking view'. I went to the Elephanta caves (near Bombay). They have this trimurti (religious sculpture) there -- a huge thing, you know -- and I was standing before it. Suddenly there was an expansion of my consciousness (or whatever you want to call it) to the size of that. You experience such things all the time. There is nothing to these experiences.
None of these experiences means anything, whether you are 'this side' or 'that side'. Actually there is no 'this side' or 'that side', because there is no line of demarcation here. The realization dawns on you that those experiences, however profound they may be, aren't worth anything, that's all. You may be in a blissful state -- even after that 'calamity' you have blissful states, ecstatic states, a sudden melting away of everything that is there -- it doesn't mean anything. You experience, I experience -- what is the difference? In India holy people experience some petty little thing called a 'blissful state' or the 'absence of body consciousness' and they think something marvelous is happening. All those things are limitations, they are limiting consciousness, they are not in any way helping; but to you probably they are of great interest, because man is functioning all the time in that limited consciousness.
You start with the assumption that LSD is something terrible. Why, I wonder? I'm not supporting or recommending it. Drugs only produce experiences, and what I am talking about is not an experience. But all the young people in the West have tried it -- little girls and boys, everybody -- that is why they are suddenly interested in this kind of stuff, the Indian stuff; not because they are dissatisfied with their wealth or their values. They have tried LSD, and it has given them some kind of a feeling that there must be something more to consciousness. But they are ordinary experiences.
All those religious experiences are no different from the experiences people have when they take drugs. I know a boy who had never heard of the Tibetan literature, but when he was 'on a trip' (as they put it), he experienced all kinds of mandalas (mystical designs). He started talking about them, and he met one Tibetan chap who described them to him. How is that kind of thing possible? You don't have to be in Tibet; no matter where you are, you see, all that is part of consciousness. Even Donald Duck has become part of the human consciousness."
Taken from the 4th section from this site: http://www.well.com/user/jct/mystiq.htm
I suggest reading this guy's stuff...although he would say you shouldn't...I'm finding his stuff to be some of the most legit I've ever read.
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  If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 1 year, 1 day
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UG Krishnamurti seems to be the natural stopping place when you run out of road on your spiritual quest, and recognize that you've basically just been stroking your own dick for the past X years of spiritual practice. "I want cosmic consciousness" is the same thing as "I want to fuck her" or "I want to win the lottery." Desire based on sense gratification based on preconceived notions of what is "good" and what is "bad." It's all mind games. There is nothing to attain. There is no purpose. There is no goal. The mind creates purpose, the mind creates goals. The intestines create feces. The wheel keeps turning, it doesn't stop, it's simple.
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 c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,027
Loc: NY
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So does he think any state of being is worth striving to attain? I agree that experiences can become distractions, but they also keep us searching.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14611805 - 06/14/11 02:17 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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This is only my interpretation, but I would assume that UG believed both "searching" and "attainment" to be bullshit. Existence is perpetually in its natural state. This includes variations in experience. That is all.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,027
Loc: NY
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: laserpig]
#14611838 - 06/14/11 02:24 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Yea, I've definitely came to the conclusion there is no where to go, but I still strive to grow.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14611877 - 06/14/11 02:32 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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It seems to me we basically have two options: keep ourselves entertained to the best of our ability in the limited time before we die ... or don't, and die anyway. Personal growth is one way to keep things entertaining.
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JackofSpades
Peace
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: laserpig]
#14611925 - 06/14/11 02:41 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said:
UG Krishnamurti seems to be the natural stopping place when you run out of road on your spiritual quest, and recognize that you've basically just been stroking your own dick for the past X years of spiritual practice. "I want cosmic consciousness" is the same thing as "I want to fuck her" or "I want to win the lottery." Desire based on sense gratification based on preconceived notions of what is "good" and what is "bad." It's all mind games. There is nothing to attain. There is no purpose. There is no goal. The mind creates purpose, the mind creates goals. The intestines create feces. The wheel keeps turning, it doesn't stop, it's simple.
yes and I'm starting to really dig this message of disillusionment--especially because I'm over here in south asia where all this stuff got started and can see how full of shit a lot of it is. However, it is this disillusionment and hitting rock bottom that leads to surrender, which keeps you in the natural state (UG's word for enlightenment)...The only problem is there is nothing you can do to get there. It just has to happen.
Someone on this forum said something like trying to become enlightened is like trying to become old. So give the fuck up because there isn't anything you can do...but as UG points out, b.c. of how some of us are programmed, we will still keep trying...
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
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Quote:
JackofSpades said: So give the fuck up because there isn't anything you can do...but as UG points out, b.c. of how some of us are programmed, we will still keep trying...
 Ain't that the truth.
And then there's all of us who keep trying to stop trying.
Life is hilarious, but quite often the joke is at our expense. 
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
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I don't agree with him on this, as he stated he hasn't actually tried them and IME psychedelics (particularly salvia) have the ability to trample your hopes and dreams way more thoroughly than UG or anything else can.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,027
Loc: NY
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: Grapefruit]
#14612005 - 06/14/11 02:56 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Eh, I'm not sure I buy it. There may not be anywhere to go, but you can still change your state of being. I've done this to some degree. By saying one should "stop trying" are you discounting any spiritual practice, or that one should not be seeking anything during practice? To me people use the "stop trying" idea as a cop out to fall back into self-destructive patterns, i.e, patterns that leave you identifying with your sad life story as opposed to something more expansive.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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JackofSpades
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: Grapefruit]
#14612042 - 06/14/11 03:01 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
I don't agree with him on this, as he stated he hasn't actually tried them and IME psychedelics (particularly salvia) have the ability to trample your hopes and dreams way more thoroughly than UG or anything else can.
What don't you agree with? I also don't understand how salvia being more dream trampling than UG is relevant? 
and to Cosm0nautt, I agree with what you're saying. It doesn't make sense to just fall back into the same patterns before one started pursing enlightenment. I have personally found that spiritual practice (meditation, mindfulness, compassion, patience and such) has led me to be happier and more at peace--much more so than usual.
I think UG is just saying that stuff won't make you enlightened and to see it as a path to enlightenment is worthless but as a path to being less in hell, maybe it has value.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
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Last seen: 1 year, 1 day
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
I think UG is just saying that stuff won't make you enlightened and to see it as a path to enlightenment is worthless but as a path to being less in hell, maybe it has value.
Sounds exactly right to me.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,027
Loc: NY
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
I think UG is just saying that stuff won't make you enlightened and to see it as a path to enlightenment is worthless but as a path to being less in hell, maybe it has value.
Well in that case I won't stop trying to be less in hell. It's funny, I see where UG is coming from too. Words suck, too limiting.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
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Last seen: 3 hours, 6 minutes
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Well he admits himself that what got him off the "merry go round" as he calls it was disillusionment. So in that context psychedelics are useful for disillusionment and getting off the merry go round whereas he is saying they are not. I do get what he's trying to say though, constantly looking for pleasure experiences is silly but that's one of the things psychedelics can teach you.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,027
Loc: NY
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: Grapefruit]
#14612104 - 06/14/11 03:11 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Yea, it seems like he was talking in generality to the majority of psychedelic users.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,685
Last seen: 3 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14612156 - 06/14/11 03:18 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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I like UG a lot and I think he's often purposefully a little over the top to illustrate a point. Essentially he is saying the same thing as a lot of other spiritual teachers he's just much more precise and scientific in the way he describes phenomena and likes to get people to really question their beliefs.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,860
Loc: underbelly
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: laserpig]
#14612429 - 06/14/11 04:08 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said:
It seems to me we basically have two options: keep ourselves entertained to the best of our ability in the limited time before we die ... or don't, and die anyway. Personal growth is one way to keep things entertaining.
Yeah baby Becker would agree.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,027
Loc: NY
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: Icelander]
#14612646 - 06/14/11 04:54 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Becker is your Guru. 
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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The Whale
Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: 
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: laserpig]
#14612795 - 06/14/11 05:31 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said:
UG Krishnamurti seems to be the natural stopping place when you run out of road on your spiritual quest, and recognize that you've basically just been stroking your own dick for the past X years of spiritual practice. "I want cosmic consciousness" is the same thing as "I want to fuck her" or "I want to win the lottery." Desire based on sense gratification based on preconceived notions of what is "good" and what is "bad." It's all mind games. There is nothing to attain. There is no purpose. There is no goal. The mind creates purpose, the mind creates goals. The intestines create feces. The wheel keeps turning, it doesn't stop, it's simple.
I want to give you a hand job.
+1 karma points for you, Daniel Son. 
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jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: U.G. Krishnamurti on LSD [Re: The Whale]
#14612838 - 06/14/11 05:40 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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LOL
leave laserpigs penis aloooneeee !
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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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