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OfflinePrimal Call
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Registered: 09/05/10
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Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting * 66
    #14508610 - 05/25/11 06:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hello Shroomery! :sunny::hi:

I often read of questions from growers trying to troubleshoot a particular problem specific to their grow with no luck from the search function, so I thought I’d write a post encompassing some of the common fruiting dilemmas and their respective solutions. :bliss:

For starters, my personal approach to fruiting timing/conditions with many :thanx: to all of you who knowingly and unknowingly became my mentors and gurus in establishing my relationship with these wonderful organisms. After that, we'll get into specific cause and effect troubleshooting.
Here we go!  :chase:

- When should we initiate fruiting? :popcorn:

The best approach I can recommend is patience and visual confirmation. That is to say we wait until the substrate tells us when to give it fresh air exchange (FAE) by revealing knots, primorida, and/or pins. This picture shows all three.

The knots are the tiny pearl-like orbs, the primordia are the earliest recognizable mushroom-like growths beginning to form stems and caps, and the pins are...the pins! :laugh2:
 
It's not as "cut and dry" as waiting some predetermined amount of time IMO. 10-14 days is assuredly a good guideline, but sometimes life happens faster or slower than we desire. I think we can all relate to this concept and so can the mushies! :amanita2: :hug:

Also, if we initiate fruiting when we think it "should" be ready, it will laugh at us (:hehehe: listen carefully) while it finishes consolidating the substrate as we begin wondering if it's ever going to pin. :confused2: So, ultimately, we end up waiting the same amount of time for it to do its thing.

Furthermore, I've noticed that the longer I leave a consolidating substrate in colonization conditions with the slightest amount of FAE, the more knots/primordia develop, which leads to (ideally) an even and expansive pinset. This was most spectacularly accomplished with a recent project where for the entire duration of colonization and consolidation (Check this out too!) (15 days total) the tub had all holes taped except two, which were stuffed as tightly as possible with polyfill. After 3 days of fruiting conditions, it looked like this...
which turned into this...

And at 5 days of fruiting conditions :sparta:

Here is the full grow log for those photos.

The factors affecting our colonization time include, but are not limited to, spawn ratio and health, ambient temperatures, GE/FAE, substrate ingredients, moisture content, and light. So maybe it will take 8 days and maybe it will take 20 days, but when the substrate is ready, we will know if we just watch & listen to it. Otherwise, leave it in :peace:!

- Fruiting Conditions and Pinning Strategy :wizard:

Light can and should be applied during all stages of growth. We want to use a 12/12 cycle of indirect, ambient light during the spawn and substrate colonization/consolidation periods and the same cycle but with direct 6500(K)elvin (blue/"daylight" spectrum) CFL bulbs during pinning & fruiting. (Here are some posts explaining this in greater detail.) Some users like LED's, but I have no experience with them.
The idea here is that we are using or imitating the natural light cycles of our beautiful planet. :earth: Also, try to keep the light directly above the fruiting chamber because of photosensitivity; they will grow toward the light! :mushroomgrow: (Air currents also play a part.)

Assuming you are fruiting a fully colonized/consolidated substrate, FAE, humidity, and evaporation from the substrate are the primary components involved in pinning/fruiting. How much you say? :confused:
These pinning triggers are all interconnected! :yinyang:

Many cultivators try to pick these components apart and say that one is more important than another, but this is simply insensible in my opinion. The moisture in the substrate is drawn out by the FAE, which creates the evaporation necessary and contributes to maintaining the humidity in the fruiting chamber while mimicking that tropical environment of origin. Kinda like a kinky love triangle, eh?! :3some: :lmafo:
As cronicr points out here, the surface humidity is the most important, but keeping it humid in an FC is also helpful.

Thus, get the FAE as high as possible, without sacrificing humidity (95+ for knot formation), until a desirable or maximum pinset is covering the substrate. Once the primorida/pins start looking more like maturing mushrooms with distinguishable stems & caps, it's acceptable to let the humidity drop a bit in favor of more FAE for the remaining duration of maturation. (Covered in more detail below, try lowering your temperature around this time as well! :grin:)

Personally, I try not to mist until the actual pins are formed as even something as soft as water drops can damage our little, fragile primordia. (Do not mist Pans!) After small pins form, however, I mist as much as I can (without creating pools of water on the substrate surface) to replenish the moisture going into fruitbody formation and keep a good humidity level in the chamber. (Proper Moisture - LotKid)The only difficulty here is in the act of balancing all these parts, which leads us to the troubleshooting section! :moogle:


edit: For some dunking/re-hydrating information after 1st flush harvests, go to page 5. :smile::bliss:

- Troubleshoot the fruit!  :cuddles:  Effect! Cause! Solution!

While the effects and solutions are of greater concern with regard to troubleshooting, I would truly appreciate confirmation/correction about the causes since I do not know the complete science involved. **Consider my "causes" educated guesses.**
In no particular order...

1.
Effect: "Fuzzy-feet" or fluffy stems happen when the mycelium seems to crawl up and surround the lower portions of the mushroom and even sometimes up to 50-60% of the stipe. It's not widely considered aesthetically pleasing, and it's one more thing to clean up after harvest. It won't harm you to eat it, but the chemical content is comparatively low.
Cause: (Edited per RR's chime in.) Stagnant or still air in the fruiting chamber is our culprit here.
Solution: More FAE is the easy fix. :thumbup:

2.
Effect: Prematurely opening or small caps and/or small mushrooms in general.
Cause: It is possible that with MS projects genetics have opted for small fruits, but more often this is a result of insufficient lighting or improper moisture content. I write improper because too much and too little water can dwarf our fruits. However, if we have too much water in the substrate, the mushrooms should look excessively glossy/slimy on the caps. Usually, though, too much water results in anaerobic contamination before we see a flush. For those of you who attribute a short substrate depth to small mushrooms, here's one for you. :tongue2:

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
The reason deeper substrates support larger flushes and fruits is because larger substrates hold more moisture.  If you give proper moisture control to small substrates, they will perform well too. 
RR




Solution: Check the light cycle and bulb rating. Be sure to have as close to 6500K as possible (mine is 5500K and it's fine) and perhaps buy a timer set to 10-14 hours on/14-10 hours off. If the moisture is low on the first flush, adjust your substrate recipe to include a bit more until you get it right (field capacity). You can buy a moisture gauge if you want, but with some experience you can measure appropriate moisture fairly accurately using the "squeeze test." (I do not own a moisture gauge.) For those projects where the moisture is low for the first flush and for those where it's perfect, a dunk for 6-24 hours will make for a better second flush.

3. Borrowing a picture here with thanks :smile:
Quote:

btb103 said:




Effect: Yellowing, blueing, or "bruising" substrate.
Cause: Stress! :bomb: This is caused by too much FAE and subsequent drying of the substrate, contaminates in the substrate, dropping your humidity gauge on your friends :uhoh:, direct/close proximity misting, or anything else you can imagine straining the substrate, which is pretty fragile (especially primordia.)
Solution: Take it easy!  :cool:  I would say the most common cause of this one is the excess FAE, so adjust that accordingly when you begin to see blue bruising, yellowing, etc. Don't try to reverse the drying out effect with extra misting. This often leads to a dense mat of mycelium on the surface discouraging primorida/pins from forming.

4. Borrowing again :grin:
Quote:

ChronicBarry said:
I believe the strain is Mazatapec.



Effect: Tall & skinny mushrooms.
Cause: This one is primarily attributed to excess CO2 levels at the substrate level. In an attempt to escape the suffocating circumstances, the mushrooms put most of their energy into growing taller looking for room to breathe. However, lacking light can also cause this one.
Solution: More FAE to displace the suffocating conditions and/or check your light cycle/rating.

5.
Effect: Hollow stems.
Cause: While cubensis is mostly considered a hollow-stemmed species and some varieties are more hollow than others, this "problem" can be attributed, at least partially, to high temperatures in the fruiting chamber.
Solution: Lower the temperatures in the fruiting chamber and surrounding area, and you will encourage thicker, dense stems to form. As a reminder, colder temperatures will also slow down the rate at which the mushrooms develop. But patience is good, remember?! :strokebeard2: Also, keep in mind that the substrate produces heat via thermogenesi, so it will always be a little warmer than the space above the substrate and outside the fruiting chamber. :dancer:

6. I don't have any cube pics for this one, but it doesn't matter.

Effect: Cracked caps.
Cause: Usually this is a sign of humidity levels below the desired parameters.
Solution: For monotubs, mist the walls of the fruiting chamber slightly more often, tighten your polyfill, or decrease FAE by a little if you are using a draft or fan. For SGFC users, you'll want to check the moisture of your perlite and re-moisten it, or add more as needed.
Here's a post showing the difference between cracked caps (shown above) and split caps, which is caused by rapid growth.
Solution: Try lowering your fruiting chamber temperature to slow them down.

7.Effect: Contamination :shakingfist::oldman2:
Cause: A wide variety of sources may be at the heart of this one. It could be that our spawn was holding potentially unseen contaminates, say, a minor bacterial infection. If the mycelium has to fight bacteria while trying to colonize, it will exact energy to these multiple tasks. As a result, the rate of colonization is slowed and/or the mycelium is weakened, similar to us when we have a cold or flu. Contamination of the substrate could also be related to the spawn ratio used in the sense that if the ratio is low, it will take longer to colonize the substrate thus increasing the amount of time for ever-present contaminates to develop a hold on the nutrients.
Solution: There are some broad-reaching tactics that can significantly reduce contamination rates of spawn such as cleaning surfaces and air prior to inoculating, flame sterilizing between inoculations/transfers or creating lids with proper filters and injection ports, etc. Collectively, these skills are referred to as sterile technique/procedure and are of utmost importance when considering contamination and its source. Good sterile technique coupled with a laminar flowhood (LFH), glove box, or still-air box is the ideal.
As far as contamination in a substrate, I can attest that a properly pasteurized substrate mixed with healthy spawn has a very low likelihood of contaminating. And no, I won't let you blame it on the coffee. :evil2: The best thing to do is be as clean as possible with your hands, breathing, tools, and the surrounding area/air when you spawn your tubs/cakes. Close windows, cough/sneeze into your sleeve, don't play with your dog then use your bare hands to mix spawn and substrate, and make it quick! If you take your sweet time to mix your projects together, you hypothetically increase the amount of mold spores falling into your tubs. However, a cleaning routine need not be as vigorous for spawning compared to inoculating.

In an attempt to give more contaminate-specific information, I'm adding photos and as much information as possible and/or necessary in future updates. Stay tuned!
:otd:

Hidden Contams - Mad Season <--- Really, start there :awesome: Then if you still feel like reading, proceed.
Here's another awesome one from Munchauzen.

Bacillus

I've struggled with this contaminate more than any other. I often thought I had clean spawn only to proudly post pictures (like the ones above) and have more experienced growers tell me my jars were bacterial.
Also known as wetspot, this one shows on the bottom left and bottom right of the jar on the left. The moisture has a particular glistening to it, hence the common name, and it is usually on or around grains rather than on the jar/bag itself. It looks strikingly similar to humidity for those unfamiliar with it. (The top of the jar on the left is humidity.)
After playing with filters, lids, sterilization techniques (in the PC and the inoculation room), I figured out I was simply over-hydrating my grains. There are plenty of grain preparation teks out there, but I've finally got my method down, and I've not had Bacillus since. I'm not saying you can't get wetspot for other reasons, but cutting back my cook time solved it for me. If in doubt about your grain moisture, soak and/or cook for less time.
I've spawned plenty of jars with minor Bacillus infections into properly pasteurized substrates and gotten anywhere from 1-3 flushes. The safe recommendation is, of course, not to spawn them at all, but if you are willing to risk it, my personal recommendation is to only flush once or twice.

Trichoderma :mad2:


Cobweb


Yeasts

Usually yeast shows as white dots, but these pink ones are the only thing similar I've ever confronted. This is the only yeast (or similar?) I've ever seen for that matter. I spawned these with no problems, and you can see the log including photos of the mycelium eating through/around the yeasts here. I think if the dots were covering more grains, I'd have tossed them. And, again, the safest recommendation is to get rid of any jars with contaminants rather than spawning them.

I think I've covered enough for now. This came out to be quite lengthy!
I hope it is helpful for some of you and please critique, rate, and correct as necessary! I'll update this OP with anything else I might be forgetting because of sleep deprivation or with anything of importance someone adds as this receives some more attention.

Good luck to any of you troubleshooting, and, as always, I wish all of you well!     
:hi5:    :mushdance:    :shoppingcart:      :respect:    :kenthumbup:

:peace::peace::peace::plur::peace::peace::peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

Edited by Primal Call (12/17/17 03:39 PM)

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Invisibleshroomiin
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14508668 - 05/25/11 07:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

awesome post man. I am currently waiting on a tub. It's been colonizing for about 7 or 8 days now, and the surface has "looked" 100% for about 3 or 4 days now.

It has knots and primidora forming, but upon looking at the bottom of the tub, it doesnt seem 100% but i could be wrong. (i left the sides uncovered, i plan on taping it.)

how long would you wait?

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: shroomiin] * 3
    #14508679 - 05/25/11 07:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hey thanks! :smile:

You're saying you got to a 100% fully white surface in 3 or 4 days? High spawn ratio? Small project? I see you mentioned the bottom might(?) not be done...

Most consider the appropriate consolidation time 3-7 days after 100% colonization. But like I mentioned above, when you see massive amounts of knots, primordia, or actual pins popping up, it's ready.

At the longest guideline, I would say 20-25 days after your spawn date. If you don't see some form of fruit coming up, something is probably wrong.


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

Edited by Primal Call (05/26/11 01:28 AM)

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Invisibleshroomiin
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Registered: 12/24/07
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14508685 - 05/25/11 07:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ryath said:
hey thanks! :smile:

You're saying you got to a 100% fully white surface in 3 or 4 days? High spawn ratio? Small project? I see you mentioned the bottom might(?) not be done...

Most consider the appropriate consolidation time 3-7 days after 100% colonization. But like I mentioned above, when you see massive amounts of knots, primordia, or pins, it's ready.

At the longest guideline, I would say 20-25 days after your spawn date. If you don't see some form of fruit coming up, something is probably wrong.




Its 5 qt spawn to 1 brick coir. This has been the most vigerous strain i have ever worked with. It's been super speedy the whole time. it's only been 9 days since spawn, but it has definitely appeared to be 100% for 3 or 4 days now. If the bottom and sides were covered you wouldnt be able to see the brown sub on the bottom of the tub lol. I don't know. no pins, but definitely some knotting and primidora.

I might leave it in one more day.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: shroomiin] * 3
    #14508700 - 05/25/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Effect: "Fuzzy-feet" or fluffy stems happen when the mycelium seems to crawl up and surround the lower portions of the mushroom and even sometimes up to 50-60% of the stipe. It's not widely considered aesthetically pleasing, and it's one more thing to clean up after harvest. It won't harm you to eat it, but the chemical content is comparatively low.
Cause: The most common reason cited for this is excess humidity in the fruiting chamber. Why the elevated humidity makes this happen, I do not know. I would think it would be excess CO2 levels "tricking" the mycelium to start looking for food (think high CO2 during colonization), but since there is none left in the substrate, it goes up the mushrooms' stems.
Solution: If it's high humidity or gas levels, more FAE is the easy fix. :thumbup:




Still, stale air is the cause of fuzz on the stems.  It's not high CO2, or excess humidity, but you're correct that more fresh air is the cure.  Fuzzy stems are a good indicator that mold will soon follow if one fails to increase fresh air supply.
RR


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: RogerRabbit] * 2
    #14510210 - 05/25/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Oh good, an early correction. I'll update that portion.

:thanx: RR :thumbup:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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Offlinefbi365
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14511687 - 05/25/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Fantastic, thanks for the advice


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: fbi365] * 2
    #14513357 - 05/26/11 01:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fbi365 said:
Fantastic, thanks for the advice




:mypleasure:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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InvisibleLuger0815
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14515165 - 05/26/11 12:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

.

Edited by Luger0815 (07/03/11 10:10 PM)

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OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
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Registered: 09/05/10
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Luger0815] * 2
    #14515262 - 05/26/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:lol: I wish I had this information before I started too! :hehehe:

Thank you for the kind words! :cheers:

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14515615 - 05/26/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Between this and RR pinning strategy I do not think anyone could go wrong, thank you for the info and taking the time to share it with others!

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InvisibleLuger0815
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: PileusSonofGalt] * 2
    #14517906 - 05/26/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

.

Edited by Luger0815 (07/03/11 10:10 PM)

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Registered: 09/05/10
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Luger0815] * 2
    #14517960 - 05/26/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Between this and RR pinning strategy I do not think anyone could go wrong, thank you for the info and taking the time to share it with others!




:woot:

Quote:

Luger0815 said:
With your permission, i linked your thread to the Your favorite and most informative links thread.
Please let me know if this was alright or if i should delete it.





Of course that's fine! I'm glad you find it so useful!

:bigyesnod:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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OfflineIngSocTHC
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Luger0815] * 2
    #14517980 - 05/26/11 09:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wow simply amazing! One of the best articles I have read on this site. It gave me a good laugh to, your awesome!


--------------------
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Talk to who, plese talk to me.
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Offlinei GrOw StUFF
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: IngSocTHC] * 2
    #14518084 - 05/26/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ryath....Is that one of your tubs in your signature?


--------------------
The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: i GrOw StUFF] * 2
    #14518122 - 05/26/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

IngSocTHC said:
Wow simply amazing! One of the best articles I have read on this site. It gave me a good laugh to, your awesome!




Thanks so much! :thumbup:
:lol: I still laugh at the :3some: part when I review for editing.
I'm glad to entertain! :mypleasure:

:peace: :foshizzle:

Quote:

i GrOw StUFF said:
Ryath....Is that one of your tubs in your signature?




:thumbup:  here.


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

Edited by Primal Call (05/26/11 10:21 PM)

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OfflineW-ill-yum
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: Primal Call] * 2
    #14518428 - 05/26/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

thank you this helped a lot!


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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: W-ill-yum] * 3
    #14518707 - 05/26/11 11:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is probably the best over all post I have ever read.:mushroom2:  The only thing I would change(even though the information here is surpassed by very few) is soak time 6-24 hours is way long and a huge and very vague time lapse.

  I would be afraid of the substrate breaking up after that amount of time, I do mine for about 5 but I would not go over 6.  I do it in the bath tub with 1/4 inch holes drilled in the mono and put three wooden dowels through them. It would be cool if you know a better way.


  I truly appreciate you taking the time to post this it gave me an idea in evey single area of my small humble operation I think it will be a brand new day 2mrrw.:thumbup: :Awemush:


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InvisibleDoubleG909
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: newgrower1] * 2
    #14518748 - 05/27/11 12:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's posts like this that make this forum great. I'm sure I'll come back to this for reference at some point and I'm sure it will be a huge help when I do.


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Cubensis Pinning Strategy & Troubleshooting [Re: DoubleG909] * 2
    #14518767 - 05/27/11 12:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

W-ill-yum said:
thank you this helped a lot!




:hatsoff:

Quote:

newgrower1 said:
This is probably the best over all post I have ever read.:mushroom2:  The only thing I would change(even though the information here is surpassed by very few) is soak time 6-24 hours is way long and a huge and very vague time lapse.
  I would be afraid of the substrate breaking up after that amount of time, I do mine for about 5 but I would not go over 6.  I do it in the bath tub with 1/4 inch holes drilled in the mono and put three wooden dowels through them. It would be cool if you know a better way.
  I truly appreciate you taking the time to post this it gave me an idea in evey single area of my small humble operation I think it will be a brand new day 2mrrw.:thumbup: :Awemush:




wow... thank you! I'm very glad this is helping more than a couple people.

On dunking, I've read of varying opinions where some say anything more than 4 hours is not necessary, but some who just prefer to be sure it is completely re-hydrated, thus the broad range of time. Personally, I soak for about 6 hours as well, but sometimes I get distracted and it stays soaking for longer with no ill effect. The only time substrates break/split is when they get lifted unevenly.

Here's a quote that you may consider useful if you have some helping hands around.

Quote:

Wronguy said:
Dunking can certainly be accomplished with large substrates, but I slightly modify it. What I do is simply pour water over the substrate and allow the water to pool over the sides. I continue adding water until the substrate has floated about an inch higher. I wait 24 hours and with two people, pour the water out of the bottom corner hole. One person will hold the bottom of the substrate while the other holds the top.

It's pretty simple and quite effective. My second flush usually comes in about 5 days later and is ready for harvest. Just make sure to change your poly-fill if it gets wet.




As another potential path... I know BlueHelix pours water over (or used to?) the entire substrate and just leaves it floating. I've not yet tried that, but I have read of multiple warnings that standing water is never a good idea. But BlueHelix has some of the most amazing grows I've seen, so he obviously knows what he is doing. :thumbup:

Your method sounds as good as any, though, so if it has been working for you, I say keep doing it! :sunny:

Quote:

DoubleG909 said:
It's posts like this that make this forum great. I'm sure I'll come back to this for reference at some point and I'm sure it will be a huge help when I do.




Indeed, :shroomeryhead: is awesome!

:peace:


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