|
 Tony
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 955
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
 Meditating constantly 
#14375829 - 04/30/11 04:00 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Ramana spoke about something called yoga nidra, which I guess is a kind of a willfully entered state of deep sleep and total suspension of thought activity. He held this to be ultimately not conducive toward full realization, as any thought that was on the subject's mind prior to entering this meditative state will pop right back up once the deep meditation is broken(this is how I experience meditation when I merely do it every now and then, except there's always a subtle irritation that sort of keeps reminding me of the stuff that waits my attention). Kinda like the ego goes to sleep in the evening and wakes up in the morning - the rest in between, whether deep or shallow, long or short, did not cause spiritual awakening.
In fact Ramana didn't recommend going into prolonged deep meditation at all(except maybe to beginners?). So instead of sitting in a lotus position or whatever (though this may be better than not doing anything spiritual at all), one should strive to remain the self constantly, to somehow be reminded always to bring the attention back to the seat of simple witnessing. It should be practiced even during the least spiritual moments, like going to the toilet for instance, or when irritation arises and some kind of an ego clash seems imminent, at all times in other words.
So this kinda challenges the idea that one must go into deep states of meditation regularly and become a zen master at imitating the stereotypical buddha statue. In fact this can easily be used by the ego to postpone spirituality, as it allows the idea "I don't have the time right now" to have some power. A big one for me has been this argument: "Some form of experience is always taking place in emptiness, except in deep sleep and that is not realization, so how could I possibly experience emptiness in a spiritual way when I do it every night naturally and wake up with the same ego and the mental vasanas intact?". So in this light the idea of I must practice meditation becomes a potential trap, not something to be condemned but rather something to be eventually grown out of.
This is more of an open-ended pondering than trying to make some kind of a statement. Feel free to respond in any way you like.
|
Greenvalley
PRS
 
Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,005
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14375846 - 04/30/11 04:07 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
I kind of see the point of meditation with eyes closed to be the easy part. the hard part is to enter that mystical state of mind/experience if the divine whith the eyes open and going on with life actively.
I think that the things that happen during the psychedelic experience can be reproduced/experienced during normal everyday life at will with practice, and all the religions of the world are about doing that
"After enlightenment, I will do the house chores" -the Buddah
--------------------
  
I am looking for land. 5-20 acres for 10-20,000. Can you help? do you know of any land for sale? do you have some for sale? Would you like to help and or be part of this? I want to develop it into a permaculture food forest. Any help would be much appreciated. 
|
the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14375858 - 04/30/11 04:12 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
I find "meditation" most useful while either walking or playing music, or whatever else I may be doing.
While walking, if I clear my mind of thoughts and inner dialogue, look ahead at the horizon, and don't focus on anything in particular
but keep everything in front of me in my view, there is a shift in bodily awareness and my movements become more efficient.
I can feel my center of gravity and there is no excess energy being spent. Like this I could probably walk for hours, but it's easy to get distracted
I've simply never been the sit there and meditate type. For ME, it seems too forced. I like to meditate on what I'm doing, to do it with optimum efficiency.
It's the difference between torturing yourself trying to play guitar, or trying to force creating music,
and maybe playing guitar on a couple hits of acid, not thinking about it everything just seems to flow on its own how it should.
overall I find this a lot more "zen," although if sitting still and meditating ever seems like the best thing to do at the time, then so be it
Edited by the bizzle (04/30/11 04:13 AM)
|
Tony
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 955
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: the bizzle]
#14375906 - 04/30/11 04:38 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
keep everything in front of me in my view, there is a shift in bodily awareness and my movements become more efficient
You said it. Now to extend it to all walks of life.
I guess it's about challenging oneself. The ideas one holds about what is efficient, what is divine and mystical, as opposed to inefficient and mundane. Not to change the ideas, but to experience them without identification. The witness did not create ideas to be permanent objects. Socially this is very difficult to digest (try telling a buddhist congregation that you don't have to practice meditation to become enlightened and they might react in a similar way as a christian congregation would if you told them prayer doesn't work) but on the individual level isn't that the whole idea - to go beyond all ideas of what life should be like, to stand on one's own?
|
 The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,002
Loc: 
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14376230 - 04/30/11 08:27 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
It's an illusion that you need to do anything at all
|
c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,027
Loc: NY
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14376280 - 04/30/11 09:06 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
When I have a good meditation session* it seems to extend itself outwards for hours after the actual sitting meditation. I'll find myself walking down the stairs completely aware, focusing on my feet, still repeating mantra in my head. It's a great feeling and is what Tolle describes as "creating space" in life. Like you say, the goal is to extend the meditative mindset into all areas of life. In Zen they say - "Practice is realization."
*I say "good meditation session" because sometimes I am not able to get into a relaxed state at all and my mind is just out of control racing.
--------------------
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
|
desert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,060
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: the bizzle]
#14377341 - 04/30/11 02:15 PM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
isn't the point of meditation to be prepared for the moment of death?
so i agree with OP, doesn't really matter how long or how often you meditate, as long as you get there when you die.
practicing becoming aware in all situations like OP mentioned...taking a shit, etc, is a great exercise to be ready at that moment of death.
i'm thinking it's kind of like training yourself to notice your hands while you're dreaming in order to become lucid. once you're dead, you'd better realize it quick and get to your meditative state so you don't end up living another life?
i guess that's my idea of what meditation is really for at least.
--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici
|
R2-D2
horseradish
Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 913
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
|
|
Quote:
The Chronic said:
It's an illusion that you need to do anything at all
you cannot make a mistake
--------------------
 
|
Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,070
Last seen: 9 hours, 58 minutes
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: R2-D2]
#14380045 - 05/01/11 12:50 AM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
|
OneU
Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 763
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Kickle]
#14380310 - 05/01/11 01:39 AM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
So with the sleep, for most people, it's a passing out sort of thing. They lay and lay until they "fall asleep" and wake up the next day. To have a sleep meditation and not wake up with the same ego, which in my experience has worked every time is to allow yourself to pass into sleep world in awareness. It is a very peculiar feeling. Very odd. You will start to dream and snap out of dream state and be awake and realize you had just been dreaming. After long practices, this becomes a way to lucid dream.
Good ponder though, I definitely feel what you mean with the ego and the POWER of meditation and how it makes us POWERFUL 
|
Tony
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 955
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: OneU]
#14381307 - 05/01/11 06:47 AM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Powerful egos was the topic in the other thread.
Maybe powerful in the way that you don't have to accept anything temporal as true..
|
Entersandman
Wings of Tomorrow
Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 551
Loc: behind the border
|
|
Quote:
The Chronic said:
It's an illusion that you need to do anything at all
the urge to do something is THE illusion
Fantastic!
--------------------
|
OneU
Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 763
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14382376 - 05/01/11 02:28 PM (2 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Tony said:
Powerful egos was the topic in the other thread.
Maybe powerful in the way that you don't have to accept anything temporal as true..
The bottom part was sarcastic and you used the word ego in your first post 4 times in this thread... I was just saying meditation constantly doesn't have to mean you pause everything, you can observe it flow it's natural way and from doing this one can get a sense of right action.
|
R2-D2
horseradish
Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 913
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: OneU]
#14383474 - 05/01/11 06:13 PM (2 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
what's illusion?
i like kurt vonnegut
--------------------
|
Tony
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 955
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: OneU]
#14383488 - 05/01/11 06:15 PM (2 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
Actually the most spiritual moments for me have been when I feel most powerless and without any sense of right or wrong. Totally confused as the one making decisions but somehow closer to the ineffable than in the state when I seem to know something. Strange paradox. If this is the source of true compassion, then I don't feel I can really cultivate it with practice, it will cultivate my practice. If this is death, then I feel I can't really prepare myself for it in any way, it will prepare me. Something along those lines.
Lately I've been trying to come up with an idea of what devotion might be like for me, how to get it going, and it seems like there's really no way to do it, so these posts are just a by-product of that, plus no man is an island and stuff. So I'm not really arguing against any practice, be it meditation or prayer or whatever. It has been said here many times that it's the intention that counts, and if the intention is just to be humble then that should be good enough whatever the practice, eh? So, basically the mind wants to make it a complicated process though it's not. "What is meditation?" Shut up and just meditate. "How?" Get out of the zen cafe and go into Zen, and stay there. 
|
OneU
Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 763
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14383548 - 05/01/11 06:26 PM (2 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
Hmm... You are confusing me. Surrendering to the Mystery is the same as confusion to you? Also, there is no way to approach devotion? How about listening to whatever source you wish to devote yourself to? Either my habits of this past week have been really unhealthy for me or I'm not getting what you're saying.
|
g00ru
the kava crow
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 17,409
Loc: atlantis
Last seen: 5 hours, 32 minutes
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14384463 - 05/01/11 09:33 PM (2 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
yeah constant remembrance of the self is true spirituality imo, and i think this is what ramana was talking about.
i still meditate every day though, but it's not really for getting deeper into my self, i'm really working with the breath and the vital force primarily. It's just a healthy habit that gives me more energy and that i really love. And of course, as a by product it does sometimes bring me quite deep into my heart.
as for yoga nidra, that's lying down and relaxing all the muscles and yeah it is similar to deep sleep although you try to maintain awareness. Next time your'e really tired in the middle of the day, lie down but instead of falling asleep, just relax ur muscles one by one, don't move at all, and just maintain awareness for like 30 minutes. You'll be very refreshed and you don't have to get all groggy like during a nap. It's great!
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,002
Loc:
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: Tony]
#14386808 - 05/02/11 05:34 AM (2 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Tony said:
Lately I've been trying to come up with an idea of what devotion might be like for me, how to get it going, and it seems like there's really no way to do it
Right now what devotion is to me is valuing inner silence over my own opinion/thoughts, realizing that inner silence is the most important aspect of existence also automatically brings multiple ways of devotion into the mind, as naturally the mind will hold to the Self when it realizes its greatness.
Really we don't devote ourselves to anything, it's more of a mental melting, the material focused mind starts to soften up so qualities like bhakti (love) & jnana (inner wisdom) become present in it's movements, like a mirror they bring energy/attention back into the Self, but we are always perfectly the Self, not only when devotion or meditation come into our minds. 'you are not the mind but the light behind'
Can something infinite be cultivated into existence or isit not ever existent?
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,002
Loc:
|
|
Don't turn your mind towards the light, realize you are the light & blow the mind from inside 
|
g00ru
the kava crow
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 17,409
Loc: atlantis
Last seen: 5 hours, 32 minutes
|
|
the devotional attitude can take so many forms.
on my most recent acid trip the question arose in my mind:
"but who gets the credit?? (like for doing something awesome)
answer "all credit to the O.G." 
|
the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: g00ru]
#14405131 - 05/05/11 02:47 PM (2 years, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
isn't the point of meditation to be prepared for the moment of death?
says who?
--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
   
|
OneU
Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 763
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Meditating constantly [Re: the bizzle]
#14405353 - 05/05/11 03:47 PM (2 years, 16 days ago) |
|
|
The point of meditation is whatever you intend it to be. Don't hold an intention and your most empowered aspect of the self will designate it to it's cause. From breathing to sleeping. If you're angry and empower the ego or the cause of that frustration, every breath will empower that aspect more and more. So on and so forth.
If you meditate to prepare for death, it is something you have chosen not a universal purpose.
|
|
Images only 
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
