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Anonymous said:

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ChellePepper said:

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Anonymous said:
Okay I'm a girl, how do I beat the just friends situation?

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Well, I've been in this situation more times than I care to count.  I have no idea what to tell you. I am the type of girl who attracts boy friends. I am outdoorsy. I can hold my own in a conversation about sports - SEC college football, at least. I can drink, smoke and otherwise party with the best them. I'm not clingy or needy in my friendships, I just go with the flow. I love playing video games and can have detailed convos about every system from the Atari to the 360 - including the Segas.

I'm moderately attractive, slim but curvy with a "cute" face, I'm told. I am not a total tomboy - I love getting dressed up to go out with makeup, accessories.  I get my toes/nail done.  My hair is always neat.

There have been more than a couple of these boy friends that I developed a mad crush on. I though, WOW we are such great friends, we'd be perfect as a couple. However, by that time I was just "one of the guys." They'd probably have slept with me if we got drunk enough, but that wasn't what I wanted.  I wanted them to want me the way they wanted little Miss Muffet who sat on the river bank while I busted my ass trying to wakeboard. They didn't. We hung out a plenty and I would get invited to the outing Miss Muffet wouldn't, but I'd have rather been the girl they took out to diner instead of the sports bar.

At times, it was heart breaking. Especially watching them cuddle on the couch with their Miss Muffet.  Now, I'm glad things stayed the way they did. I started dating a guy BEFORE I became friends with him and he love that I interested in some of the same things he is.  But first, I was just a pretty, chatty girl to him.

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That sucks.  I fear that I am 'one of the boys'.  I'm not sure if I am or not but I seem to get that impression sometimes.  I get so many mixed signals from him though, he acts like he's into me but then he treats me like a buddy of his.  Then he turns around and dates some other chick.  It adds insult to injury when the other chicks seem very much like me in many regards.  Then when his feelings fall flat I suddenly get the attention again, kind of.  I've been open for a relationship with him for years and years now but he's never made the move to turn it into some more than a friendship.  There are a lot of common interests that we have, but I've even tried to show him the things that make me different from him too, the parts of life I pursue when he isn't around, in case that peaks his curiosity or makes him be like "hey this girl has her own separate life too" because I know firsthand what a terrible thing it can be to be in a relationship where literally everything is done as a couple, both him and I enjoying our private times alone.  Anyway I think it's a lost cause.  He is a very close friend but my feelings for him can't be pushed aside any longer, and watching him date girls that I wouldn't mind having as a friend too just makes things worse because I am obviously still jealous of them.

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Fragment said:
Distance yourself. Distance...

Also do not let it affect you simply because it doesn't matter. Stop caring you know how she wants to play and you know what you need to do. Stand up for yourself. Period. Also grab yourself a back up.

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potgrrl said:
In general, here's how GUYS avoid being put into the Friend Zone:

If you're attracted to a woman and want to date her and be with her sexually, make it clear to her that's what you want.  Feminine women deeply appreciate men who can be direct in their words, and who can accept that feminine women will ALWAYS be indirect in theirs.

If she says "no thanks let's just be friends", your response is "no thanks, I don't want to be 'just friends'.  Maybe I'll ask you out again in a few months if you're a good girl in the mean time" then WALK AWAY.  Don't pout, don't whine, don't get angry... and DO NOT try to "be her friend" so she can see what a great guy you are, thinking she'll decide to date you that way.

Go hang with your male friends.  Go work out - lift weights, get strong!  Give the girls something to touch when they are trying to let you know they're interested.  (Ask for dates with the girls who touch your muscles!!)

Get over your fear of rejection by reminding yourself that fortune favors the bold, and it can all be fun and light if you get into the right mindset.  Women LIKE men who can take rejection and not go and pout or whine or worse, get angry and lash out.

Of course, I'm not saying it's going to be easy - (insecure) girls play games like crazy to try to pull guys into their 'orbit', just to get attention and feel attractive.  I understand how difficult that must be for guys to figure out, but certainly, if she's attracted to you you'll know much better once you begin to be more direct yourself.



(hey Anonymous chick, start your own thread and I'll pipe in but I don't like to dilute threads)

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Anonymous said:
Okay I'm a girl, how do I beat the just friends situation?

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there are male pro's in the world as well

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fbi365 said:
Sarah, bends over backwards to make time to hang out with me.  In this sense she was fantastic.  I would say, in every sense, that she goes out of her way to spend time with me. 

She is rarely flakey, except for a few times, like last saturday, when she kinda ditched me to go hang out with her roomates.  But when she texted me and said she had left, I found out later (after I called her out on it) that it was because she had waited for me, in the rain to tell me she was going elsewhere, but finally just left cause it was cold and I was running late.  When I found out she wasn't at the planned place at the planned time I texted her " okay, cool, i guess i will see another time then."  At this point she came ALL the way back, to say, Hi, and sorry, and blah whatever else..

I don't know. I am confused.

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Give her some Molly? then walk around naked while vigorously jelqing.

When she's asks what you are doing tell her you are "maintaining plausible deniability..."

Play "Eye of the Tiger" and really get into jelqing while maintaining an ultra serious countenance...

Then look concerned and tell her you need a spotter for your "penis pushups".

Go now and know that FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION! EYE OF THE TIGER MAN!

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TTT said:

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potgrrl said:
In general, here's how GUYS avoid being put into the Friend Zone:

If you're attracted to a woman and want to date her and be with her sexually, make it clear to her that's what you want.  Feminine women deeply appreciate men who can be direct in their words, and who can accept that feminine women will ALWAYS be indirect in theirs.

If she says "no thanks let's just be friends", your response is "no thanks, I don't want to be 'just friends'.  Maybe I'll ask you out again in a few months if you're a good girl in the mean time" then WALK AWAY.  Don't pout, don't whine, don't get angry... and DO NOT try to "be her friend" so she can see what a great guy you are, thinking she'll decide to date you that way.

Go hang with your male friends.  Go work out - lift weights, get strong!  Give the girls something to touch when they are trying to let you know they're interested.  (Ask for dates with the girls who touch your muscles!!)

Get over your fear of rejection by reminding yourself that fortune favors the bold, and it can all be fun and light if you get into the right mindset.  Women LIKE men who can take rejection and not go and pout or whine or worse, get angry and lash out.

Of course, I'm not saying it's going to be easy - (insecure) girls play games like crazy to try to pull guys into their 'orbit', just to get attention and feel attractive.  I understand how difficult that must be for guys to figure out, but certainly, if she's attracted to you you'll know much better once you begin to be more direct yourself.




(hey Anonymous chick, start your own thread and I'll pipe in but I don't like to dilute threads)

---

I don't agree with any of this. I would never date a guy who behaved in such a way.

I would also never date a guy seriously that I wasn't good friends with for at least a year. I try to maintain some kind of plan for everything I do. I don't like to act without having a backbone to my actions. I would never risk my emotional balance, mental health and time on a guy who I didn't know like the back of my hand.

I want to know what to expect, I want to understand consistency in personality, how one deals with stress, jealousy, etc....things you see as a friend. Any man who can't do that is simply not worth my time.

Pushy guys also make me shut down and turn into "use and abuse" mood. If you directly make me feel like you're trying to control shit and are "in charge", I'll butt heads so hard you won't know what happened. If you do it with smarts and collected coolness, I'll be intimidated because I understand there is shit going on inside that head I don't understand, can't control and want more of.

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Good alternative perspective. Curious though, when you say you only date guys who you've been friends with for a long time, does that include being their friend while you were dating someone else? In my experience being a single guy and friends with a girl who has a BF is a good way to get stuck there for life. I can understand if it's a building thing that happens over time while you're single, but bein the girls shoulder to cry on while she's with other guys is about the worst thing you can do to boost your chances.

Maybe you're unique and not as superficial as the girls I've dated, but the guys they are friends with who have a thing for them are viewed as highly unattractive in that sense. Just emotional support. It's hard to have feelings for someone when you've thought of them like that. This is why I felt I needed to cut off contact with some of the girls after getting put in the friend zone. I told myself exactly what you said, maybe if I'm her friend for a while she'll start to like me and we can get together. But most often it ends up with her finding some new guy when you least expect it, and yo're just the same old boringdependable guy.

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JT said:

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TTT said:

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potgrrl said:
In general, here's how GUYS avoid being put into the Friend Zone:

If you're attracted to a woman and want to date her and be with her sexually, make it clear to her that's what you want.  Feminine women deeply appreciate men who can be direct in their words, and who can accept that feminine women will ALWAYS be indirect in theirs.

If she says "no thanks let's just be friends", your response is "no thanks, I don't want to be 'just friends'.  Maybe I'll ask you out again in a few months if you're a good girl in the mean time" then WALK AWAY.  Don't pout, don't whine, don't get angry... and DO NOT try to "be her friend" so she can see what a great guy you are, thinking she'll decide to date you that way.

Go hang with your male friends.  Go work out - lift weights, get strong!  Give the girls something to touch when they are trying to let you know they're interested.  (Ask for dates with the girls who touch your muscles!!)

Get over your fear of rejection by reminding yourself that fortune favors the bold, and it can all be fun and light if you get into the right mindset.  Women LIKE men who can take rejection and not go and pout or whine or worse, get angry and lash out.

Of course, I'm not saying it's going to be easy - (insecure) girls play games like crazy to try to pull guys into their 'orbit', just to get attention and feel attractive.  I understand how difficult that must be for guys to figure out, but certainly, if she's attracted to you you'll know much better once you begin to be more direct yourself.




(hey Anonymous chick, start your own thread and I'll pipe in but I don't like to dilute threads)

---

I don't agree with any of this. I would never date a guy who behaved in such a way.

I would also never date a guy seriously that I wasn't good friends with for at least a year. I try to maintain some kind of plan for everything I do. I don't like to act without having a backbone to my actions. I would never risk my emotional balance, mental health and time on a guy who I didn't know like the back of my hand.

I want to know what to expect, I want to understand consistency in personality, how one deals with stress, jealousy, etc....things you see as a friend. Any man who can't do that is simply not worth my time.

Pushy guys also make me shut down and turn into "use and abuse" mood. If you directly make me feel like you're trying to control shit and are "in charge", I'll butt heads so hard you won't know what happened. If you do it with smarts and collected coolness, I'll be intimidated because I understand there is shit going on inside that head I don't understand, can't control and want more of.

---

Good alternative perspective. Curious though, when you say you only date guys who you've been friends with for a long time, does that include being their friend while you were dating someone else? In my experience being a single guy and friends with a girl who has a BF is a good way to get stuck there for life. I can understand if it's a building thing that happens over time while you're single, but bein the girls shoulder to cry on while she's with other guys is about the worst thing you can do to boost your chances.

Maybe you're unique and not as superficial as the girls I've dated, but the guys they are friends with who have a thing for them are viewed as highly unattractive in that sense. Just emotional support. It's hard to have feelings for someone when you've thought of them like that. This is why I felt I needed to cut off contact with some of the girls after getting put in the friend zone. I told myself exactly what you said, maybe if I'm her friend for a while she'll start to like me and we can get together. But most often it ends up with her finding some new guy when you least expect it, and yo're just the same old boringdependable guy.

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I am very picky and I don't just date people. If I see someone who has all the qualities I want and they happen to be taken, I can play the friend role because they're decent enough to want in my life in the first place. And if they are, I won't be-friend them with intention, I will because I truly care about them and want to be there for them when they need me.

I feel a guy should be able to do the same thing. Perspectives are always shifting, expanding and wisening up. As friends, we could think we can't work but if you were to look at the mechanics of the relationship over time (a year or more), and saw that it helped each other become who you want to be AND you are sexually attracted....it will happen.

I can't say how common my views are because I don't really have any female friends. I am very much a loner, and have mostly male friends.

This is just how I have interpreted other peoples' failed relationship trials, problems, personal perspective clashes, and patterns in people's personality. My view on it all may very well change in some time. This is how I approach the dating world.

There are guys who I am kind of friends with. They aren't really good friends. They don't make me feel like my close friends do...they kind of penetrate the outer core of my caring. I care about them as people in my life but I could live without them with no problems. Usually I only feel this way about people who I get a long with, but they don't contribute any great things to my life. Its not always an enriching experience hanging out with them. Its more of killing time with another person sort of thing. Small talk with no substance because theres not enough there for substance. Those guys tend to fall for me, for whatever reason, and I often try to keep it casual and make it VERY clear I am not interested. If they're annoying and don't get the message and the cons outweigh the pros, I'll totally take advantage of free food and entertainment.

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fbi365 said:
Sarah, bends over backwards to make time to hang out with me.  In this sense she was fantastic.  I would say, in every sense, that she goes out of her way to spend time with me. 

She is rarely flakey, except for a few times, like last saturday, when she kinda ditched me to go hang out with her roomates.  But when she texted me and said she had left, I found out later (after I called her out on it) that it was because she had waited for me, in the rain to tell me she was going elsewhere, but finally just left cause it was cold and I was running late.  When I found out she wasn't at the planned place at the planned time I texted her " okay, cool, i guess i will see another time then."  At this point she came ALL the way back, to say, Hi, and sorry, and blah whatever else..

I don't know. I am confused...

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TTT said:

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potgrrl said:
In general, here's how GUYS avoid being put into the Friend Zone:

If you're attracted to a woman and want to date her and be with her sexually, make it clear to her that's what you want.  Feminine women deeply appreciate men who can be direct in their words, and who can accept that feminine women will ALWAYS be indirect in theirs.

If she says "no thanks let's just be friends", your response is "no thanks, I don't want to be 'just friends'.  Maybe I'll ask you out again in a few months if you're a good girl in the mean time" then WALK AWAY.  Don't pout, don't whine, don't get angry... and DO NOT try to "be her friend" so she can see what a great guy you are, thinking she'll decide to date you that way.

Go hang with your male friends.  Go work out - lift weights, get strong!  Give the girls something to touch when they are trying to let you know they're interested.  (Ask for dates with the girls who touch your muscles!!)

Get over your fear of rejection by reminding yourself that fortune favors the bold, and it can all be fun and light if you get into the right mindset.  Women LIKE men who can take rejection and not go and pout or whine or worse, get angry and lash out.

Of course, I'm not saying it's going to be easy - (insecure) girls play games like crazy to try to pull guys into their 'orbit', just to get attention and feel attractive.  I understand how difficult that must be for guys to figure out, but certainly, if she's attracted to you you'll know much better once you begin to be more direct yourself.



(hey Anonymous chick, start your own thread and I'll pipe in but I don't like to dilute threads)

---

I don't agree with any of this. I would never date a guy who behaved in such a way.

I would also never date a guy seriously that I wasn't good friends with for at least a year. I try to maintain some kind of plan for everything I do. I don't like to act without having a backbone to my actions. I would never risk my emotional balance, mental health and time on a guy who I didn't know like the back of my hand.

I want to know what to expect, I want to understand consistency in personality, how one deals with stress, jealousy, etc....things you see as a friend. Any man who can't do that is simply not worth my time.

Pushy guys also make me shut down and turn into "use and abuse" mood. If you directly make me feel like you're trying to control shit and are "in charge", I'll butt heads so hard you won't know what happened. If you do it with smarts and collected coolness, I'll be intimidated because I understand there is shit going on inside that head I don't understand, can't control and want more of.

---

Hey there, thanks for your contribution, that's great!

My quick thoughts are:

- "dating" doesn't mean "exclusive" in my book.  It means "getting to know someone I'm attracted to on a level more than 'just friends'".  If "dating" doesn't turn into something exclusive, they go back down to the rank of "acquaintence" instead of "friend" as noted below.
- "friends" are people I feel comfortable inviting into my home, and going to theirs and being alone with them without there being sexual tension in the air.  I am comfortable telling them the more intimate parts of my life going on these days (my stresses, my dreams, my fears, my loves).  I have very few at this level of closeness because it requires a high degree of trust - pretty much to the level of a marital partner - and I don't get into relationships like that without a lot of screening.  Dishonest people need not apply.
- "acquaintences" are people I know on an every day basis.  From work, school, around home, whatever.  They don't come into my home unless it's a group gathering, and they get a "happy, friendly facade" of who I am that doesn't include the more intimate details that my friends get.  This is where I pull my dating pool from, and where I throw them back if it's not looking to work out.

I used to try to be friends with guys who obviously wanted more, but it always turned into a big crap fest filled with drama, jealousy, pouting and whining.  Every time I've tried to be friends with a guy who wanted more, I spent half my time consoling his bruised ego after treating him like a friend and telling him what's going on in my life, like I do for friends.  If I keep them at the aquaintence level then I don't have to deal with a tenth of the drama.

IMO, if your "friend" can't handle hearing when you go on dates with other people, then they're not much of a friend.  They're a poser who is hoping that by being friends with you, you'll eventually see what a great guy they are and want to be with them. It's dishonest at a fundamental level.

That being said, I know there ARE guys and girls who can truly really honestly just be friends - like siblings who get along really great, they can talk about anything in life and they can cheer for each other when each finds love, etc.  That's awesome, I highly approve of those friendships, because they're REAL friendships.  Don't let those go!

There's also a big difference between "leading" and "controlling" that I think we probably fundamentally agree upon - controlling assholes can take a hike, but guys with solid leadership qualities respected by men, women and children alike are VERY attractive to me.  I like to know that my man is respected by other people, after all!

PS:  Re: your "use and abuse" mode can't be used on a guy who has the self-respect to walk away, which is the kind of guy I was encouraging in my original stuff up there.  Guys  and girls only get used for money or sex when they allow it to happen, after all.  A guy who takes the lead and sets the pace of the relationship he wants to have in life, and then walks when the current one doesn't meet his needs isn't one that you can use and abuse, because... he's gone   You either shape up or you let him go.

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potgrrl said:

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TTT said:

Quote:

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potgrrl said:
In general, here's how GUYS avoid being put into the Friend Zone:

If you're attracted to a woman and want to date her and be with her sexually, make it clear to her that's what you want.  Feminine women deeply appreciate men who can be direct in their words, and who can accept that feminine women will ALWAYS be indirect in theirs.

If she says "no thanks let's just be friends", your response is "no thanks, I don't want to be 'just friends'.  Maybe I'll ask you out again in a few months if you're a good girl in the mean time" then WALK AWAY.  Don't pout, don't whine, don't get angry... and DO NOT try to "be her friend" so she can see what a great guy you are, thinking she'll decide to date you that way.

Go hang with your male friends.  Go work out - lift weights, get strong!  Give the girls something to touch when they are trying to let you know they're interested.  (Ask for dates with the girls who touch your muscles!!)

Get over your fear of rejection by reminding yourself that fortune favors the bold, and it can all be fun and light if you get into the right mindset.  Women LIKE men who can take rejection and not go and pout or whine or worse, get angry and lash out.

Of course, I'm not saying it's going to be easy - (insecure) girls play games like crazy to try to pull guys into their 'orbit', just to get attention and feel attractive.  I understand how difficult that must be for guys to figure out, but certainly, if she's attracted to you you'll know much better once you begin to be more direct yourself.



(hey Anonymous chick, start your own thread and I'll pipe in but I don't like to dilute threads)

---

I don't agree with any of this. I would never date a guy who behaved in such a way.

I would also never date a guy seriously that I wasn't good friends with for at least a year. I try to maintain some kind of plan for everything I do. I don't like to act without having a backbone to my actions. I would never risk my emotional balance, mental health and time on a guy who I didn't know like the back of my hand.

I want to know what to expect, I want to understand consistency in personality, how one deals with stress, jealousy, etc....things you see as a friend. Any man who can't do that is simply not worth my time.

Pushy guys also make me shut down and turn into "use and abuse" mood. If you directly make me feel like you're trying to control shit and are "in charge", I'll butt heads so hard you won't know what happened. If you do it with smarts and collected coolness, I'll be intimidated because I understand there is shit going on inside that head I don't understand, can't control and want more of.

---

Hey there, thanks for your contribution, that's great!

My quick thoughts are:

- "dating" doesn't mean "exclusive" in my book.  It means "getting to know someone I'm attracted to on a level more than 'just friends'".  If "dating" doesn't turn into something exclusive, they go back down to the rank of "acquaintance" instead of "friend" as noted below.
- "friends" are people I feel comfortable inviting into my home, and going to theirs and being alone with them without there being sexual tension in the air.  I am comfortable telling them the more intimate parts of my life going on these days (my stresses, my dreams, my fears, my loves).  I have very few at this level of closeness because it requires a high degree of trust - pretty much to the level of a marital partner - and I don't get into relationships like that without a lot of screening.  Dishonest people need not apply.
- "acquaintances" are people I know on an every day basis.  From work, school, around home, whatever.  They don't come into my home unless it's a group gathering, and they get a "happy, friendly facade" of who I am that doesn't include the more intimate details that my friends get.  This is where I pull my dating pool from, and where I throw them back if it's not looking to work out.

I used to try to be friends with guys who obviously wanted more, but it always turned into a big crap fest filled with drama, jealousy, pouting and whining.  Every time I've tried to be friends with a guy who wanted more, I spent half my time consoling his bruised ego after treating him like a friend and telling him what's going on in my life, like I do for friends.  If I keep them at the acquaintance level then I don't have to deal with a tenth of the drama.

IMO, if your "friend" can't handle hearing when you go on dates with other people, then they're not much of a friend.  They're a poser who is hoping that by being friends with you, you'll eventually see what a great guy they are and want to be with them. It's dishonest at a fundamental level.

That being said, I know there ARE guys and girls who can truly really honestly just be friends - like siblings who get along really great, they can talk about anything in life and they can cheer for each other when each finds love, etc.  That's awesome, I highly approve of those friendships, because they're REAL friendships.  Don't let those go!

There's also a big difference between "leading" and "controlling" that I think we probably fundamentally agree upon - controlling assholes can take a hike, but guys with solid leadership qualities respected by men, women and children alike are VERY attractive to me.  I like to know that my man is respected by other people, after all!

PS:  Re: your "use and abuse" mode can't be used on a guy who has the self-respect to walk away, which is the kind of guy I was encouraging in my original stuff up there.  Guys  and girls only get used for money or sex when they allow it to happen, after all.  A guy who takes the lead and sets the pace of the relationship he wants to have in life, and then walks when the current one doesn't meet his needs isn't one that you can use and abuse, because... he's gone   You either shape up or you let him go.

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