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 imachavel
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 the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity 
#13964539 - 02/15/11 12:10 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/40910-how-the-universe-works-the-power-of-dust-video.htm
it used to be thought that it took a large amount of mass to create gravity in space. we now know that any object left in space with another object for an amount of time will begin to form gravity, naturally. whether it begins with electromagnetic attraction or not, we don't know
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 DieCommie
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13964581 - 02/15/11 12:16 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Because more stuff clumps together right? More stuff equals more gravity.
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demonofchaos
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: DieCommie]
#13964657 - 02/15/11 12:27 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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nah duh how do they think plantets came to be one a bunch of dust came and together to make rocks and rocks came together to make planets
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Doc_T
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: demonofchaos]
#13964689 - 02/15/11 12:33 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
used to be thought that it took a large amount of mass to create gravity in space.
Since Newton, we have known that all masses attract, regardless of size. Like 300 years.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Doc_T]
#13965368 - 02/15/11 02:24 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
used to be thought that it took a large amount of mass to create gravity in space.
Since Newton, we have known that all masses attract, regardless of size. Like 300 years.
wow, didn't know that. how did he know that?? also, in space, drops of water form a perfect sphere. so OBVIOUSLY there COULD be water planets. composed ENTIRELY of water. I used to think that wasn't possible, that it wouldn't hold itself together without something like rock underneath it, how wrong I was
same with gas planets, etc.
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Idiot
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13966518 - 02/15/11 11:29 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also surface tension, surface tension makes 0g water droplets form perfect spheres. Solid objects can form non round objects while water will, as efficiently as possible, go back to being a perfect sphere every time.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Idiot]
#13967274 - 02/15/11 02:28 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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but the perfect sphere factor means that it has it's own center of gravity when it forms together, otherwise it'd just be a moving blob but it forms a PERFECT sphere.
without gravity a lot of substances have physical properties we don't seem to know about. for example honey is difficult to even seperate, i mean not really. we know it's very sticky but gravity does a fine job seperating it. but if you pull it apart it forms back together. I wonder if aside from gravity if all these substances have their own magnetic charges from whatever electrical charges each substance atom or molecule possesses. here on earth we don't realize it but there is a HUGE electro magnetic charge being generated between the poles and other things. in space without that huge charge the ground holds I wonder if substances are more able to hold them self together.
if a person where to take wood chips, or sawdust, and then maybe iron dust, and see which one in space clumps together first, it'd be interesting
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Idiot
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13967367 - 02/15/11 02:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Electromagnetism is different than natural magnetism. And magnetism is different from gravity.
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DieCommie
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Idiot]
#13967378 - 02/15/11 02:51 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Electromagnetism is different than natural magnetism.
Huh? Im not sure what you mean here, but I dont think that is right.
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Idiot
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: DieCommie]
#13967456 - 02/15/11 03:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Eh, I was gonna make a long detailed post but lost interest pretty quickly, so I just dropped in some short BS. In hindsight I probably could have just not posted.
I've always heard that there's a differences between electromagnetism and natural magnetism for reasons too complex for me to understand.
And I've always been under the impression that gravity deals with space-time rather than magnetism.
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Chespirito
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Idiot]
#13968239 - 02/15/11 05:10 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Idiot said:
I've always heard that there's a differences between electromagnetism and natural magnetism for reasons too complex for me to understand.
You heard wrong
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Annom
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Chespirito]
#13969087 - 02/15/11 07:43 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, there is a difference between ferromagnets and electromagnets, although no fundamental difference.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Idiot]
#13969981 - 02/15/11 10:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Idiot said:
Eh, I was gonna make a long detailed post but lost interest pretty quickly, so I just dropped in some short BS. In hindsight I probably could have just not posted.
I've always heard that there's a differences between electromagnetism and natural magnetism for reasons too complex for me to understand.
And I've always been under the impression that gravity deals with space-time rather than magnetism.
whenever people find some force of nature they can't prove, they come up with some elaborate stephen hawking 'space time' theory. gravity isn't some elaborate made up acid trip philosophical conversation. it's an every day thing, it's as real as the ground you lay on, and if you stand too far above the ground you lay on, gravity can kill you.
electro magnetism and magnetism aren't different. it's like this. atoms and molecules are spheres(well, spherical anyway) and like any spheres they have a negative and positive side, and each opposite ends, just like planet earth. in a magnet all the atoms or molecules are arranged evenly, so one side is facing in one direction, and another in another direction. therefore you have a negative attraction on one side, and a positive attraction on another side. negative and positive magnetism. the reason for this is that since all the positive sides of the molecules are facing one direction, and the negative sides of the molecules are facing the other direction, the electric force of magnetism that is positive flows in one direction, and the negative side flows in the other direction.
now what you are thinking is that for electricity to work doesn't require magnetics, but that is because the way we utilize electricity is by creating a circuit for electricity to continue flowing around in a circle, not just from one end to another.
does that make sense? i know it's complicated, it confuses me as well, but I can tell you that magnetism requires and electric force of positive in one direction and negative in another direction.
an electro magnet is simply called an electro magnet because the molecules aren't arranged in order until it is given a charge which does so when the current runs through it. therefore it is an electro charged magnet. same principal
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Annom]
#13969994 - 02/15/11 10:12 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said:
Well, there is a difference between ferromagnets and electromagnets, although no fundamental difference.
fundamentally no different what so ever. a ferromagnet is an electro magnet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro_magnet#Analysis_of_ferromagnetic_electromagnets
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Idiot
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13972622 - 02/16/11 10:49 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the difference I may have perceived from previous conversations may be a lot less complex than I initially though before I started posting in this thread.
I was thinking there was some sort of fundamental change in the way they worked, I don't know why I came to that conclusion. Anyways, I've come to the conclusion that the difference that I was told was basically electromagnets require electricity and have no fixed pole while natural magnets have fixed poles (or at least take a lot of energy to change poles) and don't require electricity.
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Idiot]
#13973238 - 02/16/11 01:31 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe that Annom meant that while there is a physical difference between electromagnets (requiring and applied voltage) and the magnets on your refrigerator (molecules frozen in alignment), they both operate on the same electromagnetic force and are thus identical in practice.
Edited by Bacchus (02/16/11 01:56 PM)
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cc2
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Doc_T]
#13973936 - 02/16/11 04:18 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
used to be thought that it took a large amount of mass to create gravity in space.
Since Newton, we have known that all masses attract, regardless of size. Like 300 years.
true. even us create a small attraction to Earth, though negligible 'cos of the huge difference
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: cc2]
#13980425 - 02/17/11 08:23 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cc2 said:
Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
used to be thought that it took a large amount of mass to create gravity in space.
Since Newton, we have known that all masses attract, regardless of size. Like 300 years.
true. even us create a small attraction to Earth, though negligible 'cos of the huge difference
amazing, never even thought about it.
here is something you probably never thought about. the air pressure on top of us is probably millions of pounds or tons. although air weighs very little, the amount on top of the world in the atmosphere has to at least equal thousands of pounds. now imagine all that weight being displaced by the surface of the earth so it evens out, and who knows how much actually weighs down on you. although it doesn't hurt you, the pressure is still enough that in zero pressure in space you would explode from your body being made to handle immense pressure, and having none.
now imagine instead of the earth, a great ball of iron and magma and the minerals and metals and the crust, displacing all that atmosphere, the atmosphere was taken away, and put somewhere else, where it formed another sphere, and held itself together, and instead of it resting on the surface of the earth, you were in the center of it. it would most definitely crush you. of course in such a situation the air wouldn't be held in place as I'm sure it wouldn't have enough mass to create gravity, it's the gravity of the earth that holds it down. but imagine you could use the same amount of gravity, remove the earth, and place yourself in the center of all that air pushing downwards, without the displacement of all the earth to hold it up. you would surely be crushed.
the concept is similar to stepping on a nail and it going into your foot, and walking on nails and your weight being even as to where they don't penetrate your foot. anyone understand what I'm saying?
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Bacchus
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13980777 - 02/17/11 09:25 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Probably millions of pounds or tons" is correct.
I remember from physics that the Earth's atmosphere exerts 14.7psi at sea level. That's the weight of the Earth's atmosphere on one square inch. Multiply that by surface area to get total weight (not mass. we're talking about Earth's gravity). That's 2116.8lbs/ft^2. Over one ton of force on a single square foot of area.
The surface area of the Earth is roughly 7.90613181 × 10x17 inches^2 (That's a 79 followed by 16 zeros!!) Multiplied by 14.7 lb/in^2 equals 1.16220138 × 10^19 pounds which rounds to 12 followed by 18 zeros!!
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Edited by Bacchus (02/17/11 09:29 PM)
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Bacchus]
#13980965 - 02/17/11 10:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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insane
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mushiepussy
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13981306 - 02/17/11 11:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Electromagnetism- can exist with one pole
Natural magnets-Has never been observed as a monopole anywhere in the universe.
Electromagnetism aligns electrons by an electric current, the electrons losing alignment without current.
natural magnets have permanently aligned electrons, so it is called
a permanent magnet.
Gravity is the weakest of the fundamental forces, but is always present and can act over extremely long distances. It does not begin with electromagnetism. It does not "form" but gravitational bonds can become active when enough gravitons are shared between two bodies.
The more mass a body has, the more gravitons it emits. So when more and more mass accumulates the more gravitational attraction it has.
duhhh.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: mushiepussy]
#13981885 - 02/18/11 12:42 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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weird, no one knows what gravity is
and no shit it acts over extremely long distances
i wonder what the hell it is lol
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DieCommie
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13982091 - 02/18/11 01:10 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
weird, no one knows what gravity is
and no shit it acts over extremely long distances
i wonder what the hell it is lol
Whats worse is that question ultimately applies to everything. Well, maybe thats not 'worse', but I think you see what I mean.
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twighead
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel] 1
#13982104 - 02/18/11 01:12 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
Idiot said:
Eh, I was gonna make a long detailed post but lost interest pretty quickly, so I just dropped in some short BS. In hindsight I probably could have just not posted.
I've always heard that there's a differences between electromagnetism and natural magnetism for reasons too complex for me to understand.
And I've always been under the impression that gravity deals with space-time rather than magnetism.
whenever people find some force of nature they can't prove, they come up with some elaborate stephen hawking 'space time' theory. gravity isn't some elaborate made up acid trip philosophical conversation. it's an every day thing, it's as real as the ground you lay on, and if you stand too far above the ground you lay on, gravity can kill you.
What is so dis-credible about Stephen Hawking's Einstein's space time curvature theories? Why can't something that is 'real' be elaborate? Its a completely legitimate theory, not some 'made up acid trip philosophical conversation'.
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Bacchus
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: twighead]
#13982867 - 02/18/11 04:12 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Because gravity as we understand it today simply can not be aligned with the other fundamental forces. Electricity, magnetism, strong nuclear force, and weak nuclear force have been unified into one single equation. Gravity is a lumbering bastard child that won't place nicely with the others and that's why we suddenly get 10-dimensional hyperspace...
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DieCommie
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Bacchus]
#13983348 - 02/18/11 09:53 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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How does that discredit the theory of gravity though? You may as well discredit quantum theory rather than gravity using that logic... But quantum theory and the theory of gravity are the most accurate scientific theories that man has ever made - it seems ridiculous to 'discredit' either.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: DieCommie]
#13983932 - 02/18/11 12:51 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
How does that discredit the theory of gravity though? You may as well discredit quantum theory rather than gravity using that logic... But quantum theory and the theory of gravity are the most accurate scientific theories that man has ever made - it seems ridiculous to 'discredit' either.
well, Einstein is hard to dis credit, because just about every single thing he ever said has come true. although a lot of people dis agree with this, stephan hawkings to me comes up with some really smart theories and some really weird ones. Einstein to me wasn't just smart, he was an artist. he went out and tested his theories over and over and over and over again. to the best he could with the tools and science he had at that time. sure, hawkings is in a wheel chair, and himself can't move. but hawkings writes a lot of 'books', and honestly has a lot of 'ideas' that really no one has proved, or i guess disproved.
any way it's really hard for me to believe that gravity is a function of the bending or changing of space time itself. it's just too elaborate for me to believe, when gravity itself is so simple. the bending of space and time itself is very real and possible. in fact we've said that when leaving the earth you might encounter fields where time itself moves at a much different rate then here. for you a day might go by on earth your aunt might have seen a month who knows.
but what this has to do with gravity I don't know. if gravity occured in a swimming pool it would be so much simpler to explain. one mass would obviously MOVE other particles and if one was larger it could seemingly have a great effect on much smaller particles.
it would almost seem that gravity is SO simple that it just IS what it is. of course we don't know what that is. lol. I accept it for what it is, knowing we are just fungi in a petri dish in the great experiment of life. and so many forces are beyond our control.
just baffles me is all. it must be so simple to explain, just that we don't know any of the variables, anything about it at all, so to speak.
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DieCommie
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13983994 - 02/18/11 01:05 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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First off, its "Hawking", not "Hawkings". But Im not even sure why you mention him...
Beyond that triviality, I think your post is wrong on many things.
Just about everything Einstein said has not come true. He had alot of good ideas in his early career that panned out. He had alot of good ideas in his later career that did not pan out, and he stubbornly stuck to them in spite of the evidence. He did not go out and test his theories over and over, other people did that. Finally, just because the theory of gravity is elaborate doesn't make it wrong. The fact that it matches our observations alone makes it right (to some extent).
There is no reason to expect that the fundamental laws of nature are simple, or easily understood by humans.
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: DieCommie]
#13984328 - 02/18/11 02:11 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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they are not simple but they can and will be understood by humans.
Think of gravity as a whirlpool in the fabric of space.
All objects have a surrounding whirlpool, and when two
objects whirlpools come close enough they will pull the objects
together. It acts just as two whirlpools in water would act or
two tornados would act.
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DieCommie
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: mushiepussy]
#13984487 - 02/18/11 02:39 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dont think that is right.
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ChuangTzu
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: DieCommie]
#13984546 - 02/18/11 02:52 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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This entire thread has me lost...
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Bacchus
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: ChuangTzu]
#13984894 - 02/18/11 03:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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ChuangTzu, that's because this thread is pretty pointless.
And DieCommie, it doesn't discredit General Relativity. It just means that our understanding of gravity is likely incomplete. General Relativity has been wildly accurate and successful at predicting time dilation, black holes, gravitational lensing, and frequency shifting, among others, but it can not yet cope with dark energy/dark matter for which observational evidence is piling up. There's also the problem of why the pioneer probes are decelerating faster than expected.
These little issues combined with the fact that gravitation is incompatible with quantum field theory indicates that we have more to learn.
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DieCommie
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Bacchus]
#13985239 - 02/18/11 05:04 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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General relativity copes with dark matter and energy just fine. If dark matter doesnt exist, then general relativity is in trouble.
But more to the point, I dont see why you would single out G.R. as being incomplete. No scientific theory is 'complete'. But if there were any measure of the 'completeness' of scientific theories, G.R. would be a top contender.
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Annom
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13985370 - 02/18/11 05:38 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The gravitational attraction between two persons at other ends of the world is about 3E-21 N
Can you feel me?
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twighead
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: Bacchus]
#13986289 - 02/18/11 09:02 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bacchus said:
Because gravity as we understand it today simply can not be aligned with the other fundamental forces. Electricity, magnetism, strong nuclear force, and weak nuclear force have been unified into one single equation. Gravity is a lumbering bastard child that won't place nicely with the others and that's why we suddenly get 10-dimensional hyperspace...
I'm more referring to the bending of space-time part than the general relativity part. The way I see it all of those new theories are still quite connected to the older ones, they simply elaborate upon it.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: mushiepussy]
#13987589 - 02/19/11 12:56 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushiepussy said:
they are not simple but they can and will be understood by humans.
Think of gravity as a whirlpool in the fabric of space.
All objects have a surrounding whirlpool, and when two
objects whirlpools come close enough they will pull the objects
together. It acts just as two whirlpools in water would act or
two tornados would act.
exactly, how could this be so fundamentally simple, yet space time gets involved?
some things are complex, but gravity, despite how it may seem, is not complex. it acts with anything, ON ANYthing, it works in ANY situation in space, even with grains of salt, if you watched the first video in the first post I made on here.
how can something work on a space time level when you watch in your own hands? this isn't the difference how the STRENGTH of gravity in later regions of the galaxy, it is simply the understanding of what it is, and what it does. I just think it's something very simple we don't yet understand. not to shoot down die commie, that's just what I think.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: DieCommie]
#13987626 - 02/19/11 01:02 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
I dont think that is right.
how could it not be? how could it be any different? it works EXACTLY like objects in water would. you swirl a larger object around a smaller object, and it attracts the object into an orbit, just like a large ball being spun around under water would attract all the particles in the water around it.
things in conjunction with other things may become complex, but EVERY thing at the fundamental level is ALWAYS simple. it's only when projected in scenarios combined with many other variables that it takes on a complexity. even atomic science is SO simple as the fundamental basic level. How could gravity, which acts so understandably, and so predictably, be so complex? we don't know what makes it, but it acts in a basic fashion, and applies the same to all things.
I could never believe space time changing would be the answer. if so you would notice heavier objects would slow down a clock nearer you when it dropped. you would notice the time on a different clock moved faster, and the clock with the object you just dropped would have slowed, only consistent results of dropping a heavy object around a clock would tell you gravity worked in such a complex way. there is no evidence of this. it simply does not work on a space time level.
it's function is basic and predictable, just as objects in a whirlpool under water, we just can't 'see' the particles it is moving that creates it's pull, such as you would see in water.
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Chespirito
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13987686 - 02/19/11 01:10 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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twighead
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13987878 - 02/19/11 01:46 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
mushiepussy said:
they are not simple but they can and will be understood by humans.
Think of gravity as a whirlpool in the fabric of space.
All objects have a surrounding whirlpool, and when two
objects whirlpools come close enough they will pull the objects
together. It acts just as two whirlpools in water would act or
two tornados would act.
exactly, how could this be so fundamentally simple, yet space time gets involved?
some things are complex, but gravity, despite how it may seem, is not complex. it acts with anything, ON ANYthing, it works in ANY situation in space, even with grains of salt, if you watched the first video in the first post I made on here.
how can something work on a space time level when you watch in your own hands? this isn't the difference how the STRENGTH of gravity in later regions of the galaxy, it is simply the understanding of what it is, and what it does. I just think it's something very simple we don't yet understand. not to shoot down die commie, that's just what I think.
Gravity isn't fundamentally simple. All he posted is what we can observe and form hypothesis about... we honestly have no clue how/why it is so in the first place. Anyway, its impossible for matter to exist without interacting with space-time. If you believe in space-time that is.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: twighead]
#13988094 - 02/19/11 02:34 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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well how is it not possible for matter to exist without interacting with space time, if space time hasn't even been proved as existing yet?
and how do we gravity isn't fundamentally simple if we don't know how it works? and honestly how could it be anything but fundamentally simple? you can observe it with any set of planets, any set of orbits, and it is going to basically act the same way?
are you going to argue that pluto doesn't follow the same elliptical orbit that the other 8 planets do? but recently pluto's orbit has been said as being too far out and that it isn't really a planet in our solar system but more of a satellite in close orbit but not actual orbit around our sun?
I don't know. I agree we don't know enough about it to explain what it is, but from what I've seen it seems very fundamentally simple to me.
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mushiepussy
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: twighead]
#13988116 - 02/19/11 02:39 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes fundamentaly we do not understand it.
But observationally, it is simple.
I believe what the gravitational theory is missing is a
key property of space-time itself. If you are knowledgable
about the Higgs field, I believe it would act very similarly
to it, being that it has an effect on all matter and gives it
the properties we observe. It would act like a fluid, existing
everywhere and filling all voids. It would have to act like an
ocean, if some of it moves more would have to take its place,
creating currents(current could explain dark energy)and causing
gravity by the currents matter creates when moving through the fluid.
The bending of light around an objects gravitational field(the
evidence einstein had to back up his theory)would still be observed,
fluid in different shapes is known to reflect light differently.
The fluid would be a seamless entity, with no observable particles,
also know as a superfluid. It would explain why space seems to be empty. The fluid should be able to change it's properties, depending
on the energy equilibrium state of the universe, observed as cosmic
microwave background. This would explain the rapid expansion of the
universe during the big bang(energy equilibrium being much much higher) and stage of the universe when atomic structure was formed
(400,000 years after big bang when equilibrium became a low enough
energy for protons and electrons to bond) as a simple matter of
matters proximity to itself and the effect it has on the superfluid.
I believe when we find the missing link(s), it will be something
very simple. Such as space-time acting as a fluid.
Or FSM flys around earth with his spahgetti attached to the
sun and the moon holding us together while he moniters our
lives everyday to make sure we are doing the right thing.
you know, something simple.
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twighead
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13988184 - 02/19/11 03:02 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
well how is it not possible for matter to exist without interacting with space time, if space time hasn't even been proved as existing yet?
and how do we gravity isn't fundamentally simple if we don't know how it works? and honestly how could it be anything but fundamentally simple? you can observe it with any set of planets, any set of orbits, and it is going to basically act the same way?
are you going to argue that pluto doesn't follow the same elliptical orbit that the other 8 planets do? but recently pluto's orbit has been said as being too far out and that it isn't really a planet in our solar system but more of a satellite in close orbit but not actual orbit around our sun?
I don't know. I agree we don't know enough about it to explain what it is, but from what I've seen it seems very fundamentally simple to me.
That is why I said, if you believed it... IF you believed the theory than you believe all bodies effect space time as the theory states.
It might be simple looking on the scale of planets but it varies in strength over different orders of magnitude even when the ratios of mass and distance are the same... Also don't forget black holes... some funky things happen incredible amounts of gravity work upon space, and people are far from understanding it - its not simple.
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: twighead]
#13988445 - 02/19/11 04:26 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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well, I see what you mean
but I still don't agree gravity is just a force of space time itself. But I do, think as in a black hole, that massive gravity effects things like space(light, objects, all of it) and time.
but that is like saying that something that is so massive and so thick effects light by being so heavy that it blocks it completely, and therefore it is made of light. such is not the case.
so I hope we can agree to disagree. I'm sure gravity effects space time, but I feel it is much too simple to actually be composed of space time itself. Thanks
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twighead
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: imachavel]
#13988621 - 02/19/11 05:20 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well given that no one is right when there are no facts its just a sharing of views 
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imachavel
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Re: the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity [Re: twighead]
#13988623 - 02/19/11 05:22 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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