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 Shot.In.Orbit
Stranger Danger!
Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 255
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 Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms...  [Re: Maverick]
#13721774 - 01/02/11 10:15 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maverick said:
I've actually been interested in growing Agaricus Augustus, supposedly they fruit under very similar conditions. :o
Want to hop on board... weedhopper just ordered some LC from Sporeworks... I got my WBS Soaking... If you want to lend a Hand join in...got some Agaricus Augustus cultures?
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 Maverick
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Shot.In.Orbit]
#13722358 - 01/03/11 12:01 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wish I had them, that's my main thing is I'm trying to locate someone with a print or a culture they could send. If I knew anyone in portland, I could tell them where I used to find them and they could snag one lol.
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Shot.In.Orbit
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Maverick]
#13722701 - 01/03/11 01:18 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well you could always CLICK HERE and get one
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Lakotis
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Shot.In.Orbit]
#13723493 - 01/03/11 07:42 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ive been there , a little disappointed that shroomery members have so few good successful Agaricus grows,, In particular grows tailored to small scale hobby growing. But I got over it and am trying them now.
Here are my results so far, Rye Spawn, Landfill compost 70%/straw 10%/manure 10%/ spent Coffee,Coir,Gypsum,Limestone 10% composted for a month/
Tub has not fully colonized after 3 weeks, with Much cobweb on the surface.
A: My compost was not suitable or
B: Was not pasteurized enough or
C: Spawn was contaminated or
D: Spawn was not fully colonized or
E: Myriad other possible failures
When people say compost. they don't necessarily mean what other people mean by compost. Would love a compost of about 60% grass clippings, 40% horse manure.
Been tweeking my compost (in 5 gallon buckets), reducing greatly the landfill portion, by adding much coffee grounds, coir, straw etc.
In future attempts, I will be allowing spawn to fully fully mature in jars, and probably nearly sterilize the compost, something like 190f for 2 hours to make sure everything is dead.
Hopefully come spring be able to locate a good lawn/garden compost instead of the woody landfill stuff i got of questionably origin
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"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."
John Maynard Keynes
  
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Maverick
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Lakotis]
#13723816 - 01/03/11 10:37 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lakotis, I'm with you on that, I've only seen a couple good agaricus grows here, most were done by workman. I'm interested in the other species of agaricus, like the augustus and blazei more than I am bitorquis or bisporis.
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Mycelio
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Lakotis]
#13723859 - 01/03/11 10:51 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, Agaricus species are not beginner friendly. Knowing how to grow cubes won't be of too much help. You guys should keep on searching and reading. It seems you gave up too early and missed a few important details.
Spawn
Pure grain often takes ages to colonize, sometimes it even fails. Add straw and manure or straw and compost to the grain, then you won't get old before it is ready.
Substrate
You want a high nitrogen content and partially decomposed straw. As long as you can't do proper hot composting, you better sterilize your substrate. Agaricus mycelium is slow, so use a high spawn ratio. I prefer 50%. Once colonized, you can crumble it up and mix in more.
Casing
The common material is pasteurized peat with lime powder. I did have success with untreated nutrient poor soil, but it sometimes failed. Make sure you don't introduce too many gnats, mites, nematodes, mold or weed fungi, so pasteurization is helpful.
Once the mycelium shows up on the surface, increase air exchange and keep the casing layer moist, not wet. High humidity helps, but enough fresh air seemed more important to me. Stale air encourages mold or bacterial contams like brown spots and rotting pins.
Agaricus species in general
The need for living bacteria in the casing layer differs not only between species, but from strain to strain.
A. bisporus and A. bitorquis are both red staining species and can be treated exactly the same way. It's just that A. bitorquis tolerates higher fruiting temperatures, while A. bisporus stops fruiting above 20°C.
A. brasiliensis, augustus and all the other yellow staining species are a different story. They can be grown on compost, but also (and easier) on supplemented sawdust. The typical almond smell (benzaldehyde) comes from digesting lignin.
Depending on the species, starting from spores will be somewhere between hard to almost impossible. Sometimes it works, sometimes it needs about a month, sometimes you need to have living mycelium in close reach to stimulate germination.
Carsten
Edited by Mycelio (01/03/11 10:56 AM)
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Maverick
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Mycelio]
#13724001 - 01/03/11 11:35 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, workman was just telling me that generally you need a live culture to propagate most agarics. I'm hoping to find someone who has the ability to get me a viable culture, as I'd love to expand on it and grow them. My garage stays between 30F-50F, and it wouldn't be hard to section an area off in there that would be heated to 50-60F constantly, as the garage is of a newer model house, 3 port and is insulated.
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Mycelio
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Maverick]
#13724105 - 01/03/11 12:07 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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There must be several fellow growers in the US with cultures of A. blazei (= A. brasiliensis = A. subrufescens). Perhaps somebody has a spare spore print for you. This species may be the easiest to start from spores, while it is almost impossible with A. augustus.
Carsten
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fungus_tao
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Mycelio]
#13724176 - 01/03/11 12:22 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Carsten, that was a delightful read. I have a culture of A. blazei if anyone wants it 
I am doing some tests with A. blazei on spent oyster sub. So far, so good.
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Mycelio
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: fungus_tao]
#13724304 - 01/03/11 12:58 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi Tao, did you use pure spent oyster sub? I'm currently adding 10% of it to all my substrates, but I'm having mold problems when adding more than 20%.
Carsten
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fungus_tao
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Mycelio]
#13724359 - 01/03/11 01:15 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I used mostly spent oyster sub....70-80% eyeballed. I added peat, gypsum, coffee grounds, a small amount of wheat bran, and 1.5 Tbsp veg oil. It colonized fast. Crazy fast. Cased it about 3 days ago. My spent oyster blocks were frozen solid when I started breaking them up.
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Tangich
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: fungus_tao]
#13724387 - 01/03/11 01:22 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was just thinking today if something useful can be done with spent oyster substrates, like it can with shiitake's. Please report on the progress! 
I'm intrigued with blazei's medicinal properties, I will certainly give it a try, not for a while tough, already have too much on my plate(s).
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Shot.In.Orbit
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Mycelio]
#13724522 - 01/03/11 01:56 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am feeling like I bit off more than I can chew... I am thinking I should start with another specie. This will be my first grow with edibles and I am starting to believe this is probably one of the harder mushrooms to cultivate...
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Mycelio
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: fungus_tao]
#13724542 - 01/03/11 02:02 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungus_tao said:
I used mostly spent oyster sub....70-80% eyeballed. I added peat, gypsum, coffee grounds, a small amount of wheat bran, and 1.5 Tbsp veg oil. It colonized fast. Crazy fast. Cased it about 3 days ago. My spent oyster blocks were frozen solid when I started breaking them up.
Sounds great. Please keep us updated.
Carsten
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Shot.In.Orbit
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Mycelio]
#13724586 - 01/03/11 02:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just got a PM from Workman. I am not trying to start a scuffle between anyone here about growth perimeters on Agaricus bitorquis : Warm Weather Button, Tork Culture. But...
Here is what Workman say's:
Quote:
Workman said:
It will actually grow under cubensis parameters and at room temperature. The growth is very slow at first but will pick up once it gets going. Substrate is compost but it will also fruit directly from grains. It needs a casing layer. The Mushroom Cultivator by Paul Stamets has more info and you can find copies of that online.
Here is what Mycelio say's:
Quote:
Mycelio said:
Well, Agaricus species are not beginner friendly. Knowing how to grow cubes won't be of too much help. You guys should keep on searching and reading. It seems you gave up too early and missed a few important details.
Now I am just utterly confused... I know you both have successfully grown and can repeat as necessary but your methods seem night and day from one another...
2 proven cultivators of Agaricus bitorquis. What one should I follow?
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Shot.In.Orbit
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: fungus_tao]
#13724592 - 01/03/11 02:14 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungus_tao said:
Carsten, that was a delightful read. I have a culture of A. blazei if anyone wants it
I am doing some tests with A. blazei on spent oyster sub. So far, so good.
I agree It was a very good read. Thank you. But it left me scratching my head after hearing what another cultivator said.
*Dusts off my book "The Mushroom Cultivator"
I will publish the growth parameters here... from the book on Agaricus bitorquis may be it will help us noobs like myself 
Edited by Shot.In.Orbit (01/03/11 02:21 PM)
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Tangich
Sharp as a cellphone photo
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 4,881
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Shot.In.Orbit]
#13724614 - 01/03/11 02:20 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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How do their "methods seem night and day from one another" to you? They are basically saying the same. Almost every mushroom will fruit straight from grains, agaricus just needs non-sterile casing to promote fruiting. Research on what substrates the mushroom you're trying to cultivate grows on in the wild, that is the prefered substrate for that species.
And they are not a good species for your first grow, wood-dwelling species are much easier.
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Shot.In.Orbit
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Tangich]
#13724639 - 01/03/11 02:25 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangich said:
How do their "methods seem night and day from one another"
Just seemed that way reading the two statements... One said "dont grow like cubes" The other said "does grow like cubes" Seem like it was totally opposite... Maybe it was the way I processed the information... Who knows... What I do know is that I have a better chance of success now that Mycelio and Workman said something on the subject.
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Mycelio
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Shot.In.Orbit]
#13724670 - 01/03/11 02:33 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well it depends on how you grow cubes. I once grew them on fermented straw plus coffee grounds, cased with verm. Lately I read lots about coir and verm. This wouldn't work for any Agaricus, while using straw and manure or straw and compost or grain and stuff will work, when you apply a pasteurized casing layer.
Carsten
Edited by Mycelio (01/03/11 02:43 PM)
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Shot.In.Orbit
Stranger Danger!
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Re: I want to grow Buttons/Portabella Mushrooms... [Re: Shot.In.Orbit]
#13724742 - 01/03/11 02:54 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Agaricus bitorquis:
Natural Habitat: Naturally found in lawns, gardens, roadsides, pastures, in enriched grounds and on hard packed soil. A temperate species, widely distributed. A. bitorquis fruits primarily in the spring and to a lesser degree in the fall.
Growth Parameters:
Mycelial Tupes: Rhizomorphic to liners; whitish to pale whitish in color.
Spawn medium: rye grain buffered with calcium carbonate
Fruiting substrate: Nitrogen enriched wheat straw and/or horse manure based compost balanced to 71-74% moisture content.
Method of preparation: Pasteurization
Spawn run:
RH 90 - 100%
Temp 75 - 80F (Thermal Death limits set at 93F)
Duration 2 weeks
CO2 5,000 - 10,000 ppm
FAE 0 per hour
Type of casing:
Case with 4 parts Peat Moss, 1 part Limestone Flour, 1/2 part Limestone Grit, and approximately 2 to 2 1/4 parts Water
Post Casing/Pre-pinning:
RH 90 - 100%
Temp 75 - 80F
Duration of Casing Run 10 - 12 Days
CO2 5,000 - 10,000 ppm
FAE 0 per hour
Primordia Formation:
RH 95 - 100%
Temp 70 - 75F
Lighting - None required
CO2 less than 2000ppm
FAE 2 - 4 per hour
Regular misting (Once or twice a day)
Cropping:
RH 85 - 92%
Temp 70 - 75F
CO2 less than 3000 ppm
FAE 2 - 4 per hour
Flush Interval: Every 8 - 9 days
Harvest Stage: Directly before partial veil stretches
*Taken from: "The Mushroom Cultivator" by Paul Stamets & J.S. Chilton
I Hope this helps someone in growing this mushroom...
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