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 Yrat
Hello
Registered: 11/08/07
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 Re: Islamic banking - Interest free  [Re: Shins]
#13765346 - 01/10/11 09:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Yeah so? is that all you can say? how many states use gold and silver to pay their debts?
soon....
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/virginia-creates-subcommittee-study-monetary-alternatives-case-terminal-fed-breakdown-consid
oh and here too
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50949183-76/gold-state-utah-coins.html.csp
the funny thing about paradigm shifts, and this fourth turning, is that the old guard is completely blind to what is happening and how they've been robbed.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Humility
Working on it
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,696
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: zappaisgod]
#13765611 - 01/10/11 10:23 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Yeah, it works. I've heard babbling bozos warning about apocalypse for about 40 years. It never comes.
Nothing that happens in high finance has ever had anything to do with me. I'm in construction and this is the third downturn in my life. I've made great money in the upturns. I think the volatility is far less than would exist under the anarchy you Paulbots espouse.
Dude all you have to do is look at a historical chart of silver and gold from 1792 to now; it's pretty clear what's happening.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Humility]
#13768417 - 01/11/11 01:53 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL. As I posted in another thread the price of gold since it was decoupled from the dollar and the price stabilized has lagged badly behind the DJIA. Silver? Feh. Any of you remember the Hunt brothers?
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 Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Yrat]
#13768441 - 01/11/11 01:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
the funny thing about paradigm shifts, and this fourth turning, is that the old guard is completely blind to what is happening and how they've been robbed.
The thing about paradigm shifts is that they tend to inaugurate some completely novel idea, not return to some antiquated system that was used by people who thought the sun orbited the earth.
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Yrat
Hello
Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,030
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: zappaisgod]
#13769255 - 01/11/11 04:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
LOL. As I posted in another thread the price of gold since it was decoupled from the dollar and the price stabilized has lagged badly behind the DJIA.
you are ignoring the cyclical nature of the dow:gold ratio. to say that the dow will continue to outperform gold because it did so for 20 years is disingenuous at best. there are times to invest in the djia, and times to put your capital back into real money (not paper)
this chart is outdated, and the ratio is now bouncing off support at about 8. it is heading back to around 2.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Yrat
Hello
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Posts: 2,030
Last seen: 31 minutes, 51 seconds
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Silversoul]
#13769294 - 01/11/11 04:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Yrat said:
the funny thing about paradigm shifts, and this fourth turning, is that the old guard is completely blind to what is happening and how they've been robbed.
The thing about paradigm shifts is that they tend to inaugurate some completely novel idea, not return to some antiquated system that was used by people who thought the sun orbited the earth.
over thousands of years of human societal evolution, gold was chosen by the markets as the most efficient and perfect form of money. if paper money filled this role in a better fashion, it would have taken over thousands of years ago when it was first tried. paper erodes society's capital wealth over time, while gold preserves it as it can not be printed from nothing. this is the reason this form of money has outlasted all the governments of human history so far, and will continue to do so well into the future. 40 years of fiat paper is nothing in the bigger picture.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Yrat]
#13769334 - 01/11/11 04:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gold stuck for so long because it benefited those in power. It benefits lenders over debtors, and allows greater accumulation of wealth in the hands of the few.
Besides, most money today isn't paper. It's digital. Paper money is just the stuff we use in the short-term between bank withdrawals.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 11 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Yrat]
#13769631 - 01/11/11 05:31 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Actually I had posted 30 years, which is all the data there is since the decoupling and stabilization of the price of gold. Stocks have been at least 4 times better (this takes into account a guess about dividends from stocks and the cost of maintaining a gold vault).
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13748264#13748264
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Yrat
Hello
Registered: 11/08/07
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: zappaisgod]
#13770385 - 01/11/11 07:58 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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you are still looking at a static point in time and generating your entire frame of reference to that point. take a look at the chart i posted. there are periods where gold outperforms the djia, and vice versa. it is a very cyclical pattern that, once recognized, can allow one to generate significant amounts of capital.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Yrat
Hello
Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,030
Last seen: 31 minutes, 51 seconds
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Silversoul]
#13770403 - 01/11/11 08:01 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Gold stuck for so long because it benefited those in power. It benefits lenders over debtors, and allows greater accumulation of wealth in the hands of the few.
Besides, most money today isn't paper. It's digital. Paper money is just the stuff we use in the short-term between bank withdrawals.
actually, gold as money has stuck around so long because the various rulers throughout history were unable to print more of it. it filled the role of money for the people perfectly by allowing for a static, stable money supply.
i would argue that a fiat system transfers much more wealth to the hands of an elite few through the insidious theft of inflation. digital money allows even more interference into the money supply. a healthy monetary system depends on a stable money supply. you do not have this when the bernanke can simply add zeros to the accounts of member banks. i use the term paper as a generality.
Edited by Yrat (01/11/11 08:14 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 11 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Yrat]
#13770571 - 01/11/11 08:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
you are still looking at a static point in time and generating your entire frame of reference to that point. take a look at the chart i posted. there are periods where gold outperforms the djia, and vice versa. it is a very cyclical pattern that, once recognized, can allow one to generate significant amounts of capital.
Bullshit. I looked at the whole time since gold was decoupled and had stabilized. Not a week, not a year not a decade, The entire period. If you want to speculate, speculate. Just don't jam my ass with bullshit that gold has always been a good investment. It hasn't and it may well not be now. How much leverage do you have in gold? Because if you're so balls deep you should be leveraged balls deep. You should be borrowing every nickel you can get and buying gold. My bet? You aren't.
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Yrat
Hello
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Last seen: 31 minutes, 51 seconds
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: zappaisgod]
#13770624 - 01/11/11 08:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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i never once claimed that gold has always been a good investment. nice strawman though. in fact, i displayed a chart that shows when the djia outperforms gold. but you refuse to acknowledge that gold has also outperformed the djia several times in the past 100 years.
besides, gold is not performing as an investment right now, but as an alternative to the world's fiat currencies. it is performing as money.
zappa, i am curious as to how you would explain the hoarding of gold by the world's central banks. why would they hoard such a material, in your eyes? what is your explanation for this?
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 11 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Islamic banking - Interest free [Re: Yrat]
#13779294 - 01/13/11 11:40 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gold is performing as money? Are you bringing gold to the supermarket? Do you pay your rent or mortgage or utility bills or anything else with gold?
There are periods where gold outperforms the DJIA. They are short. Like I said several times, if you want to speculate in gold go ahead. Knock yourself out.
I am not aware that the world's central banks are hoarding gold. But if they are wouldn't that indicate to you that they are artificially inflating the price of it? Like the Hunt brothers with silver a few decades back?
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