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 Poid
deBunker
 
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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 Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman?  [Re: Poid]
#13390170 - 10/26/10 02:45 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Frankly, I don't consider Zen to be Buddhism, because Bodhidharma was not a Buddha.
Zen - Wikipedia
Quote:
The emergence of Zen as a distinct school of Buddhism was first documented in China in the 7th century CE. From China, Zen spread south to Vietnam, and east to Korea and Japan.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390175 - 10/26/10 02:45 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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The common usage of "buddha" is to denote someone who has awakened or become enlightened, AFAIK. How are you defining it?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: deCypher]
#13390188 - 10/26/10 02:48 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
The common usage of "buddha" is to denote someone who has awakened or become enlightened, AFAIK. How are you defining it?
All I'm going to say is that I don't believe any Zen Master to be a Buddha. Whether you agree on that or not, a Buddha would have no reason to hit anyone with a stick. The Buddha would welcome the opportunity to suffer, because it would enhance his cultivation.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high. 
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390196 - 10/26/10 02:50 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
The common usage of "buddha" is to denote someone who has awakened or become enlightened, AFAIK. How are you defining it?
All I'm going to say is that I don't believe any Zen Master to be a Buddha.
Who cares what you think? You're wrong. 
Quote:
Computerism said:
Whether you agree on that or not, a Buddha would have no reason to hit anyone with a stick. The Buddha would welcome the opportunity to suffer, because it would enhance his cultivation.
A Buddha is a teacher, no? Can a Buddha not cause another being to suffer so that it may enhance its cultivation?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Poid]
#13390198 - 10/26/10 02:51 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Computerism said:
Frankly, I don't consider Zen to be Buddhism, because Bodhidharma was not a Buddha.
Zen - Wikipedia
Quote:
The emergence of Zen as a distinct school of Buddhism was first documented in China in the 7th century CE. From China, Zen spread south to Vietnam, and east to Korea and Japan.
LOL. You are really not good at finding sources are you? Movies. Wikipedia. Your library is vast.
I know Zen is believed to be Buddhism, and I believe that Zen did work for 5 Generations, as Bodhidharma said it would. However, those five generations are LONG past. An Arhat is someone who has reached a high level of attainment. A Buddha is someone who has reached perfect enlightenment. All too often, people are going around calling Arhats Buddhas when it's not the same at all.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390203 - 10/26/10 02:53 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can see a Buddha beating someone with a stick if doing so could shock the seeker out of normal states of awareness and into enlightenment. At any rate all our hypothetical pronouncements as to what a Buddha would or would not do are like the blind leading the blind as I doubt any of us have personally met one (and more to the point, given the diversity of answers in this thread itself, how would you tell?)
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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 deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,058
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: deCypher]
#13390211 - 10/26/10 02:54 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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the buddha you hit with a stick is not the true buddha
also hitting buddhas with sticks is probably awful karma 
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Poid]
#13390212 - 10/26/10 02:55 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
A Buddha is a teacher, no? Can a Buddha not cause another being to suffer so that it may enhance its cultivation?
A Buddha does not have to be a teacher. A Buddha can be a teacher if they so choose. The only Buddhas you are aware of are the ones who came to Earth to be teachers. (Shakyamuni, Jesus, etc.) More often, a Buddha is going to take no action, because even so much as one word from a Buddha's mouth could crumble mountains. If a Buddha is struck, he does not strike back, trying to outdo what was just done to him. He stops the process entirely by remaining still. If anything he'll laugh it off, or he'll look at you with compassion, because he'll know the pain you have inside that caused you to do that.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390217 - 10/26/10 02:55 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Computerism said:
Frankly, I don't consider Zen to be Buddhism, because Bodhidharma was not a Buddha.
Zen - Wikipedia
Quote:
The emergence of Zen as a distinct school of Buddhism was first documented in China in the 7th century CE. From China, Zen spread south to Vietnam, and east to Korea and Japan.
LOL. You are really not good at finding sources are you? Movies. Wikipedia. Your library is vast.
It's not hard to find sources. Not at all. There's nothing wrong with using Wikipedia as a source, or using a scene from a movie as an example of how any ordinary human can laugh at being punched in the face. I don't need to give you several examples from different books or published studies to demonstrate these points.
I don't know why you're trying to insult me or whatever, you must be butthurt or some shit. 
Quote:
Computerism said:
I know Zen is believed to be Buddhism, and I believe that Zen did work for 5 Generations, as Bodhidharma said it would. However, those five generations are LONG past. An Arhat is someone who has reached a high level of attainment. A Buddha is someone who has reached perfect enlightenment. All too often, people are going around calling Arhats Buddhas when it's not the same at all.
So a Zen Master is incapable of becoming enlightened? Got it.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: deff]
#13390227 - 10/26/10 02:57 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
the buddha you hit with a stick is not the true buddha
also hitting buddhas with sticks is probably awful karma
I was implying that the Buddha, not you, had the stick... Punching a Buddha in the face is one thing, but that'd be taking to new extremes.
New Qualification for Being a Buddha: being able to survive an hour of getting beaten by a tire iron
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390231 - 10/26/10 02:58 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
Poid said:
A Buddha is a teacher, no? Can a Buddha not cause another being to suffer so that it may enhance its cultivation?
A Buddha does not have to be a teacher.
But he can be, right? Got it.
Quote:
Computerism said:
More often, a Buddha is going to take no action, because even so much as one word from a Buddha's mouth could crumble mountains.
Of course that's true! 
Quote:
Computerism said:
If a Buddha is struck, he does not strike back, trying to outdo what was just done to him. He stops the process entirely by remaining still. If anything he'll laugh it off, or he'll look at you with compassion, because he'll know the pain you have inside that caused you to do that.
So what is there to prevent him from striking back out of compassion?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: deCypher]
#13390243 - 10/26/10 03:00 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
New Qualification for Being a Buddha: being able to survive an hour of getting beaten by a tire iron
The one & only.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,058
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 2 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Poid]
#13390246 - 10/26/10 03:01 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
deff said:
the buddha you hit with a stick is not the true buddha
Why not?
the buddha's true body is the dharmakaya; the reality body
it's like the diamond sutra:
who sees me in form
who seeks me sound
perverted are his footsteps upon the way
for he cannot perceive the tathagata [the buddha]
just a reminder that buddhas are entirely beyond characteristic, form, or concept (or so i hear) 
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: deff]
#13390255 - 10/26/10 03:02 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
just a reminder that buddhas are entirely beyond characteristic, form, or concept (or so i hear)
I once heard that OJ was innocent. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Poid]
#13390261 - 10/26/10 03:03 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
So a Zen Master is incapable of becoming enlightened? Got it.
This is actually what I believe.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Poid]
#13390266 - 10/26/10 03:04 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
So what is there to prevent him from striking back out of compassion?
Compassion.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390268 - 10/26/10 03:04 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
Poid said:
So a Zen Master is incapable of becoming enlightened? Got it.
This is actually what I believe.
Why? Just because Bodhidharma said that Zen would only work for five generations?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 7,058
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 2 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390274 - 10/26/10 03:05 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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not to discredit zen whatsoever, as it's still a great school - but i tend to agree that they use the term buddha too loosely (i could be wrong though)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: Computerism]
#13390284 - 10/26/10 03:06 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
Poid said:
So what is there to prevent him from striking back out of compassion?
Compassion.
So a Buddha can only express compassion in some ways, and does not or otherwise cannot express it in other ways?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Re: So what are the main differences between a Buddha and an ordinary man/woman? [Re: deCypher]
#13390288 - 10/26/10 03:08 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
New Qualification for Being a Buddha: being able to survive an hour of getting beaten by a tire iron
The tire iron would be shattered to dust were the Buddha in his true form rather than Earthly.Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
Poid said:
So a Zen Master is incapable of becoming enlightened? Got it.
This is actually what I believe.
Why? Just because Bodhidharma said that Zen would only work for five generations?
If I'm not going to believe Bodhidharma about his own system, who should I believe? Some guy in a temple with a stick who tells me he can't teach me anything?
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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