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Wanderer77
I don't know where to begin to comment here. I am not exactly versed on this site and rarely do I participate in chat rooms. I just want to add some information about Eckhart Tolle here. I have read over some of the discussions with much interest. I am delighted to see so much good common sense at work! For much of these suspicions are right on target.
I have known Eckhart since the fall of 1993. I met him through mutual friends back in England. At the time, Eckhart was a nobody. But a nice man and extremely intelligent. He lived very modestly after moving from London to Glastonbury (where I met him) and he was just the nicest person. He went by this name way back then. As far as his real name goes, it is Ulrich and he changed it after that life-altering experience he had--during the many years that went by where he started to study spiritual thinkers like Meister Eckhart. I think he changed his name because he was drawn to that teacher. And he also wanted to break from the former, unhappy person he was.

As far as speculation about his past, he did attend Cambridge as a PhD candidate in Comparative Lit. His emphasis was in Latin American Literature. (we later reconnected when he came to Northern California where I got to know him much better). His father lived (now deceased) in Mallorca. His mother lived (also now deceased) in the Black Forest--in Baden Baden. He went to see them every year at Christmas. His dad was a real character--a free-thinker, a former journalist,leaving Germany after he divorced Eckhart's mother when Eckhart was about 12 or so.

Eckhart is a very emotional and complicated person. Believe me, I knew a whole different side to him. Kind, thoughtful, and very sincere in his rich interest and devotion to spirituality. I recall, at a mutual friend's, he and I ended up having about a five hour conversation on everything from Latin American fiction writers to various mystics and eclectic thinkers. That conversation flew by. He is a very engaging, humorous and social person and it came as a surprise because normally, he seems so reticent and shy. Anyway--I remember when he was writing his first book. We were talking on the phone and he told me that he started writing this book--all in long-hand, mind you. We continued to have a very pleasant friendship and a year or so later, he ended up moving to Vancouver, BC because it was difficult for him to emigrate to the U.S. He had no relatives here, and no real external purpose for coming here. He just wanted to try out the "new world". Again, he was such a pleasure to be around in those days. We also kept in touch when he moved north to Canada. He was funny, he was a joy to talk to-- even on the phone.

To make a long story short--Tolle started out very modestly. Truly. This woman he met in a small class he was giving to business people in downtown Vancouver ended up speaking with him here and there after class and one day, Tolle asked if she would read his book--which was still in manuscript form. She did and later he asked her if she ever thought about the publishing business before. She considered what he said, and they pooled money together ( he owned a piece of property in London and I remember him going back to London at some point, so he could have some $ to live!!) (He never really lived on park benches, by the way. But he did drop out of that graduate program and meandered--with not a lot in the till so to speak.)

Once this woman brought out his first book, things slowly picked up. Tolle made as many appearances at every Canadian bookstore he could. He very gradually achieved his success. We kept in touch and always, he was happy to get together with me when he was in this area in the early days of his success.

Things changed. Without saying too much about myself, I too, am a writer, but I am not in his field. I am a fiction writer. Though Eckhart and I shared interest in things spiritual and he being a former student of literature, we had these things in common. But I would disagree (and still do) with my old friend on many things. Not that I outright told him this, but I never thought highly of the New Age/ Feel Good genre. I am not a fan of these books, although, I do think there are some exceptions and I absolutely loved his first book, the Power of Now. And I still think it's his best. I also think Eckhart is gifted in his talks. Some of them are amazingly brilliant. But I have to say the last time I heard my friend was several years ago before things got to where they are today!

Here it is: My old friend has become obsessed with his own success and I need to say, monstrously so. He has shown a side to me that scares me. He is determined to get as far up the mountain (exceeding his competitors like Deepak Chopra, Gary Zukov, all those other souls out there that crank out these books!) as he can go. I am afraid for him and a little afraid of him. He is no longer recognizable to me. Some say this is not unusual for these "guru" types. That sooner or later, things come tumbling down, thanks to a lot of hubris and just ego-overkill. That's right. Ego-overkill. Tolle--and I noticed this many years ago--we were out one day and ended up walking into a bookstore where Tolle knew the guy behind the counter--I busied myself browsing the books, but Tolle came off with an arrogance and know-it-all-ness that surprised me. I had never seen this side of him before--but I blew it off and didn't give it a lot of thought as he rarely acted this way with me. ( I am a woman, by the way.). Now it seems Tolle is all ego. And yes, it is horrendously ironic how he has made the ego anathema, when he has become an ego-maniac himself. I am sad to see it all unfold the way it has.

Sadly, being a true friend, a real friend, was not as important to Tolle as his voracious ambition. Let me tell you something , if I could, in my own modest experience at being human myself, Tolle is very unhealed. Some have speculated about his past relationships. I know of a woman in London; I believe he lived with her, but this was when he was in his 20's. I do believe he had that spiritual experience. That is true, but the weird thing is, it didn't really change the core person. It seems that Eckhart was one of those "know it all" students. He is extremely smart, and that is the problem. Smart and arrogant, if given the ground on which to become so. Know what I mean? When he was outside that academic milieu of a school like Cambridge, he was a nobody--and it was probably better for him. Let me put it to you this way: Hitler could have a spiritual experience, but would his nature really change?

I realize that sounds like a strange question. And normally, people will assume that the person having these beautiful spiritual experiences is a good person, but you know what? It's not necessarily so. And I know this from so many years of knowing Eckhart. But I also know this about other spiritual teachers and their dark sides and I am sure many of you out there know a bit about this, too. For example, Krishnamurti could be very curt with people, especially young people. But also, there's a book that was written by the daughter of a woman who was Krishnamurti's secret mistress for many years and whom he treated abusively, punitively. And there are people who will refuse to believe this and I am sure there are those who will not want to see the truth about my old friend, Eckhart.

But if I could continue--about this aspect of him being unhealed. In all my years being alive I have come to see that there is a huge discrepancy between this "spirituality" so many seem to be seeking and unhealed inner emotional issues. It's strange. But the two shall never meet or mix. This seems to be very true about people no matter their spiritual path. And it's true about Tolle. He had a very complex relationship with his mother. His father was a much better parent to him. But his mother was another story. There were times when he spilled his emotions out to me, and it saddens me because he's really a very lonely person. An extremely, and I want to say, dangerously isolated individual, who has become worse, far worse since his fame.

Eckhart tells the public that this woman Kim Eng is his "partner". She's not. She is a more like a pupil/disciple. There is no relationship there except this "arrangement". She has been with him for many years, as an assistant and contact person for his trips and talks and in exchange, he has shown her the ropes and now she goes out and does these talks and seminars. It's odd, but Eckhart doesn't like women, men, anyone, really. Not enough to shack up with! He is afraid, though, of woman coming after him. And I really know about this. I am not just making it up. He has made some kind of arrangement with Eng, an agreement of sorts so he could feel comfortable on a pubic level.

He did seem to have an interest in me back in the early days...but nothing ever came of it. But it was very sweet and nice. Until fame got the better of him and he showed me that he was not going to do anything for anyone unless it benefits himself. This is all I can say.

I think, though, the unhealed issues in him are at the root of what motivates him in what has become a monstrously unfathomable ambition. ("Napoleon Complex", anyone?) Frankly, he's a homely fellow. He looks like "Despereaux the Mouse". He's a little guy, in a little body, with stooped shoulders that no woman would bat an eyelash at back in the old days. Yes, he was nice friend, but I had no interest in him otherwise and I think he had a lifetime of that. He was forty-five when I met him.

The heart is a lonely hunter, "spiritual teachers" notwithstanding. Ya know?

Anyone remember the "man behind the green curtain"?

As in: "I am Oz. And I am the all -powerful, Oz! No one dare go against the all-powerful Oz! Now don't pay attention to that little man behind the green curtain!""

Of course, we all know what happened next.

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deff said:
if the teachings are 100% original to the teacher then i'd agree

but if the teachings are old - someone can be great at memorizing them and explaining them without following them themselves (and still benefit others)

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I don't think y'all really understand what kind of following Tolle really has. Some people follow this dude like jesus, spend tons of $$ on his books, lectures, etc because they believe in him.

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And thats his fault ?
So jesus , himself is to blame for people being fanatic about it christianity ?


" But don't blame me when lil' Eric jumps off of the terrace
You shoulda been watchin him - apparently you ain't parents "
~ Eminem


And that link you posted
eckhart made him a zombie ?

NO !
he made himself a zombie , because he's  ill equipped emotionally and intellectually to fully grasp the meaning of what eckhart actually talks about and in turn, unable to integrate this distorted understanding into his life without experiencing bad side effects.
His ideas are powerful because as you take them in , you expose yourself - to yourself.
The fact that he started selling lots of books and making millions will inevitably lead to the wrong kind of people indulging in the material.

and you know what..
if you actually had something factual and negative about him  instead of some stupid kids whining and an aggravated bitches hate mongering , i'd prolly back off and let the discussion go about its way.
But this is ignorant bullshit right here and i gotta call it as i see it.

you see my sig down there ?
feel no fear and die trying to fly.

There are people on this forum that come to me for guidance , to vent or simply to have a talk with someone they feel could relate to them.
So i'd be the bad guy if one of them jumped off the roof tomorrow because they didn't understand the metaphor ?

People are likely to create cults surrounding just about any kind of interesting idea.
The matrix movie..one of my favorite movies..
Do you know how many people literally LOST THEIR MINDS before even seeing part 2 and 3 ?

hilarious..
It is exactly the kind of attitude you are displaying here , that festers the minds of these TONE DEF people looking for that shiny, white, bright music to save them from their miserable lives...and  they won't think twice to blame the fuckin piper when their retarded dancing gets unbearable.

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It's very plain that you have issues with women

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I deal with you just fine

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Some say this is not unusual for these "guru" types. That sooner or later, things come tumbling down, thanks to a lot of hubris and just ego-overkill. That's right. Ego-overkill. Tolle--and I noticed this many years ago--we were out one day and ended up walking into a bookstore where Tolle knew the guy behind the counter--I busied myself browsing the books, but Tolle came off with an arrogance and know-it-all-ness that surprised me. I had never seen this side of him before--but I blew it off and didn't give it a lot of thought as he rarely acted this way with me. ( I am a woman, by the way.). Now it seems Tolle is all ego. And yes, it is horrendously ironic how he has made the ego anathema, when he has become an ego-maniac himself. I am sad to see it all unfold the way it has.

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Some have speculated about his past relationships. I know of a woman in London; I believe he lived with her, but this was when he was in his 20's. I do believe he had that spiritual experience...

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...Without saying too much about myself...

...Sadly, being a true friend, a real friend, was not as important to Tolle...

...An extremely, and I want to say, dangerously isolated individual...

...It's odd, but Eckhart doesn't like women, men, anyone, really. Not enough to shack up with! He is afraid, though, of woman coming after him. And I really know about this. I am not just making it up...

...He did seem to have an interest in me back in the early days...but nothing ever came of it. But it was very sweet and nice. Until fame got the better of him and he showed me that he was not going to do anything...

...but I had no interest in him...

...The heart is a lonely hunter...Ya know?

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The Chronic said:

If Eckhart is a true master or whatever you wanna call it, then he is only a mirror, all this arrogance & stuff shes saying about him, is her own crap shes projecting onto him, thats why shes having trouble pinpointing exactly what it is shes doesn't like about him.

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The Chronic said:

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Some say this is not unusual for these "guru" types. That sooner or later, things come tumbling down, thanks to a lot of hubris and just ego-overkill. That's right. Ego-overkill. Tolle--and I noticed this many years ago--we were out one day and ended up walking into a bookstore where Tolle knew the guy behind the counter--I busied myself browsing the books, but Tolle came off with an arrogance and know-it-all-ness that surprised me. I had never seen this side of him before--but I blew it off and didn't give it a lot of thought as he rarely acted this way with me. ( I am a woman, by the way.). Now it seems Tolle is all ego. And yes, it is horrendously ironic how he has made the ego anathema, when he has become an ego-maniac himself. I am sad to see it all unfold the way it has.

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Some have speculated about his past relationships. I know of a woman in London; I believe he lived with her, but this was when he was in his 20's. I do believe he had that spiritual experience...

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She says these things like shes digging some dirt on him, but she doesn't actually quote anything about what he said or did, she references some woman in london & doesn't even go into the story, she doesn't mention what he said in that store that made her feel like he was so arrogant.

If Eckhart is a true master or whatever you wanna call it, then he is only a mirror, all this arrogance & stuff shes saying about him, is her own crap shes projecting onto him, thats why shes having trouble pinpointing exactly what it is shes doesn't like about him.

I don't even feel Eckhart that much, but this is ridiculous imo, she doesn't name one thing he actually did that was so bad, just speculates about him

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Nunbuh_Chrubble said:

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The Chronic said:

If Eckhart is a true master or whatever you wanna call it, then he is only a mirror, all this arrogance & stuff shes saying about him, is her own crap shes projecting onto him, thats why shes having trouble pinpointing exactly what it is shes doesn't like about him.

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I can't find the quote buried in those other forums, but it went something like this:

The three ways that a guru (and his followers) deflects criticism.

1. "you just don't understand because you are on a lower spiritual level, etc..."
2. "you are just projecting your own insecurities onto me and so all these criticisms you bring up of me are actually criticisms of yourself..."
3. "I'm not abusing you, this is just 'expedient means' or 'crazy wisdom'. You see, I'm actually purifying your karma by causing you this pain and suffering..."

It always comes back to deflecting the criticisms of the guru or the group and putting it back onto the person doing the criticizing.

Look, I'll grant you this, the lady doesn't reveal any horrifically shocking secrets. But I think that it's an interesting perspective from a person who claims to have been very close with Tolle. Maybe I made my title of my thread more provocative sounding than was warranted by the actual content. But I still think that it's important to realize the human dimension of the guru and the potential for power, fame, and money to corrupt.

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Kickle said:
I have issues with women
Got no shame in it either. My mother and I had a rocky relationship.

Half the time I'm not sure my girlfriend is real. But at least I somehow picked a good one, her personality type is defined by loyalty and protection. It comes through when I stop being blinded by myself. I see how much aid she is providing without me even knowing it at the time. Same for ET. While I liked his first book it was easy to see he was all about making money off the other books. He blew his wad on that first book and should have left it there.

My mother told me that her primary prayer for me and my brother was that we would find good mates. I do think it had something to do with my outcome, because I am a blind fool with women. Sex appeal first, actual person second

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You're in the club dude.  Whenever I find a good psychological match the sexual appeal isn't there and vice versa.  I've had my share of disasters in the name of a few good months of fucking. I'm over it. I haven't been interested in looking around for a long time.  Maybe it's just that at my age I have less testosterone. It's not like I'm a whole lot smarter. Still I know now that it's a game and a lie to make babies and so I'm at least not sucked in blind anymore.

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Icelander said:

I think you should judge the teacher as well as the teachings. The teacher is supposed to be the embodiment of what they teach, not just some person who has lots of good advice that they can't even follow themselves.


I agree with this.  If the teacher can't act on his own teaching then he's a fraud or the teachings are unusable.

Let's face it, all these new teachers are just rehashing the old teachings. Only science seems to be coming up with something new. I'm not saying the teachings are wrong or that science is better. I'm just pointing that out.

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Icelander said:
Run away.

If you have a baby in this world I'll lose the last tiny shred of respect I had left for you.

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Icelander said:
Run away.

If you have a baby in this world I'll lose the last tiny shred of respect I had left for you.

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MOTH said:

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Icelander said:
Run away.

If you have a baby in this world I'll lose the last tiny shred of respect I had left for you.

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I have a fear of all the dumb people controlling the future of human evolution because all the intelligent people don't want to breed.  Idiocracy.

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c0sm0nautt said:

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Icelander said:
Run away.

If you have a baby in this world I'll lose the last tiny shred of respect I had left for you.

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I'm happy I was born, and maybe I want to bring a child into this world in the future. I don't see anything wrong with that.

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Kickle said:
sure. Not my approach of choice.

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jivJaN said:

you never responded to me and i put lots of time and anger into that post.
i want it back now.
feed me.

i criticized you and you did one of the worst  deflections possible.
ignored me. you  ignored the points i make and continued rambling about the  horse i already killed.

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jivJaN said:
Have you even read his books ?
Have you listened to his talks ?

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I don't think y'all really understand what kind of following Tolle really has. Some people follow this dude like jesus, spend tons of $$ on his books, lectures, etc because they believe in him.

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And thats his fault ?
So jesus , himself is to blame for people being fanatic about it christianity ?


" But don't blame me when lil' Eric jumps off of the terrace
You shoulda been watchin him - apparently you ain't parents "
~ Eminem


And that link you posted
eckhart made him a zombie ?

NO !
he made himself a zombie , because he's  ill equipped emotionally and intellectually to fully grasp the meaning of what eckhart actually talks about and in turn, unable to integrate this distorted understanding into his life without experiencing bad side effects.
His ideas are powerful because as you take them in , you expose yourself - to yourself.
The fact that he started selling lots of books and making millions will inevitably lead to the wrong kind of people indulging in the material.

and you know what..
if you actually had something factual and negative about him  instead of some stupid kids whining and an aggravated bitches hate mongering , i'd prolly back off and let the discussion go about its way.
But this is ignorant bullshit right here and i gotta call it as i see it.

you see my sig down there ?
feel no fear and die trying to fly.

There are people on this forum that come to me for guidance , to vent or simply to have a talk with someone they feel could relate to them.
So i'd be the bad guy if one of them jumped off the roof tomorrow because they didn't understand the metaphor ?

People are likely to create cults surrounding just about any kind of interesting idea.
The matrix movie..one of my favorite movies..
Do you know how many people literally LOST THEIR MINDS before even seeing part 2 and 3 ?

hilarious..
It is exactly the kind of attitude you are displaying here , that festers the minds of these TONE DEF people looking for that shiny, white, bright music to save them from their miserable lives...and  they won't think twice to blame the fuckin piper when their retarded dancing gets unbearable.

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Cool story, bro.

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c0sm0nautt said:
Mostly every parent says having child is the best thing that ever happened to them.

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"Parents experience lower levels of emotional well-being, less frequent positive emotions and more frequent negative emotions than their childless peers," says Florida State University's Robin Simon, a sociology professor who's conducted several recent parenting studies, the most thorough of which came out in 2005 and looked at data gathered from 13,000 Americans by the National Survey of Families and Households.

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http://www.newsweek.com/2008/06/28/having-kids-makes-you-happy.html

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Kickle said:
I'm all about the having the choice, but I know what mine would be.

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I do too.

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Cool story, bro.

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I'll set it back on track

It's clear this girl is ticked off because she didn't get the kind of attention from Tolle that she wanted. What people often can not take is losing someone's attention when they are themselves attached to that person.

It's like for a long time you've been watching your favorite shows on television and then one day the television says "sorry I have nothing to show you anymore" and just goes off every time you try to turn it on. There's just no one there anymore to react to your desperate need for attention/entertainment/whatever.

What do you do? You go to a website and write a rant about what an arrogant ego maniac it has become because it's not showing you your favorite shows anymore.

"He's moved on to bigger things and doesn't have the time for me anymore, he doesn't think I'm smart enough...how arrogant! He doesn't even like women, not enough to get attached them to anyhow. He doesn't like anyone anymore. He used to be so lonely and needy and I liked him a lot back then because we would spend hours talking together and we had something. But now he's just so cold and distant and won't return my calls...besides he's ugly and I never wanted him anyway, not like that..."

Anyone see the picture?

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Thank you.

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Kickle said:
23 a month ago.

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i'm 23 too... seems like a lot of us are around the same age

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jivJaN said:
watch out chronic or ice da shrink might think you have beef with women too.

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I do, selfish goldigging slutbags the lot of em, always ready to leave you for a bigger bank account or bigger dick

Really though women are amazing creatures

Im one of the lucky ones, my mommy loved me so i'm capable of loving women

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jivJaN said:
23
And you've been with this girl for 4 years ?
Don't you want to experience other women ?

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The Chronic said:
nice poem, raw

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Glad to see you appreciate my favorite Poet.

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leery11 said:


tolles teachings are fairly okay but they can , i can see how , they can make you a zombie, you aren't movin gor doing tai chi you are encouraged to sit forever and not get up , and to not think, not to use a mantra or even to pray or to have a goal
and so a nihilsit might act like that instead of , you know, getting drunk or addicted or hurtin gthemselves, and then go total zombie in a while because they are doing it to try to cope with a tremendous huge issue

IT WORKS, but it is also ,  i would not say the best or most healthy way to have spiritual healing, i would say its very very very very very slow ,

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Nunbuh_Chrubble said:

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The Chronic said:

If Eckhart is a true master or whatever you wanna call it, then he is only a mirror, all this arrogance & stuff shes saying about him, is her own crap shes projecting onto him, thats why shes having trouble pinpointing exactly what it is shes doesn't like about him.

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I can't find the quote buried in those other forums, but it went something like this:

The three ways that a guru (and his followers) deflects criticism.

1. "you just don't understand because you are on a lower spiritual level, etc..."
2. "you are just projecting your own insecurities onto me and so all these criticisms you bring up of me are actually criticisms of yourself..."
3. "I'm not abusing you, this is just 'expedient means' or 'crazy wisdom'. You see, I'm actually purifying your karma by causing you this pain and suffering..."

It always comes back to deflecting the criticisms of the guru or the group and putting it back onto the person doing the criticizing.

Look, I'll grant you this, the lady doesn't reveal any horrifically shocking secrets. But I think that it's an interesting perspective from a person who claims to have been very close with Tolle. Maybe I made my title of my thread more provocative sounding than was warranted by the actual content. But I still think that it's important to realize the human dimension of the guru and the potential for power, fame, and money to corrupt.

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