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 johnm214
 
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,585
Loc: Americas
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 Re: Why I Hate Republicans  [Re: jimbotron]
#13322017 - 10/11/10 07:12 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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jimbotron said:
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johnm214 said:
From what I recall, Gore sued
Busy studying, will respond to all of your points eventually, but I LOL'd at this one.
The case was Bush v. Gore. You're saying Al Gore brought the suit?
Do you not know the FIRST FUCKING THING about a lawsuit? Literally the FIRST GODDAMN THING? The goddamn name of the case? Here's a hint:
Brown vs. Board of Education
Was the Topeka Board suing some black parents, or vice versa? Shit, do you even know what Brown v. Board was about?
I thought everyone learned this stuff in like sixth grade. Jesus.
lol
a) you've got the wrong case, try Bush v. Palm Beach County Canvassing Board (whatever it was called when first filed, that's the US Supreme Court Caption) And yes, gore filed suit. Its in the opinion, read it sometime
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On November 14, in an action brought by Volusia County, and joined by the Palm Beach County Canvassing Board, Vice President Gore, and the Florida Democratic Party, the Florida Circuit Court ruled
BUSH v. PALM BEACH COUNTY CANVASSING BOARD ETAL., 531 U.S. 70, 74 (2000)
b) even the case you mention, Bush v Gore, was filed by Gore, albeit later Wrong on both accounts, gore sued in both instances
I haven't yet gone back to sixth grade as you suggested, but I think this is a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. Yes, cases are captioned with the plaintiff/appellant/petitioner first, but these refer to who filed the instant case, not the originating action. In the case of a Supreme Court case, the Petitioner will be captioned first regardless of who filed the originating action.
So  you loose. Twice
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Wow. No wonder you don't understand what I mean.
Indeed, but unfortunately for you, its not for the reason you think.
You've still not addressed the totality of my post however, so please do so if you maintain your position.
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Sorry but... wow. I was 15 years old when this took place and I understood what was going on back then. You've had 10 years to learn the very most basic fact about a pivotal moment in American history (not to mention the nomenclature of every single lawsuit filed for the past couple centuries) and you've completely failed.
Oops!
edit: formatting error fixed
Edited by johnm214 (10/11/10 09:16 PM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,585
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: jimbotron]
#13322048 - 10/11/10 07:19 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hm, you seem to have changed your post.
Unfortunately you fail once again even after realizing your breathless assessment of my ignorance was a bit off.
Bush v. Gore was filed after the first case had allready been resolved by the US Supreme Court and the Fl Supreme on remand. Much later. But, once again, Gore filed that suit as well.
Does this mean I pass your sixth grade legal studies course?
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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,314
Last seen: 17 minutes, 4 seconds
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: jimbotron]
#13322223 - 10/11/10 08:08 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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jimbotron said:
Also, hey, can anyone detect a pattern here?
WTC destroyed: "Nobody could have known. Wasn't Bush's fault."
No WMD: "Nobody could have known. Wasn't Bush's fault."
Katrina: "Nobody could have known. Wasn't Bush's fault."
Economic collapse: "Nobody could have known. Wasn't Bush's fault."
Screw Ben Franklin, there were two certainties during the Bush years: nobody knew anything, and Bush didn't do anything.
Katrina? Those idiots were told for years they were going to get wiped out by a hurricane. They embezzled the money
WMD? If you don't think he had them you are dumber than a foot
Economic collapse? He and his administration warned Congress. See Maxine Waters, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd who all said everything was copasetic
WTC? Nebulous intelligence is useless and he had barely been in office 8 months to set up real intel. If you want to slam a finger on that one look to Jamie Gorelick and her Clinton admin policy that prevented the FBI from talking to the CIA. As a matter of policy. And law.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 9 days
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: Therian]
#13322364 - 10/11/10 08:41 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Therian said:
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Annapurna1 said:
the repugs' idea of "small government" is a govt thats small enough to force a woman to have her rapists' baby....
I may actually agree with you in part on this, with a few minor objections though.
1. I honestly don't see what you have to worry about, as I am sure there is not a male on this whole freaking planet that would want to have consensual sex with, much less rape you.
2.If a woman really wants an abortion that badly they can always go on the internet and purchase RU-486 which will terminate their pregnancy. If they cannot afford this they can also purchase a turkey baster and a bottle of liquid plumber, I'm sure this route would entail less than an expenditure of ten US dollars with an identical outcome.
3. Perhaps the woman wasn't actually raped, but wore a sexy dress, and therefore was asking for it.
4. I do disagree with the obamacare as everyone will see as this fiasco unfolds, but I also disagree with the repubs false consternation towards the bill. All I've heard from those jackasses is either death panel, death panel, or more frequently the whole sacred bond between a caregiver and their patients. The gov has no place in the doctors office, the gov has no place dictating policy for doctors, the gov has no place telling the patient what is right for them as that is their sacred right to choose, free market, free choice, the gov has no right getting involved in a patients health care, bs.bs.bs.
WTF happened with Terry Schiavo? For fifteen years this vegetable with nothing more than a functioning brain stem was forced to stay alive. Bush himself even "got between the patient and the doctor" and signed legislation to have her kept alive. Can you imagine the tens of millions of dollars that were spent on this wasted endeavor? Where were the free choice repubs then. The only way she should have been kept alive is if the hospital were to have allowed paid conjugal visits to her by the local population, a la kill bill style.
What about Kevorkian? Who wouldn't allow those with terminal illness to die with dignity of their own accord? What gov would presume to know what is best for an individual and have the audacity to force one to live with excruciating pain, and ultimately die a protracted, undignified, painful death. Since when are our bodies the property of the US gov. When it comes to health care they feel they have the right to tell us how to live as well as in what manner we die. Its totally ridiculous.
Lets just pass legislation to prohibit experimentation performed with stem cells, who care if perhaps this may provide new therapies, treatments, and perhaps cures to disease. Lets take a valuable tool away from researches based simply on some obscure two thousand year old desert religion and tie the hands of American scientists. Yes, it is perfectly acceptable to judge current actions based on biblical standards, but in no way is it acceptable to judge biblical teaching based on contemporary standards. It's a nice hypocrisy all in congress like to delve in.
Also any republican that wants to make it more difficult for a woman to get an abortion, especially in the inner city is a fool.
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I cannot take the vast majority of republicans seriously. They are ignorant beyond belief. They are christian. They appose obvious social rights like gay marriage and the use of all illegal drugs. Many of them even don't believe in scientific facts like evolution
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What is it that is so difficult for you to understand? Since when is a marriage between sodomites an "obvious social right?" I find it ignorant beyond belief that the boy lovers can't grasp the simple scientific fact that those unions between individual of the same sex are nothing more than depraved abominations. I'm not speaking from a biblical perspective, but from an "obvious social" and biological standpoint. If the Dem's are so enlightened and intellectually superior then why is it so difficult for them to comprehend that marriage is between a man and woman? Why can they not see that most Americans don't agree with, condone, or want their blatant twisted homo behaviors anywhere in their general vicinity?
Wow, an abomination? How so? Many different species have been documented having gay sex. How is it an abomination? I agree it is a defect from an evolutionary standpoint, but if we are to run a country with this perspective then we should have iq tests and kill those who do not meet the standard.
The fact that you brought up a female deserving rape due to wearing a sexy dress threw away any respect I had for you. A woman may wear a sexy dress in order to attract a guy whom she finds attractive, and yet that means she is deserving of rape?
The way you speak of homosexuals is horrid. How is their behavior blatantly twisted? Explain this to me.
Also you bring up most americans not wanting this. Well guess what most americans used to want slavery. Is it right? No.
You sir are one of the types of people who i despise most in this world.
Also, this thread is kind of digressing from my original intentions. I don't want this to turn into a bash bush fest or anything of the sort. I want statistics and reliable sources backing up how a capitalist system works better than a socialist one.
Lastly, do not use the authoritarian "socialist" regimes as examples against socialism. Places like Norway are much closer to what socialism was meant to be. The authoritarian regimes pointed out did not even follow the progression of government types.
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Live your Life! 
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Darwin23
INFJ
Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 2,218
Loc: United States 
Last seen: 1 hour, 55 minutes
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: Shins]
#13322484 - 10/11/10 09:11 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Shins said:
in short capitalism rewards hard working people with merit.
I work 40 hours a week (and attend college full time)and make $12,000 a year. I am very hard working yet have nothing to show for it. Capitalism rewards people who have rich parents. Wealth is passed down in the capitalist society. As we lose regulation big businesses completely block anyone else from starting a business. For example if a business buys vertical and horizontal. Meaning it buys all the means of production to the means of distribution and then bought all the competitots it would be impossible to compete. This happened with a lot in the past. When the stock market crashed one man said he would buy every single person's stocks. That was when we were far more capitalist.
As for the main point. Republicans are stupid but so are Democrats. I am with you as I believe whole heartedly in socialism. I think both sides of the argument are 95% mindless idiots just repeating whatever propaganda they've been told. I think Bill Maher said it best though:
"Democrats start with a D because that's the grade they get. Just barely good enough for you to leave them in office. Republicans start with a R because 'Arr' is what pirates say before they rape and pillage you."
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,585
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: Darwin23]
#13326475 - 10/12/10 05:51 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Darwin23 said:
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Shins said:
in short capitalism rewards hard working people with merit.
I work 40 hours a week (and attend college full time)and make $12,000 a year. I am very hard working yet have nothing to show for it.
Minimum wage?
Either way, you allready said you attend college full time and as you've not complained about hunger, shelter, clothing, or disease, it sounds like you've got a few things to show for it. Plus 12,000 dollars
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Capitalism rewards people who have rich parents.
How so?
Sounds to me like you confuse capitalism with life.
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Wealth is passed down in the capitalist society.
I don't think its fair to call this capitalist- is this usually within the bounds of the term?
Regardless, why are you upset at capitalism if your only problem seems to rest with others having money... oh, I see
If your problem is that others have money, why don't you just advocate more complete estate confiscation?
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As we lose regulation big businesses completely block anyone else from starting a business.
Evidence please
Regulation encumbers buisness and almost always restricts consumer choice or recourse against buisness. In any case, regulationk is vague. What percisely do you want?
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For example if a business buys vertical and horizontal. Meaning it buys all the means of production to the means of distribution and then bought all the competitots it would be impossible to compete.
In that market yes, though if its possible to obtain all the materials its not a big market anyways and the prices and competition would allready be very unique relative to other markets.
The only situation I've seen crap like this occur in is with government regulation and intervention in the market.
Where does this happen in practice without government complicity restricting competition and giving special advantage to the monopoly?
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This happened with a lot in the past. When the stock market crashed one man said he would buy every single person's stocks. That was when we were far more capitalist.
huh?
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Republicans are stupid but so are Democrats. I am with you as I believe whole heartedly in socialism.
Well why don't you respond to the posts allready made critical of socialism? Your endorsement isn't really a topic for discussion.
Do you vote for the socialist partys? Or do you vote for the dems/reps you don't like?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,886
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: DieCommie]
#13327338 - 10/12/10 09:09 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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DieCommie said:
My liberal family doesn't believe in evolution, are against gay marriage, are for prohibition and are for high taxes. I think most liberals are that way. Its no wonder I lean right.
What exactly is liberal about them.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: Icelander]
#13327469 - 10/12/10 09:41 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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They are for prohibition and high taxes, they are against gun ownership, they vote for liberal candidates and they dont respect freedom. They prefer security to freedom. Also, they believe in all that Jesus crap like turn the other cheek which is very liberal. I think they are pretty typical liberals (that is, non-hippie liberals).
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 9,473
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: johnm214]
#13329111 - 10/13/10 04:09 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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johnm214 said:
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canid said:
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Its part and parcel of socialism.
no it's not. it's part and parcel to the autoritarian psudo-socialist states we have examples of.
facism in the guise of social decency does not detract from the merit of the actual devency, any more than - say - oppression in the guise of conservatism detracted from the merrits of the conservative philosophy.
the fact is that i am a socialist. this is a moral and ethical position. the difference between this and an authoritarian position is exactly that unlike a facist state; i recognize that my conviction - with very few exceptions - is worth no more than your conviction, or that of the next guy, and i am not telling you how to manage your capital or material posessions.
This is a naked decleration with no factual nor logical component. Parroting your opinion is not helpful
a) I don't care whether you're a socialist- not relevant.
b) Please respond to my question and challenge of your claims
c) Please back up your statements in the quoted reply.
i hardly care what your position on my response is, i'm sorry.
i may just as easily challenge you to furnish evidence that a socialist governmental system must necessitate a use of goons.
on the other hand, i don't argue for the merit of a socialist government; i merely state the nature of my values, which if you recall include a support for your right to think whatever you'd like of it.
this isn't argumentation, and my position isn't subject to your approval. take what you want of it or don't; it's that simple.
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Along a path I walk this night, clear to no other eyes than mine.
In faerie circles perchance I might, hope Elven honey bread to find.
Over stream and tangled root I leap, o'er bough and slumbering badger's keep.
Under hoary oak and willow I bound, to find such groves as can be found,
the sating mushrooms; spring's delight, as gifts from figures of the night.
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 9,473
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: canid]
#13329162 - 10/13/10 04:24 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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if i'm to address the topic of the thread directly then i'll respond to the OP:
the primary argument i would make in favor of capitalism is that greed is a tremendous motivator. if my observations are not off base, i have seldom seen people struggle so hard to excel as when they either have too few resources to sustain a livelihood at all, or when they condition themselves to expand their use of resources as fast as they can increase their incomes.
living at the edge of one's means encourages growth of both consumption and circulation of resources even without need for outside competition. for those who consider economic growth to be healthy, for whichever reasons, a lifestyle which perpetuates consumption seems to be viewed as a benefit.
my understanding of economics is juvenile, but meh.
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Along a path I walk this night, clear to no other eyes than mine.
In faerie circles perchance I might, hope Elven honey bread to find.
Over stream and tangled root I leap, o'er bough and slumbering badger's keep.
Under hoary oak and willow I bound, to find such groves as can be found,
the sating mushrooms; spring's delight, as gifts from figures of the night.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,585
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: canid]
#13329285 - 10/13/10 05:27 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
canid said:
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johnm214 said:
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canid said:
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Its part and parcel of socialism.
no it's not. it's part and parcel to the autoritarian psudo-socialist states we have examples of.
facism in the guise of social decency does not detract from the merit of the actual devency, any more than - say - oppression in the guise of conservatism detracted from the merrits of the conservative philosophy.
the fact is that i am a socialist. this is a moral and ethical position. the difference between this and an authoritarian position is exactly that unlike a facist state; i recognize that my conviction - with very few exceptions - is worth no more than your conviction, or that of the next guy, and i am not telling you how to manage your capital or material posessions.
This is a naked decleration with no factual nor logical component. Parroting your opinion is not helpful
a) I don't care whether you're a socialist- not relevant.
b) Please respond to my question and challenge of your claims
c) Please back up your statements in the quoted reply.
i hardly care what your position on my response is, i'm sorry.
a) my opinion is irrelevant, the argument is- address it
b) you've not justified your claims
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i may just as easily challenge you to furnish evidence that a socialist governmental system must necessitate a use of goons.
a) this has nothing to do with the veracity of your statement that they don't, don't shift the burden of proof for your claim to me- I could, and do for the sake of argument, concede the claims I've made and this would have no effect on the veracity of your statements nor your burden to show them correct
b) they require goons because socialism requires the seizure of wealth or person from people to provide for the government- including the government's distribution of power and wealth for the socialist programs requisite for a government to be called socialist. Without the goons the system would be voluntary in fact or in practice and would not be socialist. If you don't need goons go start your own socialist commune. No one's stopping you and no one cares, just leave the rest of us alone. If capital and merit really is all that separates the rich from the poor than you should have no problem in your commune
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on the other hand, i don't argue for the merit of a socialist government; i merely state the nature of my values
Your deceleration of faith in certain things is not on topic here. If you don't care to discuss the truth or veracity, merits or demerits (?) of your position, perhaps issue your future edicts in the magic-mystery forum
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this isn't argumentation, and my position isn't subject to your approval. take what you want of it or don't; it's that simple.
You don't grant these rights but I appreciate them nevertheless. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable in the magical mystery forum where you can ban those who disagree with your decrees?
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 9,473
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: johnm214]
#13329328 - 10/13/10 06:07 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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you made the assertion:
Quote:
Its part and parcel of socialism.
the burden of proof actually is yours.
i'm not challenging you to prove your statements, and i'm not obligated to prove, argue or justify mine. sorry.
i'm not claiming to grant any rights, i'm making an observation of a principle we might just as happily share both ways.
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Along a path I walk this night, clear to no other eyes than mine.
In faerie circles perchance I might, hope Elven honey bread to find.
Over stream and tangled root I leap, o'er bough and slumbering badger's keep.
Under hoary oak and willow I bound, to find such groves as can be found,
the sating mushrooms; spring's delight, as gifts from figures of the night.
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 9,473
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: johnm214]
#13329435 - 10/13/10 07:20 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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b) they require goons because socialism requires the seizure of wealth or person from people to provide for the government- including the government's distribution of power and wealth for the socialist programs requisite for a government to be called socialist.
this is also an assertion, and an opinionative one rather than a statement of fact.
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Without the goons the system would be voluntary in fact or in practice and would not be socialist. If you don't need goons go start your own socialist commune.
i believe i have already made a similar statement, but you are correct; my idealization of socialism is of a voluntary nature. i do in fact have a large cooperative network of people willing to voluntarily share their resources, in the form of many of my friends and much of my family.
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No one's stopping you and no one cares, just leave the rest of us alone.
no. this is an open forum and i'm free to speak as i please, within the bounds of the site's policy. you don't revoke that privelege any more than it is i who grant you the right to you views.
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If capital and merit really is all that separates the rich from the poor than you should have no problem in your commune
capital and merit is all that separates the rich from the poor? was that my assertion or are you interjecting yours?
to what merit are you referring? would you care to define your terms?
I would say that capital - if for the sake of this conversation we'll mean either ownership or otherwise permissive freedom to use any [read: some, e.g. any given quantity or valuation of] resources which have 1.) actual value to you [read: physical requirements sustaining healthy life functions] and/or 2.) actual or perceived value to others who have resources which have an actual value to you, and by merit we mean the skill to produce from such capital any capital of actual value, the opportunity to make exchange of such capital for capital of the actual value type then sure; the difference between the rich and the poor is in a situationally arbitrary weight of each of these metrics to 1, where 1 could be the value attributed to and amount of capital of real value needed to sustain healthy life functions.
is this what you had in mind, aside from anything i failed to think of?
also: vagina-boob.
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Along a path I walk this night, clear to no other eyes than mine.
In faerie circles perchance I might, hope Elven honey bread to find.
Over stream and tangled root I leap, o'er bough and slumbering badger's keep.
Under hoary oak and willow I bound, to find such groves as can be found,
the sating mushrooms; spring's delight, as gifts from figures of the night.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,585
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: canid]
#13329512 - 10/13/10 08:08 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
canid said:
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b) they require goons because socialism requires the seizure of wealth or person from people to provide for the government- including the government's distribution of power and wealth for the socialist programs requisite for a government to be called socialist.
this is also an assertion, and an opinionative one rather than a statement of fact.
No kidding. As I stated in a) it doesn't matter whether I or anyone else claimed anything- you still have the burden to demonstrate your claim which you've equivocated on several times and failed to do completely.
Regardless, I answered your question anyways as to why it requires goons, and you've again failed to respond to the challenges put to you or supply anything in support of your conclusory bare assertion.
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No one's stopping you and no one cares, just leave the rest of us alone.
no. this is an open forum and i'm free to speak as i please, within the bounds of the site's policy. you don't revoke that privelege any more than it is i who grant you the right to you views.
I appologize if you understood that to mean I wanted you to leave the forum. What I meant was that there was noone stopping socialists from living as such with others, voluntarily (something not posible in reverse). As such, there should be no need to seek violent compulsion for socialist aims unless you want what they have
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If capital and merit really is all that separates the rich from the poor than you should have no problem in your commune
capital and merit is all that separates the rich from the poor? was that my assertion or are you interjecting yours?
I am interjecting mine of course. This is a claim that lies at the center of socialism and is invoked all the time to explain why we need those goons we're talking about. Inconvieniantly however, the socialists seem to neglect the fact that in a capitalist society you are free to live in a socialist community voluntarily but in a socialist system you are not free to live in a capitalist community voluntarily.
Further, your own little microcosm should be all peace and harmony if it is meerly the capital which prohibits blissful socialism.
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to what merit are you referring? would you care to define your terms?
qualitative assessment of the ability to do stuff: merit
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I would say that capital - if for the sake of this conversation we'll mean either ownership or otherwise permissive freedom to use any [read: some, e.g. any given quantity or valuation of] resources which have 1.) actual value to you [read: physical requirements sustaining healthy life functions] and/or 2.) actual or perceived value to others who have resources which have an actual value to you, and by merit we mean the skill to produce from such capital any capital of actual value, the opportunity to make exchange of such capital for capital of the actual value type then sure; the difference between the rich and the poor is in a situationally arbitrary weight of each of these metrics to 1, where 1 could be the value attributed to and amount of capital of real value needed to sustain healthy life functions.
is this what you had in mind, aside from anything i failed to think of?
also: vagina-boob.
more or less, though your definition of merit is a bit constrained.
Couldn't a socialist community do fine in a capitalist state? If there isn't anything 'better' about those that are succeding except that they have capital, then this should aleviate that problem to the extent this premise is correct. What could be wrong with this if you don't have a desire to have goons take from others that have stuff you want?
Edited by johnm214 (10/13/10 08:13 AM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,585
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: canid]
#13329531 - 10/13/10 08:20 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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canid said:
you made the assertion:
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Its part and parcel of socialism.
the burden of proof actually is yours.
Yes, it is mine to justify that claim I made, and I have, however; this doesn't relieve you of your burden to demonstrate or concede your claims, which have been challenged.
If you doubt my justification for this statement (that goons are needed to take from others and force others to do things for the socialist state by violent compulsion, otherwise it is just a capitalist society with charity) then you may of course challenge it on the merits.
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i'm not challenging you to prove your statements, and i'm not obligated to prove, argue or justify mine. sorry.
You are obliged to demonstrate your statements' veracity regardless of whether or not I succesfully establish my own position. it is entirely unrelated.
Regardless, I have provided justification for my assertion. Now, you
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i'm making an observation of a principle we might just as happily share both ways.
If you don't want to discuss things that's your perogative, however; it then remains that your claim was unjustified. If your fine with that, this is of course your own affair.
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 9,473
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: johnm214]
#13329674 - 10/13/10 09:35 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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[edit: took my a while to type this; watching mindless crap on tv]
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it doesn't matter whether I or anyone else claimed anything- you still have the burden to demonstrate your claim
how's that work? i seem to be as free to presume or suppose as i am to form a conclusion by inductive or deductive reasoning. in the absence of evidence to the contrary, what we have here looks a little bit like a request. if so; i'll point out that i'm not the one proposing a socialist state. i have no basis to preclude the possibility of a purely voluntary socialist state, either one populated by those who don't mind an arrangement for whatever degree of communistic distribution of wealth [probably the less likely case, as long as i'm speculating] or one permissive of abstention from socialism. i still haven't proposed to devise one.
If you still want my answer to your question, i believe you should be able to
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Couldn't a socialist community do fine in a capitalist state?
i believe it could, and arguably does.
while 'the socialists' may seem to feel one way or forget one thing, and it may be an accurate observation of some, many or most of us, you have - insofar as you will take my word - at least one example of a socialist who does not feel that particular way. it is certainly true that my position on my socialist ideology is exactly that; idealist. It is an ethical or moral philosophy, but this became relevant exactly because it was earlier claimed that such a thing was a contradiction.
even if there where anything i could do about it i'd still remain satisfied that you have capitalism. for want of another way to put it; i want more people to agree with my economic and social views, not to have to.
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If there isn't anything 'better' about those that are succeding except that they have capital, then this should aleviate that problem to the extent this premise is correct.
i say both capital and merit, where i have defined merit as best i could think to at that moment, and in which definition i have included opportunity.
not all opportunity is created equal, as individuals are possessed of widely varying degrees of intelligence, aptitudes, physiological and psychological conditions, educations and interpersonal relationships. each of these things influences a person's potential for success. while a lack in one area or more may certainly be compensated to to varying extent by an excess elsewhere, it is certainly evident that some people lack to greater extents than others.
I can not find any basis to conclude that such individuals are all to be faulted for their failures to succeed, or that they should be allowed less than they need to live soundly because of it.
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Along a path I walk this night, clear to no other eyes than mine.
In faerie circles perchance I might, hope Elven honey bread to find.
Over stream and tangled root I leap, o'er bough and slumbering badger's keep.
Under hoary oak and willow I bound, to find such groves as can be found,
the sating mushrooms; spring's delight, as gifts from figures of the night.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,394
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: canid]
#13329740 - 10/13/10 10:02 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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> how's that work? i seem to be as free to presume or suppose as i am to form a conclusion
Nope, that isn't how it works. You can form an opinion, which is unsubstantiated, but a conclusion is based upon evidence. When you state a conclusion, the burden is upon you to provide the evidence you used to back the conclusion you made. The informal nature of this forums tends to blur the lines between the two. Often, people state an opinion as fact.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: Seuss]
#13329765 - 10/13/10 10:14 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Really, he can do whatever he wants. It's just that we don't have to take him seriously when he does it.
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 9,473
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: Seuss]
#13329776 - 10/13/10 10:21 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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in logical argumentation that is certainly true, insofar as it is is a proposition based on reasoning of a set of premises; however it is stated nowhere that debate in this forum be limited to one or more structured logical argumentation, only that it be intelligent.
it's up to you to tell me whether or not you feel my participation is intelligent, and is welcome here but given the ambiguous premise; it's still a position of opinion.
whether you or the rest of the staff welcome my posting here will determine whether i continue to do so; not whether my position is sound.
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Along a path I walk this night, clear to no other eyes than mine.
In faerie circles perchance I might, hope Elven honey bread to find.
Over stream and tangled root I leap, o'er bough and slumbering badger's keep.
Under hoary oak and willow I bound, to find such groves as can be found,
the sating mushrooms; spring's delight, as gifts from figures of the night.
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 9,473
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Why I Hate Republicans [Re: Redstorm]
#13329779 - 10/13/10 10:22 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Really, he can do whatever he wants. It's just that we don't have to take him seriously when he does it.
there is also that; though i don't recall asking to be taken seriously; only indirectly to be allowed by the staff to post by agreeing to their TOS and choosing to do so.
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Along a path I walk this night, clear to no other eyes than mine.
In faerie circles perchance I might, hope Elven honey bread to find.
Over stream and tangled root I leap, o'er bough and slumbering badger's keep.
Under hoary oak and willow I bound, to find such groves as can be found,
the sating mushrooms; spring's delight, as gifts from figures of the night.
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