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OfflineDocHoliday
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SS Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!!
    #13164223 - 09/08/10 11:22 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Shrooms.......

and my question is. Can anybody tell me what type those look most like to you. I only have 3 types of spores and I made a spore print a long time ago to use for this grow. Only problem is I wrote a big ass "?" on it lol.

The 3 types are. Koh Samui, Alacabenzi, and B+ (of course)
They dont look like B+ but I can't really remember what the Alacabenzi's looked like when I first grew em.



Pix!!!!


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:syringe:"There is no normal life, Wyatt, there's just life, ya live it." - Doc Holiday:syringe:



Edited by DocHoliday (09/08/10 01:11 PM)


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164228 - 09/08/10 11:23 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Definitely not Koh Samui...

Now its a 50/50


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Offlineveda_sticksS
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164237 - 09/08/10 11:26 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

ive grown koh samiu  and i cant tell from those pics.

The truth is though, for the most part you cant tell a strain just by looking at them when you grow from multispore.

the true defination of a strain is an isolated set of ginetics. once you start going back to spores, it starts becoming different from the isolated strain it game from.


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Offlinek00laidS
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: veda_sticks]
    #13164241 - 09/08/10 11:27 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

if those are spores. as you said. there are probly well over 50 strains per cake


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OfflineDocHoliday
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: veda_sticks]
    #13164382 - 09/08/10 12:16 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
once you start going back to spores, it starts becoming different from the isolated strain it game from.




wow. Thats pretty interesting, so your saying that even though I could have gotten it from a Koh Samui or B+ cap it's not going to be the same as the last time. Thats probably why those looked a lot different to me than my previous grows. They weren't as potent but they still did the trick. 3 grams was perfect still but nothing like the B+ i grew before that. Well I'm using of course another self made SS in my current grow, so I'll keep you guys updated on how those turn out. I'm actually pretty excited to see if the potency is going to be any better than my last batch. Peace Doc out


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Offlinefig
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164395 - 09/08/10 12:21 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

looks like alacabenzi to me dude. and (cubes are cubes except for PE):thumbup:


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164441 - 09/08/10 12:36 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

If you care about which commercial strain it is (for example you want to print and trade) then you should probably start off with a new, known syringe/print from a vendor.


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: andymc]
    #13164457 - 09/08/10 12:41 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I just wanted to get in before the lock.


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OfflineMad_Hatter2004
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164491 - 09/08/10 12:52 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DocHoliday said:
Shrooms.......

and my question is. Can anybody tell me what strain those look most like to you. I only have 3 types of spores and I made a spore print a long time ago to use for this grow. Only problem is I wrote a big ass "?" on it lol.

The 3 strains are. Koh Samui, Alacabenzi, and B+ (of course)
They dont look like B+ but I can't really remember what the Alacabenzi's looked like when I first grew em.



Pix!!!!






In before the  :lockdance:

OP the "strain" name is just that,a name.Let me break it down for ya...


Species: Psilocybe Cubensis,Psilocybe Azurescens,Panaeolus Cyanacens,etc.

Race/Variety: The name;B+,Golden Teacher,Nepal Chitwan,etc.

Strain: The true definition of a strain is when two spore's compatible mycelium meet and become dikaryotic mycelium.

There is no way to tell what race/variety a mushroom is by looking at pics and it doesn't really matter as it is all Psilocybe Cubensis...unless of course the race/variety is P.E.


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OfflineDocHoliday
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
    #13164532 - 09/08/10 01:06 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fig said:
looks like alacabenzi to me dude. and (cubes are cubes except for PE):thumbup:




Thanks man that's what I was thinking too. 

Quote:

Mad_Hatter2004 said:
OP the "strain" name is just that,a name.Let me break it down for ya...





I only asked what "you" think they are. Not what a name is.......so far only one person has made a suggestion. :confused:

P.S. I don't use random spores I either make a print or buy a SS. I really dont understand how I could get multiple strains from one syringe.


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164544 - 09/08/10 01:09 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

They look like my Golden Teachers, more or less.


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OfflineMad_Hatter2004
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164546 - 09/08/10 01:10 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DocHoliday said:
Quote:

fig said:
looks like alacabenzi to me dude. and (cubes are cubes except for PE):thumbup:




Thanks man that's what I was thinking too. 

Quote:

Mad_Hatter2004 said:
OP the "strain" name is just that,a name.Let me break it down for ya...





I only asked what "you" think they are. Not what a name is.......so far only one person has made a suggestion. :confused:

P.S. I don't use random spores I either make a print or buy a SS. I really dont understand how I could get multiple strains from one syringe.





:laugh2:

You're not a smartass,you're just haven't done your homework.

Any respected grower and the TC's will tell you the same thing I just told you.


GO DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10560039/fpart/1

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10626970


Quote:

Cervantes said:
Why 'Race', 'Variety 'and 'Subvariety' are Often More Accurate Terms Than 'Strain':
When discussing different types of cubes in general, let's use the words 'Race' or 'Variety' instead of the word 'Strain'. Cubes, like humans, come from all over the world... and like humans, there can be some variety from one cube patch to another. It is time for some racial tension here in the world of cubes. Most cubes are named after the place where their original wild spore specimen was discovered... so Race is a logical (if imperfect) word to use when describing these different types of cubes. At the very least, it is more accurate and far less confusing than the word 'Strain'.

In this thread, the word 'Strain' in quotation marks means something different than the word Strain without quotation marks. The word Strain refers to living dikaryotic mycelial tissue, the word 'Strain' refers to commercial spores.

The fungus known as Psilocibe Cubensis is a unique mushroom SPECIES. Shiitake is a unique mushroom species. Azures are their own species. Amanitas are a species... etc. It would be almost impossible and incredibly expensive to use two different fungus species and create a hybrid of the two. It'd be like successfully mating a human with a gorilla. However, a Caucasian human can effectively mate with an Asian human. Similarly, spores from one cube race can mate (or be mated) successfully with the spores of other cubensis races.

In the world of mycology, every single time a single spore's mycelium mates with another's to become dikaryotic, a unique Strain (no quotation marks) is created. Like baby humans, living cube Strains are each unique, and they tend to resemble their 'parents'. Each single viable spore print can produce thousands if not millions of unique strains. Most of these strains will produce mushrooms that look remarkably like the mushroom that produced the print from which they came.

The term 'Strain' is often used to describe the type of spores on a spore print or in a syringe filled with spores. When used in this context, the word 'Strain' is simply NOT ACCURATE (hence the 'Quotation marks'). It is a word used by vendors (who cater to hippies) in order to make magic shroom spores sound like different strains of marijuana. It is a word that suggests cubes are more varied from 'Strain' to 'Strain' than they actually are.

Marijuana is a plant, cubes are a fungus. Cubes come from SPORES, marijuana comes from SEEDS. Cubes breathe OXYGEN and produce CO2 as a byproduct (like animals). Marijuana, like all plants, breathes CO2 and produces OXYGEN.

The misuse of the word 'Strain' is widespread, and only encourages vendors to sell as many different 'Strains' as possible in spite of their obvious similarities. When people talk of commercial cube 'Strains' this leads to confusion and misinformation. Vendors (especially the shady ones) thrive on this misinformation.

An African, an Asian and a Caucasian are all undeniably human but there are obvious differences between each race. Even on a smaller scale... every single town (and sometimes neighborhood) in Great Britain features a slightly different dialect... and yet, there is still room for great diversity from one person to another in said towns... even though, when compared to a different race, most Brits tend to look alike.

Still, the world of genetics is often a funny thing, and sometimes spores will produce some surprisingly unique and unexpected strains... strains displaying recessive genetic traits and mutations that nobody could predict... again, just like humans.

These unique cubes can be selectively bred until these unique traits become common, even via multispore inoculation. This new, unique cube may be marketed as a new 'Strain' but it is really just a unique 'Variety' of cubensis spawned from its original race. Still, many vendors market each unique variety as a new 'Strain'. In general, every single commercially available cubensis 'RACE', is actually a domesticated VARIETY of the original specimen. Domesticated cubes contain intentionally limited genetics in order to increase the likelyhood of achieving the desired results, sort of like dog domestication and subsequent breeding.

Over time and multiple generations (spore to fruit to spore) a cubensis Variety can become genetically limited by inbreeding. This means results from multispore inoculation can become more consistent, and the likelihood of accidentally stumbling upon unique traits reduces. If a commercial cube's genetics become too limited, the inbreeding can produce undesired effects. In general, when it comes to life, too much inbreeding will eventually lead to problems.

Annother classification for different types of cubes is the 'Sub-variety'. For example, by using spores from each variety of cube, Workman crossed PF Albino (Probably a variety of the Matias Romero race) with Penis Envy (Probably a variety of an Amazonian or Columbian race) and produced the Albino Penis Envy. Albino Penis Envy is both a sub-variety of PF Albino and Penis Envy.

Since all this 'Variety' and 'Sub-Variety' talk can get very confusing, go ahead and use 'Race' if you prefer, even though it is not entirely accurate. It sure beats saying 'Strain'. There are racial differences between mushrooms, often due to natural selection based upon where they first grew... and sometimes varietal differences due to unnatural selection performed by mycologists.

Finally, there are different 'Brands' of cubes. A Sporeworks Brand syringe full of Penis Envy spores may have a slightly different ethnic diversity than a Ralphster Brand or Hawk's Eye Brand syringe of the same cube.

All of that said, vendors use the term 'Strain'... and n00bs learn the term from vendors. This incorrect term is SO widespread, it is even used in the same way by Paul Stamets. I'd love to use the proper terminology, and will do so from now on... but this will be an uphill battle. Most people recognize the incorrect term, and not the correct ones.

It seems the misuse of the word 'Strain' is only widespread in the world of magic mushrooms, but not in the rest of the mycological world. The fact that so many magic mycologists use incorrect terminology, further reduces our credibility in larger mycological circles. The misuse of this simple word can make our work seem illegitimate in the eyes of science.

Discuss:





I could sit here and pull up multiple quotes from RR and many other TC's saying the same thing,all day.


--------------------
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Edited by Mad_Hatter2004 (09/08/10 01:13 PM)


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OfflineDocHoliday
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
    #13164581 - 09/08/10 01:22 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Ahhhhh now that makes tons of sense. So they very well could have come from either three original types. Well I'm using another self made SS for this current grow. I'm super excited to see what these come out like.

and Mad_Hatter your right I haven't been doing my homework lately. Thanks for the help.


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:syringe:"There is no normal life, Wyatt, there's just life, ya live it." - Doc Holiday:syringe:



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OfflineMad_Hatter2004
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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164648 - 09/08/10 01:43 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

It's all good DocHoliday:thumbup: just do some homework and don't be so quick to bite someone when their actually trying to help you and instill a lil knowledge upon ya :wink:

And to answer this for you:

Quote:

DocHoliday said:
P.S. I don't use random spores I either make a print or buy a SS. I really dont understand how I could get multiple strains from one syringe.





Doesn't matter if it's spores from an unknown race/variety or a known race/variety,there are literally millions of spores in that print and the genetic diversity is so great amongst those spores.

The true definition of a strain as I have already told you is when two compatible spores mycelium meet and become dikaryotic mycelium.When you inoculate via MS (Multispore,which is any spore syringe or print,vendor or homemade) there are hundreds if not thousands of spores being aspired into the jar of substrate/spawn meaning there will be many sub-strains (usually one strain will be the dominant strain and take over the others...but I'll leave that for you to search and read about).

When you take a clone/tissue sample and put it to agar,more often then not you will find that that particular mushroom is made up of multiple sub-strains and in order to be able to work with just one strain,you have to do agar work and isolate a monoculture which requires scraping some spores (as few as possible) onto a plate of agar and allowing the spores to germinate and create mycelium,then you have to watch the jar and judge which sectors are worthy of making transfers.You transfer each individual sector to it's own respective new plate of agar and let these sectors grow out a little,then make more transfers from those plates to new plates and so forth until you have a monoculture.


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: DocHoliday]
    #13164660 - 09/08/10 01:45 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the informative links Hatter2004, I too have not been doing my homework.

I will definitely be doing alot more reading.

It's people like you that keep us on track.

:thumbup:


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: Valknut]
    #13164743 - 09/08/10 02:10 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

They look like cubes to me.
A friend of mine gave me spore prints from some GT's, and they looked NOTHING like the ones he grew, simply because my environmental parameters were different.
You can't tell by looking at the fruits. next time, label your shit so you know what's what.


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
    #13166569 - 09/08/10 07:39 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Hatter2004 said:
... isolate a monoculture which requires ... until you have a monoculture.




A small nitpick here madhatter, as I understand it monoculture is the wrong word for an isolate.  AFAIK it means something else, like in agriculture, when you grow the same crop on all your fields.  Isolate is the idea you're going for here, and it's the word the rest of us use for that concept.


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: andymc]
    #13166587 - 09/08/10 07:41 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

you isolate until you get a monoculture.

when you isolate you start to notice "Sectors" those are each a culture.

when you have an isolate you also have a monoculture


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: k00laid]
    #13166653 - 09/08/10 07:51 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
you isolate until you get a monoculture.




You isolate until you have an isolate.  You're the other guy who seems to be misusing this term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoculture:

Quote:


Monoculture is the agricultural practice of producing or growing one single crop over a wide area. It is widely used in modern industrial agriculture and its implementation has allowed for large harvests from minimal labor.




If the Wikipedia page is wrong we should fix it (it does say the term has other uses, though it doesn't mention fungal -etc- cultures).  When I have an isolated strain from petris, I label it an 'isolate'.  It's the term that I've seen used over and over again on this site.  Perhaps I'm wrong and monoculture is a synonym, but I don't see it anywhere in Stamets, for example.


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Re: Strain Questions and pix ------- SHROOMS!!! [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
    #13166709 - 09/08/10 07:58 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Doesn't matter if it's spores from an unknown race/variety or a known race/variety,there are literally millions of spores in that print and the genetic diversity is so great amongst those spores.




Just curious, but if the multi- spore came from an isolated sub-strain (such as one that was picked and cloned for its aggressive growth rate or prolific fruiting or this or that trait) Wouldn't those traits be expressed more frequently in the genetics of the spores that the isolate produced, meaning that the isolated traits would show up more frequently in mycelium and fruit bodies germinated from spores of the isolate? Take for example PF Classic and PF albino, same strain just isolated so that the recessive trait of albinism is predominant. Spore syringes of PF Classic may have the occasional albino, (or redspore print) but PF Albino mostly fruits white caps.


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