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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: What do you think enlightenment is?  [Re: Holoverse]
#12855887 - 07/06/10 12:51 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Holoverse said:
To Icelander,
I suggest reading The Spiritual Brain by Mario Beauregard
Or Where God Lives by Melvin Morse.
If you really need the scientific perspective on all this.
Both these books go into this, and what part of the brain is needed to be "shut off" to experience this "ego loss" or dissolution of sense of self.
The Right Parietal lobe is the spot where this occurs.
Shut down activity there, and you basically lose your body, and ego.
Its easily replicable in a lab, and/or with drugs.
These books get into the many experiments that have been done, with praying nuns, meditating monks, and regular people tripping balls.
Most people come out of such experience, with a highly changed view on life and reality. The studies even have shown how this experience has increased general happiness by up to 70%.
People also report being more aware of others feelings, and being less judgemental.
Now whether having this experience alone encompasses being enlightened, Id have to say no. Because Ive had it many times, and unfortunately I am still very far from what some would call enlightened. 
Id say enlightenment is the integration of this egoless self, into the everyday world. But Im not sure whether its actually possible.
Because your right parietal lobe has to be "on" to be able to walk, talk etc.....so experiencing "egolessness" while functioning in the world, would be an extremely hard brain state to uphold, if not close to impossible.
But.....on a heavy dose of shrooms, Ive walked around in that state.
Floating as an awareness, as opposed to walking as a human.
So I know the brain can get to that point, where the body can function, but bodily awareness is non-existent.
Like I said before though...
The real question is if its able to be upheld for longer than a few minutes at a time.
Good post, I'll try and check out those books. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: The Chronic]
#12855893 - 07/06/10 12:53 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
What do you think enlightenment is?
I think that its not anything to do with anyones thoughts about what they think it is < including those thoughts
To me enlightenment is like that sentence, erasing yourself as you go... being free as a bird, leaving no tracks in the sky
First you say it has nothing to do with thought and then you immediately tell us what you think it is.
Well done for completely missing the point 
Like i said its self erasing, so even the one doing the erasing, eventually gets erased
How do you know they get erased? Are you erased?
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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 g00ru
membrane shift
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 17,655
Loc: atlantis
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: Icelander]
#12855902 - 07/06/10 12:55 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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For me enlightenment is the self coming home to itself. The removal of contradictions in the psyche. Complete harmony with the stream of events.
Oh yeah and it's a stateless state beyond all concepts so nothing any of us says means shit 
THE CHICKEN SEEEEEES
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: Icelander]
#12855911 - 07/06/10 12:57 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just ordered The Spiritual Brain. I'll make a post on it when I'm done.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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TheWolf
Antechamber Of Mystery
Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 225
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12855926 - 07/06/10 01:03 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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The absence of arrogance, at the very least.
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QuQuPaPatl
Stranger
Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 8
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: TheWolf]
#12856071 - 07/06/10 01:39 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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it is an existential concept acquired in the lack of a definite context from which emanation of understanding is eliminated by the cognizance of one's own perpetual state of being.
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OutThisLife
Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1,286
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: QuQuPaPatl]
#12857054 - 07/06/10 05:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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This thread has gotten heated.
Lol, it's funny to see either side defend themselves considering they're both wrong and the correct way is in between.
We all know this, though.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12857132 - 07/06/10 05:36 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Good to know they're wrong and you're right and we all see it.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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OutThisLife
Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1,286
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: Icelander]
#12857172 - 07/06/10 05:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Good to know they're wrong and you're right and we all see it.
Didn't say that. Good response, though.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12857332 - 07/06/10 06:11 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Implied
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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OutThisLife
Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1,286
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: Icelander]
#12857392 - 07/06/10 06:21 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Implied
No. I implied that everyone was wrong.
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12857411 - 07/06/10 06:25 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
OutThisLife said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Implied
No. I implied that everyone was wrong.
i think you are wrong.
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  If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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OutThisLife
Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1,286
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: JackofSpades]
#12857498 - 07/06/10 06:41 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
Quote:
OutThisLife said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Implied
No. I implied that everyone was wrong.
i think you are wrong.
If I chose to take any side, I would be!
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12857515 - 07/06/10 06:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
OutThisLife said:
Quote:
JackofSpades said:
Quote:
OutThisLife said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Implied
No. I implied that everyone was wrong.
i think you are wrong.
If I chose to take any side, I would be!
not taking a side isn't correct.
enlightenment is a specific state of mind where a person escapes samsara no longer being subjected to death and re-birth and suffering all together
"enlightenment is a translation of the Pāli and Sanskrit word bodhi, which means a state of freedom from suffering, desire and ignorance, which are collectively known as saṃsāra[1]"
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12857522 - 07/06/10 06:45 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
OutThisLife said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Implied
No. I implied that everyone was wrong.
Except the middle way.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Holoverse
Abres Los Ojos
Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 330
Last seen: 10 days, 22 hours
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12857526 - 07/06/10 06:47 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
OutThisLife said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Implied
No. I implied that everyone was wrong.
You said,
"When the correct way is the middle"
So that IS implying that you know the correct way.
But I do agree with you though...the middle path is always right...lol
Dont TRY to be Tao.
Just be. That is Tao
--------------------
z -> z*z + c = GOD
“Your denial is beneath you, and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you.”
MUSHROOMS ARE IN SYMBIOTIC EVOLUTION WITH HUMANS.
JUST LIKE ORCHIDS MIMIC THE BEES THAT POLLINATE THEM, MUSHROOMS MIMIC VARIOUS HUMAN ANATOMY. THEY ARE OUR EVOLUTIONARY BIRTHRIGHT!!
     
Edited by Holoverse (07/06/10 06:47 PM)
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: Holoverse]
#12857530 - 07/06/10 06:47 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Holoverse said:
Quote:
OutThisLife said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Implied
No. I implied that everyone was wrong.
You said,
"When the correct way is the middle"
So that IS implying that you know the correct way.
But I do agree with you though...the middle path is always right...lol
Dont TRY to be Tao.
Just be, and Tao will follow
the middle way is how you get to enlightenment and not enlightenment itself
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: Holoverse]
#12857534 - 07/06/10 06:48 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm little Tao within Big Tao. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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OutThisLife
Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1,286
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: Icelander]
#12857564 - 07/06/10 06:54 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Looks like a conclusion was made.
What do we do now? I think we should invite a religious fanatic. Or even better, a fanatic atheist.
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!
Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: What do you think enlightenment is? [Re: OutThisLife]
#12857592 - 07/06/10 06:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Enlightenment is what ever the enlightened say it is. I opened the curtains and my living room was enlightened. I took LSD about 20 times in my life and still don't know what tripping means. Both LSD and astral travel seem to show that conciousness is purely a product of the spirit world. Meeting your twin soul when both of you are incarnate can be the most bizare spiritual experience any human can experience. You recognize that you share the same soul, but paradoxically, have separate minds and bodies. You can read each other's minds, but its scary to do this. You remember that you were together before this lifetime and may even remember previous lives together. You remember you both came from heaven or other blissful source of spirit energy.
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