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 M11
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 Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? 
#12828623 - 06/30/10 02:49 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey folks,
I just finished my test jars for my grain LC. I plan on using the LC later to inoculate 16 quarts of rye. Anyway, since I am using PF as my test jars, I am feeling an overwhelming sensation of nostalgia to return to the tek that got me started in this wonderful hobby.
I was planning on building a shotgun terranium, which will likely be about 14 x 24 x 12" or so. I am just going to use 6 cakes with a perlite depth of about 4-5 inches or so. Would it be worth while to install a cup of water and H2O2 with an aquarium pump and air stone that will run for 15 minutes maybe 8 times a day or so? Would that provide any FAE while maintaining a high RH?
I was thinking about this model with this airstone.
Pump
Airstone
What say you?
I did some automated stuff last year that work well. I made a SGFC type that was connected to a computer fan and a cool mist. Worked quite well, but I would rather do something simpler like the aquarium pump and air stone.
M
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 whitelight7
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12828632 - 06/30/10 02:53 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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First, don't make your LC's with colonized grain, use agar and it will have less chance of contam, but whatever works for ya.
Second, no- you don't need that with all the perlite.
Here's to nostalgia
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Staunch supporter of spontaneous generation
 
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M11
White Thumb
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: whitelight7]
#12828647 - 06/30/10 02:55 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Grain LCs are actually known for their superiority over sugar based LCs because of their resistance to contamination.
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M11
White Thumb
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12828710 - 06/30/10 03:11 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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And I am more curious about whether it will actually provide FAE without a loss in RH.
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YHWH
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12828853 - 06/30/10 03:39 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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The point of the SGFC is that you don't need the airpump. Air is pulled in through the holes in the bottom where the perlite is because of differences in pressure and the air is forced up through the perlite providing FAE and upping the humidity.
And yes, grain LC is superior
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: YHWH]
#12829040 - 06/30/10 04:12 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I totally understand that. But it would be cool if I could just leave the SGFC alone without manually misting and fanning.
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whitelight7
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12829075 - 06/30/10 04:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've tried air stones and never found any benefit with SGFC.
Maybe I'll have to try grain again, it never worked as well for me.
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: whitelight7]
#12829099 - 06/30/10 04:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, I might just KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid), but I would think attaching a cool mist via clear hose to the center bottom of the SGFC would work. All you would need would be a relatively thin screen to keep the perlite from falling into the hose and clogging it. I would probably bury it about an inch or so within the perlite.
Maybe I am just being ridiculous, but it sure is fun to brainstorm. I think I may try that. I don't see why it wouldn't work if you put it on every 6 hours or so for about 5 minutes.
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whitelight7
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12829419 - 06/30/10 05:28 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sounds like a lot of work for 6 cakes 
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rustycobwebs
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: whitelight7]
#12832010 - 07/01/10 01:00 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've heard that an aquarium pump doesn't move enough air to be beneficial in the average SGFC.
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...Or so i hear.
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Mad_Hatter2004
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: rustycobwebs]
#12832072 - 07/01/10 01:11 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's all about the size of the air pump.But there is no need for one in a shotgun FC...now if you were using a PMp this would be a different story.
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M11
White Thumb
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: whitelight7]
#12832077 - 07/01/10 01:12 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
whitelight7 said:
Sounds like a lot of work for 6 cakes
You call this work? 
I call it fun.
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Shea25
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12832107 - 07/01/10 01:16 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was planning on building a shotgun terranium, which will likely be about 14 x 24 x 12" or so. I am just going to use 6 cakes with a perlite depth of about 4-5 inches or so. Would it be worth while to install a cup of water and H2O2 with an aquarium pump and air stone that will run for 15 minutes maybe 8 times a day or so? Would that provide any FAE while maintaining a high RH?
If you are going to use a air pump then build a PMP, I find they outperform shotgun terrariums. Don't bother with air stones use bubbler bars. Make sure the pump can push alot of air don't cheap out and get a small pump. Their is no need for h2o2 as it would revert back into h2o in no time in a climate that is aerating it, and exposed to light.
6 cakes is worth it, as it can yeild you 2-3 oz
Edited by Shea25 (07/01/10 01:16 AM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12832515 - 07/01/10 02:36 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
M11 said:
I totally understand that. But it would be cool if I could just leave the SGFC alone without manually misting and fanning.
You don't necessarily need to fan, but you do need to mist. Your cakes are supposed to begin drying out, and then you mist to replace that moisture. This ebb and flow of substrate moisture content is a major pinning trigger, something that wasn't fully understood in the early days. Misting should be done by hand so you can use your eyeballs to know when and how much to mist.
RR
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12832595 - 07/01/10 03:07 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
M11 said:
I totally understand that. But it would be cool if I could just leave the SGFC alone without manually misting and fanning.
You don't necessarily need to fan, but you do need to mist. Your cakes are supposed to begin drying out, and then you mist to replace that moisture. This ebb and flow of substrate moisture content is a major pinning trigger, something that wasn't fully understood in the early days. Misting should be done by hand so you can use your eyeballs to know when and how much to mist.
RR
So if that is true, then would using the wax paper trick maybe for 12 hours and then not for 12 hours make a bulk grow pin better? Is that the trick?
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Shea25
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12832621 - 07/01/10 03:15 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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The trick and biggest pinning trigger is not get water to evaporate off the sub, but to also replenish it
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12833285 - 07/01/10 09:02 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shea25 said:
The trick and biggest pinning trigger is not get water to evaporate off the sub, but to also replenish it
I hope you meant to say "The trick and biggest pinning trigger is to get water to evaporate off the sub, and then to replenish it"
RR
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wygram
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12833390 - 07/01/10 09:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Shea25 said:
The trick and biggest pinning trigger is not get water to evaporate off the sub, but to also replenish it
I hope you meant to say "The trick and biggest pinning trigger is not to get water to evaporate off the sub, and then to replenish it"
RR
Do I get a prize if I fix it with two words instead of four?
"The trick and biggest pinning trigger is not only to get water to evaporate off the sub, but to also replenish it"
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Changing your mind is one of the best ways of finding out whether or not you still have one.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: wygram]
#12833393 - 07/01/10 09:48 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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No.
We get paid by the word around here, so I win. 
RR
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ruckusman
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12833630 - 07/01/10 11:26 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shea25 said:
The trick and biggest pinning trigger is not get water to evaporate off the sub, but to also replenish it
The trick and biggest pinning trigger is to get water to evaporate off the sub, and to also replenish it
Net change 0 words I win..
Awww Gawd I fell like Alan Harper playing scrabble...I lose!!! Dang
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SomeGuy
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12833668 - 07/01/10 11:39 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
I was planning on building a shotgun terranium, which will likely be about 14 x 24 x 12" or so. I am just going to use 6 cakes with a perlite depth of about 4-5 inches or so. Would it be worth while to install a cup of water and H2O2 with an aquarium pump and air stone that will run for 15 minutes maybe 8 times a day or so? Would that provide any FAE while maintaining a high RH?
If you are going to use a air pump then build a PMP, I find they outperform shotgun terrariums. Don't bother with air stones use bubbler bars. Make sure the pump can push alot of air don't cheap out and get a small pump. Their is no need for h2o2 as it would revert back into h2o in no time in a climate that is aerating it, and exposed to light.
6 cakes is worth it, as it can yeild you 2-3 oz
this, a pump will not help a sgfc at all, a diff set-up is used in a pmp, so either a new set-up or stick with the sg
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Shea25
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12834149 - 07/01/10 01:46 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Shea25 said:
The trick and biggest pinning trigger is not get water to evaporate off the sub, but to also replenish it
I hope you meant to say "The trick and biggest pinning trigger is to get water to evaporate off the sub, and then to replenish it"
RR
I did it was a typo,
I meant
The trick and biggest pinning trigger is to get water to evaporate off the sub, but to also replenish it
Edited by Shea25 (07/01/10 01:47 PM)
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CamKron
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12834502 - 07/01/10 03:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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all i read is the title
no, you dont need anything other than the SGFC to fruit whatever it is you want to fruit
adding shit probly wont make a difference, as the SGFC is designed to just sit there with some misting and fanning
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: CamKron]
#12836444 - 07/01/10 09:58 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I might go ahead and make a PMP instead of a SG. Maybe. I can't decide. I have 6 cakes and tray I want to try out and I would like something that is pretty much care free and automated, but I feel that even with the PMP I will have to mist and fan as needed...
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SomeGuy
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12836499 - 07/01/10 10:12 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Shea25
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12836541 - 07/01/10 10:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
paducahovoids said:
check this out, it works alot better than the classic pmp http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12736605#12736605
That terrarium you just posted would be a bad idea. the mushrooms in the picture look like they lack FAE, and since you are using a small pump that pumps air into bottles of water in the terrarium I can see why it lacks FAE.
A classic PMP will work 10x better then the one you just posted.
This is a proper PMP
I find a PMP beats out my Shotgun
3-4 inches of perlite, 1 inch or so of water and a big pump with duel outputs pushing lots of air into 3 bubbler bars under the perlite.
Also with 1/4 inch holes in the lid
Edited by Shea25 (07/01/10 10:23 PM)
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SomeGuy
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12836704 - 07/01/10 10:48 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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the air coming out of my bottles id more humid than the air that comes from one of those, The air is in the water longer. It provides plenty of fae, 2.5 cfm=30 air exchanges an hour
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12836765 - 07/01/10 10:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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What if you made a PMP with about 3" of hydroton and 1" of perlite on top of hyrdoton. You could then fill it with a little less than 3" of water in which the air stones will run.
Do you guys manually mist and fan with your PMPs?
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Shea25
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12836770 - 07/01/10 10:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
paducahovoids said:
the air coming out of my bottles id more humid than the air that comes from one of those, The air is in the water longer. It provides plenty of fae, 2.5 cfm=30 air exchanges an hour
Look at the size of the chamber you have and look at the tiny pump you have.
Having bubbler bars under the perlite and some water will do wayyyyyy more then having it in bottles.
You can even tell by your mushrooms in the chamber that they lack FAE
Also the pump you have is not rating for 2.5 CFM
Edited by Shea25 (07/01/10 10:59 PM)
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Shea25
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12836773 - 07/01/10 11:00 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
M11 said:
What if you made a PMP with about 3" of hydroton and 1" of perlite on top of hyrdoton. You could then fill it with a little less than 3" of water in which the air stones will run.
Do you guys manually mist and fan with your PMPs?
use bubbler bars not air stones, also yes still mist and fan
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SomeGuy
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12836786 - 07/01/10 11:02 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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it depends on the outside weather. My triple bubbler raises air about 20% over ambient rh, so if the rh is less than 70% I do. I wave the lid over it a couple of times a day to keep stagnant air moving
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SomeGuy
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12836801 - 07/01/10 11:06 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
paducahovoids said:
the air coming out of my bottles id more humid than the air that comes from one of those, The air is in the water longer. It provides plenty of fae, 2.5 cfm=30 air exchanges an hour
Look at the size of the chamber you have and look at the tiny pump you have.
Having bubbler bars under the perlite and some water will do wayyyyyy more then having it in bottles.
You can even tell by your mushrooms in the chamber that they lack FAE
Also the pump you have is not rating for 2.5 CFM
My pmp works different from yours. air comes out the holes at the bottom. All air passes by the cakes on it's way out. Way more efficient than trying to blow air up from the bottom. Co2 is automatically evacuated in my system Seems like I have plenty of fae WHat do you see to lead you to the conclusion I lack FAE?
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Shea25
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12836834 - 07/01/10 11:13 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am telling you that small pump you have will not do much for that size chamber, First off its a very small pump and you have it in a large chamber.
Air coming in and though the bottles will not pass over the entire chamber and over the myc like you think it will.
Look at your pictures the mushrooms have very long thin stems, a trait that have noticed in the other pictures you have
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SomeGuy
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12836843 - 07/01/10 11:15 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I originally had a lot smaller peice of tupperware, so I am due for another pump. I still would take my pmp over a sg anyday.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: Shea25]
#12836848 - 07/01/10 11:17 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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The bottom line for the original question is don't use an air pump in a shotgun terrarium. It will create a slight positive pressure inside the terrarium, messing up the natural flow which makes them work.
RR
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12836864 - 07/01/10 11:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Both of your guys' grows look good to me.
Quit your bickering you two eat more mushrooms...
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12836871 - 07/01/10 11:21 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
The bottom line for the original question is don't use an air pump in a shotgun terrarium. It will create a slight positive pressure inside the terrarium, messing up the natural flow which makes them work.
RR
I think I will just go with the SG. I have more perlite than I know what to do with and it is very simple.
Thanks again RR.
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TacoHerder
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12836936 - 07/01/10 11:33 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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make sure you have it eluvated off the ground and holes in all 6 sides.
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M11
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: TacoHerder]
#12836970 - 07/01/10 11:39 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
TacoHerder said:
make sure you have it eluvated off the ground and holes in all 6 sides.
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hermes
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: M11]
#12839654 - 07/02/10 02:05 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have the same plan with a SGFC and a pump. I understand, its a bad idea, but i still have to solve a problem. I will be away from home for 5 days. I have BRF cakes, dunked and rolled. Possibily, the pinning can begin any time. My plan is, to put an airstone ended hose through the lid of a small plastic container, which is filled with perlite and water, and another hose out of it, and bury this hose under the perlite in the FC. Its end is closed, and i made holes on it. The pump would be controlled with a timer. This should make enough FAE, and because of the small water/perlite container, the perlite in the FC wont get dry. I allready made the setup, but now , that i read this threadm i have bad feelings about it... It would be only 5 days...
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,496
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Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: hermes]
#12840210 - 07/02/10 04:25 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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you'd prob. be alright if you left the pump on. Having that triple bubbler on mine reduces the airflow, so you don't dry the terrarium, and makes nice humid air. Thats the benefits of the triple bubbler
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M11
White Thumb
Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 1,840
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Re: Is it worth it to install a aquarium air pump with an air stone in a SGFC? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12840277 - 07/02/10 04:39 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I ran a cool mist into a SGFC with one cake when I was gone one weekend (about 3 days) last summer as a test run. I came back to find 40 wet grams of Golden Teacher.
They dropped their spores, but oh well...
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