|
 angel418
life, light, love and liberty!
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Newark Nj 
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
|
 Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. 
#12727565 - 06/11/10 07:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
So what is the best substrate in your experience? I think I listed the 3 of the top 4, with the 4th BEng horse poo. So what do u usually use and why?' also is it better for it to be more complex or simple?
|
 CH HELL
Brain Sturgeon
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 6,446
Loc: mars
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12727603 - 06/11/10 07:28 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
There is a reason to use them all, so it depends on the situation(speed, yield,etc..) to say witch is best.
CH
|
afrosheen
9Lives the cat
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: CH HELL]
#12727862 - 06/11/10 08:26 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
IMHO they all have different purposes. My friend prefers coir because it is hard to contam, cubes love it, it's fairly cheap and easily available. Plus pasteurization is a snap, throw a brick in a bucket and dump boiling hot water over it, that's pretty much it.
Horse manure is supposed to be great as well but is a hassle to obtain depending on where you live. Coir ships to the front door. 
BTW your question is kinda odd since you're mixing spawn substrates and bulk substrates. Nobody spawns to a monotub of WBS, but they'd spawn to a monotub of horse manure. By that same token you would use rye berries as spawn but not fill a tray with it.
--------------------
Edited by afrosheen (06/11/10 08:27 PM)
|
doornoblightbulb
Demigod
Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 319
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: afrosheen]
#12727967 - 06/11/10 08:46 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
You only listed one substrate dude. Verm. The other ones a spawn. Very different.
Spawn: WBS, Rye, brf.
Substrate: straw, manure, compost, verm, coir, coffee, etc etc.
|
Mad_Hatter2004
Surfista Amigo
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2,298
Loc: Somewhere in teh Northern...
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: doornoblightbulb]
#12727980 - 06/11/10 08:50 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
doornoblightbulb said:
You only listed one substrate dude. Verm. The other ones a spawn. Very different.
Spawn: WBS,Rye,Popcorn,brf.
Substrate: straw, manure, compost, verm, coir, coffee, etc etc.
Fixed
--------------------
 7 days without waves makes one weak!
|
Az0th
quantum transfiguration
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 53,427
Loc: The Void
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12727991 - 06/11/10 08:53 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
for spawn, rye will always be my favorite
substrate: horse shit and straw is amazing but for convenience I love coir/coffee/verm
--------------------
~Thought Creates Reality~
|
jokefox
Top of the chain
Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 6,163
Loc: never where I should be
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
#12727994 - 06/11/10 08:54 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
im pretty sure you cant use straight verm so its not a substrate
its an additive
or a casing ingredient
casing: perlite, peat moss , verm ,
|
hamloaf
The Lone Pine Cone.
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 8,166
Loc: Oklahoma City.
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12728551 - 06/11/10 11:02 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
angel418 said:
So what is the best substrate in your experience? I think I listed the 3 of the top 4, with the 4th BEng horse poo. So what do u usually use and why?' also is it better for it to be more complex or simple?
Wbs, brf, and rye berries are all substrates for the
running of your spawn and not bulk substrates.
Verm mix is nothing.
Bulk substrates for cubes include, coco coir/vermiculite,
40/60 cow manure/straw, 40/60 horse manure straw. Straw
alone or horse manure alone. Horse manure being the best of
all worlds as far as bulk substrates for cubensis are concerned
Horse manure has the best consistency due to the number of
stomachs a cow has as apposed to a horse. Thus horse manure
on it's own, is higher in nitrogen and at the right consistency
fresh from the horse. Of coarse you have to let your manure dry
in the sun until there is no oder left. It doesn't hurt to add
20% percent vermiculite to your horse manure then pasteurize at
140-180 degrees ferinheight for an hour to kill off the prey
bacteria while leaving the predator bacteria alive to feed upon
the remaining prey bacteria.
Now to determine further which bulk substrate best suits your
needs. Answer me one question. Where do you live? Do you live
in an urban or rural environment? Also what is your level of dedication?
Are you looking for the easiest most readily available bulk
substrates? Or are you dedicated enough to go the extra mile
and do what you have to do to obtain horse manure.
|
jokefox
Top of the chain
Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 6,163
Loc: never where I should be
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: hamloaf]
#12728590 - 06/11/10 11:13 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
look at hamloaf go
thats TC info right there
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: jokefox]
#12728617 - 06/11/10 11:18 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
afrosheen said: By that same token you would use rye berries as spawn but not fill a tray with it.
Cased rye in a tray works quite well. 
Quote:
jokefox said:
im pretty sure you cant use straight verm so its not a substrate
You can spawn to wet verm. Works with cubes, even better with stones.
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
colemantallent
I do science.
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 184
Loc:
Last seen: 29 days, 11 hours
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12728621 - 06/11/10 11:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I would only use BRF and vermiculite if I wanted to do cakes. And for that, they are the best. For grain spawn, I think I'd prefer to use Rye because it is easier to work with and a lot less mess. I use WBS, however, because it is more readily available to me and it is much cheaper.
--------------------
'Man, I hate to flame the noobs but one out of every hundred decides to create an account and jump into a thread, dick swinging.'
- splifner180
|
birdsfoot
Just Some Guy
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 119
Loc: East coast
Last seen: 41 minutes, 57 seconds
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: Doc_T]
#12728904 - 06/12/10 12:28 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
You can spawn to wet verm. Works with cubes, even better with stones.
I spawn my old grain lc to wet verm sometimes just to get the most out of it with almost no effort. Done mainly for the hobby more than yields.
--------------------
The most useful tool in a mycologist's bag is patience.
Wiping a loop with alcohol after flame sterilizing is like wiping shit on your face after taking a shower.
RR
|
angel418
life, light, love and liberty!
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Newark Nj
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: birdsfoot]
#12728937 - 06/12/10 12:35 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I basically asked the question. To learn more, and I learned I know a lot less than I thought. What exactly is the difference from substrate and spawn, I didn't know there was a differencE.
When and why would u use each?
Thanks
|
angel418
life, light, love and liberty!
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Newark Nj
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12728977 - 06/12/10 12:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
@hamloaf I live in Newark nj like 10 mins fom NYC, so vEry urban, I am prepared to be very dedicated though I won't find h poo around here, can it be bought?
Thanks
|
Numinosum
President of Turd Town
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12728995 - 06/12/10 12:51 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I found a horse for lease in bedminster, about 35 min from you. If you have a pickup, or even an SUV, or very large trunk, the ride would be worth it.
--------------------
...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge
|
eVenom
DRIFT on toBATTLE
Registered: 08/25/07
Posts: 777
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: birdsfoot]
#12729085 - 06/12/10 01:09 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
birdsfoot said:
Quote:
You can spawn to wet verm. Works with cubes, even better with stones.
I spawn my old grain lc to wet verm sometimes just to get the most out of it with almost no effort. Done mainly for the hobby more than yields.
Do any of you have proof of that!
I have done straight verm vs Hpoo as a experiment and the verm did very well but I could not finish the experiment to give any proof!
I will re-do-it some time soon and will post the results
but if any of you have done it I would like to see it!
especially the straight verm with lc!!!
I have never gotten Hpoo to colonize without some kind of spawn!
--------------------
eVenom
"Some of us like a nice buzz, while others want to climb a screaming volcano naked to meet god."
RR
|
angel418
life, light, love and liberty!
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Newark Nj
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: eVenom]
#12729119 - 06/12/10 01:16 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
i see horse poo on sell on ebay 10 lbs for 25$. but thats not that far, i might have to check that out. although i am still very new at this, i am still working on my 1st batch, its 36 jars of brf. but after i get my 1st flush i want to start a monotub, i might even start it sooner since i all ready have all the materials, other than figuring out the substate spawn situation.
|
afrosheen
9Lives the cat
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12729636 - 06/12/10 03:38 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
angel418 said:
i see horse poo on sell on ebay 10 lbs for 25$. but thats not that far, i might have to check that out. although i am still very new at this, i am still working on my 1st batch, its 36 jars of brf. but after i get my 1st flush i want to start a monotub, i might even start it sooner since i all ready have all the materials, other than figuring out the substate spawn situation.
36 jars? God, how did you have the patience to inoculate that many? 36 jars x 4 inoculation points = 144 inoculations, and if you're careful, 36 needle flamings. That'd also take about 36 cc's of spores, which would mean 3 12cc syringes full.
That's way too much work. You need to discover monotubs and grain like wbs or rye next.
--------------------
|
angel418
life, light, love and liberty!
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Newark Nj
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: afrosheen]
#12730136 - 06/12/10 07:40 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I did it on 3 Different occasions about 2 days between each. Also I used a little cleanbox so only flamEd once at the beginning. Also I guess I didn't use enough spores cause I had 2 syringes of spores and I still have about 5 ccs left. I can't wait till my lc starts growing. U think doing to little spores will have a bad effect? I got mycellium.
|
eVenom
DRIFT on toBATTLE
Registered: 08/25/07
Posts: 777
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12730152 - 06/12/10 07:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
angel418 said:
Also I used a little cleanbox so only flamEd once at the beginning.
I see Mr.Green in your future!
--------------------
eVenom
"Some of us like a nice buzz, while others want to climb a screaming volcano naked to meet god."
RR
|
angel418
life, light, love and liberty!
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Newark Nj
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: eVenom]
#12730318 - 06/12/10 09:39 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I have had 2 contams both were a weird white mold, like cotton like. I hope that's all I get, I thought if u are using a clean box u only need to flame at the begining or if needle touches anything.
To be honest even though I am using sterile technique I wonder how much is needed and how much is overkill. I am a noob so for I am going as much by the book as possible.
|
Numinosum
President of Turd Town
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12730376 - 06/12/10 10:06 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
But you need to be careful with cross contamination.
Its just like, "I don't wash watermelon because you don't eat the outside". But when you cut it, you carry any
"germs" from the outside and drag it in.
Likewise with the syringe. If the syringe comes into contact with any contaminants while going
in/out of a jar, you end up carrying it to each jar following.
It is recommended to flame between every jar. I only flame every other. But I am willing to accept any
loss that is do to my laziness.
--------------------
...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge
|
birdsfoot
Just Some Guy
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 119
Loc: East coast
Last seen: 41 minutes, 57 seconds
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: eVenom]
#12730652 - 06/12/10 11:34 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eVenom said:
Quote:
birdsfoot said:
Quote:
You can spawn to wet verm. Works with cubes, even better with stones.
I spawn my old grain lc to wet verm sometimes just to get the most out of it with almost no effort. Done mainly for the hobby more than yields.
Do any of you have proof of that!
I have done straight verm vs Hpoo as a experiment and the verm did very well but I could not finish the experiment to give any proof!
I will re-do-it some time soon and will post the results
but if any of you have done it I would like to see it!
especially the straight verm with lc!!!
I have never gotten Hpoo to colonize without some kind of spawn!
Next time I do it I'll take some pics. Never though anyone would ever be interested so I never bothered with documenting it.
--------------------
The most useful tool in a mycologist's bag is patience.
Wiping a loop with alcohol after flame sterilizing is like wiping shit on your face after taking a shower.
RR
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,269
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12730739 - 06/12/10 11:52 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Spawn media are grains such as rice, rye, wild bird seed, millet, etc. They're used to expand mycelium. Brown rice flour mixed with verm is a cross-over material, being effective as a spawn and also as a substrate. The others require a casing layer to be used effectively as a substrate.
A substrate is the fruiting media. As said above, you can case your spawn with peat/verm or potting soil and get fruits. Otherwise, the best course of action is to use the colonized spawn to inoculate a bulk substrate such as horse manure, coir, straw, compost, etc.
Vermiculite makes an 'OK' bulk substrate material when mixed with grains. Verm has minerals and other food fungi love and they fruit pretty well on it. However, vermiculite works better when used to 'fluff up' a bulk substrate such as bagged-up composted cow manure from a nursery or compost, by mixing it 50/50 with the other material. In years past, there was a lot of horrible information posted on this and other boards saying verm has no 'nutes', which is flat-out wrong.
Don't try to inoculate verm or any other bulk substrate indoors with spores or liquid culture. It has a 99% chance of failure. Use the spores to colonize a spawn media, and when that's fully colonized, use those grains or brf to inoculate the verm or other bulk substrate material. Hopefully, this clears up any confusion over the difference between the two.
To the original poster, you can get horse manure in NYC. In every city I've been to, there's always an area with people who own horses, and in addition, most large cities have a mounted police force. Don't be shy about knocking on a door where you see horses, or walking right up to the police department stables with a bag and shovel and asking for manure for your garden. They'll be glad to let you have it. Collect field aged manure that's been out in the pasture in the sun for a few weeks, not the urine soaked stuff they sweep out of the barns.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
Bene
Fun Guy
Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 54
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: angel418]
#12731098 - 06/12/10 02:00 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Not being rude but are you sure that white fluffy stuff was not mycelium starting to grow?
|
Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,536
Loc: under a rock in your yard
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: Bene]
#12731133 - 06/12/10 02:14 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bene said:
Not being rude but are you sure that white fluffy stuff was not mycelium starting to grow?
i was thinking the same thing.
ive seen plenty of cottony myc that was just fine.
|
angel418
life, light, love and liberty!
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Newark Nj
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
|
Re: Pros and cons of substrates: wbs, brf & verm mix, rye berries, etc. [Re: Fungal growth]
#12733124 - 06/12/10 09:27 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Hmm I was thinging the same thing at 1st, but then after awhile I just three it out due to, it looked so different. And there was a small patch of mycellem in there. But I figured it was so small due to the cotton mold was eating all the nutrients.
|
|
Images only 
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Shop for: 
Edit 
Reply 
