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Cyph3r said:
I seek something because I feel incomplete, but I do not know what I seek.  If I did I would have found it by now. 

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c0sm0nautt said:
I feel you there. IMO, Enlightenment can be summed up as a change from feeling bad to feeling good. I just want to feel good all the time. What else could anyone ask for?

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evildee125 said:
ive found "enlightenment" to be both blissful... and at other times horrifying

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Aaahhh... The pursuit of happiness. It is so elusive, yes? Here in America we even have the right to pursue it. The pursuit of happiness isn't a right in every country, you know. So consider yourself one of the privileged on the planet, even if you don't have much money or material things. You are still among the privileged in the world because you at least have the opportunity to be in a moment such as this, reading and pondering meaning.

Chasing bliss is a useful thing in the beginning of the spiritual search. It is usually what entices the spiritual seeker to "go on the path" in the first place. The possibility that happiness can be found encourages the personality to look away from illusion. If the personality is satisfied and happy in illusion, there is no reason for it to look elsewhere for anything. This is why the need to chase bliss can be useful in the beginning, for it alerts you to the idea that there is "something else" in life.

Chasing bliss is what started the path for everyone, in some way or another. Didn't you start your spiritual search because you were disappointed with your life for some reason and wanted something you didn't have? Let's be honest. There was not enough love, not enough security, not enough money, not enough friends, not enough power, not enough happiness, not enough something, right?

There is something astray, however, when the spiritual seeker focuses too intently on the pursuit of happiness--the dreadful "chasing bliss" trap. The pursuit of happiness isn't recognized as a trap. This is where chasing bliss is not useful on the spiritual path and serves rather as a distraction. What's worse is that you actually never get the prize! Ah, this is the biggest kicker, the biggest brain twister. And such a let down! Many a spiritual path has been abandoned because of this terrible let down when the seeker finally realizes there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow called happiness.

This is a terrible moment (or it could be debated that it is a wonderful moment) on the spiritual path. This is often called the dark night of the soul. This is when the personality realizes it has lost the chasing-bliss-game and can never win, no matter what it does. This is when you realize that all strategies of the personality, all the knowledge gathered, all the work you have done on yourself, is still not going to save you from fear. It is not going to give you 24/7 bliss or even simple human contentment.

This is the cusp of enlightenment. At this time on the spiritual path, the search is almost over. All escape routes from fear have been exhausted and there is no way out. This is the moment for the breakthrough. This is the moment of surrender, of giving up. This is when enlightenment is in your grasp. This is when the personality gives up and stops trying to get anything.
If the spiritual seeker doesn't make it through this initial let-down about how the spiritual path has betrayed the personality, the human psychology might be seriously dam-aged until truth is once again pondered. Disappointment in God, or bitterness about the fact that the spiritual path never panned out, is a terrible "spiritual poison" to live with.

Some people get stuck here, right on the cusp of enlightenment. This is because the last step, surrender of the personality, is not taken. This is truly the only step necessary after the initial turn of attention away from the illusion of "my life," yet it is the hardest. Everything else, even on the spiritual path up to this point, has been a strategy of the personality to get what it wants. Surrender of all strategies is the end of the spiritual path, the conclusion of the search. For all seekers, this is the last and most difficult hurdle to cross no matter how long or short a time has been spent strategizing to attain enlightenment. To let go of what the personality wants, mainly happiness, is a big stretch, a quantum leap, into the unknown.

Many techniques have been taught on improving the personality or reality, like affirmations and visualizations. Many strategies for enlightenment have been given, like sitting in the lotus position for twenty years. These teachings assert that happiness will be found when the personality is perfected, all social skills are attained, all flaws are smoothed over, the physical body is detoxified and functioning, and manifesting skills are useable. This is the dreadful chasing-bliss-trap on the spiritual path that most seekers get caught in it for an entire lifetime.
When this moment of surrender and giving up is embraced, true enlightenment is possible. The seeker then passes into the consciousness beyond illusion. If this moment is surrendered to and the seeker drops into it, enlightenment is finally realized and the personality viewpoint is surpassed.
It is not about building the personality or having the power to manipulate physical reality. It is all about dismantling the illusion, not building the illusion. Who you really are is already perfect and at ease with all that is in existence. It is the illusion that must be dismantled in order to reach perfection. This does not mean perfection of the personality or situations in life. It is perfection that is already here in you, the container for all that is happening. This container is called conscious-ness. Everything else, every experience from human bliss to human terror, is but a product of this consciousness.

Once you realize who you are you can see through the illusion as if it is air, all done with mirrors and light. You can see your life from God's viewpoint for you are that viewpoint. This perspective is an amazing place to experience life from, for it is like being in a lucid dream that is magically here in the middle of the vast arena of eternal consciousness. Your eternal perspective of this life is a place where God is looking at itself. If you realize that you are this eternal awareness experiencing itself in various ways, like having a lifetime on Earth, you are enlightened, which means "to be in knowledge of."

This does not mean that the personality colored Earth life is going to be full of human bliss all the time. It does mean, however, that you are at ease in the eternal self, which never dies and can never be harmed by any experience, not even the ones the personality is having on earth. You can live as this eternal self because you are not the personality. You can live knowing the secret of life on earth: that it is all just a thought in the mind of God. You are privy to the knowledge that even the unpleasant experiences in life cannot harm you, that you long outlive your personality with all its motives, drives, accomplishments and strategies.

Living from this perspective takes away the fear that the personality constantly lives in and is also trying to avoid. This is the place of no fear, if it could even be called a place. How can there be fear if harm and annihilation are impossible for eternal consciousness?
The fulfillment you seek on the spiritual path is within you. Your true identity needs no fulfillment and has no need to chase after bliss, a fleeting emotion at best. You are that which is already whole. You are that which contains bliss, among other emotions, each appearing and disappearing in the attention of consciousness. You cannot get or attain that which is already in you. It is only attention that shifts. The bliss did not go away from you. It is still there.
Eternal self, which you are, just wants to dream and experience itself. It doesn't care if all those dreams and experiences are pleasant or unpleasant, for it knows what is behind the illusion: God's consciousness dreaming. It also knows that it is dreaming an illusion. You are that consciousness, formless and without change.

Be this in daily human life, and your human life will have a different flavor. There is a reward for living life with eternal perspective, even though the reward is not necessarily what the personality wanted in the first place when it started the spiritual search. The reward will not be 24/7 bliss. Nope, not going to get that. The reward might not be perfection of the personality, or having everyone love and adore you. It might not mean that you have financial wealth and the ability to manipulate reality in your favor with metaphysical mind powers. What it does mean is that your life will arrange itself to reflect that you live as eternal consciousness, rather than the human personality.

What that reflection will be for you as an individual, you can only know when you have dismantled the personality and realize who you really are. It is a mystery until then, and it is a different picture for everyone. What can be guaranteed, however, is that it will be a better reflection than the personality can ever create with all it's strategies, flaws, shortcomings, misinterpretations, mind tricks and pitfalls. The personality chases bliss and avoids fear at all costs, focused on getting fulfillment from the illusion. Only when the personality strategies are dropped, only then will you find the truth of who you are, independent of a personality on Earth.
Try walking through your daily life as eternal conscious-ness rather than the human self. Pretend that you are having a lucid dream, that you are actually formless consciousness sleeping somewhere outside of this universe, dreaming. Play with this for just a few moments per day if you find it difficult not to slip back into the personality self. You might be on automatic programming for a while until realizing yourself as eternal consciousness becomes a habit and you no longer have to remember to hold attention this way. Override the perspective you have as a human whenever you can, as you think of it.

Looking at life as eternal self, rather than your human perspective, is a good habit to develop. This is where joy and happiness have been hiding, here in the eternal self. Look at whatever you are experiencing from this new perspective and see if anything is different. Even ordinary experiences can be used as vehicles for exercising this eternal consciousness perspective. As you eat your dinner notice what the tone of your experience is when you take a bite as a human. Then notice the tone of your experience as your take a bite as eternal being. Investigate this, just for curiosity's sake. You don't even have to believe these words. You can still investigate, discover for yourself and see if something is different.

You will slip back into the personality perspective, even after you have discovered your true identity. You might as well assume that you will slip back within a week, maybe a day or two, an hour or even another few minutes from now. Don't worry about this. There is no contest to see how long you constantly maintain your eternal perspective. Now you know the secret of who you are, your true identity, and you can awake again whenever you realize that you have fallen back to sleep. You can return instantly to enlightenment, to your true identity as dreaming eternal consciousness.
Human bliss will no longer be the goal. Human happiness, whatever that means to you, will no longer be the elusive pot of goal at the end of the rainbow. The chase for bliss will be abandoned. Human emotions will remain passing moments, which continue to come and go in your human life. Instead, you will find that which transcends any human emotion. It is the bliss of knowing who you are, knowing that you cannot be harmed, even if you lose your car, lose your friends, your lover, lose your house or even your life. This is where you will find the no-fear, peace and ease that you have been looking for in your chase for bliss and the pursuit of human happiness. Eternal self is already happy.

May you find the truth of who you are in this coming year of 2004. This might be the first year of living life as your eternal self rather than your human self. This is a radical invitation, and will have powerful effects on your life. If you develop the habit to live as eternal self which cannot be harmed by life on earth, your life will be different by the end of the year, if not sooner. You don't have to say one affirmation or energize one visualization! Physical reality is an automatic reflection machine. It will respond to your consciousness independently of your personality's strategies. No mind tricks needed! Find out what your reflection looks like in physical reality when you live your life as God's eternal consciousness rather than the human personality. It will be a beautiful thing indeed, and the chase for "something" will be over. Then you will live in the eternal ease that transcends all versions of happiness, including bliss. When you as a human experience bliss, the true identity of yourself has surfaced. It is in the very nature of your eternal self. Now you know where to find true bliss. It is in giving up all strategies for attaining human bliss.

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Enpo said:
What was making you feel bad?

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Enpo said:

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Cyph3r said:
I seek something because I feel incomplete, but I do not know what I seek.  If I did I would have found it by now. 

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What 'spiritual path' or practices do you feel help your emptiness the most? What do you THINK enlightenment is like?

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Enpo said:
How do you believe the Chaos magic allows you to understand your own subconcious? Can you give examples?

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c0sm0nautt said:
I would equate a 'end of suffering' with bliss, inner peace, etc. How can you end one without having the other?

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What drives your spirituality?

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What was it?

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circastes said:
Come on, you're all gods. Wake up! Smell the morning ecstasy.

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Speak for yourself. I find the idea insulting.

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Cyph3r said:
So far. 

I'd recommend reading some Peter Carroll or Phil Hine if you're interested in chaos magick, or just if you want to ask me anything.  http://english.grimoar.cz/ has many online documents related to the occult.

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Cyph3r said:
I seek something because I feel incomplete, but I do not know what I seek.  If I did I would have found it by now. 

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Chronic777 said:
First a desire came for a truer way of being
Then a desire came to understand the universe
Then a desire to understand why all beings in the universe have to suffer
Then a desire to know what 'Self' really is
Then...

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Icelander said:
Right and imo our best tool to work this all out is psychology, a field that unfortunately is still in it's infancy.

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Enpo said:

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Cyph3r said:
So far. 

I'd recommend reading some Peter Carroll or Phil Hine if you're interested in chaos magick, or just if you want to ask me anything.  http://english.grimoar.cz/ has many online documents related to the occult.

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Thanks, I'm definitely going to look into it. I have an obsession with my unconscious/ subconscious that dreaming alone and meditation can't fill.

One more question: What religion were you raised with, if any?

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AngryPhil said:

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Cyph3r said:
I seek something because I feel incomplete, but I do not know what I seek.  If I did I would have found it by now. 

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You seek the truth
And walk past it

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Shit, I guess I gotta retrace my steps now. 

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c0sm0nautt said:
Like you, I am based off my personal experiences. It's a shame people let acculturation shut them off to a whole universe of ideas.

As John Lilly says, "Science is the Yoga of the West. Yoga is the science of the East"

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Cyph3r said:
Shit, I guess I gotta retrace my steps now. 

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Cyph3r said:

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c0sm0nautt said:
Like you, I am based off my personal experiences. It's a shame people let acculturation shut them off to a whole universe of ideas.

As John Lilly says, "Science is the Yoga of the West. Yoga is the science of the East"

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It's all about unifying psychology WITH mysticism.

The method of science, the aim of religion.
-Aleister Crowley

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