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 c0sm0nautt
 
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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 The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist   1
#12528666 - 05/08/10 09:52 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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If we want to be free of the pain we inflict on ourselves and each other -- in other words, if we want to be happy -- then we have to learn to think for ourselves. We need to be responsible for ourselves and examine anything that claims to be the truth. That's what the Buddha did long ago to free himself from his own discontent and persistent doubts about what he heard, day-after-day, from his parents, teachers and the palace priests.
Although he was a prince born into a wealthy and powerful family, the young Siddhartha often just wanted to get away from it all. He wanted the space to think independently about who he was and what the spiritual path was about. Such freethinking was important to the Buddha's search for inner truth and his ultimate realization of enlightenment. These days more and more people in the West are following the teachings and example of the Buddha. But what are these teachings about? What is Buddhism? It looks like a religion, but is it?
There are many definitions of religion. Some are so broad they'd include your neighborhood garden club. Others are narrower: your garden club would need a deity, enthusiasm for that deity, and a set of beliefs and practices. We all have some sense of what religion means to us, but when we start talking about it -- trouble!
If you search "world religions," you'll find "Buddhism" on every list. Does that make Buddhism a religion? Does it mean that because I'm a Buddhist, I'm "religious"? I can argue that Buddhism is a science of mind -- a way of exploring how we think, feel and act that leads us to profound truths about who we are. I can also say that Buddhism is a philosophy of life -- a way to live that maximizes our chances for happiness.
What Buddhism is, at this point, is certainly out of the Buddha's hands. His teachings passed into the hands of his followers thousands of years ago. They passed from wandering beggars to monastic institutions, from the illiterate to the learned, from the esoteric East to the outspoken West. In its travels, Buddhism has been many things to many people. But what did the Buddha intend when he taught?
At the start of his own spiritual quest, Prince Siddhartha left his royal home, along with its many luxuries and privileges. He was determined to find answers to life's most perplexing questions. Are we born into the world just to suffer, grow old, and die? What's going on -- what's the meaning of it all? After years of experimenting with different forms of religious practice, he abandoned his austerities and all his concepts about his spiritual journey -- all the beliefs and doctrines that had led him to where he was. At the end of that journey, with only an open and curious mind, he discovered what he was looking for -- the great mind of enlightenment. He woke up from all confusion. He saw beyond all belief systems to the profound reality of the mind itself -- a state of clear awareness and supreme happiness. Along with that knowledge came an understanding of how to lead a meaningful and compassionate life. For the next 45 years, he taught how to work with the mind: how to look at it, how to free it from misunderstandings, and how to realize the greatness of its potential.
Those teachings today still describe a deeply personal inner journey that's spiritual, yes, but not religious. The Buddha wasn't a god -- he wasn't even a Buddhist. You're not required to have more faith in the Buddha than you do in yourself. His power lies in his teachings, which show us how to work with our minds to realize our full capacity for wakefulness and happiness. These teachings can help us satisfy our search for the truth -- our need to know who and what we really are.
Where do we find this truth? Although we can rely to some degree on the wisdom we find in books and on the advice of respected spiritual authorities, that's only the beginning. The journey to genuine truth begins when you discover a true question -- one that comes from the heart -- from your own life and experience. That question will lead to an answer that will lead to another question, and so on. That's how it goes on the spiritual path.
We start by bringing an open, inquisitive, and skeptical mind to whatever we hear, read, or see that presents itself as the truth. We examine it with reason and we put it to the test in meditation and in our lives. As we gain insight into the workings of the mind, we learn how to recognize and deal with our day-to-day experiences of thoughts and emotions. We uncover inaccurate and unhelpful habits of thinking and begin to correct them. Eventually we're able to overcome the confusion that makes it so hard to see the mind's naturally brilliant awareness. In this sense, the Buddha's teachings are a method of investigation, or a science of mind.
Religion, on the other hand, often provides us with answers to life's big questions from the start. We don't have to think about it too much. We learn what to think and believe and our job is to live up to that, not to question it. If we relate to the Buddha's teachings as final answers that don't need to be examined, then we're practicing Buddhism as a religion.
In any case, we still have to live our lives and face up to how we're going to do it. We can't escape having a "philosophy of life," because we're challenged every day to choose one action over another -- kindness or indifference, generosity or selfishness, patience or blame. When our decisions and actions reflect the knowledge we've gained by working with our minds, that's adopting Buddhism as a way of life.
As the teachings of the Buddha reach us and pass into our Western hands, what determines what they will be for us? It's all in how we use them. As long as they help to clear up our confusion and inspire confidence that we can fulfill our potential, then they're doing the job that the Buddha intended.
We can use all the help we can get, because strange as it seems, we hang onto to our confusion. We cling to it because we think it shields us from something. But like wearing sunglasses day and night, we are only avoiding looking at who we truly are. We prefer to wear our "shades," simply because we're not used to the bright light of our minds. The teachings of the Buddha -- no matter how we label them -- show us how to open our eyes to that brilliance.
Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche is a meditation master in the Nyingma and Kagyu schools of Tibetan Buddhism. He is the author of several books including "Rebel Buddha (Shambhala Publications), scheduled to publish in November.
http://www.evolver.net/node/44922
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
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 jivJaN
yes
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12528776 - 05/08/10 10:18 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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i've seen the elephant 
taught me to stand my ground.
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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: jivJaN]
#12529084 - 05/08/10 11:30 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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 That's funny because two of them always chase me in the dream. In another dream I had to feed many of them. They were stomping their feet because I ran out of food!
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Jack Attack
Nothing Special
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12529111 - 05/08/10 11:35 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Cool post.
Yeah, Buddha was raised Hindu and some Hindus believe that he was an incarnation of Vishnu. Just thought I'd add that.
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jivJaN
yes
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12529252 - 05/09/10 12:03 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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i actually saw something like that picture of yours.
it traveled through the walls and all around the area.
there we're many others traveling , unseen.
the elephant tried to guide me into not being under their influence like the rest of the drugged up people at the party.
drink water.. keep your back straight..
breathe.
..they didn't appreciate my presence..
not one bit.
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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: jivJaN]
#12529368 - 05/09/10 12:29 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I've yet to really understand why it is, as similarly described in Plato's Allegory of the Cave, that when someone emerges from the cave into the light they need to return to the cave to help free others.
What's that all about?
Buddhism as the light of the mind, removal of the sunglasses...
Why do we care if others continue to wear them?
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12529388 - 05/09/10 12:34 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Emptiness wants company?
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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lifeinallday
Slothin
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12529402 - 05/09/10 12:37 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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jeez you didnt need to write all that to get the point out, its kinda getting obvious. shit christ wasnt a catholic. the best buddha is simply a ordinary person
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"In a revolving universe those who stand still move backward"- I forget
Edited by lifeinallday (05/09/10 12:42 AM)
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lifeinallday
Slothin
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p.s. those who speak it do not know it, those who know it do not speak it.
and yes me writing this is contradictory though im just sayin... maybe it can be put to good use 
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"In a revolving universe those who stand still move backward"- I forget
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12529451 - 05/09/10 12:46 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Emptiness wants company?
or perhaps light wants to illuminate 
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jivJaN
yes
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12529559 - 05/09/10 01:17 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I've yet to really understand why it is, as similarly described in Plato's Allegory of the Cave, that when someone emerges from the cave into the light they need to return to the cave to help free others.
What's that all about?
Buddhism as the light of the mind, removal of the sunglasses...
Why do we care if others continue to wear them?
im enjoying your posts more and more.
The reason , i believe , comes from the distortion that "the light" can even be a place of permanent residence.
It serves to elude one ..
Its like.. you learn about internet.
You dont want to be IN the internet , but you tell people about it , so you can be more "connected".
In the past we have seen many examples of a network , that didn't require all of us to create.
It cannot exist without us , yet it is not us that really make it , hence the very skillfully thought out concept of "democracy"
It is simply a way of deluding people into believing that they do have a choice and do have a part in deciding what happens to a system, which they actually operate UNDER
Emerging from the cave is like emerging from a system of conditioning.
The cave had little holes through which light came.
imagine this , as your night sky.
The more primitive idea , under such a system , is to assume that the "cave" is actually creating the light , instead of understanding the the light is simply piercing through it.
So.. they're not coming back to the cave to help us get out of it.
Although they say they do .. the only thing that can actually BE DONE ..
is us destroying the cave.
We pierce through it too by seeing outside of it.
Stone by stone it crumbles.
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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,093
Last seen: 2 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: jivJaN]
#12529610 - 05/09/10 01:29 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I really like your use of the sky for the analogy. Thanks for that. Stars have for a while now been looking increasingly like punctures in the fabric of space through which light emerges. And space itself looks more and more like a fabric stretched over the top...
I've seen those holes rearrange.
Which makes me wonder what the holes really are too.
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Jack Attack
Nothing Special
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12529821 - 05/09/10 02:34 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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what's the source of that ganesh picture, c0sm0nautt?
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Jack Attack]
#12530727 - 05/09/10 10:33 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I got it off of the original blog. (see link in OP)
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12531963 - 05/09/10 03:55 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Was he a Jew, like Christ? He did never pass out shit?
"examine anything that claims to be the truth."
Rather contradictory with many of the precepts of Siddhartha/Bhudda/Some-Open-Brown-Dude. However, maybe that's the point.
These new Bhuddists try to get waaaay too articulate. The point was {.........}, otherwise you lost your way. It's pretty easy when you get the hang of it. Or if you don't.
~Monk
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Jack Attack
Nothing Special
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: numonkei]
#12533634 - 05/09/10 09:26 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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You really shouldn't have to put so much effort into into being this or that. My interpretation of Buddhism is a reductionist approach to things; peeling away a bunch of layers to get to some sort of quintessential core.
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12535601 - 05/10/10 07:45 AM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Buddha
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Forever White Belt
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12536333 - 05/10/10 12:51 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I've yet to really understand why it is, as similarly described in Plato's Allegory of the Cave, that when someone emerges from the cave into the light they need to return to the cave to help free others.
What's that all about?
Buddhism as the light of the mind, removal of the sunglasses...
Why do we care if others continue to wear them?
My Kung Fu teacher led me to this path, but maybe I chose it...
Bodhisattva : It is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.
It starts with the Four Noble Truths. Which leads to the Eightfold Path.
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The Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.
J. B. S. Haldane
The quest of the absolute leads into the four-dimensional world.
Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington
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The Chronic
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If your mind wakes up, then its natural for your mind to move to wake up other minds, to serve others rather than serve the ego
Theres so much compassion, love, bliss, it spills over...
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12536543 - 05/10/10 01:45 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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yeah... but why?
Why is the natural state of enlightenment love and compassion?
Why should questioning stop and be convinced this is the way it is?
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12536606 - 05/10/10 02:04 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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I'd say isn't a Universal truth that we all want to end suffering for ourselves (and some people others) and overall be happy?
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12536666 - 05/10/10 02:15 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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But why is that a universal truth?
What's the universal truth behind the why?
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12536680 - 05/10/10 02:18 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
yeah... but why?
Why is the natural state of enlightenment love and compassion?
Why should questioning stop and be convinced this is the way it is?
The realization of a singular (universal) truth must be integral in nature
Integrity, inclusiveness, is love, is compassion
Questioning stops when the mind stops
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Kickle
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12536870 - 05/10/10 03:08 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Integrity, inclusiveness, is love, is compassion
So you're saying that it is loving your self.
But why must we love our self?
Obviously I see the positive benefits of doing so, but there can always be a choice.
Why should someone choose to help themselves rather than harm?
Who really cares?
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12536946 - 05/10/10 03:25 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Why should someone choose to help themselves rather than harm?
Who really cares?
The being who experiences feeling harmed probably cares
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12537244 - 05/10/10 04:13 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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So the universal 'why' is suffering.
We all feel suffering, and thus, we all feel compassion for that suffering.
Compassion could not exist without suffering.
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12537270 - 05/10/10 04:18 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Certainly, if we experienced no suffering there would be no 'why?'
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deff
just relax
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12537302 - 05/10/10 04:22 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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yeah, compassion is simply the wish to remove suffering
most people are compassionate towards themselves and some close people (often misguidedly) but the compassion spoken about in buddhism is non-discriminatory, it's like the sun whose rays fall on all pools of water without direct intention
what's good to remember is relative vs absolute bodhicitta - where relative could be "i want to liberate all beings" and absolute is "there is no one truly to liberate" - a union of the two is most effective i think
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: deff]
#12537345 - 05/10/10 04:29 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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I feel somehow, the seeing that there is no one to gain liberation, at the same time liberates all things
The absolute can not in anyway exclude any relativeness, its all included, so although the absolute is true - liberation is our nature
In that realization the absolute truth gets reflected into the relative, so beings then become liberated, seeing they are already liberated
Im glad your back, that may make sense to someone now
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12537355 - 05/10/10 04:31 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Right... which leads me right back to why someone who isn't identified with anything but awareness, would feel the need to bring others to this state. Unless they identified to some extent with their memory of suffering, they should no longer know what suffering is. Unless you are suffering even when you've awoken...
I'll just cut to the chase.
Compassion is really a desire to get rid of negative emotions.
Mirror neurons create the emotions (e.g., suffering) that another is feeling, within you.
So you're doing everything you can to change that feeling to something more comfortable.
Even if you don't identify with this process, it occurs.
Some people deal with it by removing the negative stimulus (remove negative people from their life)
Others deal with it by trying to get the other person to see where it comes from.
One is compassionate towards the other, one is compassionate towards the self.
Compassion can also be called aversion to negative stimuli.
AKA if we didn't have mirror neurons, this would not be a universal truth at all.
The compassion would be always towards the self and never towards the other.
Edited by Kickle (05/10/10 04:36 PM)
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: deff]
#12537422 - 05/10/10 04:41 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
yeah, compassion is simply the wish to remove suffering
That's not simple at all! It's a wonderful gift!
Quote:
most people are compassionate towards themselves and some close people (often misguidedly) but the compassion spoken about in buddhism is non-discriminatory, it's like the sun whose rays fall on all pools of water without direct intention
That's what being a Buddha is all about. Transcending individual suffering. But even a Buddha can still see suffering in others. They still have a mirror in them. And yes, a mirror will reflect whatever comes into contact with it. It has no way to discriminate... it can't NOT reflect.
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Kickle
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12537440 - 05/10/10 04:44 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
I feel somehow, the seeing that there is no one to gain liberation, at the same time liberates all things
The absolute can not in anyway exclude any relativeness, its all included, so although the absolute is true - liberation is our nature
In that realization the absolute truth gets reflected into the relative, so beings then become liberated, seeing they are already liberated
Im glad your back, that may make sense to someone now
I understand this just fine.
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deff
just relax
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle] 1
#12537518 - 05/10/10 04:59 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
deff said:
yeah, compassion is simply the wish to remove suffering
That's not simple at all! It's a wonderful gift!
simple doesn't exclude wonderful 
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: deff]
#12537525 - 05/10/10 05:00 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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true, my bad 
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