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 Sprezzatura
Virtuoso
Registered: 10/01/09
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 Treated or Untreated? 
#12172860 - 03/09/10 08:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Getting ready to build a traditional style wooden picnic table, for outdoor use (obviously) and I read a few different opinions on which wood to use, but I can't decide.
I figure a lot of you guys to be pretty handy with things and was wondering if anyone had an opinion they could share.
Would you go with treated lumber and leave it be or untreated lumber and water seal and stain it?
Thanks
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Spectaculorum procedere debet
 
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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,358
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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if those were my only choices, I'd use treated, bleach the wood and use
sealant and stain on it, but I'm weird like that
Ideally I'd use Cedar, Teak or Jatoba (Brazilian Cherry), they cost more
than treated but the rot resistance is superb, they also take on a nice
tone as they weather a bit, the only thing I'd hold as better material
for outdoor use is Osage Orange and Black Locust, you'll die before they decay
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
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Az0th
quantum transfiguration
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 53,471
Loc: The Void
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Re: Treated or Untreated? (moved) [Re: Sprezzatura]
#12172950 - 03/09/10 08:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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 This thread was moved from The Pub.
Reason:
Done
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Hobbs
facts about opinions
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 520
Loc: Va
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Untreated lumber that was properly finished would looks immensely better, in my opinion.
Not only, but it would be much less hazardous to have food around. Pressure treated lumber is LOADED with detrimental chemicals.
Good luck, DIY woodworking projects rule. 
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legallyhomeless
mooch
Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 4,051
Loc: EZRA for the Refuge
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: Hobbs]
#12173224 - 03/09/10 09:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, chemicals are never good to have around food.
I made a table one time out of untreated. I sealed it but being out in the sun so long, the moisture that was it in started to bubble up through the seal. It looked like crap.
Basically I have no advise.
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 6 hours, 30 minutes
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use treated it smooth and planned u won't have to do anything with it. If ya get a piece of cedar it usaually rough (or pay high dollar for sanded)u don't want a splinter in your ass it hurts. i have one i built outta scrap lumber from building decks. i have seen people build seats and tables outta willow branchs or cypress branches and bend it, but its not very comfortable. I think treated will be your easy cheapeast way to go,but for what u buy them lumber for u might can just buy one already nailed to gether. I think there like 60 bucks or so for the picnic table.
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CoolNameHere
Mad Cyantist
Registered: 11/09/09
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Loc: PNW
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: SOUTHERN]
#12174728 - 03/10/10 01:18 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are quite a few rot resistant woods other than cedar, which is cheap-ish where I live. It depends what you are looking for. If you want something that looks good and is cheap but will need maintenance go with regular lumber and stain/seal it. If done properly you will only have to redo it every couplle of years. I hate the look of treated and it does contain all kinds of poisons. You can always go composite, I.E. Trex.
If it was me and I wanted a nice one I'd use one that Prisoner1 named or mahogany or redwood. All very nice, prices vary greatly depending on location. Ask you local lumber store.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Do not use pressure treated lumber of any kind for a table where food will be served. Teak or mahogany with nothing more than perhaps a moisture repeller like Thompson's would be best. I wouldn't even use that myself.
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 6 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: zappaisgod]
#12178374 - 03/10/10 05:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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lol they use pressure treated all the time for picnic tables i'm sure there r better safer woods but come on i'm not gonna let my food sit there long and its gonna be on a plate. people walk bare footed on pressure treated lumber i don't think your food will suck up toxins fast. Use what ya like. the new pressure treated it suppose to be safe to burn unlike the older treated wood. good luck
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Sprezzatura
Virtuoso
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: SOUTHERN]
#12178749 - 03/10/10 06:53 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I talked to the guy at the lumber yard and he said they don't use CCA's (Chromated Copper Arsenate) anymore in treated wood.
They use a less toxic ACQ (amine Copper Quat) and CA (Copper Azone).
I was told that pressure treated wood is commonly used for picnic tables because the wood prevents microorganism damage and rot/decay and can withstand weather changes.
They advise applying an oil-based wood sealer and rain repellent to outdoor furniture to prevent warping and to minimize exposure to potential chemical hazards in the wood.
He said, while there are still chemicals in the wood that when cut the sawdust can cause irritation to the skin and eyes, they are still generally safe to use for picnic tables, granted that you weren't preparing food on the table itself.
So basically, if you use a plate, like most people always did on picnic tables anyway, you're fine.
We'll likely just be sitting around drinking beer, chatting and playing cards and shit around it anyhow.
Thanks for the input guys... I went ahead and went with the pressure treated pine.... we'll see how it goes... I did some practice cuts today and I'm having a little trouble getting even and smooth angled cuts with my circular saw, but once I figure that out, it should be all good.
Cheers
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Spectaculorum procedere debet
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CoolNameHere
Mad Cyantist
Registered: 11/09/09
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Good stuff, nothing like buildinng something for your self. It is a trip to even hear of PT pine from my region.
As for the cuts, just buy a framing square for like $5 and you can use it as a guide.
Post some pics of the finished product.
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 823
Loc: south
Last seen: 6 hours, 30 minutes
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let me tell ya a little hint on using the pine.. its gonna warp and cup no matter what ya do .. what i did was used lumber that was already cuped and had been sitting out in the rain for 2 months. that way when i made my table i only used pieces that were still straight,and turned all the cups the same ways. it can make for a uncomfortable seat if the seat is cuped up instead of down.. just a little hint from a carpenter
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idiotek
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 30,091
Loc: USA
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Quote:
legallyhomeless said:
Yeah, chemicals are never good to have around food.
I made a table one time out of untreated. I sealed it but being out in the sun so long, the moisture that was it in started to bubble up through the seal. It looked like crap.
Basically I have no advise.
Sounds like you didn't let it season/dry out well enough before you sealed it.
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CoolNameHere
Mad Cyantist
Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 349
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: idiotek]
#12185698 - 03/11/10 09:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
1d10t3k said:
Quote:
legallyhomeless said:
Yeah, chemicals are never good to have around food.
I made a table one time out of untreated. I sealed it but being out in the sun so long, the moisture that was it in started to bubble up through the seal. It looked like crap.
Basically I have no advise.
Sounds like you didn't let it season/dry out well enough before you sealed it.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,358
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
Sprezzatura said:
He said, while there are still chemicals in the wood that when cut the sawdust can cause irritation to the skin and eyes
generally it is safe especially since you wont be eating directly on the table
if you buy treated woods, sticker it out so it can dry and air can
circulate, it'll take 4-6 months of time but it'll also stabilize the
wood and reduce the irritation from the sawdust... make sure it's
covered and add loads of weight to the top, I usually do it on a sheet
of plywood to spread the load without causing the top boards to bow
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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TexasMyco
Stranger
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12242184 - 03/21/10 03:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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treated wood for an outside picnic table is fine.
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Cyanesense
AMU's Fish Killa
Registered: 10/13/09
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: TexasMyco]
#12243843 - 03/21/10 07:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TexasMyco said:
treated wood for an outside picnic table is fine.
Yeah I mean I would personally-purely for asthetic reasons- rather laqueur up a non-treated wood picnic table for outside use.
But for practical purposes a treated lumber table would be better.
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Everything I say is totally false - and all my pictures were stolen from SWIM.
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Sprezzatura
Virtuoso
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: Cyanesense]
#12247684 - 03/22/10 10:20 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I finished the table, looks awesome... I'll post pictures when I can get a hold of a digital Camera.
I just bought a 12" Compound Miter Saw for future projects....IMO they're easier to use and more accurate than a circular Saw for what I'm using it for.
Here's what the saw looks like... got it for $200 at Lowes.
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Spectaculorum procedere debet
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CoolNameHere
Mad Cyantist
Registered: 11/09/09
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Quote:
Sprezzatura said:
I just bought a 12" Compound Miter Saw for future projects....IMO they're easier to use and more accurate than a circular Saw for what I'm using it for.
Here's what the saw looks like... got it for $200 at Lowes.
Ummm, yeah.
I thought we were looking for a cheap fix. In that case I hope you sprung for the attachable cutting table with extending arms. Seriously, if you are going to be using it a bunch there is nothing better, because if you are cutting a long piece of wood and the weight lifts it ever so slightly your joints won't match up.
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ShockValue
Because, ShockValue.
Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,008
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
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I know you're already done, and I'm looking forward to the pictures.
I think maybe I would have done pressure treated for the frame, and then use untreated teak for the surface of the table and the bench seats. Then let them naturally grey out with the sun and rain. Still looks nice IMHO.
Cool project though, I'm sure it looks nice.
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Sprezzatura
Virtuoso
Registered: 10/01/09
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Yeah, I'll be cutting pieces up to 8ft long... what's the cutting table cost?
I got the Miter saw because once my family, My mother's neighbors (I ended up giving my mom the table and I'm gonna myself another one) and a couple other people saw the table... of course they wanted me to make 'em one too.... So, I stand to make a few bucks on the side so I figured if I'm gonna make a few tables, invest in a good saw... if the cutting table is essential to good accurate cuts, I'll probably get that too.
I actually went with an octagon style table instead of the traditional style table, 4 1/2'X 4', which requires more angled cuts. I used a 1 1/2" Bit to drill out a hole for an Umbrella for the middle.. so it's kinda like a patio table. It doesn't have benches attached to it, which I've found that people (especially older folks) like because you can just pull chairs up to it and it makes for better back support than a traditional style picnic table.
It sits 6 people comfortably and with the design being roundish instead of rectangular, it makes for more intimate party settings I think (cook outs, poker, beer drinking, crab feasts etc.)
My mom's neighbor said her Brother bought a table that had the exact same design about three years ago, but it was made from Cedar (more expensive) and he paid $800.00 brand new for it... She didn't want PT wood, so I told her I'd use regular non PT lumber and sand it and water seal it... and she offered me $350 for it.... I bought the lumber, carriage bolts and screws last night and it only cost $60.00 for everything... so that's a about a $270-280 profit with all things considered.
They're nice sized, sturdy tables, so I think it's a good deal... pretty too. 
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Spectaculorum procedere debet
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CoolNameHere
Mad Cyantist
Registered: 11/09/09
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Loc: PNW
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Cutting table, also available at Lowes or HD, is about $200 and well worth it if you are going to do a bunch you can make a couple jigs for each piece and pump out all the cuttin in a day.
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Cyanesense
AMU's Fish Killa
Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 1,363
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Yeah. if you are thinking of making more you should definetly look into the cutting table that the saw can move along and shit
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Everything I say is totally false - and all my pictures were stolen from SWIM.
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
Registered: 03/29/09
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: Cyanesense]
#12256967 - 03/23/10 07:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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those cutting stands r nice.. i just lay a long 2by 12 down and nail a 3.5 inch block about 6 feet form the saw on both sides.. of course i always have my saw horses and it keeps from having to haul around more tools. i would like to try one out when i trim a house .. when i cut pickets i just nail the saw down to the 2by 12 and nail a block 42 inches from the center of my saw and go to wacking no measuring necessary after u get everything lined up and where it needs to be..
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lillFish
Daydreamer
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: SOUTHERN]
#12336939 - 04/05/10 06:56 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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damn, that really sounds like a fun project. I know one of those would look awesome under the pines in my backyard.
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cricket
Lord Cricket
Registered: 08/29/03
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Re: Treated or Untreated? [Re: lillFish]
#12409538 - 04/17/10 05:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've owned tables made from both treated and untreated but painted lumber.
My recomendation would be to go with untreated wood with several thin coats of quality outdoor latex paint.
Some of my reasons are.
Chemical exposure. Warm temps and spills draw chems to surface.
Treated lumber cost alot more.
Lasts longer without yearly re-treating.
Looks better over time. Little or no fading or staining.
Easier cleaning, Just hose it off and drip dry.
Smoother finish, comfort
Spills don't soak into wood and feed bacterial growth, safety.
You can also change the color of paint to match scheme of home, garden, yard.
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,278
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
Sprezzatura said:
Here's what the saw looks like... got it for $200 at Lowes.
You should check out harbor freight for cheap power tools. They have a decent miter saw for about $100 shipped:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91995
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