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 xyz789
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 41,853
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 Why are we taxed so much? *DELETED* 
#12025944 - 02/14/10 08:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by dr_gonzReason for deletion: a
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,432
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: xyz789]
#12025954 - 02/14/10 08:50 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know why the federal government pefers taking the brunt of their taxes from your paycheck (as opposed to taxing specific goods individually) because of the lump sum principle (I think that's what it was called????)
Dont know where to help you on finding that specific info though.
I personally have an extreme distaste (specifically) for the Estate Tax. It's the only one I really know about, and I think it's the most fucked up. In fact, i'm throwing around some ideas - and might write my masters thesis on it
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 myco99
mycoCoder
Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 999
Loc: USS Eldridge
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: meams]
#12026125 - 02/14/10 10:07 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Federal taxes are taken from income, as are state taxes....depending on the state. Most retail taxes, those happening at time of purchase, are state taxes. Property taxes are almost always county, local, and many states and local principalities have property tax income as a large portion of annual budgets.
So, yeah, we are taxed but it's coming from many different places. While lowering and removing taxes will always be popular political rhetoric and strategy, taxes are simply required at some level to have an operating nation, states, and local counties.
To see an overview of where your federal tax dollars go, google "Death and Taxes Poster", which is a visual diagram of the current year's federal budget and allocation.
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1100011/143/0x63/99...It's like watching the mycelium grow...
WARNING: You must be 21 years of age to experience hallucinations.
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blkjkrabbit
Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: myco99]
#12026839 - 02/14/10 01:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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to pay for the construction of massive concentration camps like the one under denver international airport and develop secret technologies that you and i will never have access too. WAIT I meant to fix bridges and roads and stuff... 
Edited by blkjkrabbit (02/14/10 01:27 PM)
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Groovy Grant
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 6,599
Loc: TX 
Last seen: 3 months, 17 days
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: xyz789]
#12027123 - 02/14/10 02:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Historically, taxes are extremely low currently. Especially if you make A LOT of money, your marginal federal taxes could be in the single digits. For everyone else, you pay taxes as follows:
6.2% goes to social security up to $106,800 for 2009
1.45% goes to medicare, with no limit
Neither of these are reduced by credits, or deductions
Federal taxes are as follows:
table of rates
Yet you would rarely ever actually pay that amount, with all the credits and deductions. So, in theory I'm in the 25% bracket, yet my federal taxes probably come out to about 14% with my pre-tax deductions (pension withholding, 401k contributions, health insurance, state tax credits, etc). As well as my student loan interest credit, etc.
That's on earned income. It's completely different on unearned income, such as interest and dividends. Which I am taxed at 15%. Also capital gains are taxed at 15% and 25%, for long and short positions respectively.
So if you made no earned income, but had all unearned income, you could in theory pay 0% or 10% taxes on unlimited unearned income. Probably not likely, but possible.
State taxes vary. I live in DC, so we have very different income taxes and vary high sales taxes (10% p.o.s. and 9% on liquor, but no tax on groceries.)
Also, another note, is lets say you make $150,000 in 2010, single with no deductions or credits claimed and you claim 0 deductions. That would put you in the 28% bracket, yet you won't pay 28% on all of that. You pay no taxes on the first $8,350, then $3,839.85 in taxes for dollar $8,351 to $33,950, then $12,074.75 for dollar $33,051 to $82,250, and finally you pay $18,129.72 in taxes from dollar $82,250 to $150,000.
So your federal income tax on $150,000 is $34,043.82, or 22.69%. In addition you'd pay $6,621.6 in social security tax and $2,250 in medicare taxes. For a total of $42,915.42 of total federal taxes, or 28.61% in federal taxes.
That also did not factor in the standard deductions of $5,700. Taxes really aren't as bad as people really want to make them out to be. The wealthier you are, the less in percentage terms you pay in taxes, which really should piss people off. I'm willing to bet in percentage terms I pay more in taxes then Donald Trump does.
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<3<3DowntroddenInDC <3<3
<3<3 Texas Jobs <3<3
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: xyz789]
#12027171 - 02/14/10 02:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why are we taxed so much?
To fund entitlement programs and national defense mostly. Our burden is peanuts however compared to the rich.
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Groovy Grant
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 6,599
Loc: TX
Last seen: 3 months, 17 days
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: DieCommie]
#12027207 - 02/14/10 02:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also to add on, have you seen all the CEO's especially at major banks recently, taking compensation not in salary but in stocks options and other deferred compensation?
This is not to align the CEO's interest with the company, at least not entirely. It's a tax dodge, as the long term gains are taxed at a much lower rate. Additionally, it's in their best interest to have the options depreciate over the period defined, as they can then claim a capital loss on the sale... Lots of clever ways out there, especially if you have a lot of money, to avoid paying your share.
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<3<3DowntroddenInDC <3<3
<3<3 Texas Jobs <3<3
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Groovy Grant
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 6,599
Loc: TX
Last seen: 3 months, 17 days
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: DieCommie]
#12027223 - 02/14/10 02:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd argue the opposite, the taxes the rich pay are mere peanuts compared the taxes we pay, in percentage terms.
5% of 100,000,000 is $5,000,000
Yet, 25% of $100,000 is $25,000.
Which do you think hurts more? Keeping 95% of your money, or 75%? In addition, in relative terms, it would hurt a lot more to lose 25,000 if you only had 100,000 compared to losing 5mil of the 100mil you had...
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<3<3DowntroddenInDC <3<3
<3<3 Texas Jobs <3<3
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blkjkrabbit
Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: DieCommie]
#12027505 - 02/14/10 03:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Why are we taxed so much?
To fund entitlement programs and national defense mostly. Our burden is peanuts however compared to the rich.
peanuts to who? people who can barely afford rent/utils need those little "crumbs" to survive.
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xyz789
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 41,853
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: blkjkrabbit]
#12027511 - 02/14/10 03:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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fuckin right, my brother. fuckin right
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: blkjkrabbit]
#12027972 - 02/14/10 04:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blkjkrabbit said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Why are we taxed so much?
To fund entitlement programs and national defense mostly. Our burden is peanuts however compared to the rich.
peanuts to who? people who can barely afford rent/utils need those little "crumbs" to survive.
People who can barely afford rent/utilities don't generally pay any federal income tax. I haven't paid federal income tax in 12 years of employment.
Contrary to what Groovy Grant says, the tax system is highly progressive and poor people pay zero. Even people who arnt that poor often pay zero - like me.
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,432
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: DieCommie]
#12027992 - 02/14/10 04:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dont pay shiiiiiiiiiiiiit cuz i dont make shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
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blkjkrabbit
Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: DieCommie]
#12028030 - 02/14/10 04:56 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
blkjkrabbit said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Why are we taxed so much?
To fund entitlement programs and national defense mostly. Our burden is peanuts however compared to the rich.
peanuts to who? people who can barely afford rent/utils need those little "crumbs" to survive.
People who can barely afford rent/utilities don't generally pay any federal income tax. I haven't paid federal income tax in 12 years of employment.
So the diminishing middle class isn't hurting then? They have plenty of cash to spare for taxes then? Okie.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: blkjkrabbit]
#12028052 - 02/14/10 04:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yea, they waste plenty of money on overpriced food and entertainment. They could easily pay their puny tax burden if they budgeted their money and didnt buy everything the TV told them too.
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RegisPhilburn
Stranger
Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 130
Last seen: 25 days, 9 hours
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: blkjkrabbit]
#12028084 - 02/14/10 05:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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i just cant believe that i am taxed when i die
vote Ron Paul
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blkjkrabbit
Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: DieCommie]
#12028109 - 02/14/10 05:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Yea, they waste plenty of money on overpriced food and entertainment. They could easily pay their puny tax burden if they budgeted their money and didnt buy everything the TV told them too.
I agree with you there is waste at every corner and people make zero effort to reduce this and become efficient. It's fucked on both sides, the sheeple are tards and the politrikians are tards. 
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Groovy Grant
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 6,599
Loc: TX
Last seen: 3 months, 17 days
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First, DieCommie how is that contrary to what I said? My hypothetical included no deductions or credits. I was demonstrating what "marginal" means versus the actual or "real" tax rate is. In addition, the tax code needs to be changed drastically. A living wage in Washington, DC is much different then a living wage in the rural midwest, yet they both have the same marginal tax rates. If I make $75,000 in DC, it's not at all like making $75,000 in Abilene, TX. Yet, ceteris paribus, both would pay the same in federal taxes, eroding the Washingtonian's ledger much faster.
Second, you are not taxed when you die. The person receiving may be taxed, but you as a decedent are not taxed. Additionally, the FET (federal estate tax) does not exist currently, last year it took $3,500,000 in net assets to kick in. Less than than 5% of those would died last year paid ANY Federal estate tax.
If you have specific examples of people getting taxed when they die, I'd be happy to refute them and explain the process of probate vs. non-probate, intestate vs. testate, trusts and all sorts of other legal documents. Although, all of my information is going to be tax specific to Maryland, as I am an Auditor for the State of Maryland, specializing in inheritance tax and probate fees, but in general it all seems to work the same way.
Also, you have unlimited federal and state deductions to your spouse to pass assets. Which hasn't always been the case.
It astounds me that so many blue collar, middle class people out there actually think all of these taxes apply to them. You're defending wealthy people's money from being taxed for the FIRST time. In addition, the ability to pass assets after death and even to control them, is not a right, it's a privilege.
Hope that clears up any misconceptions you may have had.
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<3<3DowntroddenInDC <3<3
<3<3 Texas Jobs <3<3
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,432
Loc: In a Tree
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Quote:
RegisPhilburn said:
i just cant believe that i am taxed when i die
vote Ron Paul
That isn't a ron paul thing -- republicans hate the estate tax too.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: meams]
#12028679 - 02/14/10 06:48 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ron Paul is a republican. 
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Flop Johnson
Praise Skatballah
Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
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Re: Why are we taxed so much? [Re: xyz789]
#12028699 - 02/14/10 06:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr_gonz said:
Why are we taxed so much?
you probably live in some socialist state
move to texas, no state income tax. cheap as hell to live here.
america has far lower taxes than most european countries.
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