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RoosterCogburn said:
It's not needed as mentioned... but for future reference, 70% is better at killing stuff due to the 30% water content. it can get through cell walls or something.

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Carl_Gauss said:


(BTW Pharm, it was mycelium in my jars, not trich. )

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andymc said:
Hi mate,

You said you're using foil lids - are you using 1 layer of foil or 2?

This tek: http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek describes folding foil in half for a double-thick bottom layer, then loosely adding a top layer of foil before sterilization.

When you're ready to innoc, remove the top layer of foil and discard, then alco-wipe the bottom layer and innoc through it.  Leave the bottom foil in place for colonization.

This way has worked perfectly for me so far, and in a common-sense way I can't think of many opportunities for contams if everything is sterilized properly.

That said, *every* jar having the same contams at the innoc points sounds like Ralf sold you contaminated syringe(s) - I'm sure it can happen even with the best/most respected dealer) since it sounds like you're pretty conscientious about your cleanliness.  Maybe tell Ralf your situation and they'll comp you another syringe?

Good luck

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nooneman said:

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andymc said:
Hi mate,

You said you're using foil lids - are you using 1 layer of foil or 2?

This tek: http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek describes folding foil in half for a double-thick bottom layer, then loosely adding a top layer of foil before sterilization.

When you're ready to innoc, remove the top layer of foil and discard, then alco-wipe the bottom layer and innoc through it.  Leave the bottom foil in place for colonization.

This way has worked perfectly for me so far, and in a common-sense way I can't think of many opportunities for contams if everything is sterilized properly.

That said, *every* jar having the same contams at the innoc points sounds like Ralph sold you contaminated syringe(s) - I'm sure it can happen even with the best/most respected dealer) since it sounds like you're pretty conscientious about your cleanliness.  Maybe tell Ralph your situation and they'll comp you another syringe?

Good luck

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This is incorrect. Never, ever, EVER leave the foil on jars. That is almost the #1 source of noob contam. Under no circumstances should you leave the foil on jars.

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andymc said:

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nooneman said:

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andymc said:
Hi mate,

You said you're using foil lids - are you using 1 layer of foil or 2?

This tek: http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek describes folding foil in half for a double-thick bottom layer, then loosely adding a top layer of foil before sterilization.

When you're ready to innoc, remove the top layer of foil and discard, then alco-wipe the bottom layer and innoc through it.  Leave the bottom foil in place for colonization.

This way has worked perfectly for me so far, and in a common-sense way I can't think of many opportunities for contams if everything is sterilized properly.

That said, *every* jar having the same contams at the innoc points sounds like Ralph sold you contaminated syringe(s) - I'm sure it can happen even with the best/most respected dealer) since it sounds like you're pretty conscientious about your cleanliness.  Maybe tell Ralph your situation and they'll comp you another syringe?

Good luck

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This is incorrect. Never, ever, EVER leave the foil on jars. That is almost the #1 source of noob contam. Under no circumstances should you leave the foil on jars.

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Alright then, but please explain to the class how a sterilized (PCd for example) piece of foil will introduce contams (check the tek I linked to).

0 contams so far with this method...

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nooneman said:
First, the foil is not sterile the moment you take it out of the PC. Second, the foil will collect condensation from the jar cooling, which will then drip moisture into what is supposed to be the dry verm layer. Third, foil prevents proper gas exchange, which encourages contam. You should always take your foil off as soon as you get done PCing. This has been known for some time. Just because you've never had a contam yet does not mean that you should leave the foil on. You're drastically increasing your chance of contamination if you do.

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andymc said:

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nooneman said:
First, the foil is not sterile the moment you take it out of the PC. Second, the foil will collect condensation from the jar cooling, which will then drip moisture into what is supposed to be the dry verm layer. Third, foil prevents proper gas exchange, which encourages contam. You should always take your foil off as soon as you get done PCing. This has been known for some time. Just because you've never had a contam yet does not mean that you should leave the foil on. You're drastically increasing your chance of contamination if you do.

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Your first statement suggests that you either a) still haven't read the tek I linked to, but with which you strongly disagree; or b) have poor reading comprehension skills.  The covered bottom layer of foil is immediately contaminated, hmm?  Really, even though you only remove the covering layer in the glove box at innoc time?  And this is not remedied by alco-wiping the inoculation points before inoculation in the glove box?  And it's worse than innoculating through an exposed dry verm layer which somehow does not get contaminated?  I think I need a second opinion.

Your second 2 statements also sound dubious, but I guess you're much more experienced with these things.  Can you explain how foil with innoc holes in it creates an airtight seal that prevents gas exchange?  My colonizing jars want to know.

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nooneman said:
I go by the RR videos, and you should too.

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Well, I guess that's settled then.  <facetious> If you do that, then it must be the only correct way </facetious>

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nooneman said:
The tek you linked is irrelevant, there are plenty of old worthless teks.

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nooneman said:
You shouldn't be using alcohol, it doesn't sterilize anything.

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nooneman said:
And yes, the underside of the foil is contaminated.

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nooneman said:
Your dry verm layer should only be exposed to air via the inoculation holes. You never expose the dry verm layer to anything except the holes and your needle. Your jars do have lids, don't they?

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nooneman said:
You should be removing the foil the moment the jar comes out of PC, if not you're risking contam.

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Totally illogical, if you've read the tek I linked to, which you haven't.  Removing the foil lid after PCing would expose the dry verm to the open air, because there is no jar lid, but you missed that because you didn't read it.

Listen nooneman, you don't have to read the tek I use, but then maybe you shouldn't criticize and pooh-pooh what you don't understand.  I suspect you are posting knee-jerk reactions based on some other stuff you read somewhere else, and can be safely ignored in this instance.

Sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread.  I'm going to sign off this thread now; I was trying to be helpful, not start an argument.  If what you've been doing isn't working, you might try the tek I linked.  You know the old expression "you can't argue with results"?  That's what nooneman is doing

PS> I've watched all the RR clips online.  Very informative.  RR is a cultivation guru.  I just followed a different tek.  Hope that's okay.

PPS> I skip the part about putting the 'outer' foil lid upside-down (!?!) during inoculation, and then putting it back on the jar.  Sounds counterproductive to me.  Personally I just put surgical tape over the inoculation holes, though I don't think that's necessary.

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andymc said:

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nooneman said:
I go by the RR videos, and you should too.

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Well, I guess that's settled then.  <facetious> If you do that, then it must be the only correct way </facetious>

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nooneman said:
The tek you linked is irrelevant, there are plenty of old worthless teks.

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No one (and no method) keeps a 0% contamination rate for long, but so far with this tek, and 24 jars, I've had 100% success.  So, calling this method 'irrelevant' and 'worthless' seems pretty extreme, unless you have a very broad definition of 'worthless'

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nooneman said:
You shouldn't be using alcohol, it doesn't sterilize anything.

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This will come as a shock to a lot of shroomery posters, not to mention medical professionals.  You should be publishing this bit of science more widely, for the benefit of all humanity.

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nooneman said:
And yes, the underside of the foil is contaminated.

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If you say so, I guess it is mate.

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nooneman said:
Your dry verm layer should only be exposed to air via the inoculation holes. You never expose the dry verm layer to anything except the holes and your needle. Your jars do have lids, don't they?

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Yet more proof that you have failed to read or understand the tek that you have condemned as worthless and irrelevant.

Some of us live in countries other than the US, where correctly-shaped canning jars with lids can be difficult and/or expensive to obtain.  As in this tek, we might use 'jars' which are in fact half-pint drinking glasses instead.  Without lids (other than the foil 'lid').  Just as described in the tek you didn't read.

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nooneman said:
You should be removing the foil the moment the jar comes out of PC, if not you're risking contam.

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Totally illogical, if you've read the tek I linked to, which you haven't.  Removing the foil lid after PCing would expose the dry verm to the open air, because there is no jar lid, but you missed that because you didn't read it.

Listen nooneman, you don't have to read the tek I use, but then maybe you shouldn't criticize and pooh-pooh what you don't understand.  I suspect you are posting knee-jerk reactions based on some other stuff you read somewhere else, and can be safely ignored in this instance.

Sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread.  I'm going to sign off this thread now; I was trying to be helpful, not start an argument.  If what you've been doing isn't working, you might try the tek I linked.  You know the old expression "you can't argue with results"?  That's what nooneman is doing

PS> I've watched all the RR clips online.  Very informative.  RR is a cultivation guru.  I just followed a different tek.  Hope that's okay.

PPS> I skip the part about putting the 'outer' foil lid upside-down (!?!) during inoculation, and then putting it back on the jar.  Sounds counterproductive to me.  Personally I just put surgical tape over the inoculation holes, though I don't think that's necessary.

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nooneman said:
The tek you used has been proven what, in 24 glasses? The pftek has been proven in thousands of jars. Probably tens of thousands. If you're in a country where you can't get jars, then order them online. There is nothing illegal about mason jars.

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This is like banging my head against a wall, but I just can't resist.

The tek we've been arguing about IS PFtek.  It's called "PF Tek For Simple Minds" and it's referenced repeatedly throughout the shroomery.  But you don't know that because...?  Once again, you didn't read it.  You didn't even read the goddamned title.

What's more, nobody said anything about Mason jars being illegal.  What I did say was that (in countries where people generally don't do preserving) they can be difficult and/or expensive to get.  I'm sure I could get an albino yak delivered to my door from Mongolia if I was willing to pay whatever that takes.

But why should I pay to ship heavy breakable glassware halfway round the globe?  I've got great results from using drinking glasses with foil lids, just like the tek describes.  So far, they don't contaminate.  It's unbroke, so I ain't fixing it.  I'm not sure why you simply cannot accept this as possibly, just maybe, a good method.

On second thought, I do know why: you didn't read it and don't know what you're talking about.

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MagicJames said:
I put rubbing alcohol in a mister and mist every surface before inoculation.

I use foil lids too..

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LifeLike said:
sorry to but into your guys little thing. but why would you give me advice on double layering with tin foil knowing i had jars to use? i didnt do it, but it was bad advice nonetheless.  im sure foiling your glass works fine in its own way, but this isnt about that tek. im asking for advice on the jars, not scrubby glass cakes.

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