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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america!
    #11702388 - 12/22/09 10:42 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Hopefully people are aware the majority of the US drinking supply is flouridated under the guise of dental benefits. Oh, and prisoners of war/holocaustees water was flouridated. Go back to sleep America :nonono:

by Paul Connett, PhD
Professor of Chemistry
St. Lawrence University
Canton, NY 13617

1) Fluoride is not an essential nutrient (NRC 1993 and IOM 1997). No disease has ever been linked to a fluoride deficiency. Humans can have perfectly good teeth without fluoride.

2) Fluoridation is not necessary. Most Western European countries are not fluoridated and have experienced the same decline in dental decay as the US (See data from World Health Organization in Appendix 1, and the time trends presented graphically at http://www.fluoridealert.org/who-dmft.htm ). The reasons given by countries for not fluoridating are presented in Appendix 2.)

3) Fluoridation's role in the decline of tooth decay is in serious doubt. The largest survey ever conducted in the US (over 39,000 children from 84 communities) by the National Institute of Dental Research showed little difference in tooth decay among children in fluoridated and non-fluoridated communities (Hileman 1989). According to NIDR researchers, the study found an average difference of only 0.6 DMFS (Decayed Missing and Filled Surfaces) in the permanent teeth of children aged 5-17 residing in either fluoridated or unfluoridated areas (Brunelle and Carlos, 1990). This difference is less than one tooth surface! There are 128 tooth surfaces in a child's mouth. This result was not shown to be statistically significant. In a review commissioned by the Ontario government, Dr. David Locker concluded:

    "The magnitude of [fluoridation's] effect is not large in absolute terms, is often not statistically significant and may not be of clinical significance" (Locker 1999).

4) Where fluoridation has been discontinued in communities from Canada, the former East Germany, Cuba and Finland, dental decay has not increased but has actually decreased (Maupome 2001; Kunzel and Fischer,1997,2000; Kunzel 2000 and Seppa 2000).

5) There have been numerous recent reports of dental crises in US cities (e.g. Boston, Cincinnati, New York City) which have been fluoridated for over 20 years. There appears to be a far greater (inverse) relationship between tooth decay and income level than with water fluoride levels.

6) Modern research (e.g. Diesendorf 1986; Colquhoun 1997, and De Liefde, 1998) shows that decay rates were coming down before fluoridation was introduced and have continued to decline even after its benefits would have been maximized. Many other factors influence tooth decay. Some recent studies have found that tooth decay actually increases as the fluoride concentration in the water increases (Olsson 1979; Retief 1979; Mann 1987, 1990; Steelink 1992; Teotia 1994; Grobleri 2001; Awadia 2002 and Ekanayake 2002).

7) The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC 1999, 2001) has now acknowledged the findings of many leading dental researchers, that the mechanism of fluoride's benefits are mainly TOPICAL not SYSTEMIC. Thus, you don't have to swallow fluoride to protect teeth. As the benefits of fluoride (if any exist) are topical, and the risks are systemic, it makes more sense, for those who want to take the risks, to deliver the fluoride directly to the tooth in the form of toothpaste. Since swallowing fluoride is unnecessary, there is no reason to force people (against their will) to drink fluoride in their water supply. This position was recently shared by Dr. Douglas Carnall, the associate editor of the British Medical Journal. His editorial appears in Appendix 3.

8) Despite being prescribed by doctors for over 50 years, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has never approved any fluoride product designed for ingestion as safe or effective. Fluoride supplements are designed to deliver the same amount of fluoride as ingested daily from fluoridated water (Kelly 2000).

9) The US fluoridation program has massively failed to achieve one of its key objectives, i.e. to lower dental decay rates while holding down dental fluorosis (mottled and discolored enamel), a condition known to be caused by fluoride. The goal of the early promoters of fluoridation was to limit dental fluorosis (in its mildest form) to 10% of children (NRC 1993, pp. 6-7). A major US survey has found 30% of children in optimally fluoridated areas had dental fluorosis on at least two teeth (Heller 1997), while smaller studies have found up to 80% of children impacted (Williams 1990; Lalumandier 1995 and Morgan 1998). The York Review estimates that up to 48% of children in optimally fluoridated areas worldwide have dental fluorosis in all forms and 12.5% with symptoms of aesthetic concern (McDonagh, 2000).

10) Dental fluorosis means that a child has been overdosed on fluoride. While the mechanism by which the enamel is damaged is not definitively known, it appears fluorosis may be a result of either inhibited enzymes in the growing teeth (Dan Besten 1999), or through fluoride's interference with G-protein signaling mechanisms (Matsuo 1996). In a study in Mexico, Alarcon-Herrera (2001) has shown a linear correlation between the severity of dental fluorosis and the frequency of bone fractures in children.

11) The level of fluoride put into water (1 ppm) is up to 200 times higher than normally found in mothers' milk (0.005 – 0.01 ppm) (Ekstrand 1981; Institute of Medicine 1997). There are no benefits, only risks, for infants ingesting this heightened level of fluoride at such an early age (this is an age where susceptibility to environmental toxins is particularly high).

12) Fluoride is a cumulative poison. On average, only 50% of the fluoride we ingest each day is excreted through the kidneys. The remainder accumulates in our bones, pineal gland, and other tissues. If the kidney is damaged, fluoride accumulation will increase, and with it, the likelihood of harm.

13) Fluoride is very biologically active even at low concentrations. It interferes with hydrogen bonding (Emsley 1981) and inhibits numerous enzymes (Waldbott 1978).

14) When complexed with aluminum, fluoride interferes with G-proteins (Bigay 1985, 1987). Such interactions give aluminum-fluoride complexes the potential to interfere with many hormonal and some neurochemical signals (Strunecka & Patocka 1999, Li 2003).

15) Fluoride has been shown to be mutagenic, cause chromosome damage and interfere with the enzymes involved with DNA repair in a variety of cell and tissue studies (Tsutsui 1984; Caspary 1987; Kishi 1993 and Mihashi 1996). Recent studies have also found a correlation between fluoride exposure and chromosome damage in humans (Sheth 1994; Wu 1995; Meng 1997 and Joseph 2000).

16) Fluoride forms complexes with a large number of metal ions, which include metals which are needed in the body (like calcium and magnesium) and metals (like lead and aluminum) which are toxic to the body. This can cause a variety of problems. For example, fluoride interferes with enzymes where magnesium is an important co-factor, and it can help facilitate the uptake of aluminum and lead into tissues where these metals wouldn't otherwise go (Mahaffey 1976; Allain 1996; Varner 1998).

17) Rats fed for one year with 1 ppm fluoride in their water, using either sodium fluoride or aluminum fluoride, had morphological changes to their kidneys and brains, an increased uptake of aluminum in the brain, and the formation of beta amyloid deposits which are characteristic of Alzheimers disease (Varner 1998).

18) Aluminum fluoride was recently nominated by the Environmental Protection Agency and National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences for testing by the National Toxicology Program. According to EPA and NIEHS, aluminum fluoride currently has a "high health research priority" due to its "known neurotoxicity" (BNA, 2000). If fluoride is added to water which contains aluminum, than aluminum fluoride complexes will form.

19) Animal experiments show that fluoride accumulates in the brain and exposure alters mental behavior in a manner consistent with a neurotoxic agent (Mullenix 1995). Rats dosed prenatally demonstrated hyperactive behavior. Those dosed postnatally demonstrated hypoactivity (i.e. under activity or "couch potato" syndrome). More recent animal experiments have reported that fluoride can damage the brain (Wang 1997; Guan 1998; Varner 1998; Zhao 1998; Zhang 1999; Lu 2000; Shao 2000; Sun 2000; Bhatnagar 2002; Chen 2002, 2003; Long 2002; Shivarajashankara 2002a, b; Shashi 2003 and Zhai 2003) and impact learning and behavior (Paul 1998; Zhang 1999, 2001; Sun 2000; Ekambaram 2001; Bhatnagar 2002).

20) Five studies from China show a lowering of IQ in children associated with fluoride exposure (Lin Fa-Fu 1991; Li 1995; Zhao 1996; Lu 2000; and Xiang 2003a, b). One of these studies (Lin Fa-Fu 1991) indicates that even just moderate levels of fluoride exposure (e.g. 0.9 ppm in the water) can exacerbate the neurological defects of iodine deficiency.

21) Studies by Jennifer Luke (2001) showed that fluoride accumulates in the human pineal gland to very high levels. In her Ph.D. thesis Luke has also shown in animal studies that fluoride reduces melatonin production and leads to an earlier onset of puberty (Luke 1997).

22) In the first half of the 20th century, fluoride was prescribed by a number of European doctors to reduce the activity of the thyroid gland for those suffering from hyperthyroidism (over active thyroid) (Stecher 1960; Waldbott 1978). With water fluoridation, we are forcing people to drink a thyroid-depressing medication which could, in turn, serve to promote higher levels of hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) in the population, and all the subsequent problems related to this disorder. Such problems include depression, fatigue, weight gain, muscle and joint pains, increased cholesterol levels, and heart disease.

It bears noting that according to the Department of Health and Human Services (1991) fluoride exposure in fluoridated communities is estimated to range from 1.6 to 6.6 mg/day, which is a range that actually overlaps the dose (2.3 - 4.5 mg/day) shown to decrease the functioning of the human thyroid (Galletti & Joyet 1958). This is a remarkable fact, particularly considering the rampant and increasing problem of hypothyroidism in the United States (in 1999, the second most prescribed drug of the year was Synthroid, which is a hormone replacement drug used to treat an underactive thyroid). In Russia, Bachinskii (1985) found a lowering of thyroid function, among otherwise healthy people, at 2.3 ppm fluoride in water.

23) Some of the early symptoms of skeletal fluorosis, a fluoride-induced bone and joint disease that impacts millions of people in India, China, and Africa , mimic the symptoms of arthritis (Singh 1963; Franke 1975; Teotia 1976; Carnow 1981; Czerwinski 1988; DHHS 1991). According to a review on fluoridation by Chemical & Engineering News, "Because some of the clinical symptoms mimic arthritis, the first two clinical phases of skeletal fluorosis could be easily misdiagnosed" (Hileman 1988). Few if any studies have been done to determine the extent of this misdiagnosis, and whether the high prevalence of arthritis in America (1 in 3 Americans have some form of arthritis - CDC, 2002) is related to our growing fluoride exposure, which is highly plausible. The causes of most forms of arthritis (e.g. osteoarthritis) are unknown.

24) In some studies, when high doses of fluoride (average 26 mg per day) were used in trials to treat patients with osteoporosis in an effort to harden their bones and reduce fracture rates, it actually led to a HIGHER number of fractures, particularly hip fractures (Inkovaara 1975; Gerster 1983; Dambacher 1986; O’Duffy 1986; Hedlund 1989; Bayley 1990; Gutteridge 1990. 2002; Orcel 1990; Riggs 1990 and Schnitzler 1990). The cumulative doses used in these trials are exceeded by the lifetime cumulative doses being experienced by many people living in fluoridated communities.

25) Nineteen studies (three unpublished, including one abstract) since 1990 have examined the possible relationship of fluoride in water and hip fracture among the elderly. Eleven of these studies found an association, eight did not. One study found a dose-related increase in hip fracture as the concentration of fluoride rose from 1 ppm to 8 ppm (Li 2001). Hip fracture is a very serious issue for the elderly, as a quarter of those who have a hip fracture die within a year of the operation, while 50 percent never regain an independent existence (All 19 of these studies are referenced as a group in the reference section).

26) The only government-sanctioned animal study to investigate if fluoride causes cancer, found a dose-dependent increase in cancer in the target organ (bone) of the fluoride-treated (male) rats (NTP 1990). The initial review of this study also reported an increase in liver and oral cancers, however, all non-bone cancers were later downgraded – with a questionable rationale - by a government-review panel (Marcus 1990). In light of the importance of this study, EPA Professional Headquarters Union has requested that Congress establish an independent review to examine the study's results (Hirzy 2000).

27) A review of national cancer data in the US by the National Cancer Institute (NCI) revealed a significantly higher rate of bone cancer in young men in fluoridated versus unfluoridated areas (Hoover 1991). While the NCI concluded that fluoridation was not the cause, no explanation was provided to explain the higher rates in the fluoridated areas. A smaller study from New Jersey (Cohn 1992) found bone cancer rates to be up to 6 times higher in young men living in fluoridated versus unfluoridated areas. Other epidemiological studies have failed to find this relationship (Mahoney 1991; Freni 1992).

28) Fluoride administered to animals at high doses wreaks havoc on the male reproductive system - it damages sperm and increases the rate of infertility in a number of different species (Kour 1980; Chinoy 1989; Chinoy 1991; Susheela 1991; Chinoy 1994; Kumar 1994; Narayana 1994a, b; Zhao 1995; Elbetieha 2000; Ghosh 2002 and Zakrzewska 2002). While studies conducted at the FDA have failed to find reproductive effects in rats (Sprando 1996, 1997, 1998), an epidemiological study from the US has found increased rates of infertility among couples living in areas with 3 or more ppm fluoride in the water (Freni 1994), and 2 studies have found a reduced level of circulating testosterone in males living in high fluoride areas (Susheela 1996 and Barot 1998).

29) The fluoridation program has been very poorly monitored. There has never been a comprehensive analysis of the fluoride levels in the bones, blood, or urine of the American people or the citizens of other fluoridated countries. Based on the sparse data that has become available, however, it is increasingly evident that some people in the population – particularly people with kidney disease - are accumulating fluoride levels that have been associated with harm to both animals and humans, particularly harm to bone (see Connett 2004).

30) Once fluoride is put in the water it is impossible to control the dose each individual receives. This is because 1) some people (e.g. manual laborers, athletes, diabetics, and people with kidney disease) drink more water than others, and 2) we receive fluoride from sources other than the water supply. Other sources of fluoride include food and beverages processed with fluoridated water (Kiritsy 1996 and Heilman 1999), fluoridated dental products (Bentley 1999 and Levy 1999), mechanically deboned meat (Fein 2001), teas (Levy 1999), and pesticide residues on food (Stannard 1991 and Burgstahler 1997).

31) Fluoridation is unethical because individuals are not being asked for their informed consent prior to medication. This is standard practice for all medication, and one of the key reasons why most of western Europe has ruled against fluoridation (see appendix 2).

As one doctor aptly stated, "No physician in his right senses would prescribe for a person he has never met, whose medical history he does not know, a substance which is intended to create bodily change, with the advice: 'Take as much as you like, but you will take it for the rest of your life because some children suffer from tooth decay.’ It is a preposterous notion."

32) While referenda are preferential to imposed policies from central government, it still leaves the problem of individual rights versus majority rule. Put another way -- does a voter have the right to require that their neighbor ingest a certain medication (even if it's against that neighbor's will)?

33) Some individuals appear to be highly sensitive to fluoride as shown by case studies and double blind studies (Shea 1967, Waldbott 1978 and Moolenburg 1987). In one study, which lasted 13 years, Feltman and Kosel (1961) showed that about 1% of patients given 1 mg of fluoride each day developed negative reactions. Can we as a society force these people to ingest fluoride?

34) According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR 1993), and other researchers (Juncos & Donadio 1972; Marier & Rose 1977 and Johnson 1979), certain subsets of the population may be particularly vulnerable to fluoride's toxic effects; these include: the elderly, diabetics and people with poor kidney function. Again, can we in good conscience force these people to ingest fluoride on a daily basis for their entire lives?

35) Also vulnerable are those who suffer from malnutrition (e.g. calcium, magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin D and iodide deficiencies and protein poor diets) (Massler & Schour 1952; Marier & Rose 1977; Lin Fa-Fu 1991; Chen 1997; Teotia 1998). Those most likely to suffer from poor nutrition are the poor, who are precisely the people being targeted by new fluoridation programs. While being at heightened risk, poor families are less able to afford avoidance measures (e.g. bottled water or removal equipment).

36) Since dental decay is most concentrated in poor communities, we should be spending our efforts trying to increase the access to dental care for poor families. The real "Oral Health Crisis" that exists today in the United States, is not a lack of fluoride but poverty and lack of dental insurance. The Surgeon General has estimated that 80% of dentists in the US do not treat children on Medicaid.

37) Fluoridation has been found to be ineffective at preventing one of the most serious oral health problems facing poor children, namely, baby bottle tooth decay, otherwise known as early childhood caries (Barnes 1992 and Shiboski 2003).

38) The early studies conducted in 1945 -1955 in the US, which helped to launch fluoridation, have been heavily criticized for their poor methodology and poor choice of control communities (De Stefano 1954; Sutton 1959, 1960 and 1996; Ziegelbecker 1970). According to Dr. Hubert Arnold, a statistician from the University of California at Davis, the early fluoridation trials "are especially rich in fallacies, improper design, invalid use of statistical methods, omissions of contrary data, and just plain muddleheadedness and hebetude." In 2000, the British Government’s “York Review” could give no fluoridation trial a grade A classification – despite 50 years of research (McDonagh 2000, see Appendix 3 for commentary).

39) The US Public Health Service first endorsed fluoridation in 1950, before one single trial had been completed (McClure 1970)!

40) Since 1950, it has been found that fluorides do little to prevent pit and fissure tooth decay, a fact that even the dental community has acknowledged (Seholle 1984; Gray 1987; PHS 1993; and Pinkham 1999). This is significant because pit and fissure tooth decay represents up to 85% of the tooth decay experienced by children today (Seholle 1984 and Gray 1987).

41) Despite the fact that we are exposed to far more fluoride today than we were in 1945 (when fluoridation began), the "optimal" fluoridation level is still 1 part per million, the same level deemed optimal in 1945! (Marier & Rose 1977; Levy 1999; Rozier 1999 and Fomon 2000).

42) The chemicals used to fluoridate water in the US are not pharmaceutical grade. Instead, they come from the wet scrubbing systems of the superphosphate fertilizer industry. These chemicals (90% of which are sodium fluorosilicate and fluorosilicic acid), are classified hazardous wastes contaminated with various impurities. Recent testing by the National Sanitation Foundation suggest that the levels of arsenic in these chemicals are relatively high (up to 1.6 ppb after dilution into public water) and of potential concern (NSF 2000 and Wang 2000).

43) These hazardous wastes have not been tested comprehensively. The chemical usually tested in animal studies is pharmaceutical grade sodium fluoride, not industrial grade fluorosilicic acid. The assumption being made is that by the time this waste product has been diluted, all the fluorosilicic acid will have been converted into free fluoride ion, and the other toxics and radioactive isotopes will be so dilute that they will not cause any harm, even with lifetime exposure. These assumptions have not been examined carefully by scientists, independent of the fluoridation program.

44) Studies by Masters and Coplan (1999, 2000) show an association between the use of fluorosilicic acid (and its sodium salt) to fluoridate water and an increased uptake of lead into children's blood. Because of lead’s acknowledged ability to damage the child’s developing brain, this is a very serious finding yet it is being largely ignored by fluoridating countries.

45) Sodium fluoride is an extremely toxic substance -- just 200 mg of fluoride ion is enough to kill a young child, and just 3-5 grams (e.g. a teaspoon) is enough to kill an adult. Both children (swallowing tablets/gels) and adults (accidents involving fluoridation equipment and filters on dialysis machines) have died from excess exposure.

46) Some of the earliest opponents of fluoridation were biochemists and at least 14 Nobel Prize winners are among numerous scientists who have expressed their reservations about the practice of fluoridation (see appendix 4).

47) The recent Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology, Dr. Arvid Carlsson (2000), was one of the leading opponents of fluoridation in Sweden, and part of the panel that recommended that the Swedish government reject the practice, which they did in 1971. According to Carlsson:

    "I am quite convinced that water fluoridation, in a not-too-distant future, will be consigned to medical history...Water fluoridation goes against leading principles of pharmacotherapy, which is progressing from a stereotyped medication - of the type 1 tablet 3 times a day - to a much more individualized therapy as regards both dosage and selection of drugs. The addition of drugs to the drinking water means exactly the opposite of an individualized therapy" (Carlsson 1978).

48) While pro-fluoridation officials continue to promote fluoridation with undiminished fervor, they cannot defend the practice in open public debate – even when challenged to do so by organizations such as the Association for Science in the Public Interest, the American College of Toxicology, or the US Environmental Protection Agency (Bryson 2004). According to Dr. Michael Easley, a prominent lobbyist for fluoridation in the US, "Debates give the illusion that a scientific controversy exists when no credible people support the fluorophobics' view" (See appendix 5).

In light of proponents’ refusal to debate this issue, Dr. Edward Groth, a Senior Scientist at Consumers Union, observed that "the political profluoridation stance has evolved into a dogmatic, authoritarian, essentially antiscientific posture, one that discourages open debate of scientific issues" (Martin 1991).

49) Many scientists, doctors and dentists who have spoken out publicly on this issue have been subjected to censorship and intimidation (Martin 1991). Most recently, Dr. Phyllis Mullenix was fired from her position as Chair of Toxicology at Forsythe Dental Center for publishing her findings on fluoride and the brain; and Dr. William Marcus was fired from the EPA for questioning the government’s handling of the NTP’s fluoride-cancer study (Bryson 2004). Tactics like this would not be necessary if those promoting fluoridation were on secure scientific ground.

50) The Union representing the scientists at US EPA headquarters in Washington DC is now on record as opposing water fluoridation (Hirzy 1999). According to the Union’s Senior Vice President, Dr. William Hirzy:

    "In summary, we hold that fluoridation is an unreasonable risk. That is, the toxicity of fluoride is so great and the purported benefits associated with it are so small - if there are any at all - that requiring every man, woman and child in America to ingest it borders on criminal behavior on the part of governments."

Conclusion

When it comes to controversies surrounding toxic chemicals, invested interests traditionally do their very best to discount animal studies and quibble with epidemiological findings. In the past, political pressures have led government agencies to drag their feet on regulating asbestos, benzene, DDT, PCBs, tetraethyl lead, tobacco and dioxins. With fluoridation we have had a fifty year delay. Unfortunately, because government officials have put so much of their credibility on the line defending fluoridation, and because of the huge liabilities waiting in the wings if they admit that fluoridation has caused an increase in hip fracture, arthritis, bone cancer, brain disorders or thyroid problems, it will be very difficult for them to speak honestly and openly about the issue. But they must, not only to protect millions of people from unnecessary harm, but to protect the notion that, at its core, public health policy must be based on sound science not political expediency. They have a tool with which to do this: it's called the Precautionary Principle. Simply put, this says: if in doubt leave it out. This is what most European countries have done and their children's teeth have not suffered, while their public's trust has been strengthened.

It is like a question from a Kafka play. Just how much doubt is needed on just one of the health concerns identified above, to override a benefit, which when quantified in the largest survey ever conducted in the US, amounts to less than one tooth surface (out of 128) in a child's mouth?

For those who would call for further studies, I say fine. Take the fluoride out of the water first and then conduct all the studies you want. This folly must end without further delay.





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InvisiblePoid
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11702419 - 12/22/09 10:47 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blkjkrabbit said:
Hopefully people are aware the majority of the US drinking supply is flouridated under the guise of dental benefits. Oh, and prisoners of war/holocaustees water was flouridated. Go back to sleep America :nonono:


Isn't fluoride, like, good for your teeth?

:smileyfrog:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSerialDiscrepancy
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11702458 - 12/22/09 10:51 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

yea fluoride also calcifies your pineal gland..you know that part of your brain that produces DMT


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Edited by SerialDiscrepancy (12/22/09 10:52 PM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702463 - 12/22/09 10:52 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I don't totally doubt that, but would still like to see some reliable source which backs up that statement.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSalomon
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11702480 - 12/22/09 10:54 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

FUCK THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.

and

FUCK YO TEEFFF NIGGA!


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:todcasil::dontspillme::dontspillme::todcasil:


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OfflineSerialDiscrepancy
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11702483 - 12/22/09 10:54 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I don't totally doubt that, but would still like to see some reliable source which backs up that statement.



http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/ google is your friend..In conclusion, the human pineal gland contains the highest concentration of fluoride in the body


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Edited by SerialDiscrepancy (12/22/09 10:56 PM)


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InvisibleMnboardin
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702492 - 12/22/09 10:56 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
yea fluoride also calcifies your pineal gland..you know that part of your brain that produces DMT :crazy2:




:facepalm:

The pineal gland has not been proven to produce DMT.




I agree that fluoride should not be added to the municipal water supplies.

For one, it is an ethical issue; forced drugging???

And second, well the ops post.


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:hamletmonkey:


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Offlinehighdroponics
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702501 - 12/22/09 10:57 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

so then, what the hell do we do?


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Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.


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OfflineSalomon
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: highdroponics]
    #11702524 - 12/22/09 11:01 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

highdroponics said:
so then, what the hell do we do?




we're gonna drink and drink and drink and drink and drink until we die.


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:todcasil::dontspillme::dontspillme::todcasil:


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: fluoride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupefied, and you can too America! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11702528 - 12/22/09 11:01 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Isn't the nerve agent sarin made with fluoride?


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Invisibletwo_rivers
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11702537 - 12/22/09 11:02 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

The sad truth is that it doesn't even do any good to spread information like this.  The people that care already know all about it.

I've tried to tell family and friends about this but I just get laughed it.


--------------------
:kodama:

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OfflineSerialDiscrepancy
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Mnboardin]
    #11702543 - 12/22/09 11:02 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

dont want to high jack the thread but..Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a naturally-occurring tryptamine and psychedelic drug, found not only in many plants, but also in trace amounts in the human body..now you could be right about the peneal gland not producing DMT but none the less fluoride still calcifies the peneal gland so this is bad stuff and needs to be completely removed from all public water systems..not to mention all the other reasons its bad


--------------------


Edited by SerialDiscrepancy (12/22/09 11:04 PM)


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702557 - 12/22/09 11:05 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Fluoride is found naturally in both fresh water and seawater.  You'd be drinking it anyway, even if you were drinking from a river 1000 years ago..  It's not something new and unnatural to the human body.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: BothHands]
    #11702563 - 12/22/09 11:06 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Fluoride is found naturally in both fresh water and seawater.  You'd be drinking it anyway, if you were drinking from a river 1000 years ago..  It's not something new and unnatural to the human body.




QFT
Almost as dumb as chemtrails.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: robbyberto]
    #11702597 - 12/22/09 11:10 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
Quote:

BothHands said:
Fluoride is found naturally in both fresh water and seawater.  You'd be drinking it anyway, if you were drinking from a river 1000 years ago..  It's not something new and unnatural to the human body.




QFT
Almost as dumb as chemtrails.




also found in foods we eat, tea for instance contains high
concentrations of fluoride, green tea can have as much as 50%
more than other teas


--------------------
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Mnboardin]
    #11702612 - 12/22/09 11:11 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mnboardin said:
For one, it is an ethical issue; forced drugging???


It's not a drug, it's a chemical which is listed in the periodic table of elements.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11702638 - 12/22/09 11:14 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water


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OfflineSalomon
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11702640 - 12/22/09 11:15 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mnboardin said:
For one, it is an ethical issue; forced drugging???


It's not a drug, it's a chemical which is listed in the periodic table of elements.




so is lithium:awehigh:


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702646 - 12/22/09 11:16 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Soluble fluoride salts, of which NaF is the most common, are mildly toxic but have resulted in both accidental and suicidal deaths from acute poisoning.[6] While the minimum fatal dose in humans is not known, a case of a fatal poisoning of an adult with 4 grams of NaF is documented.[21] Sodium fluorosilicate For Na2SiF6, the 50% lethal dose (LD50) orally in rats is 0.125 g/kg, corresponding to 12.5 for a 100 kg adult.<The Merck Index, 12th edition, Merck & Co., Inc., 1996>. The fatal period ranges from 5 min to 12 hours.[21] The mechanism of toxicity involves the combination of the fluoride anion with the calcium ions in the blood to form insoluble calcium fluoride, resulting in hypocalcemia; calcium is indispensable for the function of the nervous system, and the condition can be fatal. Treatment may involve oral administration of dilute calcium hydroxide or calcium chloride to prevent further absorption, and injection of calcium gluconate to increase the calcium levels in the blood.[21] Hydrogen fluoride is more dangerous than salts such as NaF because it is corrosive and volatile, and can result in fatal exposure through inhalation or upon contact with the skin; calcium gluconate gel is the usual antidote.[22]

A few organofluorine compounds are extremely toxic, such as organophosphates like sarin and diisopropylfluorophosphate that react with the cholinesterase enzyme at neuromuscular junctions and thus block the transmission of nerve impulses to the muscles.[23] Here, a reactive fluorine-phosphorus bond in the inhibitor is the site of nucleophilic attack by a serine residue in the enzyme's active site, causing the loss of a F? ion and alkylation and inactivation of the enzyme.

While PTFE itself is chemically inert and non-toxic, it begins to deteriorate near or above 500 °F (260 °C), and decompose completely at temperatures above 660 °F (350 °C).[24] These degradation products can be lethal to birds, and can cause flu-like symptoms in humans.[24] In comparison, cooking fats, oils, and butter will begin to scorch and smoke at about 392 °F (200 °C), and meat is usually fried between 400–450 °F (200–230 °C), but empty cookware can exceed this temperature if left unattended on a hot burner.

A 1959 study, (conducted before the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the material for use in food processing equipment) showed that the toxicity of fumes given off by the coated pan on dry heating was less than that of fumes given off by ordinary cooking oils.[25]

the guy who mentioned sarin was right


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Offlinepmb
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702655 - 12/22/09 11:17 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water





What if they started adding LSD?


--------------------
Don't smell the flowers, They're an evil drug to make you lose your mind


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: pmb]
    #11702705 - 12/22/09 11:22 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Mnboardin said:
For one, it is an ethical issue; forced drugging???


It's not a drug, it's a chemical which is listed in the periodic table of elements.




so is lithium:awehigh:


Yes, that too. :smirk:



Quote:

pmb said:
Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water





What if they started adding LSD?


That would be :awehigh:.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11702742 - 12/22/09 11:27 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

:banghead:


Edited by blkjkrabbit (12/22/09 11:29 PM)


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OfflineSerialDiscrepancy
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: pmb]
    #11702765 - 12/22/09 11:29 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

LSD in our water supply..thats an even worse idea


--------------------


Edited by SerialDiscrepancy (12/22/09 11:30 PM)


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702781 - 12/22/09 11:30 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I kinda like it. :grin:


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702785 - 12/22/09 11:30 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

It'd be a waste of acid. The chlorine would destroy it. Poid jesus will bestow acid unto the masses in due time.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



Edited by robbyberto (12/22/09 11:33 PM)


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OfflineSolemente
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702787 - 12/22/09 11:30 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water



:tinfoil: Go to Mexico and try their water.


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OfflineSalomon
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Solemente]
    #11702816 - 12/22/09 11:34 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Solemente said:
Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water



:tinfoil: Go to Mexico and try their water.




i'd rather drink the worm:salmon:


--------------------
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OfflineSerialDiscrepancy
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Salomon]
    #11702841 - 12/22/09 11:36 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
It'd be a waste of acid. The chlorine would destroy it.


        not if they never added any chlorine :thumbup:


--------------------


Edited by SerialDiscrepancy (12/22/09 11:37 PM)


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Offlinepmb
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11702852 - 12/22/09 11:38 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

You don't need chlorine when you have LSD.


--------------------
Don't smell the flowers, They're an evil drug to make you lose your mind


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Solemente]
    #11702859 - 12/22/09 11:39 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Solemente said:
Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water



:tinfoil: Go to Mexico and try their water.


:lol:, their water will give you diarrhea! :shitfan:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11702864 - 12/22/09 11:40 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Back to the nig-list. You were almost not retarded for a day or so. Then you went and fucked it up.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineSerialDiscrepancy
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: robbyberto]
    #11702884 - 12/22/09 11:42 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
Quote:

Solemente said:
Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water



:tinfoil: Go to Mexico and try their water.




i'd rather drink the worm:salmon:



..just put your mouth around a sewage pipe and save the trip


--------------------


Edited by SerialDiscrepancy (12/22/09 11:43 PM)


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: robbyberto]
    #11702905 - 12/22/09 11:47 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
Back to the nig-list. You were almost not retarded for a day or so. Then you went and fucked it up.



is this how people avoid the "personalisms". we just throw out vague insults?

:tard:


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11702923 - 12/22/09 11:49 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I wanted to call him dumb without getting banned from the pub.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11702931 - 12/22/09 11:50 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

He was talking to me, and I have no idea WTF he's even talking about; I guess I'm too fucking retarded to understand this genius. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11702977 - 12/22/09 11:58 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Why can't we insult eachother freely? Feels like fucking middle school or somethin up in this piece.

AL GORE IS A FUCKING LIAR


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OfflineSalomon
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11703014 - 12/23/09 12:03 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blkjkrabbit said:
Why can't we insult eachother freely? Feels like fucking middle school or somethin up in this piece.

AL GORE IS A FUCKING LIAR




MANBEARPIG IS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT TO OUR SOCIETY.

I'M SUPER CERIAL.


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11703570 - 12/23/09 01:55 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
regardless of how many things fluoride is present in...im still not down with the government adding anything to my water




It's not added by the federal government.  Local communities choose whether they want it or not.  I used to live somewhere that did fluoridate, I now live somewhere that doesnt.  Its a community's choice.


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: DieCommie]
    #11703713 - 12/23/09 02:41 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

i begin to stupefy... RAH!


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InvisibleCharles
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11703748 - 12/23/09 02:53 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

There is not enough tinfoil in the world to produce a hat large enough, or thick enough.

I just have one question for you man, do you really honestly believe this kind of stuff, or are you just having fun on the internets?


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Charles]
    #11704244 - 12/23/09 05:31 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

i'm not saying it's a conspiracy. i'm just saying that we shouldn't be flouridating water.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11704260 - 12/23/09 05:39 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

robbyberto said:
Quote:

BothHands said:
Fluoride is found naturally in both fresh water and seawater.  You'd be drinking it anyway, if you were drinking from a river 1000 years ago..  It's not something new and unnatural to the human body.




QFT
Almost as dumb as chemtrails.




also found in foods we eat, tea for instance contains high
concentrations of fluoride, green tea can have as much as 50%
more than other teas





There are different kinds of fluoride.  You like telling "half truths"?


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11704285 - 12/23/09 05:48 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Does flouride evaporate off quickly if you boil the water?


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: SerialDiscrepancy]
    #11704287 - 12/23/09 05:49 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
yea fluoride also calcifies your pineal gland..you know that part of your brain that produces DMT




You mean the part of your brain that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with DMT?


--------------------


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: nice1]
    #11705717 - 12/23/09 02:08 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
Does flouride evaporate off quickly if you boil the water?



no you have to distill it, or use a filter with reverse osmosis, maybe a few other methods


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OfflineWasteland
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11705733 - 12/23/09 02:10 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I can keep WWII prisoners stupified?


--------------------
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: LSDreamer]
    #11705807 - 12/23/09 02:24 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LSDreamer said:
Quote:

SerialDiscrepancy said:
yea fluoride also calcifies your pineal gland..you know that part of your brain that produces DMT




You mean the part of your brain that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with DMT?



That's just as disingenuous as saying DMT is made in the pineal gland.  The pineal gland does contain enzymes that could conceivably catalyze the production of DMT... there's just no evidence (so far) that this actually occurs.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11707884 - 12/23/09 08:17 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

robbyberto said:
Quote:

BothHands said:
Fluoride is found naturally in both fresh water and seawater.  You'd be drinking it anyway, if you were drinking from a river 1000 years ago..  It's not something new and unnatural to the human body.




QFT
Almost as dumb as chemtrails.




also found in foods we eat, tea for instance contains high
concentrations of fluoride, green tea can have as much as 50%
more than other teas





There are different kinds of fluoride.  You like telling "half truths"?





isnt that 99% of this thread?

copy/paste+half truth


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11708096 - 12/23/09 09:03 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I'm usually good at wading through bullshit to figure out what's accurate, but I'm really up in the air on the fluoride issue... I can't figure out whether it's concerning or not :lol:


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Salomon]
    #11708102 - 12/23/09 09:04 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
FUCK YO TEEFFF NIGGA!



this!  :rockon:


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Salomon]
    #11708109 - 12/23/09 09:06 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
Quote:

blkjkrabbit said:
Why can't we insult eachother freely? Feels like fucking middle school or somethin up in this piece.

AL GORE IS A FUCKING LIAR




MANBEARPIG IS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT TO OUR SOCIETY.

I'M SUPER CERIAL.




*cereal  :tongue2:


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #11708135 - 12/23/09 09:11 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, how I love the typical tactic of pasting pages upon pages of other people's thoughts without adding any of your own.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11708285 - 12/23/09 09:42 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
I'm usually good at wading through bullshit to figure out what's accurate, but I'm really up in the air on the fluoride issue... I can't figure out whether it's concerning or not :lol:




Im right with ya


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #11708389 - 12/23/09 10:02 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Anyone know there stuff on the subject/chemistry of removing this from water? It's bullshit that they add it in the first place... but they say it's necessary because lazy Americans are too addicted to their gluttony & can't go for more than an hour without drinking sugar water or eating such junk.

Leaving water at room temp. gets rid of the chlorine (and I think also the chlorinated alkanes that result when a halogen reacts with organic material?)... but that won't work for fluoride. Is a "practical" distillation system available for the average person to remove it? I drink a lot of water bc i would anyway but especially since I lift weights... & my city puts that in there I guess so fat kids can keep lollipops in there mouths all day & still have teeth at age 20... and I would prefer not to drink it since we probably already get plenty w/o it whether naturally or at least by eating food made with it.


--------------------
"I did not know then how much was ended. When I look back now from this high hill of my old age, I can still see the butchered women and children lying heaped and scattered all along the crooked gulch as plain as when I saw them with eyes still young. And I can see that something else died there in the bloody mud, and was buried in the blizzard. A people's dream died there. It was a beautiful dream.

And I, to whom so great a vision was given in my youth; you see me now a pitiful old man who has done nothing, for the nation's hoop is broken and scattered. There is no center any longer, and the sacred tree is dead."

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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11708403 - 12/23/09 10:04 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Anyone know there stuff on the subject/chemistry of removing this from water? It's bullshit that they add it in the first place... but they say it's necessary because lazy Americans are too addicted to their gluttony & can't go for more than an hour without drinking sugar water or eating such junk.


Pur water filter? :justdontknow:



Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Is a "practical" distillation system available for the average person to remove it?


Why wouldn't it be? You can make one in your backyard with just a tarp and a stick...:poke:


--------------------
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It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11709292 - 12/24/09 12:51 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think any commercial filters can get rid of the fluoride. Yeah, you could rig something up (I have a functional hot plate... I probably could make a working setup if I got the right glassware... doubt it would be efficient enough, though), but if there was a home system for not more than a few hundred bucks that worked (and could do relatively large amounts without using a ton of energy), I would make that investment. this is assuming simple distillation works, of course.

If humans couldn't get enough fluoride in the environment via natural food (and water if there's a little in there anyways), then we would have went extinct long ago. What the need for all this added fluoride (I read that a source of it is waste products from fertilizer manufacture... which wouldn't be surprising because I think food dyes are obtained via waste products of the petroleum industry)?

It's a pathetic society were you damn near need a degree in chemistry/food science to know & be able to obtain real, natural food & water w/o all kinds of unnecessary (& probably unhealthy) shit added to it... all so that large corporations can maximize their profits. All we have to show for it is the highest rate of fat people in the world.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11709346 - 12/24/09 01:02 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I've lost so much weight once I realized what I was putting into my body every day. Every week. Every month.

Now I'm just chock full o' preservatives!

I dropped the aspartame the other day. No clue what's next.



Won't reverse osmosis filters work?


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Dystopia]
    #11709445 - 12/24/09 01:27 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I'm actually trying to gain weight (2-3 mo. gaining follow by ~1 mo. losing, & repeat... toward the end of a "weight gain" phase at the moment.) Regardless, I would like to test whether or not what I think to be excess fluoride in my body is holding me back in terms of energy & focus, given that I drink a lot of water, which unfortunately happens to be fluoridated.

From some preliminary reading, a good RO system can remove up to 90% of fluoride (or the compounds it forms in water.) Anyone have/know anything about these... size, cost, practicality for in-home use. I'm gonna do a little research, but the experience and/or knowledge of others would be great.

On getting rid of the (unnatural) preservatives... I try to eat only "whole," unprocessed food, but even some of the fruits (I've read that apples are perhaps the worst) & veggies may not be safe for prolonged consumption given that they are doused in chemicals to keep the pests/pathogens away since mass-produced, "aesthetically pleasing" isogenic crops have little-to-no genetic resistance.

Sucks to live in a superficial society where people would rather put "the pretty one" covered in pesticides than "the ugly one" that is real in their bodies as if the corporations and/or government magically make harmful compounds go away prior to consumption... & as if food comes from the grocery store & water from the faucet. 


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11709460 - 12/24/09 01:30 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I had one installed when I was a child for my aquarium hobby (it was intense for me back then). No idea how much it set my parents back, but I'm pretty sure it was a lot.

I know that some people are forced to use R/O water because their well water sucks or whatnot. I'm pretty sure a decent unit is inexpensive as shit now and much more efficient.

Pris can prolly hop in and find a $50 one on ebay or tell you how to MacGyver one with a 2-litre soda bottle, an old stethoscope and some polyfill.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Dystopia]
    #11709496 - 12/24/09 01:40 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Seems to be an increasing amount of disinformation, fearmongering and hysterics on the internet most likely to sell their life saving technology or other crap. I copied this from Brian Dunnings website, a critical thinker who enjoys debunking this stuff. His webiste can be visited at http://skeptoid.com.



Today we're going to wrap our big juicy lips around the kitchen faucet, turn on the valve, and fill our bodies with a poisonous chemical placed in our water by the government: fluoride.

Most people understand that fluoridation of water means that fluoride is added by the local municipal water supplier, and that's generally correct. What most people don't know is that in some cases, fluoridation means removing excess fluoride that occurs naturally in the water supply. Fluoride is a natural component of groundwater, and it occurs naturally everywhere in the world, in varying amounts. The process of fluoridation is to adjust the fluoride content of the water to the most healthful level.

So how did fluoridation become a normal part of municipal water supply? It all goes back to an early 20th century dentist named Dr. Frederick McKay, who practiced dentistry in Colorado, and noticed that a lot of his patients seemed to have brown teeth. In Texas, brown teeth were so prevalent that they were simply called "Texas Teeth". Dr. McKay spent 30 years investigating the cause. Why? Because it also turned out that people with Texas Teeth also had extremely low levels of dental decay. If you had brown teeth, you were only 1/3 as likely to have cavities.

Finally, in 1931, it was determined that naturally occurring fluoride in the local drinking water was responsible for both the discoloration and the lack of decay. Texas and Colorado had extremely high levels of natural fluoride, causing the discoloration, a condition now known as dental fluorosis, which is harmless if a tad unattractive. Years of research and testing in different cities and states, conducted by the National Health Service, determined that one part per million was the ideal proportion, giving the same protection from decay, and avoiding the dental fluorosis. Ever since then, it has been the standard practice to regulate fluoride levels in municipal water supplies to one part per million. There has been broad scientific and medical consensus for decades that one part per million of fluoride is best for health, and exactly zero rigorously conducted scientific trials that have indicated any sign of danger. For all practical purposes, it is an over-and-done-with issue.

And yet, like so many advances in science or medicine, fluoridation is criticized by a small yet vocal fringe group. There is absolutely an anti-fluoridation lobby in this country. Their process is to flood the mass media with as many claims as they can invent: Claims like fluoridation causes cancer or other illnesses; that insufficient research has been done or that there is "scientific controversy" surrounding fluoridation; that fluoride is a dangerous chemical poison; that fluoridation has been banned in Europe; that it eliminates your freedom of choice; or any of a dozen other baseless and untrue statements intended to alarm and frighten the public. Alarming the public is not hard to do. There are many communities in the United States where voters have been compelled to ban fluoridation by this widespread misinformation campaign.

Let's turn our eye onto one such community, Arcata, an idyllic coastal hamlet in northern California, that recently won this battle after a divisive and painful fight in the newspapers and in city hall. A principal champion of the science behind fluoridation is Kevin Hoover, editor of the Arcata Eye newspaper. In answering the flood of anti-fluoridation scare tactics, Hoover said:

There are no known victims. If there was a problem with municipal fluoridation, wouldn't we have at least a few people who showed some signs of harm after 44 years? All the anti-fluoride people could say was that the victims are "undiagnosed," but not why. They produced no victims, just lots of dubious statistics and horror stories with no provenance.

Measure W to ban fluoridation was carefully crafted by the anti-fluoridation lobby to simply require FDA approval of anything added to Arcata's water supply, which sounds reasonable and sounds like a good idea, and a layperson otherwise uninformed would be likely to vote for it. The catch is that the Food & Drug Administration has nothing whatsoever to do with municipal water supplies, and so of course FDA approval would never happen, by law. Measure W was essentially a devious, deceitful trick intended to further the anti-fluoridation lobby's agenda at the expense of the dental health of Arcata's children. Generally, it's this same tactic that has been responsible for most anti-fluoridation measures that have passed in the United States.

How else does the anti-fluoridation lobby go about spreading their misinformation? Generally they distribute an eight page pamphlet written by Dr. John Yiamouyiannis, the grandfather of anti-fluoridation activism. Dr. Yiamouyiannis was a naturopath who rejected modern medicine, and was the principal originator of the claim that fluoridation causes cancer. He raised his family with an emphasis on a fluoride-free diet to avoid cancer. And, as I'm sure you've guessed, Dr. Yiamouyiannis died of cancer in 2000, which he had refused to treat in accordance with his naturopathic philosophy. His type of cancer has a 95% 5-year survival rate, when properly treated.

Most other experts cited by activists are people like Dr. Hugo Theorell, who did indeed oppose fluoridation in the early days. What they don't tell you is that Dr. Theorell changed his mind and became a supporter after the research was published. They'll often cite Swedish Nobel Prize winner Arvid Carlsson, known for his work with dopamine. He's the only known Nobel Prize winner to oppose fluoridation, but the activists multiply him and frequently say that "dozens" or "many" Nobel Prize winners oppose it. When you can only find one guy who opposes something, and his work is in a completely different field anyway, that's a pretty sad commentary on your position. It's also a case of the exception proving the rule. There are always a few contrarian scientists in every field with opinions opposite from the consensus.

It's also stated that fluoridation adds dangerous levels of lead, arsenic, and mercury to the water. Again, this is simply untrue, and making such a claim is really a form of terrorism. In Arcata, no detectable levels of any of those are found in the fluoridated water. Not just below safe levels, mind you; zero.

You'll also hear the claim that fluoridation has been banned in Europe. This is also completely untrue. In Europe it's more common to fluoridate salt instead of water, thus bringing the same benefits via a different delivery method. As long as you don't look at that fact, the anti-fluoridation people can truthfully say that "Europe rejects fluoridation of water."

Thanks to the efforts of Hoover and all of Arcata's doctors, dentists, educators, social workers and newspapers, Measure W to ban fluoridation was soundly defeated in the election. And it's a good thing, too: according to sources in Arcata, if Measure W had passed, the same people were going to try and ban childhood vaccinations next.

Why do they do it? We can really only speculate. Presumably most of these people are good citizens who love their families and want the best for everyone. I speculate that a lot of them are simply ignorant of the facts, and possibly mistrust of the government or anticorporatism compels them to tend to ignore information from official sources and embrace alternative claims, whatever their source. Hoover gave his own answer to this question in an editorial for the Arcata Eye:

Billion-dollar industries thrive around entirely imaginary “phenomena.” Astrology, numerology, UFOs, alien abductions, Holocaust denial, the face on Mars, “chemtrails,” innumerable media-centered conspiracy theories and fluoride-phobia thrive because they inhabit that magical nexus where paranoia meets superstition – fertile ground for fomenting fear.

The United States Public Health Service estimates that every dollar spent fluoridating water saves fifty dollars in dental expenses. If fluoridation is truly just another conspiracy, then at least this is one that saves money.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Dystopia]
    #11709498 - 12/24/09 01:40 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Cool, I'm gonna seriously pursue it bc if excess fluoride is limiting my physical & mental capacity, then I wanna learn sooner rather than later.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11709507 - 12/24/09 01:41 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

R/O water is probably overkill, but fluoride aside, I like really soft water with a neutral pH.

I hate hard, chemy, bleach-tasting shit. City water FTL.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Jaegar]
    #11709575 - 12/24/09 01:52 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The United States Public Health Service estimates that every dollar spent fluoridating water saves fifty dollars in dental expenses. If fluoridation is truly just another conspiracy, then at least this is one that saves money.




First off, almost all of industrialized Europe doesn't fluoridate their water, & their rate of dental problems is similar (in some cases lower) than that in the US; it's not needed for dental health. Those of us who actually take take care of our bodies (don't suck on Jolly Ranchers & drink acidic sugar water all day long) don't need it beyond what we would naturally get from our diet, & it is idiocy to willingly be exposed to something potentially harmful in a ubiquitous manner when it is not at all needed by self-respecting & responsible people.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11709614 - 12/24/09 01:57 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

You should read the entire article.

"You'll also hear the claim that fluoridation has been banned in Europe. This is also completely untrue. In Europe it's more common to fluoridate salt instead of water, thus bringing the same benefits via a different delivery method. As long as you don't look at that fact, the anti-fluoridation people can truthfully say that "Europe rejects fluoridation of water."


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Jaegar]
    #11710005 - 12/24/09 03:35 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I would need to see an objective source for that. Looking around on that site, I found an article (promoting fast food junk) that concluded with something to the effect of, "See you at the Drive Thru. Eat up!"... this in the world's fattest society... sounds like an industry shill to me. I have read statements from various European government agencies saying that they oppose it (compulsory water fluoridation) on medical & ethical grounds.

Further, even if true about salt in Europe (which it very well may be), I would want to see a a daily consumption comparison... as water is more ubiquitous than salt & much harder to control intake. I don't doubt that the body can remove some excess toxins when exposed, but (in the case of water, which is everywhere & used for everything... so fluoride compounds would accumulate in many foods in addition to beverages, as well as absorption when bathing... & added to that which is absorbed when brushing your teeth) when consumed/absorbed in excess for years or even decades, that is irresponsible.

The amount used in municipal supplies is 0.7-1.2 ppm, or 0.7-1.2 mg/L of water. I drink (off the top of my head) probably 3-4 L per day, plus the foods I eat, plus possibly the milk I drink via the water the cattle drank, plus showering 4-5 times per week, & brush my teeth 6-7 times per week. The daily recommended amt. for an adult (less for children) is 1.5-4 mg/day... I personally think going above 2 is completely unnecessary. Regardless, the Mayo clinic even says that it is inadvisable to go above the upper amt.

Given all of this, a) the amt. of fluoridation in most U.S. tap water is overkill, b) it is foolish for anyone who values their body & their health to subject themselves to an excess amt, c) it is unethical & outside the scope of proper government to subject a (largely uninformed) people to a potentially dangerous amt. of a substance against their consent.

P.S. The amount is so high in the U.S. that parents have to be told to specifically to watch the limits for young children, though as I demonstrate above, it's an issue for more than just young children.


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (12/24/09 03:46 AM)


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11710074 - 12/24/09 03:55 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

does bottled water contain fluoride? because that's what I've been drinking.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Envix]
    #11710198 - 12/24/09 04:38 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

does bottled water contain fluoride? because that's what I've been drinking.




Most have a low amt. but some have up to about the equivalent of tap water. You should check with the bottler.

This is a video of someone with the EPA testifying before Congress within the last decade, citing peer-reviewed studies:




Here is part I (of III) of a presentation by the woman who "discovered" the potential for adverse effects, particularly fluoride in excess being a neurotoxin. I think she used to be supported by the Dental Industry but after her findings in the mid-90s nobody form that establishment would give her a grant. I put 'discovered' in quotation marks because she actually cites evidence (formerly classified government documents) going back to the Manhattan Project abut its adverse affects & how some scientists working for the gov't. were commissioned to start studying them fearing for the health & sanity of the workers on the nuclear bomb project after observed neurotoxic effects from overexposure, but they stopped when they realized that the wastes from phosphate fertilizer manufacture (which also contain contaminants like arson that have 0 ppm acceptable level in drinking water) could be used as a cheap, abundant source for fluoride to add to the drinking water.



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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11710224 - 12/24/09 04:46 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

.


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Dystopia]
    #11710264 - 12/24/09 04:58 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Dystopia said:
R/O water is probably overkill, but fluoride aside, I like really soft water with a neutral pH.

I hate hard, chemy, bleach-tasting shit. City water FTL.




Isn't R/O water unhealthy to drink? I mean, wouldn't 2 or 3ppb 10-50ppm water strip your body of essential electrolytes and salts? just a thought


Edited by x6h9ukfwh3p21df8 (12/24/09 05:01 AM)


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Dystopia]
    #11710411 - 12/24/09 07:30 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Dystopia said:
Pris can prolly hop in and find a $50 one on ebay or tell you how to MacGyver one with a 2-litre soda bottle, an old stethoscope and some polyfill.





pris wouldnt need to, pris is on municipal water that's sourced from an
an artesian spring, there's nothing added to my water that wasnt there
when it pushed it's way out of the ground

you'll get someone killed giving them a recipe involving a stethoscope
you need a roll of duct tape, cotton balls and a sphygmomanometer
or maybe that's the recipe for getting out of having to buy your GF
tampons ever again...


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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Envix]
    #11710415 - 12/24/09 07:33 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Envix said:
does bottled water contain fluoride? because that's what I've been drinking.





some does, some is marketed as having fluoride added, some is just filtered municipal water


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Winter is a murderous whore -XLCaps


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OfflineMet
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11710454 - 12/24/09 07:57 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

All I know is when I went from Australia (where the water is fluoridated) to France (where it is not) for 18 months, I had to get 3 or 4 fillings, having had no major change in diet for these 18 months, and never having had any dental problems previously.  :shrug:


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Met]
    #11711620 - 12/24/09 02:13 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Do you drink soda or eat candy? If so, that would have a big impact. According to my calculations, if I cut out fluoride in tap water (which represents probably 2-3 mg per day... already towards the upper end of the recommended amt. by Mayo & too much IMO bc I don't think more than 2 mg/day is needed for someone with a healthy diet), I will still get enough from brushing my teeth w/fluoride toothpaste, showering, foods, and/or other drinks (drinking fountain while on campus, possibly milk) Plus, for dental health applying it orally (i.e. in the toothpaste) is more effective for preventing tooth decay than drinking it from what I've read.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11711909 - 12/24/09 03:00 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

:shocked: just look what fluoride did to this here lab mouse!



--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
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InvisiblePoid
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: the bizzle]
    #11712958 - 12/24/09 06:06 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Met]
    #11713114 - 12/24/09 06:36 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Met said:
All I know is when I went from Australia (where the water is fluoridated) to France (where it is not) for 18 months, I had to get 3 or 4 fillings, having had no major change in diet for these 18 months, and never having had any dental problems previously.  :shrug:





there's many examples of people without fluoride in their water having
healthy teeth and those with fluoride having bad teeth, france uses a 
fluoridated salt so the odds are you were still getting your fluoride,
just not via the water supply


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Winter is a murderous whore -XLCaps


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Invisibledanielx
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: Poid]
    #11713119 - 12/24/09 06:37 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

"Dental experts indicate that fluoride helps teeth resist decay and therefore fluoride has been added to the drinking water supplies in many U.S. communities since 1945."

they put chemicals in our water because retards are to stupid to brush their teeth? :shakefist:


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'Learning is like rowing upstream:  not to advance is to drop back.'  ~Chinese Proverb


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: danielx]
    #11713152 - 12/24/09 06:46 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

danielx said:
they put chemicals in our water because retards are to stupid to brush their teeth? :shakefist:





oral hygiene practices have improved greatly since the 40's, should we
credit the water or 5 decades of commercials, education, dental checkups,
etc... that were promoting better oral hygene

now we need to know why 85% of school kids are still getting cavities


--------------------
Winter is a murderous whore -XLCaps


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: danielx]
    #11713842 - 12/24/09 09:37 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

they put chemicals in our water because retards are to stupid to brush their teeth?




Sort of. They put it in bc retards are too dumb to understand that drinking acidic sugar water all day results in the acid breaking down the enamel & the sugar that gets stuck in there is a great food source for microorganisms whose metabolism leads to tooth decay over time.


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OfflineOrganizedChaos
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11714142 - 12/24/09 11:07 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

This is absolutely retarded.
As anyone who knows about chemicals in certain doses, they do certain things.

Fluoride is no exception.

Waste of time, and not a conspiracy.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11714158 - 12/24/09 11:11 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

It's cool how you read all the information supporting your view, but completely skip over an article with an opposing view because, well, you don't feel like changing your mind.

If you would have read the article, you would have seen that in many cases, fluoridization of water actually REMOVES fluoride from water.  This is because ground water has more fluoride than the recommended 1ppm.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: OrganizedChaos]
    #11714210 - 12/24/09 11:22 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

As anyone who knows about chemicals in certain doses, they do certain things.




Yeah, no shit Sherlock. As i demonstrated above it's not at all hard to get above the recommended daily amount (the upper end of which I consider to be high to begin with)... and since you want to play a genius, then surely you must know that an unnecessarily high amount of a substance virtually every day for years or even decades can have adverse effects.

There's good reason water fluoridation isn't used in virtually all of Europe, as it's unnecessary medically (topical application to the teeth is infinitely preferable to ingestion for tooth health... i.e. brush your teeth once in awhile, maybe 2-3 times a day if your diet sucks) & its unethical to give people substances without their consent (especially those that are known to be nuerotoxic in large quantities... or possibly only slightly high quantities but with repeated exposure.)

A responsible person with a quality diet doesn't need this shit in their water, & certainly not 1 mg/L. Let consumers choose to get it in their toothpaste, salt, or whatever... but no, we have to have a policy (favored by corporate interests) to cator to lazy retards who either don't know or don't believe that soda & solid sugar (candy) is bad for their teeth so the suck on it & swish it around in their mouth all day.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: flouride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: BothHands]
    #11714257 - 12/24/09 11:32 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It's cool how you read all the information supporting your view, but completely skip over an article with an opposing view because, well, you don't feel like changing your mind.

If you would have read the article, you would have seen that in many cases, fluoridation of water actually REMOVES fluoride from water.  This is because ground water has more fluoride than the recommended 1ppm.




Follow your own advice & reread the article, ignorant prick. The article says "in some cases," which is actually a small minority. Why don't you bother to read the official statistics (about 70% in 2006, showing an upward trend) before you call someone else lazy or one-sided in their research? In the vast majority of municipalities (including where I live), it's added.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: fluoride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #11714312 - 12/24/09 11:46 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

The article says in Texas and in Colorado.  That's 29,266,430 people who get water with excess fluoride removed.  I didn't say "in most cases," I said "in many cases."

I'd say 29,266,430 people constitutes "many cases."


My point was that 1ppm is a completely natural level of fluoride.  Fluoride occurs in much higher levels naturally in some places.

In my opinion, you should be more concerned with the hormones and antidepressants in the water.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: fluoride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: BothHands]
    #11714323 - 12/24/09 11:49 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
you should be more concerned with the hormones and antidepressants in the water.



^Truth


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: fluoride was used in ww2 to keep prisoners stupified, and you can too america! [Re: BothHands]
    #11716163 - 12/25/09 11:30 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The article says in Texas and in Colorado.  That's 29,266,430 people who get water with excess fluoride removed.  I didn't say "in most cases," I said "in many cases."

I'd say 29,266,430 people constitutes "many cases."

My point was that 1ppm is a completely natural level of fluoride.  Fluoride occurs in much higher levels naturally in some places.




Um, 70-80% in those two states have fluoride added to their water (look at the official statistics I linked.) I'm pretty sure 30,000,000 in the U.S. don't have it removed from their water, unless you can link official statistics showing that to be the case. I don't know if the article made that claim, but i wouldn't take it at face value if not sourced. In only a few places is it naturally above 1 ppm (and in some places in the world where it was/is too high, there were/are severe, skeletal deforming adverse affects as a result; probably brain damage, too.) If it was naturally 1 ppm in most places, then 70% of U.S. citizens wouldn't be having it added to their water to get to that level.

Regardless, using 1mg/L in the water (which in addition to simply drinking tap water includes bottled beverages made with such water & that which is absorbed when bathing), plus what is in the toothpaste, the recommended amt. (by the Mayo Clinic) is easily exceeded. Again, it is irresponsible to overshoot on what is known to be a neurotoxin when exposed/consumed in excess (see declassified Manhattan Project notes presented by the doctor in the second video i linked... towards the end of part III), whether at once or possibly over time (also potentially aiding in arthritis over time), & it is unjustifiable that the government put things with potentially adverse long-term affects in the water that (healthy) people who take care of themselves don't need. Also, the primary fluoridation compounds used for ~90% of additions to water are waste products from phosphate fertilizer manufacture that, by the admission of someone from the EPA testifying before Congress (the first video I linked), have not been tested for human health & safety.

Quote:

In my opinion, you should be more concerned with the hormones and antidepressants in the water.




I agree those are also a concern, but an RO system I'd imagine would take care of those.


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