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 Icelander
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 THE NIHILISM THREAD. 
#11390021 - 11/05/09 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seems nihilism has a lot of differing definitions. Lets see what we can come up with that works for us that see it as a valuable philosophy.
Would you, could you, (should you ) please post your personal definition or a definition you personally agree with. Then lets root around and see what the "official" (majority rules i guess) shroomery definition might be. Then we can have a talk about nihilism and it's effects on us.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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 Lakefingers
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11390046 - 11/05/09 12:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Revisionist nihilism -- If I were moderator I'd reject the establishment of this thread.
Philosophical nihilism's about (usually armchair) negation of certain values or intellectual or habitual institutions one is fixated with. It's rooted in a feeling of being overwhelmed by certain established things, and thus a will arises to destroy them.
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Ahimsa
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11390049 - 11/05/09 12:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nihilism denies anything exists at all.
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Icelander
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
Revisionist nihilism -- If I were moderator I'd reject the establishment of this thread.
Philosophical nihilism's about (usually armchair) negation of certain values or intellectual or habitual institutions one is fixated with. It's rooted in a feeling of being overwhelmed by certain established things, and thus a will arises to destroy them.
Right and I contend this was not the intent of those who noticed the nihilistic tendency of reality.
Maybe a little later when I post my definition you can pull it apart.
I have no objection to a new and better defined nihilism.
Maybe we can start here. "Let us put our trust in the eternal spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unsearchable and eternally creative source of all life"
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/05/09 12:44 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11390089 - 11/05/09 12:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahimsa said:
Nihilism denies anything exists at all.
Does it? Or does it deny human values?
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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andrewss
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11390091 - 11/05/09 12:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think in order to really label oneself as nihilistic one would need to have their ideas materialize and impact ones life... IE self destructive/risky behaviors - just for the hell of it, or at least without some ends insight. Nihilism would rightly be an abandonment of ones sense of future, it would be an exodus from how you have been conventionally conditioned to look at things and value things. Though not many of us really live that out. If one posits nihilism as necessarily stagnant I wonder if one is truly possessed by the ideas that flow through their brain, thus are they truly nihilistic?
I guess a more moderate form of nihilism (lets say, nihilism-lite) would be to posesses an appreciation for the above, at bottom, but enough mental fortitude to at least value humor and jesting people who haven't "woken up" to this silly triviality nihilists see all too clearly, a kind of crude show being the only really worthy thing to do.
Or one could think yeah nihilism is a number of other things, and yeah I guess one can define it on and on, but I dunno, lets take it to the heart and really see effects and go from there...
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Jesus loves you.
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Lakefingers
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11390105 - 11/05/09 12:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahimsa said:
Nihilism denies anything exists at all.
No.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11390114 - 11/05/09 12:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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 That's the spirit.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Ahimsa
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11390189 - 11/05/09 01:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It states that there is nothing really there in the first place.
So of a brick it would say there is no such thing. There is shape, material and the baking process, but no brick. It is only a label.
The same for human values. They are not really there, they are imagined, merely names indicating presumed realities recognisable by their appearance or manifestations, but nothing more.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11390226 - 11/05/09 01:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It states that there is nothing really there in the first place.
This will be dumped from my new definition. It's completely unimportant IMO.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Ahimsa
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11390269 - 11/05/09 01:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It states that there is nothing really there in the first place.
This will be dumped from my new definition. It's completely unimportant IMO.
There being 'something' existent in the first place can never be nihilisms point of view imo. But, have your go, it is your thread. So far.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11390357 - 11/05/09 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
This is from the Internet Dictionary of Philosophy site.
This is where I start from. I will post my first draft definition by tomorrow at latest.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Mnboardin
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
#11390466 - 11/05/09 01:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by MnboardinReason for deletion: double
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Mnboardin
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Mnboardin]
#11390472 - 11/05/09 01:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mnboardin said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
This is from the Internet Dictionary of Philosophy site.
This is where I start from. I will post my first draft definition by tomorrow at latest.
I always thought of it as being the belief that all moral values are baseless, but heck why not extend it to all values eh? And you know that belief kills culture! 
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Mnboardin]
#11390541 - 11/05/09 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I got this one from Veritas. This is her definition.
"That life has no inherent meaning, and all events are happening because they can."
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/05/09 02:11 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11391466 - 11/05/09 04:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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OK now. I think I see where I am going with this.
If Nihilism means no inherent meaning then all value judgments have no merit. Then it follows that many proclaimed Nihilists are instead Pessimists or Cynics. Using Nihilism as a thinly veiled cover for a neurotic need to have life conform to their emotional desires.
Also the statement that Nihilism means "nothing exists" is illogical as we cannot know the answer to that one. And a preponderance of evidence suggests that things may exist. If I'm going to align myself to any philosophy by name it has to seem logical to me.
So Nihilism by it's nature is neutral emotionally. Therefore, imo, it lends itself to a healthy psychological outlook on life.
So far Veritas definition meets those criteria. Anyone have anything to add?
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Poid
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11391480 - 11/05/09 04:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
...neutral emotionally. Therefore, imo, it lends itself to a healthy psychological outlook on life.
I agree that neutrality can yield a healthy psychological outlook on life.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Poid]
#11392002 - 11/05/09 06:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It follows then that nihilism can lead to a healthy life style and is a realistic philosophy.
If life has no inherent meaning and everything is happening because it can then the best policy is to adjust to it and use it to the best of your abilities. You get to create any meaning that supports your goals. You're not caught up in defending anything. You are just living to the best of your ability. And if you don't like things and don't want to live then you kill yourself without remorse or guilt.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11392035 - 11/05/09 06:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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And if you don't like things, then you kill others without remorse or guilt. 
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Icelander
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Right. I'm glad you brought this point up. The philosophy is not responsible. Your personal psychology/ethics would be.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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andrewss
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11392215 - 11/05/09 06:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It follows then that nihilism can lead to a healthy life style and is a realistic philosophy.
If life has no inherent meaning and everything is happening because it can then the best policy is to adjust to it and use it to the best of your abilities. You get to create any meaning that supports your goals. You're not caught up in defending anything. You are just living to the best of your ability. And if you don't like things and don't want to live then you kill yourself without remorse or guilt.
Now we are getting more towards "existentialism"
But alas we are not actually defined by terms, let your actions and basic attitude do the talking for you  ... no?
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Jesus loves you.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11392251 - 11/05/09 06:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well that's an integral part of my definition of nihilism. It includes existentialism but goes beyond it.
Or better yet. An existentialist psychology can extend from a nihilist philosophy.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/05/09 06:49 PM)
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LuSiD9
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Poid]
#11392327 - 11/05/09 06:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Material casuality is everything... science can probably explain away everything... there is nothing which is not caused by something else.
but this is no explanation
the world to me seems accidental(?), arbitrary, and without meaning.
it's easy enough to figure out how everything works.. but not why
the universe is becoming predictable, yet still ultimately meaningless
this is the burden of rationality/intelligence I suppose, being able to see through it all
there is probably no spirit or personal survival after death, no after life, and no 'god' keeping tabs on what we do while we exsist
hence, there is no reason to do anything, or for that matter to restrain from doing anything
there are no absolutes in terms of importance, goodness, meaning, or truth that do not arise from the accidental(?) structure of the body/brain and its surroundings
like I said in the thread that spawned this one... we are just living out the chaotically complex forces which spawned us and will on day reduce us to nothing again
everything we will ever do is just a result of how we were made and what happens to us.. for all our pretenses of free will, we are an accident(?) running on a fixed but unknown course
Nihilism is like atheism on steroids
Edited by LuSiD9 (11/05/09 07:00 PM)
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Grapefruit
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
#11392395 - 11/05/09 07:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I alway thought it meant that on a large scale everything is meaningless but I could be wrong. I guess the dictionary definition is the right one.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
#11392526 - 11/05/09 07:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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or for that matter to restrain from doing anything
If that was the end of it. But from philosophy to psychology. Or in other words once you know nothing matters what does one do?
This is a living problem and not just a mental exercise. So then that which brings the most satisfaction into this experience would be my personal goal. Logically speaking if subjectively pleasure and satisfaction is preferable to pain or suffering.
For nihilism to be meaningful in my life it must be a means to an end. However subjective that may be.
NIHILHEDONISM RULES.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/05/09 07:31 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11392734 - 11/05/09 08:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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And so...
This imo is what Nietzsche meant when he stated
"I praise, I do not reproach, [nihilism's] arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength."
Will we be able to live without our false idols and gods, our denials of apparent reality, will we be able to bring our death anxiety out from the unconscious and look at it squarely and choose to be happy in this moment? To forgo our neurotic tendency to demand that reality conform to our emotional needs?
I have grave doubts that none but a few will ever be able to do this. The question remains, will I be able to do it.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11392818 - 11/05/09 08:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
or for that matter to restrain from doing anything
If that was the end of it. But from philosophy to psychology. Or in other words once you know nothing matters what does one do?
This is a living problem and not just a mental exercise. So then that which brings the most satisfaction into this experience would be my personal goal. Logically speaking if subjectively pleasure and satisfaction is preferable to pain or suffering.
For nihilism to be meaningful in my life it must be a means to an end. However subjective that may be.
NIHILHEDONISM RULES.
you are such a fucking liar and so clueless
but you know that deep down
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deff
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11392819 - 11/05/09 08:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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there's no point to this thread
...or to anything 
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rebus_minus
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11392831 - 11/05/09 08:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're asking if we will be able to handle the freedom it is that nothing matters?
What could be easier?
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
rebus_minus said:
You're asking if we will be able to handle the freedom it is that nothing matters?
What could be easier?
and easy is always the best way to anything 
you guys got no fight in you
so sad
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Icelander
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
or for that matter to restrain from doing anything
If that was the end of it. But from philosophy to psychology. Or in other words once you know nothing matters what does one do?
This is a living problem and not just a mental exercise. So then that which brings the most satisfaction into this experience would be my personal goal. Logically speaking if subjectively pleasure and satisfaction is preferable to pain or suffering.
For nihilism to be meaningful in my life it must be a means to an end. However subjective that may be.
NIHILHEDONISM RULES.
you are such a fucking liar and so clueless
but you know that deep down
 It's very obvious I have pushed your buttons but how about explaining your POV.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11392886 - 11/05/09 08:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
or for that matter to restrain from doing anything
If that was the end of it. But from philosophy to psychology. Or in other words once you know nothing matters what does one do?
This is a living problem and not just a mental exercise. So then that which brings the most satisfaction into this experience would be my personal goal. Logically speaking if subjectively pleasure and satisfaction is preferable to pain or suffering.
For nihilism to be meaningful in my life it must be a means to an end. However subjective that may be.
NIHILHEDONISM RULES.
you are such a fucking liar and so clueless
but you know that deep down
It's very obvious I have pushed your buttons but how about explaining your POV.
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Life Upon Death
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not just a fucking coward but encouraging others to be cowards as well
your mother must be so proud 
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Diploid
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Life Upon Death stop it with the flames. If you can't discuss the topic without resorting to childishness, then don't post here.
Consider this your warning.
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Believe those who are seeking Truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Icelander
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Once again I ask you to explain you POV. Who's being the coward?
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393054 - 11/05/09 08:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Once again I ask you to explain you POV. Who's being the coward?
u know already
but I'm gonna leave it there because I'm getting warned
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Icelander
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You're getting warned for flaming not for having a pov and presenting it.
That's a cop out.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393076 - 11/05/09 08:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
You're getting warned for flaming not for having a pov and presenting it.
That's a cop out.
I won't be able to discuss this right now without being warned
I understand that you feel the need to keep up your persona so I don't expect you to concede what we both know is true
lets just leave it there for now
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andrewss
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393086 - 11/05/09 08:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
You're getting warned for flaming not for having a pov and presenting it.
That's a cop out.
OHHHHHHHHH called out!
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Jesus loves you.
Edited by andrewss (11/05/09 08:42 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
You're getting warned for flaming not for having a pov and presenting it.
That's a cop out.
I won't be able to discuss this right now without being warned
I understand that you feel the need to keep up your persona so I don't expect you to concede what we both know is true
lets just leave it there for now
In other words you are not able to present a point of view without attacking another person? How very interesting. Your mother would be proud.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393124 - 11/05/09 08:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
andrewss said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
You're getting warned for flaming not for having a pov and presenting it.
That's a cop out.
OHHHHHHHHH called out!
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
You're getting warned for flaming not for having a pov and presenting it.
That's a cop out.
I won't be able to discuss this right now without being warned
I understand that you feel the need to keep up your persona so I don't expect you to concede what we both know is true
lets just leave it there for now
In other words you are not able to present a point of view without attacking another person? How very interesting. Your mother would be proud.
come on now
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Life Upon Death
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I will post an opinion but not right now cause I'm drinking and I will say shit that will get me banned :P
I got a big mouth if you hadn't noticed already
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deff]
#11393135 - 11/05/09 08:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
or for that matter to restrain from doing anything
If that was the end of it. But from philosophy to psychology. Or in other words once you know nothing matters what does one do?
whatever the fuck you want... as long as it doesn't bring pain/guilt really 
Quote:
Icelander said:
For nihilism to be meaningful in my life it must be a means to an end. However subjective that may be.
beliefs should not be seen as ends in themselves, but as tools for creating desired effects in ones reality
belief is nothing more than a state of mind
Quote:
deff said:
there's no point to this thread
...or to anything
Quote:
NIHILHEDONISM RULES.
indeed
Edited by LuSiD9 (11/05/09 08:52 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I will post an opinion but not right now cause I'm drinking and I will say shit that will get me banned :P
I got a big mouth if you hadn't noticed already
I noticed it the first time you opened it.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,224
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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OnlineLife Upon Death, you can discuss or state anything you want so long as you don't resort to ad hominems. They're irrelevant in any case.
A moron and an asshole and a jerk can all make valid points even though they're morons, assholes, and jerks. Calling them names doesn't refute their points.
Refute the argument being presented while leaving the irrelevant presenter out of the discussion and you won't run afoul of the rules.
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Believe those who are seeking Truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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""We shall unleash the Nihilists and Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Who's we? You?
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Diploid]
#11393157 - 11/05/09 08:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
OnlineLife Upon Death, you can discuss or state anything you want so long as you don't resort to ad hominems. They're irrelevant in any case.
A moron and an asshole and a jerk can all make valid points even though they're morons, assholes, and jerks. Calling them names doesn't refute their points.
Refute the argument being presented while leaving the irrelevant presenter out of the discussion and you won't run afoul of the rules.
there really isn't an argument being presented to be refuted
I haven't researched the definition of nihilism to comment atm
so I'll wait for proper research
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393166 - 11/05/09 08:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It has been asserted that any belief like Christianity or one that places the supposed afterlife as the true goal, as life weary and thus somewhat nihilistic in spirit... that is in denial of this world they only justify themselves in life throught what they might expect to come after. Never really affirming this life and neglecting to see the reasons that seem to support this as likely the only system of being that provides any conscious experience. (towards the end this is more IMO).
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Jesus loves you.
Edited by andrewss (11/05/09 08:55 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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there really isn't an argument being presented to be refuted
Oh really? Then why were you calling me names?
And I have to ask what you think this thread is about?
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393185 - 11/05/09 08:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
there really isn't an argument being presented to be refuted
Oh really? Then why were you calling me names?
And I have to ask what you think this thread is about?
my comments were about you personally which is why I got warned
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Not very christian of you.
OH wait, I guess it is.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/05/09 08:55 PM)
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393198 - 11/05/09 08:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Not very christian of you.
and you would know what about being Christian?
what research have you done of my beliefs that credits you with the ability to judge my "Christianity"?
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
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Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393206 - 11/05/09 08:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alright, this is turning into a pissing contest. Get back on-topic or I'm locking this thread.
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Believe those who are seeking Truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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I'm judging your actions here.
Plus. I grew up in a fundy Baptist home and attended a Baptist Bible College. I did a little homework you might say.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393225 - 11/05/09 08:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I'm judging your actions here.
Plus. I grew up in a fundy Baptist home and attended a Baptist Bible College. I did a little homework you might say.
what about my actions is "un-Christian"?
so many people have been through the church and never really got it
but the church itself has been corrupted so its no surprise
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
Registered: 09/06/06
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Quote:
I haven't researched the definition of nihilism to comment atm
so I'll wait for proper research
???
no offense, but why would you post then?
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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
#11393231 - 11/05/09 09:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LuSiD9 said:
Quote:
I haven't researched the definition of nihilism to comment atm
so I'll wait for proper research
???
no offense, but why would you post then?
because we're in a pissing contest as Diploid pointed out
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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As can be seen here, I have been looking closely into the definition of nihilism.
I started this thread and belong in it.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
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Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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how bout we get back to nihilism then
this thread would be better un-locked
that wasn't directed at anybody in particular
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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
#11393292 - 11/05/09 09:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, there's a few more folk I'd like to hear from.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 3,820
Loc: The Bowels of Canada
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393302 - 11/05/09 09:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Seems nihilism has a lot of differing definitions. Lets see what we can come up with that works for us that see it as a valuable philosophy.
--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
rebus_minus said:
You're asking if we will be able to handle the freedom it is that nothing matters?
What could be easier?
For most people anything could be easier. For most people, everything has to matter. Take a good look around.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393379 - 11/05/09 09:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think to be a true Nihilist, one has to already have a strong sense of their own desires.
In order to throw away all of the societies morals, traditions, beliefs, conditions, culture....one could do nothing if they threw all of this away and did not have a strong sense of self. Once you see that you are entirely insignificant, how can there be action unless you are attempting to assert significance?
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
rebus_minus said:
You're asking if we will be able to handle the freedom it is that nothing matters?
What could be easier?
For most people anything could be easier. For most people, everything has to matter. Take a good look around.
I totally agree. People think they are free, or say they want to be free. But they aren't even thinking for themselves. They are letting someone else do the thinking for them. They haven't even tasted their own freedom.
If they knew what freedom truly was, they would stop in their tracks and realize how much wool has been pulled over their eyes.
Also on a separate point, I think modern communication has served to make most people somewhat of a nihilist. Or at least, there are the "popular" nihilists who simply think its cool to rebel and say fuck the government.
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Word to your mom.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Loc: underbelly
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Once you see that you are entirely insignificant, how can there be action unless you are attempting to assert significance?
Right, you make your own meaning as best you can.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
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Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 5 months, 25 days
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393443 - 11/05/09 09:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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So....what if when you realize that all morals are baseless. You attempt to rebuild everything from scratch yourself.
What if you then find that your "own" morals agree with the morals of society.
Are you still Nihilist?
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Word to your mom.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393461 - 11/05/09 09:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree nihilistic hedonism is where it's at, but this doesn't really tell us anything significant except to elucidate the definition of happiness as a desirable state. What exactly makes you happy?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
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Last seen: 5 months, 25 days
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393489 - 11/05/09 09:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.
Ok then, so how can you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist. If a Nihilist can be someone who agrees with cultural moral values, that would then go against your definition.
It would seem then, to me, that a Nihilist must not only be someone who rejects moral values, but also someone who's "own" self-defined moral values DO NOT agree with cultural moral values in anyway.
--------------------
Word to your mom.
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 3,820
Loc: The Bowels of Canada
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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I became a nihilist the day I comprehended how small we are compared to the universe and all that... I was like 7-8
completley insignificant in the big picture... disturbing thoughts for a child
I've never got over it
and I'm glad
reading books on space and shit, that's what did it
--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
#11393501 - 11/05/09 09:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also, I find nihilism by itself to be a self-defeating philosophy. Existentialism is where it's at; a true nihilist would have to agree that nihilism itself has no value.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 3,820
Loc: The Bowels of Canada
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393511 - 11/05/09 09:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
What exactly makes you happy?
pleasure
--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
BrainChemistry said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.
Ok then, so how can you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist. If a Nihilist can be someone who agrees with cultural moral values, that would then go against your definition.
It would seem then, to me, that a Nihilist must not only be someone who rejects moral values, but also someone who's "own" self-defined moral values DO NOT agree with cultural moral values in anyway.
I don't see why. Maybe you need to read over this thread. Your answer lies there.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
#11393526 - 11/05/09 09:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I tried the pleasure route in excess... didn't make me happy. A life filled with moderate pleasures would be happier than a life without, certainly, but I find the pursuit of knowledge to ultimately be more fulfilling than sheer pleasure.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393541 - 11/05/09 09:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Also, I find nihilism by itself to be a self-defeating philosophy. Existentialism is where it's at; a true nihilist would have to agree that nihilism itself has no value.
Existentialism is not in opposition to nihilism. Maybe you need to read over this thread also as this has been discussed.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393559 - 11/05/09 09:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I tried the pleasure route in excess... didn't make me happy. A life filled with moderate pleasures would be happier than a life without, certainly, but I find the pursuit of knowledge to ultimately be more fulfilling than sheer pleasure.
I don't think you understand the concept of pleasure. Pleasure would only make one happy. As in, for you, the pursuit of knowledge.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393611 - 11/05/09 09:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Existentialism is not in opposition to nihilism. Maybe you need to read over this thread also as this has been discussed.
Existentialism is the next logical progression from a nihilistic worldview IMO, but isn't necessarily in opposition to it. Like I said, though, I believe true nihilism to be logically contradictory.
Quote:
Icelander said:
I don't think you understand the concept of pleasure. Pleasure would only make one happy. As in, for you, the pursuit of knowledge.
Are you defining anything that would make you happy as being pleasurable? Going through eight hours of an excruciating workout to get in shape would make me happy, but I wouldn't say that the experience itself was pleasurable... To me, pleasure is more of a bodily sensation like that accrued by doing recreational drugs or having an orgasm, whereas happiness is more subtle. Things get complicated when you consider such mental pleasures as contemplating philosophy, for instance, but I disagree that a life solely devoted to pleasure would necessarily make you happy. Sometimes pain can be a good thing.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 5 months, 25 days
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393619 - 11/05/09 09:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
BrainChemistry said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.
Ok then, so how can you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist. If a Nihilist can be someone who agrees with cultural moral values, that would then go against your definition.
It would seem then, to me, that a Nihilist must not only be someone who rejects moral values, but also someone who's "own" self-defined moral values DO NOT agree with cultural moral values in anyway.
I don't see why. Maybe you need to read over this thread. Your answer lies there.
Ok then well let me just ask: How would you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist, if both people seemed to agree with cultural values and followed the cultural mentality?
Would the Nihilist not just be deluding himself?
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Word to your mom.
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 3,820
Loc: The Bowels of Canada
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393628 - 11/05/09 09:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
I tried the pleasure route in excess... didn't make me happy. A life filled with moderate pleasures would be happier than a life without, certainly, but I find the pursuit of knowledge to ultimately be more fulfilling than sheer pleasure.
I don't think you understand the concept of pleasure. Pleasure would only make one happy. As in, for you, the pursuit of knowledge.
beat me to it
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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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That's easy. A nihilist knows that all morals are meaningless. He chooses whatever makes him happy knowing that also is ultimately meaningless. He chooses to have personal ethics because they make him or her feel good. Not because they are "right or wrong".
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393663 - 11/05/09 10:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are you defining anything that would make you happy as being pleasurable?
Actually I am. I'm guessing that's what the other poster meant by "pleasure". That which makes one happy. At least eventually.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393667 - 11/05/09 10:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: A nihilist knows that all morals are meaningless. He chooses whatever makes him happy knowing that also is ultimately meaningless. He chooses to have personal ethics because they make him or her feel good. Not because they are "right or wrong".
If the 'nihilist' chooses to make himself feel happy or good, then he or she is assigning value to hedonism and therefore is not a nihilist. Existential hedonist, perhaps.
Quote:
Icelander said:
Are you defining anything that would make you happy as being pleasurable?
Actually I am. I'm guessing that's what the other poster meant by "pleasure". That which makes one happy. At least eventually.
Sure, then I'll agree with you, but in that case we're no better off than where we started. Asking what makes you happy cannot be answered with pleasure then unless you like vicious tautologies.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393686 - 11/05/09 10:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm guessing you haven't read through this thread.
A nihilist knows nothing has enherent value. That doesn't stop him from creating a subjective and personal value system for personal happiness. He just knows it's ultimately meaningless.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/05/09 10:07 PM)
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393690 - 11/05/09 10:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sometimes pain can be a good thing.
therefore it is pleasure... no?
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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
Edited by LuSiD9 (11/05/09 10:07 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393692 - 11/05/09 10:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you're creating subjective meaning, then you're by definition an existentialist, not a nihilist. A nihilist cannot assign value to subjectively created meaning.
Quote:
LuSiD9 said:
Sometimes pain can be a good thing.
therefore it is pleasure... no?
With the exception of pain coming simultaneously with pleasure a la sadomasochism, I would hesitate to call a painful experience pleasurable just because it eventually gives me happiness.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393822 - 11/05/09 10:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
A nihilist knows nothing has enherent value. That doesn't stop him from creating a subjective and personal value system for personal happiness.
I agree with deCypher.
The moment he creates this new value system, he is no longer a Nihilist. A true Nihilist would regard all values, including those that lead to personal happiness, as equally useless and irrelevant.
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Word to your mom.
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393839 - 11/05/09 10:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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shit...
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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 79,903
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NIHILISM-"That life has no inherent meaning, and all events are happening because they can."
Well we will have to disagree
I believe the above. Yet I create meaning for myself because it pleases me.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393882 - 11/05/09 10:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like I said, existentialists also believe that life has no inherent meaning and that all events are happening because they can. However they also believe in the individual creating his or her own meaning.
Of course what's really in a name, anyway?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11393885 - 11/05/09 10:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are the only true Nihilist because you deny the meaning of Nihilism itself.
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Word to your mom.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Quote:
BrainChemistry said:
You are the only true Nihilist because you deny the meaning of Nihilism itself.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393904 - 11/05/09 10:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Like I said, existentialists also believe that life has no inherent meaning and that all events are happening because they can. However they also believe in the individual creating his or her own meaning.
Of course what's really in a name, anyway?
Of course I think of existentialism as a good psychology. But really I'm just looking into these labels for the first time. I know what I am but don't know for sure what to call it.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11393909 - 11/05/09 10:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
BrainChemistry said:
You are the only true Nihilist because you deny the meaning of Nihilism itself.
I choose to be proud of that.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,224
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Ok then, so how can you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist. If a Nihilist can be someone who agrees with cultural moral values, that would then go against your definition.
I don't think that's what a nihilist is.
A nihilist is someone who believes that existence is meaningless. Based on the preponderance of (non)evidence, I provisionally fall into that camp, pending my finding some new evidence to change my mind.
But I still help my neighbor, give to the poor, volunteer civically, and never cause harm if I can help it.
Why? I've asked myself that question. My best answer is that evolution has hard-wired me to behave like that. Over millennia, cooperative humans have had a survival edge (cooperating groups can kill more and bigger food animals than loners) that has been amplified and wired into most human brains, including mine.
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Believe those who are seeking Truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Diploid]
#11393998 - 11/05/09 10:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I guess this really must be an interesting thread.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Realized
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11394077 - 11/05/09 10:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nihilism - The rejection of objective truth, Belief in nothing, that all values are purely subjective. That everything exists in nothing or is essentially nothing. Basically the rejection of objective truth and belief in nothing is the simple definition. Its pretty simple really, the simplest thing that exists.... or doesn't
On a side note, this thread really makes me want to post this song.
name=
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“The person lives most beautifully who does not reflect upon existence” - Friedrich Nietzsche
"Change my mind so much I can't even trust it. My mind changes me so much I can't even trust myself."
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11394133 - 11/05/09 11:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
A nihilist is someone who believes that existence is meaningless. Based on the preponderance of (non)evidence, I provisionally fall into that camp, pending my finding some new evidence to change my mind.
I think we've clearly what a Nihilist is. But I don't think we have made it clear what a Nihilist is not.
According to wikipedia, a Nihilism "argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."
Also according to wikipedia, Existentialism "maintains that the individual solely has the responsibilities of giving one's own life meaning and living that life passionately and sincerely"
By looking at these two definitions....a person who determines their own life meaning...IS an Existentialist.
A person who says that life (theirs or anyone elses) has a meaning....IS NOT a Nihilist.
I dunno if this clears anything up.
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Word to your mom.
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Realized]
#11394145 - 11/05/09 11:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Can't really make out the lyrics.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11394160 - 11/05/09 11:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fuck yeah, I used to play NIN all the time back when I was an angsty teen.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,224
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11394176 - 11/05/09 11:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Breeze still carries the sound
Maybe I'll disappear
Tracks will fade in the snow
You won't find me here
Ice is starting to form
Ending what had begun
I am locked in my head
With what I've done
I know you tried to rescue me
Didn't let anyone get in
Left with a trace of all that was
And all that could have been
Please
Take this
And run far away
Far away from me
I am
Tainted
The two of us
Were never meant to be
All these
Pieces
And promises and left behinds
If only I could see
In my
Nothing
You meant everything
Everything to me
Gone fading everything
And all that could have been
Gone.. fading..
Everything..
And..
All that..
Ccould have been..
Please
Take this
And run far away
Far as you can see
I am
Tainted
And happiness and peace of mind
Were never meant for me
All these
Pieces
And promises and left behinds
If only I could see
In my
Nothing
You meant everything
Everything to me
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Believe those who are seeking Truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Diploid]
#11394204 - 11/05/09 11:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks. I wonder why that reminds him of nihilism.
It's depressing.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Realized
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11394476 - 11/05/09 11:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Thanks. I wonder why that reminds him of nihilism.
It's depressing.
Its more about the overall sound of it than the lyrics. Just something about the sound.
Quote:
deCypher said:
Fuck yeah, I used to play NIN all the time back when I was an angsty teen.
Me too. Oh wait, that's what I still am .
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“The person lives most beautifully who does not reflect upon existence” - Friedrich Nietzsche
"Change my mind so much I can't even trust it. My mind changes me so much I can't even trust myself."
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rebus_minus
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11394491 - 11/05/09 11:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
rebus_minus said:
You're asking if we will be able to handle the freedom it is that nothing matters?
What could be easier?
For most people anything could be easier. For most people, everything has to matter. Take a good look around.
this song describes it pretty well for me. had a good synchronicity a week back in regard to it btw. quoted the whole song to my girlfriend on msn and an hour later as i went through my daily webpages i entered dosenation and whattayouknow it had been posted there too a couple hours before. those things keep happening all the time, is it strange one is slightly loopy? ive owned the cd for 6 years and the one day i end up quoting it, it comes back. oh well
It was a night in July, I think six years ago
Why'd I eat the acid? I don't know
I wasn't thinking and I wasn't scared
Why'd I eat the acid? I wasn't prepared
The last time I did acid I went insane
I was hanging with some friends just getting loaded
When all of a sudden my mind exploded
I had a flash that I was gay and I got paranoid
I was sitting on the floor listening to Pink Floyd
The last time I did acid I went insane
And I was drawing crazy pictures and before I was done
The picture starting pulsing like an alien lung
And I said "oh my god, this has just begun"
And It was twelve more hours before I was done
We were up on the rooftop and I'll tell you the truth
I was convinced I woulda fallen offa the roof
And these weird metal things all around that space
Were teleporting me from place to place
The last time I did acid I went insane
So we ran back downstairs where it's better to be
But I was trapped in spiral staircase infinity
And when we got to the door I couldn't go inside
'cause it was the gates of heaven, and I had died
The last time I did acid I went insane
And this kid named Grim, he punched a cat in the head
He could read my thoughts, that's what he said
And he described what it was like, but I didn't believe it
Like lifting a rug and seeing stars beneath it
oooo oo
And the first rule of tripping was - don't be with people you don't trust
The second rule of LSD - the rooftop is not a good place to be
The third rule is to be prepared
The fourth rule is to not get scared
The fifth rule is to stay serene - "turn off your mind and float downstream"
The sixth rule's to have a good friend at hand
The seventh rule, I hope ya understand
Is not to look too deep into your soul
Or you might find a hideous, hopeless, hole
Of hatred, hunger, infinite idiot, mindless, meaningless,
Nothingness, nothingness, nothingness,
Nothingness, nothingness, nothingness,
Nothingness, nothingness, nothingness,
Nothingness, nothingness,
And that's what I did...
And every aspect of mine that I selected
Was instantly and completely dissected
I saw the horrible emptiness within
The reasons behind everything
And it was that moment that I went insane
Cause I figured why bother doing anything again
I didn't understand the thoughts revealing themselves to be
The truth behind everything I'd ever wanted or need
Revealed itself to beeeeeeee
Unnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
winding
(low, murmurring voices)
I've just discovered the meaning of life!
I've just discovered the meaning of life!
I've just discovered the meaning of life!
I've just discovered the meaning of life!
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 5 months, 25 days
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Quote:
And the first rule of tripping was - don't be with people you don't trust
The second rule of LSD - the rooftop is not a good place to be
The third rule is to be prepared
The fourth rule is to not get scared
The fifth rule is to stay serene - "turn off your mind and float downstream"
The sixth rule's to have a good friend at hand
The seventh rule, I hope ya understand
Is not to look too deep into your soul
Or you might find a hideous, hopeless, hole
Of hatred, hunger, infinite idiot, mindless, meaningless,
Nothingness, nothingness, nothingness,
Nothingness, nothingness, nothingness,
Nothingness, nothingness, nothingness,
Nothingness, nothingness,
And that's what I did...
And every aspect of mine that I selected
Was instantly and completely dissected
I saw the horrible emptiness within
The reasons behind everything
And it was that moment that I went insane
This story is ALL too analogous to my life.
Laying alone in your bed imagining that you've gone totally insane...perhaps you have gone totally insane. It is quite the feeling....
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Word to your mom.
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rebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Last seen: 3 months, 13 days
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yeah man, don't you just love it!?
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 5 months, 25 days
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Well for some reason I keep dropping the tabs.
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Word to your mom.
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rebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Last seen: 3 months, 13 days
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11394764 - 11/06/09 12:42 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I know what I am but don't know for sure what to call it.
'tis a hard life.
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Lakefingers
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11395617 - 11/06/09 04:12 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
...
If Nihilism means no inherent meaning then all value judgments have no merit.
Why assume that value judgments must have inherent meaning?
Quote:
Icelander said:
Also the statement that Nihilism means "nothing exists" is illogical as we cannot know the answer to that one.
Traditionally even solipsists say that our experiences are existence, thus things exist. Whether you reply that this all an illusion created by a demon, a matrix or whatever, doesn't modify that.
Quote:
Icelander said:
...So Nihilism by it's nature is neutral emotionally. Therefore, imo, it lends itself to a healthy psychological outlook on life.
So far Veritas definition meets those criteria. Anyone have anything to add?
The leaps of logic here are too vast for me to follow.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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I understand that the Nihilist feels empty and depressed but hes also contributing to that state of mind by deluding himself and attaching himself to this unclear label
I think its ultimately an excuse for giving up to desire while intellectually trying to rationalize the cowardly choice
and ultimately knowing that they have made a cowardly choice at some subconscious level most likely helps to keep them stuck in the "nihilist" mindset because they don't believe in themselves
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Nihilism does not equal emptiness or depression. That is Pessimism or Cynicism as has been noted earlier. Maybe you should have taken the time to read through this thread before posting your POV.
Rather than being a cowardly choice it is a courageous choice IMO. Why? Because one is accepting something that one does not want to be true. The evidence is there so one accepts it whether they like it or not. Refusing to fall down into such things as blind religious faith in a god and other things that there is no evidence for.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/06/09 08:09 AM)
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11395969 - 11/06/09 08:12 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Nihilism does not equal emptiness or depression. That is Pessimism or Cynicism as has been noted earlier. Maybe you should have taken the time to read through this thread before posting your POV.
Rather than being a cowardly choice it is a courageous choice IMO. Why? Because one is accepting something that one does not want to be true. The evidence is there so one accepts it whether they like it or not. Refusing to fall down into such things as blind religious faith in a god and other things that there is no evidence for.
far as I can tell no one has a definite answer for what Nihilism is since its basically a belief in nothing making itself nothing as well
if you think your one little thread here is going to clear it up for everyone your probably in contradiction to your doctrine anyways
your looking for meaning in a word that is about no meaning
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Like everything else I like to explore what is out there. I also am on a search for my own way in this life. I like to look everywhere. This searching always begins in confusion which needs to be acknowledged so the search can continue and ends in less confusion hopefully. Then it's onward for some more.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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The leaps of logic here are too vast for me to follow.
Come on then educate me. I admit I'm not sure of what I'm talking about. So give me a clue and I will follow.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11395997 - 11/06/09 08:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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http://www.trilulilu.ro/jackieboy/cc9b7645a3ed79?video_google_com=
the fruit of Calvinism and probably the reason for the rise in Nihilism
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Life Upon Death
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"first you have to give up"
do you feel free Icelander?
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Icelander
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
"first you have to give up"
do you feel free Icelander?
Define freedom?
But do I "feel" free? At times yes.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396054 - 11/06/09 08:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
"first you have to give up"
do you feel free Icelander?
Define freedom?
But do I "feel" free? At times yes.
freedom as in you are on the path that satisfies your most inner being
freedom from the feeling of dread
freedom in seeing glimpses of truth
freedom to rise above society's bullshit and do whats right regardless of what others think
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Life Upon Death
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freedom to me is finding the meaning that gives you the strength and will to go against the grain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ6x-u9bWYY
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Icelander
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
"first you have to give up"
do you feel free Icelander?
Define freedom?
But do I "feel" free? At times yes.
freedom as in you are on the path that satisfies your most inner being
freedom from the feeling of dread
freedom in seeing glimpses of truth
freedom to rise above society's bullshit and do whats right regardless of what others think
Well then yes, that appears to be what is happening these days.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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maybe your afraid of the rabbit hole
I definitely don't believe you are truly a Nihilist
I think you you want to find freedom in it but are incapable of truly letting go
thats a good thing
it means you still have a sense of right and wrong
fiction vs reality
I know a girl who really embraced the Nihilistic mindset(not just a wannabe)
she is in so much pain and so lost within herself she can barely get a word out
but the real her is still there and still cry's out for help sometimes
you don't wanna get that far I promise you
she spends most of her time posting wikipedia quotes seemingly incapable of an opinion
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The Chronic
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396081 - 11/06/09 08:48 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nihilism is one of the only philosophys that doesnt cling to itself
It negates its itself by its nature of negation
If the result of the philosophy is non attachment to any philosophy then its great philosophy
If the result is more attachment ie 'i am a nihilist'... then its failed
If you practice nihilism, negating things...
Then you must negate the one who negates in order to truly negate
But then why even call it Nihlism? its Realism
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
"first you have to give up"
do you feel free Icelander?
Define freedom?
But do I "feel" free? At times yes.
freedom as in you are on the path that satisfies your most inner being
freedom from the feeling of dread
freedom in seeing glimpses of truth
freedom to rise above society's bullshit and do whats right regardless of what others think
Well then yes, that appears to be what is happening these days.
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Nihilism is one of the only philosophys that doesnt cling to itself, it negates its itself by its nature of negation.
If the result of the philosophy is non attachment to any philosophy then its great philosophy, if the result is more attachment ie 'i am a nihilist'...
If you practice nihilism, negating things, then you must negate the one who negates in order to truly negate
lets just call a spade a spade shall we
its insanity
I see it leading to nothing but confusion
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Icelander
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Can't accept my answers when they aren't what you want to hear huh,
Since I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about I guess I can safely ignore your "observation". Why not stick to the OP where you won't be tempted to go off on your personal tangent.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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The Chronic
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Not if you negate confusion or insanity as a mere mental state
Something can only influence you if you mentally whine about it
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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lets just call a spade a spade shall we
its insanity
I see it leading to nothing but confusion
Funny that's exactly how I feel about religion in general. But instead of derailing my thread how about explaining your positions. You claim you don't even know the meaning of Nihilism. So how about providing us with your definition and then we can talk about it.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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that girl I was talking about(who I am head over heels in love with)
sent me this:
this is what true Nihilism is IMO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkXbzffVl44
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396106 - 11/06/09 08:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Can't accept my answers when they aren't what you want to hear huh,
Since I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about I guess I can safely ignore your "observation". Why not stick to the OP where you won't be tempted to go off on your personal tangent.
are you talking to me or are you talking to yourself?
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Life Upon Death
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I think you are more focused on finding rational sounding answers then truly looking within
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Please put it in your own words I'm really tired of looking at often long winded u tube videos because people are too lazy to explain their position
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I think you are more focused on finding rational sounding answers then truly looking within
You just posted that to yourself. A Freudian slip perhaps.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396123 - 11/06/09 09:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
lets just call a spade a spade shall we
its insanity
I see it leading to nothing but confusion
Funny that's exactly how I feel about religion in general. But instead of derailing my thread how about explaining your positions. You claim you don't even know the meaning of Nihilism. So how about providing us with your definition and then we can talk about it.
the fact that we can't even settle on a definition for this ideology is reason enough to see the confusion in it
Nihilism seems to be a rejection of all things including rejection itself making it an impossible contradiction
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Lakefingers
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396126 - 11/06/09 09:02 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
The leaps of logic here are too vast for me to follow.
Come on then educate me. I admit I'm not sure of what I'm talking about. So give me a clue and I will follow.
In this case I can't help much if you don't know. Maybe you could explain to me how you arrived at ..So Nihilism by it's nature is neutral emotionally. Therefore, imo, it lends itself to a healthy psychological outlook on life.
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The Chronic
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Nihilism seems to be a rejection of all things including rejection itself making it an impossible contradiction
No it is a rejection of the mind & mental states
Contradiction is for the mind...
If you see contradiction then you have not rejected the mind
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396135 - 11/06/09 09:03 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I think you are more focused on finding rational sounding answers then truly looking within
You just posted that to yourself. A Freudian slip perhaps.
nope I was actually aware of that
I keep this in mind while debating
I try to stick to the facts instead of drifting off into bias inspired opinion
and I am biased when it comes to this topic and I do want to find a rational sounding response to convince you that this ideology is a black hole
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The Chronic
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
this ideology is a black hole
whats wrong with that?
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Nihilism seems to be a rejection of all things including rejection itself making it an impossible contradiction
No it is a rejection of the mind & mental states
Contradiction is for the mind...
If you see contradiction then you have not rejected the mind
you can't escape your mind
and even if you attempt to reject mind that is a mental act
an impossibility
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The Chronic
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thats why you reject rejecting
negate negation
until the clearest mind remains...
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
this ideology is a black hole
whats wrong with that?
the black hole is never ending pain
existence collapsing on itself
you don't see something wrong with that?
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The Chronic
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your mind says the blackhole is never ending pain
i say it is eternal bliss
have you dived into the blackhole?
or just thought about it?
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
thats why you reject rejecting
negate negation
until the clearest mind remains...
and even the choice to reject rejection is a mental choice
its a surrender of your mind
but who or what are you surrendering too?
do you not believe that darkness is capable of disguising itself as the light?
do you really think that you as a human being are so in the know you would be able to tell the difference without exercising your own mind?
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
your mind says the blackhole is never ending pain
i say it is eternal bliss
have you dived into the blackhole?
or just thought about it?
yes I have, I fantasized about suicide a lot while in deep opiate withdrawl
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The Chronic
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your surrendering to what you are
instead of being hypnotized by what you think yourself to be
its a surrender into total darkness
the light is on the other side of the surrender to darkness
you pass through darkness first...
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Life Upon Death
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I also gave up on life when I was 16
I dropped outta school and became very isolated
I know what it is to give up and basically surrender yourself to death
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
your mind says the blackhole is never ending pain
i say it is eternal bliss
have you dived into the blackhole?
or just thought about it?
yes I have, I fantasized about suicide a lot while in deep opiate withdrawl
fantasized = thought about it
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The Chronic
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I know what it is to give up and basically surrender yourself to death
Very good, one who does this is in the arms of the eternal
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
your surrendering to what you are
instead of being hypnotized by what you think yourself to be
its a surrender into total darkness
the light is on the other side of the surrender to darkness
you pass through darkness first...
lol what better way to deceive then to convince that a surrender to darkness leads to the light
you are surrendering yourself to a part of yourself yes
you have to decide for yourself what part of you you want to align yourself with
and truly aligning yourself with what is good is very difficult
you must strive to be alive(its somewhat evolutionary when you think about it)
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I know what it is to give up and basically surrender yourself to death
Very good, one who does this is in the arms of the eternal
good in that I now know that I was deceiving myself and I was a coward(still am in a lot of ways)
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The Chronic
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theres only one part of Self worth being aligned with
its who you really are underneath all the crap...
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
theres only one part worth being aligned with
who you really are underneath all the crap...
yes I agree
but you must first figure out what is truly crap and what isn't before you really discover yourself
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Life Upon Death
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unless you strive to be honest with yourself(which is very hard to do) you will never see yourself clearly
it doesn't end with one act of self honesty or epiphany either(despite what hollywood would have you believe)
its a continuous painful act of self honesty
critically challenging your own perceptions is not easy to do
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The Chronic
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
theres only one part worth being aligned with
who you really are underneath all the crap...
yes I agree
but you must first figure out what is truly crap and what isn't before you really discover yourself
figuring out what is truly crap, in a way, is true nihilism
i dont agree with most people who claim to be 'nihilists'
but only as they dont reject nihilism
they cling to another new philosophy instead of truly freeing themselves
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The Chronic
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
unless you strive to be honest with yourself(which is very hard to do) you will never see yourself clearly
it doesn't end with one act of self honesty or epiphany either(despite what hollywood would have you believe)
its a continuous painful act of self honesty
critically challenging your own perceptions is not easy to do
when it comes to seeing who i am clearly
its the only 'practice' i do, im an expert
if you look aroud youll see most of what i talk about is ways to 'know thyself'
nihilism is one of those ways
you see who you are by seeing what you are not
only to find out you are everything!!
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
theres only one part worth being aligned with
who you really are underneath all the crap...
yes I agree
but you must first figure out what is truly crap and what isn't before you really discover yourself
figuring out what is truly crap, in a way, is true nihilism
i dont agree with most people who claim to be 'nihilists'
but only as they dont reject nihilism
they cling to another new philosophy instead of truly freeing themselves
I hate labels
I just try to figure things out for what they actually are
people always want to place people in labels when they disagree with them to comfort themselves and assure themselves that what is being said is simply an aspect of that label and not the truth
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
unless you strive to be honest with yourself(which is very hard to do) you will never see yourself clearly
it doesn't end with one act of self honesty or epiphany either(despite what hollywood would have you believe)
its a continuous painful act of self honesty
critically challenging your own perceptions is not easy to do
when it comes to seeing who i am clearly
its the only 'practice' i do, im an expert
if you look aroud youll see most of what i talk about is ways to 'know thyself'
nihilism is one of those ways
you see who you are by seeing what you are not
but if your perspective is based on a false philosophy then you are viewing yourself within the context of that false philosophy and therefore not really seeing yourself clearly at all(though I do believe its possible to see aspects of yourself and have some idea of who you are even within false philosophy but to really get to bottom of things you must have the proper backbone)
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The Chronic
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i dont follow any philosophy
i simply know who i am
'those that seek God, find the Self
those that seek the Self, find God'
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Life Upon Death
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I'm all for critical analysis of information
its a must, especially today
but that to me is not true Nihilism
lack of trust in people's ability to see past their own hangups, bias and illusions is a better way of putting it
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
i dont follow any philosophy
i simply know who i am
'those that seek God, find the Self
those that seek the Self, find God'
you encourage surrender to darkness
you have not found God yet
though I don't doubt that you've experienced aspects of Him
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The Chronic
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I fully know who & what God is with every cell of my being
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 Sleepwalker
Overshoes
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
i dont follow any philosophy
i simply know who i am
'those that seek God, find the Self
those that seek the Self, find God'
you encourage surrender to darkness
you have not found God yet
though I don't doubt that you've experienced aspects of Him
Running from the universe's shadow isn't healthy.
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Life Upon Death
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
i dont follow any philosophy
i simply know who i am
'those that seek God, find the Self
those that seek the Self, find God'
you encourage surrender to darkness
you have not found God yet
though I don't doubt that you've experienced aspects of Him
Running from the universe's shadow isn't healthy.
you believe that surrendering to darkness is embracing the universe?
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Icelander
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OK I'll try to explain my "logic"
Nihilism doesn't say that something is correct. It's says imo that our values are inherently meaningless. So I accept this premise. Knowing that I still may adopt any subjective meaning I want for my life as long as I acknowledge that my meanings are inherently meaningless. I can adopt a positive outlook on the experience of being alive temporarily. Now maybe I should have included the fact that we can adopt a negative outlook also. It also would be subjective and inherently meaningless.
In other words once I accept the basic premise of nihilism then I can do whatever I please. I'm free to follow my subjective whim.
By creating subjective meaning I know I am no longer within the definition of nihilism proper but why should that matter to me? I can have my cake and eat it to so to speak. One is free to carry on.
I know this seems sloppy, but my position is that while I believe nihilism to be realistic (at least my definition of it) it does not lend itself to a way of living considering that we are a meaning making animal. I'm willing to be illogical here for the sake of my well being knowing I'm being illogical and knowing there is a higher "truth".
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
lets just call a spade a spade shall we
its insanity
I see it leading to nothing but confusion
Funny that's exactly how I feel about religion in general. But instead of derailing my thread how about explaining your positions. You claim you don't even know the meaning of Nihilism. So how about providing us with your definition and then we can talk about it.
the fact that we can't even settle on a definition for this ideology is reason enough to see the confusion in it
Nihilism seems to be a rejection of all things including rejection itself making it an impossible contradiction
Well that's what this thread is about. Seeing if we can agree on a definition.
I have one I like and it's simple.
"That life has no inherent meaning, and all events are happening because they can."
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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andrewss
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396418 - 11/06/09 10:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I also gave up on life when I was 16
I dropped outta school and became very isolated
I know what it is to give up and basically surrender yourself to death
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
i dont follow any philosophy
i simply know who i am
'those that seek God, find the Self
those that seek the Self, find God'
you encourage surrender to darkness
you have not found God yet
though I don't doubt that you've experienced aspects of Him
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh your perspective is starting to make sense now...
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11396439 - 11/06/09 10:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have never seen any evidence of a God. No one has ever provided anything but subjective belief that is not based in any rational examination of apparent evidence.
Maybe that's why in the Middle East they for sure know who god is and in the west we for sure know who god is and on and on.
Provide compelling evidence and I'm open to it. Otherwise...
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396580 - 11/06/09 11:00 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
lets just call a spade a spade shall we
its insanity
I see it leading to nothing but confusion
Funny that's exactly how I feel about religion in general. But instead of derailing my thread how about explaining your positions. You claim you don't even know the meaning of Nihilism. So how about providing us with your definition and then we can talk about it.
the fact that we can't even settle on a definition for this ideology is reason enough to see the confusion in it
Nihilism seems to be a rejection of all things including rejection itself making it an impossible contradiction
Well that's what this thread is about. Seeing if we can agree on a definition.
I have one I like and it's simple.
"That life has no inherent meaning, and all events are happening because they can."
Quote:
Icelander said:
I have never seen any evidence of a God. No one has ever provided anything but subjective belief that is not based in any rational examination of apparent evidence.
Maybe that's why in the Middle East they for sure know who god is and in the west we for sure know who god is and on and on.
Provide compelling evidence and I'm open to it. Otherwise...
John 16:
2"They will (C)make you outcasts from the synagogue, but (D)an hour is coming for everyone (E)who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11396587 - 11/06/09 11:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
andrewss said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I also gave up on life when I was 16
I dropped outta school and became very isolated
I know what it is to give up and basically surrender yourself to death
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
i dont follow any philosophy
i simply know who i am
'those that seek God, find the Self
those that seek the Self, find God'
you encourage surrender to darkness
you have not found God yet
though I don't doubt that you've experienced aspects of Him
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh your perspective is starting to make sense now...
how so?
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396609 - 11/06/09 11:08 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I have never seen any evidence of a God. No one has ever provided anything but subjective belief that is not based in any rational examination of apparent evidence.
Maybe that's why in the Middle East they for sure know who god is and in the west we for sure know who god is and on and on.
Provide compelling evidence and I'm open to it. Otherwise...
I offer evidence for specific aspects of the debate(whether the man Jesus actually existed) and you accuse me of posting long winded videos
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 79,903
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
lets just call a spade a spade shall we
its insanity
I see it leading to nothing but confusion
Funny that's exactly how I feel about religion in general. But instead of derailing my thread how about explaining your positions. You claim you don't even know the meaning of Nihilism. So how about providing us with your definition and then we can talk about it.
the fact that we can't even settle on a definition for this ideology is reason enough to see the confusion in it
Nihilism seems to be a rejection of all things including rejection itself making it an impossible contradiction
Well that's what this thread is about. Seeing if we can agree on a definition.
I have one I like and it's simple.
"That life has no inherent meaning, and all events are happening because they can."
Quote:
Icelander said:
I have never seen any evidence of a God. No one has ever provided anything but subjective belief that is not based in any rational examination of apparent evidence.
Maybe that's why in the Middle East they for sure know who god is and in the west we for sure know who god is and on and on.
Provide compelling evidence and I'm open to it. Otherwise...
John 16:
2"They will (C)make you outcasts from the synagogue, but (D)an hour is coming for everyone (E)who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.
That's your "evidence"?
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I have never seen any evidence of a God. No one has ever provided anything but subjective belief that is not based in any rational examination of apparent evidence.
Maybe that's why in the Middle East they for sure know who god is and in the west we for sure know who god is and on and on.
Provide compelling evidence and I'm open to it. Otherwise...
I offer evidence for specific aspects of the debate(whether the man Jesus actually existed) and you accuse me of posting long winded videos
Sorry wrong. There is no debate going on here as to whether a man named Jesus existed or not.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/06/09 11:21 AM)
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396712 - 11/06/09 11:32 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
John 16:
2"They will (C)make you outcasts from the synagogue, but (D)an hour is coming for everyone (E)who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.
Quote:
I offer evidence for specific aspects of the debate(whether the man Jesus actually existed)
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Nothing is true, everything is permissible.
Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396756 - 11/06/09 11:42 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I have never seen any evidence of a God. No one has ever provided anything but subjective belief that is not based in any rational examination of apparent evidence.
Maybe that's why in the Middle East they for sure know who god is and in the west we for sure know who god is and on and on.
Provide compelling evidence and I'm open to it. Otherwise...
I offer evidence for specific aspects of the debate(whether the man Jesus actually existed) and you accuse me of posting long winded videos
Sorry wrong. There is no debate going on here as to whether a man named Jesus existed or not.
you just claimed you need evidence and thats evidence in support of Christianity
Edited by Life Upon Death (11/06/09 11:43 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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This is a thread about nihilism. I don't think anyone ever mentioned jesus but you.
I made a thread just for you. Why don't you check it out.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396773 - 11/06/09 11:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
This is a thread about nihilism. I don't think anyone ever mentioned jesus but you.
I made a thread just for you. Why don't you check it out.
YOU mentioned the fact that you needed evidence in support of God
I was simply responding to YOUR comment
if you don't wanna discuss the subject why even bring it up?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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That is not objective evidence in support of a god.
Now lets get back to nihilism which is something of interest to me. If you want to talk about god go start a thread.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396804 - 11/06/09 11:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
That is not objective evidence in support of a god.
Now lets get back to nihilism which is something of interest to me. If you want to talk about god go start a thread.
its not
I never said it was absolute evidence(it is objective though)
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396809 - 11/06/09 11:53 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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and that means your not actually looking for evidence
you've already decided you don't want there to be a God so you will not honestly contemplate the facts
your just like everybody else
living in your own little comfort bubble
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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never said any of that. I'm asking you as a personal favor to get out of this thread or stay on topic.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Life Upon Death
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11396836 - 11/06/09 11:59 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
never said any of that. I'm asking you as a personal favor to get out of this thread or stay on topic.
don't bring up points your not prepared to debate
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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OK, now back to nihilism.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Ahimsa
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11397097 - 11/06/09 12:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
OK, now back to nihilism.
So how far has defining 'nihilism' got to?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11397109 - 11/06/09 12:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Only that I have one that works for me.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,003
Loc:
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
that means your not actually looking for evidence
you've already decided you don't want there to be a God so you will not honestly contemplate the facts
blind beleif is not it
honesty & contemplation are necessary
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Ahimsa
Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11397142 - 11/06/09 12:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Should we debate the differences in our personal idea of the meaning of 'nihilism'?
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Icelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11397147 - 11/06/09 12:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sure that was part of my OP
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
andrewss said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
I also gave up on life when I was 16
I dropped outta school and became very isolated
I know what it is to give up and basically surrender yourself to death
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
i dont follow any philosophy
i simply know who i am
'those that seek God, find the Self
those that seek the Self, find God'
you encourage surrender to darkness
you have not found God yet
though I don't doubt that you've experienced aspects of Him
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh your perspective is starting to make sense now...
how so?
You like "hit bottom" as a young person, were all angsty, probably found some guidance through CS Lewis and bullshit reasoning like his and then found some support via a comprehensive view of the world to still act like an outsider saying whats what in your "own" way...
I dunno, that is what came to mind and I am just using a little imagination to connect some dots, its fun!
But I would appeal to your illusory fall to the bottom as a child (I mean if you really gave up, youd be dead, out cries for attention come in many flavors, and underly a legit need, but there are better methods IMO)...... BUT I suppose this is getting way too personal, and I really dont care - so I'll shut up beacuase I probably should
One can find support for any damn view of the world or lack thereof because we always, whether we are conscious of it or not, are doing what (deep down or affirmed) we really want.
Accusing someone as, well you just WANT to believe there is a god is the same as saying - well you just WANT to not believe in god... its a bad route of debate and people like CS Lewis did that so much. Like he was all a badass "atheist" and then turned to god so hes vindicated to speak objectively on what it is like to be away from the christian god - YAWN!
I fear we are raping this thread, but whatever - I find your types interesting... and after 9 years of christian education it seems like a recuring theme...
Keep that little light of yours shining
And yes I am a sarcastic douche
--------------------
Jesus loves you.
Edited by andrewss (11/06/09 01:00 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11397563 - 11/06/09 01:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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To any hedonists: why should I bother seeking happiness? Why not just commit suicide and free myself from all desire?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11397574 - 11/06/09 01:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Ahimsa said:
Should we debate the differences in our personal idea of the meaning of 'nihilism'?
WTF's been going on for 10 pages
People saying their definition, other people disagreeing
Then lots of off topic
Conclusion...
'People dont agree'
I like how Ice asks for others definitions, then berates them when they dont correlate with his own definition
Quote:
deCypher said:
To any hedonists: why should I bother seeking happiness? Why not just commit suicide and free myself from all desire?
No reason at all. It's up to you to create your own meaning and experience as best you can. No rules to follow.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11397615 - 11/06/09 02:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
No reason at all. It's up to you to create your own meaning and experience as best you can. No rules to follow.
Well, I'd say that given my status as a living being I therefore have inherent drives to survive and reproduce. This makes my own survival and pursuit of happiness easier to commit to than suicide. But this does not provide a reason to continue living; it only outlines my predisposition to prefer one over the other. I agree with you that it's ultimately up to me to create my own meaning, but how is this even possible? What would such a meaning look like?
It seems that you've subjectively found your own meaning in the pursuit of happiness. Why is happiness meaningful to you?
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11397630 - 11/06/09 02:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Happiness feels better than any other feeling I've experienced. I desire the continuation of it when I experience it.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Ahimsa
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11397634 - 11/06/09 02:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well then, nihilism is the total denial of any existence. From that follows nothing at all.
Any perceived reality is purely fictive. And even fiction doesn't have any true value.
This point of view makes that all we think or say or do is based upon illusions. And even illusions have no true existence, that too is illusion.
It is an impossible stance. Clearly, therefore that nihilism is an extreme example of perceiving reality.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11397651 - 11/06/09 02:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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what?
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Ahimsa
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11397659 - 11/06/09 02:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
what?
Nihilism is false.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Ahimsa]
#11397669 - 11/06/09 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not by my definition.
"That life has no inherent meaning, and all events are happening because they can."
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,698
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 12 days, 15 hours
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11397675 - 11/06/09 02:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
No reason at all. It's up to you to create your own meaning and experience as best you can. No rules to follow.
Well, I'd say that given my status as a living being I therefore have inherent drives to survive and reproduce. This makes my own survival and pursuit of happiness easier to commit to than suicide. But this does not provide a reason to continue living; it only outlines my predisposition to prefer one over the other. I agree with you that it's ultimately up to me to create my own meaning, but how is this even possible? What would such a meaning look like?
It seems that you've subjectively found your own meaning in the pursuit of happiness. Why is happiness meaningful to you?
Methinks the body knows best... though the mind confounds this operation many times. Body operates in a way that our self is "attached" to it primarily via its ideas of pain and pleasure. Something of the body seems to shout, hey "lets" just exist, lets just be, lets expand, lets feel. But should we think about an ultimate end that the body has "in-mind?" Perhaps body itself (to be incarnate) is the seat of all meaningless nihlism - which is the birthplace of our sadistic sublimity through the moment of existence - which entails a whole lot of possible calamity for the yapping self
I think to exist as a body is to embody a certain will to life and thus will to power, something in the "math" of being seems to compell this becoming (what we call life, but pertains to any consistency of interaction)... when the circumstances all "comes together" something kinda pops, though its on a continuum and randomized via the "dice rolls" of becoming... everything is very process'ual... the Heraclitian fire is raging! And I thinkd we cant rightly imagine another way to know one exists than besides the cognizing "body" we are a new/higher spin on the very "cold" experience of merely persisting - but you can use your will power to open up to this "well" of becoming - and you might just find what I would call: a hilarious novelty, which is my idea of ruthless perfection via the necessity of everything around you and your solipsistic existence. Though one might from time to time find oneself nerviously laughing, but maintaining some lightheartedness is so key to me - but these realizations seemed necessary to my curiousity/need for progress.
Alright I AM DONE! I probably made NO sense, much of this (what some would call unnecessary psychotic blabbering) comes in the wake of my own meditations and whimsical DMT experiments... primarily at least, I wonder if anyone ever relates to or can see what I am sort of trying to sputter out.
BLAH BLAH!
god DAMN i can ramble
--------------------
Jesus loves you.
Edited by andrewss (11/06/09 02:31 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11397722 - 11/06/09 02:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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purty cool
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11397769 - 11/06/09 02:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Happiness feels better than any other feeling I've experienced. I desire the continuation of it when I experience it.
As do I. But at some point you will die, and just before that moment will it really have mattered how many consecutive days of happiness you had? They'll just be fading memories soon to be erased by the grim hand of death; why not just commit suicide after having one extremely happy day?
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11397785 - 11/06/09 02:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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will it really have mattered how many consecutive days of happiness you had?
Maybe not but it might give one a smile as a fade away.
why not just commit suicide after having one extremely happy day?
Because of survival instincts and death anxiety. If you can over come that then no problem.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11398009 - 11/06/09 02:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
andrewss said:
I think to exist as a body is to embody a certain will to life and thus will to power, something in the "math" of being seems to compell this becoming (what we call life, but pertains to any consistency of interaction)... when the circumstances all "comes together" something kinda pops, though its on a continuum and randomized via the "dice rolls" of becoming... everything is very process'ual... the Heraclitian fire is raging! And I thinkd we cant rightly imagine another way to know one exists than besides the cognizing "body" we are a new/higher spin on the very "cold" experience of merely persisting - but you can use your will power to open up to this "well" of becoming - and you might just find what I would call: a hilarious novelty, which is my idea of ruthless perfection via the necessity of everything around you and your solipsistic existence. Though one might from time to time find oneself nerviously laughing, but maintaining some lightheartedness is so key to me - but these realizations seemed necessary to my curiousity/need for progress.
I agree that the will of power is inherent within us, but why is this will worth pursuing? Overall it seems that all we can do in the end is laugh at the absurdity of it all...
Nice psychotic blabberings though. 
Quote:
Icelander said:
why not just commit suicide after having one extremely happy day?
Because of survival instincts and death anxiety. If you can over come that then no problem.
Right on.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11398069 - 11/06/09 03:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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how so?
You like "hit bottom" as a young person, were all angsty, probably found some guidance through CS Lewis and bullshit reasoning like his and then found some support via a comprehensive view of the world to still act like an outsider saying whats what in your "own" way...
I dunno, that is what came to mind and I am just using a little imagination to connect some dots, its fun!
But I would appeal to your illusory fall to the bottom as a child (I mean if you really gave up, youd be dead, out cries for attention come in many flavors, and underly a legit need, but there are better methods IMO)...... BUT I suppose this is getting way too personal, and I really dont care - so I'll shut up beacuase I probably should
One can find support for any damn view of the world or lack thereof because we always, whether we are conscious of it or not, are doing what (deep down or affirmed) we really want.
Accusing someone as, well you just WANT to believe there is a god is the same as saying - well you just WANT to not believe in god... its a bad route of debate and people like CS Lewis did that so much. Like he was all a badass "atheist" and then turned to god so hes vindicated to speak objectively on what it is like to be away from the christian god - YAWN!
I fear we are raping this thread, but whatever - I find your types interesting... and after 9 years of christian education it seems like a recuring theme...
Keep that little light of yours shining
And yes I am a sarcastic douche
your so completely clueless its hard to know where to start
I gave up on life because of a debilitating anxiety(specific reocurring thought which consumed me)
I spent a good 10 years of my life in a defeated state and went through much drug addiction which eventually put me in a position where I had to fend for myself
it was not until later that I came to faith in God
I had already been seeking God with honest intent and realized everything was happening for a reason
He led me to the truth
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,698
Loc: ohio
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398111 - 11/06/09 03:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
andrewss said:
I think to exist as a body is to embody a certain will to life and thus will to power, something in the "math" of being seems to compell this becoming (what we call life, but pertains to any consistency of interaction)... when the circumstances all "comes together" something kinda pops, though its on a continuum and randomized via the "dice rolls" of becoming... everything is very process'ual... the Heraclitian fire is raging! And I thinkd we cant rightly imagine another way to know one exists than besides the cognizing "body" we are a new/higher spin on the very "cold" experience of merely persisting - but you can use your will power to open up to this "well" of becoming - and you might just find what I would call: a hilarious novelty, which is my idea of ruthless perfection via the necessity of everything around you and your solipsistic existence. Though one might from time to time find oneself nerviously laughing, but maintaining some lightheartedness is so key to me - but these realizations seemed necessary to my curiousity/need for progress.
I agree that the will of power is inherent within us, but why is this will worth pursuing? Overall it seems that all we can do in the end is laugh at the absurdity of it all...
Nice psychotic blabberings though.
Yeah, well we pursue the power inherently (daily, just eating is a form of it), we are its only evidence (manfestation)... but it is true these are merely words trying to dance around something quite concrete.
I agree, when one sees like this, that is all that is left to do - one could say it is somewhat a way of reacting/coping in this light - but seems the most tidy outlook to me. Lightheartedness and creativity
Also, I will say this... when we look at lifeforms like humans, when ourabilities arent being exerted (like back in the day we all were possessed by the most primal form of power, gathering food for energy) we have to figure out a way to exert - or die - or be a boring depressed lump of meat (our overflow and success has a draw back for the individual trying to justify itself, this regress of comfortablity is a faustian bargin for the sensitive).
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Jesus loves you.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11398348 - 11/06/09 03:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It follows then that nihilism can lead to a healthy life style and is a realistic philosophy.
If life has no inherent meaning and everything is happening because it can then the best policy is to adjust to it and use it to the best of your abilities. You get to create any meaning that supports your goals. You're not caught up in defending anything. You are just living to the best of your ability. And if you don't like things and don't want to live then you kill yourself without remorse or guilt.
So effing true! 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398351 - 11/06/09 03:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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but why is this will worth pursuing?
Objectively it's pretty questionable but subjectivly it's a question you must answer for yourself.
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (11/06/09 03:37 PM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11398362 - 11/06/09 03:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
Some people like pain.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,698
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 12 days, 15 hours
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11398395 - 11/06/09 03:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
but why is this will worth pursuing?
Objectively it's pretty questionable but subjectivly it's a question you must answer for yourself.
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
What are you saying there? Is life worth willing? : "Well thats a subjective matter" Ok... true or am I missing something?
(wasnt sure if you were addressing the concept of will to power/life).
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Jesus loves you.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Poid]
#11398416 - 11/06/09 03:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
Some people like pain.
Cause it brings them pleasure.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
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Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: andrewss]
#11398436 - 11/06/09 03:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
andrewss said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
but why is this will worth pursuing?
Objectively it's pretty questionable but subjectivly it's a question you must answer for yourself.
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
What are you saying there? Is life worth willing? : "Well thats a subjective matter" Ok... true or am I missing something?
(wasnt sure if you were addressing the concept of will to power/life).
Addressing the will to pursue one thing over another. It's what we do.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11398612 - 11/06/09 04:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
Some people like pain.
Cause it brings them pleasure.
Oh yeah...
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11398679 - 11/06/09 04:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
Most people also believe in doing the will of an imaginary metaphysical being. I hardly like to live my life by what the majority decrees.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398692 - 11/06/09 04:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
Most people also believe in doing the will of an imaginary metaphysical being.
But that is merely the result of infant/child/adolescent conditioning.
Quote:
deCypher said:
I hardly like to live my life by what the majority decrees.
Preferring pain over pleasure is not merely the result of infant/child/adolescent conditioning, IMO.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Poid]
#11398699 - 11/06/09 04:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The existence of an inherent preference towards something still does not provide an adequate philosophical reason for pursuing that something.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398714 - 11/06/09 04:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Most people would agree that pleasure is preferable to pain. Reason enough IMO.
Most people also believe in doing the will of an imaginary metaphysical being. I hardly like to live my life by what the majority decrees.
You keep whining like somebody is trying to make you do something. Really dood what's up with that? I've stated repeatedly that you can do whatever suits you. Go mash your balls out on a rock and then kill yourself for all I care. It's your life.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,698
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 12 days, 15 hours
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398717 - 11/06/09 04:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
The existence of an inherent preference towards something still does not provide an adequate philosophical reason for pursuing that something.
and that folks is why people hate philosophizers
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Jesus loves you.
Edited by andrewss (11/06/09 04:27 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398724 - 11/06/09 04:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
The existence of an inherent preference towards something still does not provide an adequate philosophical reason for pursuing that something.
Who cares?
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11398726 - 11/06/09 04:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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LOL, obviously I can do whatever suits me. The point is that I don't know yet what I should be pursuing, and that's why I'm asking all these questions... 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398742 - 11/06/09 04:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Should? There's your problem imo. There is no should.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
#11398743 - 11/06/09 04:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
andrewss said:
and that folks is why people hate philosophizers
I can see why Socrates ended up drinking hemlock.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,698
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 12 days, 15 hours
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
#11398747 - 11/06/09 04:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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