|
 libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
 Oven sterilization....any success stories? 
#11323258 - 10/26/09 11:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I noticed in a thread recently that someone sterilized a couple of LC's in the oven, and they ended up working out. This thought had never once crossed my mind, why I'm not sure, but the oven is totally do-able for sterilization! Does anyone have any ideas for how to make this work the best, such as what temperature would be the best to use, and if you'd have to add a bit more moisture for pf cakes or grains to compensate for possible moisture loss. Or even reasons why the oven is a terrible idea for sterilization would be welcome. Any ideas?
|
 German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: libertaire]
#11323281 - 10/26/09 11:55 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
There's a reason why it's been considered a sucky technique for years, wouldn't you think?
For a 3 pound roast it takes about 1.5 hours to reach 170°F in it's center. Now add another 1.5 hours for sterilization. That means you have your substrate in a bone dry, super hot (the air temperature inside the oven is actually more like 380-400°F to reach 170°F inside the roast in 1.5 hours) environment for at least 2.5 - 3 hours. Your substrate will dry out.
Oven sterilization is a completely ineffective technique. Why not invest a few bucks in a cheap pressure cooker instead of being all ghetto?
--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: libertaire]
#11323292 - 10/26/09 11:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Its a terrible idea cause its not a guarentee of any sort. No sterile procedure is needed; see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11175346. But you want that kind of success? Or would you rather have some thing like this?
Thats a 106qt tub, yield was over 130 grams. Took probably one more week, maybe two then that guys. You want one 8th? Or 5 oz? You CAN get away with doing it... but if your doing something so risky, and SO SO SO cheap and easy... why half ass it? Only time i see it ok to half ass is if i got busy, and i need something done tomorrow. Like i got jars knotting up right now that i NEED to spawn tonight or i pretty much lost em... so i slacked and didnt do a proper CCV bulk... but it'll work. Dont cut corners bro; its a waste. This is the cheapest; easiest hobby... do it right...
|
libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: German Kahuna]
#11323305 - 10/26/09 12:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I wasn't saying for bulk sterilization, as in a roast like you said, even though people do in fact use the oven to *pasteurize* bulk subs. I was talking in cakes and grains.
That's the kind of information I was looking for though, 170* is how hot it must get for things to be sterile. So is there no way to get the cakes to stay at a constant temperature above 170* for an hour without them drying out? I mean, why don't cakes dry out in a steam sterilization when they're exposed to that high of a temperature for that long?
I thought the "oven tek" that people always referred to as a sucky tek was the one where you inoculate in the opening of the oven, which doesn't make any sense at all.
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,269
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 3 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: Sparkey_STi]
#11323311 - 10/26/09 12:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Nobody has ever sterilized LC in the oven. If they heated LC to 250F, it would have all boiled out and the jar would be dry. Remember, mason jars don't hold pressure, only vacuum.
You can sterilize dry verm or perlite in the oven, but not anything with moisture, such as grains or liquid culture. This is why we use pressure cookers.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: Sparkey_STi]
#11323313 - 10/26/09 12:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sparkey_STi said:
No sterile procedure is needed
Yes, it most certainly is! He put his grow outside. A closed indoor environment is a whole different story.
--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: libertaire]
#11323325 - 10/26/09 12:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
oven tek like they talk about is for innoc. Shootin up jars... not pasteurization or sterilization. Yes... it makes total sence; but still sucks. And im not going to explain it; its been talked about to death; makes sense and works; but sucks totally.
And no... because like he said; to get 170 in the CENTER of your grains... the outside of the jars are going to be 250-300+. Steam steilization doesnt get that hot, and its STEAM... not convection of DRY heat.
But ether way... $36 PC from wallmart. $9 box of jars. $5 in grains. Free water, $10 for a 40lbs bag of gypsum, you prolly have coffee at home... We're looking at $70 in supplies to start up... and your just wanting to totally slack it. Do it right; it's worth it! You'll get pissed and suck and spend way more money otherwise if you dont..
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: German Kahuna]
#11323358 - 10/26/09 12:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Quote:
Sparkey_STi said:
No sterile procedure is needed
Yes, it most certainly is! He put his grow outside. A closed indoor environment is a whole different story.
Re read the thread... he didnt use any sterile procedure... ok, well, he did microwave; forgot that part. But he didnt use decent procedure... to me a microwave aint gonna do jack squat... not sterile procedure to me...
And he had to start it inside to get it outside  wasnt quite an outdoor grow... he just puts it out there at times...
But you can find success stories of people not being sterile... instead they got lucky. I'll take my 1 jar out of every 30 going bad; vs the other way around 1 jar working for every 30 i didnt PC...
|
German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: Sparkey_STi]
#11323361 - 10/26/09 12:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
oven tek like they talk about is for innoc. Shootin up jars... not pasteurization or sterilization.
Sorry, man, but this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If I don't want to either sterilize or pasteurize, why would I be using the oven at all in the first place? Or do you mean you heat up the oven and then inoculate your jars inside the oven? A glove box sounds like a so much superior idea there.
--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
|
libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11323366 - 10/26/09 12:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Nobody has ever sterilized LC in the oven. If they heated LC to 250F, it would have all boiled out and the jar would be dry. Remember, mason jars don't hold pressure, only vacuum.
You can sterilize dry verm or perlite in the oven, but not anything with moisture, such as grains or liquid culture. This is why we use pressure cookers.
RR
I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but I'm just basing my questions/suggestions on what I've seen, and here is what I've seen:
The "sterilization":
The "results":
From this thread:
http://forums.mycotopia.net/photo-gallery-grow-logs/47151-pe-uncut-golden-teachers-grow-log.html
They say they heated the jars for 50 minutes at 300 degrees. Clearly this method is feasible for LC. Which makes me wonder what else it is feasible for, if anything. If done properly, could this work? I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but have you ever tried it? 
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: German Kahuna]
#11323388 - 10/26/09 12:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Quote:
oven tek like they talk about is for innoc. Shootin up jars... not pasteurization or sterilization.
Sorry, man, but this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If I don't want to either sterilize or pasteurize, why would I be using the oven at all in the first place? Or do you mean you heat up the oven and then inoculate your jars inside the oven? A glove box sounds like a so much superior idea there.
Dude... why do you keep pickin on my shit? It makes total sence. The "Oven Tek" that prolly 90% of this place knows of, is for Innocing. Not pasteurizing or sterilizing. It makes TOTAL sense... stop reading into shit... Go read some stuff then come back and comment my posts. I know how to do it right; i have my glove box and all... tell that fool up there...
----
Do you have any proof thats Mushie Myc? Did he have success with the jar after that? I think thats what RR was getting at... he may have got myc to grow there... but its gonna probbably have bad spores in it. And besides... LC sucks. Do it better; and do RR's/Agar whoever you wanna credit with's Liquid Myc Culture tek. Where you inject water into a jar thats colonized; suck it out... BAM... LC. But the trick is... you gotta get that far first... and if you cant do that... you aint gonna have any LC success...
|
libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: Sparkey_STi]
#11323395 - 10/26/09 12:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Holy shit...You don't know how much it's taking not to say anything in response to that..........any other wise words.....
Edited by libertaire (10/26/09 12:20 PM)
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: libertaire]
#11323398 - 10/26/09 12:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
libertaire said:
Clearly this method is feasible for LC. Which makes me wonder what else it is feasible for, if anything. If done properly, could this work? I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but have you ever tried it?
Clearly you dont understand the working behind LC. Its not feasible. Sure... it worked. Duplicate results. This IS science we're doing here... you must get 3 EXACT same results like that, with VERY little error rate inbetween to call it "Feasible" IMO. If done properly.. YES... i CAN work. Will it? no. I wont put money on it. And i also wouldnt ever try it. Go read all the LC horror stories. You dump all this time into LC's to find out its not myc in there... or you cut corners like this and go shoot up tons of jars to find out OH... yea, i got myc to grow... but that wasnt the only thing since i slacked off doing it right...
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: libertaire]
#11323415 - 10/26/09 12:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
libertaire said:
Holy shit...You don't know how much it's taking not to say anything in response to that..........any other wise words.....
Whatever... keep trying to find some noob to be like 'Oh yea... it totally worked for me' then you'll run around and tell other noobs it works thinking you found a way around it but you didnt.
Now i see why members get so frustrated and pissed at this stuff!?! Looking back i wished i would have just shut my mouth and listened to those before me. These arent new things; its been tried and true for years. You have fun getting your LC to work... Im going to go admire my Mono's that have been exploding with growth k thx. bye and GL getting something to grow...
You wanted help, but you didnt get the answer you wanted so your being a little baby about it... Let me know when you failed at this enough to finally do it right, useing a PC, or doing Liquid Myc Cultures... im sure that's what you'll end up doing if you dont give up on it first...
Edited by Sparkey_STi (10/26/09 12:28 PM)
|
libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: Sparkey_STi]
#11323420 - 10/26/09 12:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
My friend, your condescending attitude is not very becoming of you.
I never said feasible means it's reliable. It just means it has been done once before. That's one more time than I've ever heard of it ever even being attempted. If there have been attempts and apparent failures before, I would like to see them, but to my knowledge, no one's really tried it. As long as you can keep the liquid in there, and the oven is above sterilization temperature, which I'm not positive, but based on what GK said is 170*, it should be sterile, no?
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,269
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 3 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: libertaire]
#11323427 - 10/26/09 12:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
libertaire said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Nobody has ever sterilized LC in the oven. If they heated LC to 250F, it would have all boiled out and the jar would be dry. Remember, mason jars don't hold pressure, only vacuum.
You can sterilize dry verm or perlite in the oven, but not anything with moisture, such as grains or liquid culture. This is why we use pressure cookers.
RR
I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but I'm just basing my questions/suggestions on what I've seen, and here is what I've seen:
The "sterilization":
The "results":
From this thread:
http://forums.mycotopia.net/photo-gallery-grow-logs/47151-pe-uncut-golden-teachers-grow-log.html
They say they heated the jars for 50 minutes at 300 degrees. Clearly this method is feasible for LC. Which makes me wonder what else it is feasible for, if anything. If done properly, could this work? I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but have you ever tried it?
50 minutes in a 300F oven wouldn't even heat the water in those jars to the boiling point. The fact is, you can use karo as an LC without any sterilization at all. That's why people get so confused.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
NoOneKnowsHowToAct
Stranger
Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 519
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11323442 - 10/26/09 12:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
A failure story from me: I was going to try sterilizing some jars in the oven at a high temperature like 300F or so. Turns out tyvek melts at 270F. So, be careful if you're using Tyvek. It'll melt if it gets hot enough.
--------------------
Winner of 2 of TacoHerder's 2 cultivation contests!
Most recent contest posts:
inoculation
Ready for spawning
Substrate done colonizing
Pins
Pins #2
First flush
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11323446 - 10/26/09 12:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
The fact is, you can use karo as an LC without any sterilization at all. That's why people get so confused.
RR
Whoa, thats new... havent heard that before. So Sterile water + Karo = LC?
And yes, my attitude does suck... I've said 100 times, it CAN work... but not with any sort of reliability to make it worth time and i also want anyone that reads this to know its not a way to cut a corner. Its just more headaches then its worth. Im by far not a mycoligist; but i understand mycology is NOT a place to cut corners...
|
libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11323447 - 10/26/09 12:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Uh...seriously? Are you saying that if I just take some karo in water, don't do anything to it, and add spores, it will come out contam free? I dunno about that one.
|
Sparkey_STi
Boomer
Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 559
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
|
Re: Oven sterilization....any success stories? [Re: libertaire]
#11323454 - 10/26/09 12:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Also, i dont have the book mark of it anymore... but a guy used a dorito salsa can, boiled it, took it out with boiling water in it; dropped honey in and it worked. If you want to try that method; its easier then this one; but again... waste of time imo...
|
|
Images only 
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Shop for: 
Edit 
Reply 
