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Anonymous #22
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Anonymous #17 said:
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Anonymous #5 said:
they are not at all the same thing. I am moderate.
A moderate is someone without convictions or ideas.
Bullshit! Moderates think for themselves and are generally more pragmatic w/ their ideas.
I feel bad for those out there who blindly listen only to the likes of Rush and Hannity, or Olbermann and Jon Stewart. Picking a team and sticking w/ them no matter what they advocate for or against is the sign of a lazy person w/o the inclination to form ones' own convictions.
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Anonymous #8
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Anonymous #20 said:
why make this anon?
Nobody but the OP chose to make this anon.
btw...I'm Ratatonic30 and I'm proud to own up to it 
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Anonymous #16
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Anonymous #21 said:
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Anonymous #1 said:
And if so, why? There seem to be a lot of you here.
Lots of liberals on a site called the "shroomery"?
You're not very bright are you?
It's actually not nearly as liberal as it used to be. Some time a few years ago it got taken over by a bunch of LOLbertarians.
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Anonymous #23
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Used to be liberal but as I grow older I'm becoming more conservative/libretarian. I finally opened my eyes.
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Anonymous #1
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Anonymous #20 said:
why make this anon?
I dunno, I just felt like it. I guess I didn't want people with unpopular views to hold back.
Anyway, I too am from a left-leaning family, but as I grow older, I keep seeing more and more about that movement that I have problems with. First, while I support a a wide variety of freedoms, one thing I am very strongly against is abortion. I look at it this way; thats a person in there. Does he or she not have dignity? Should he or she have the chance to live? I never really thought too much about this issue until a girlfriend asked me where I stood, and I tried to say I was prochoice and I couldn't. I wondered why, and got to thinking about it and why I felt that way. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that fetuses are indeed children, and to kill them is a barbaric theft of their most basic right. So you could say I support the freedom to live life. I am anti-death penalty as well.
I can't really identify with the Republican party too much either though, because they seem to promote big government almost as much as the democrats. I fail to see why marriage, gay or straight, should be any concern of the government, nor which drugs a person ingests. I think Obama's bailouts are going to fuck us hard in the long run, to the point that I fear the USA may not be a viable country in the future. I also fear, and why I posted this thread, that the progressive movement is promoting a system that will eventually result in the the loss of a great many freedoms and individuality. They promote the idea that there is no morality beyond your sense of it, no God, that science and logic are all a human being needs and meanwhile they take your guns away and tax the fuck out of you in the name of one liberal cause or another. I fear we may be headed to a Brave New World scenario, where the government is just managing numbers without any concept of humanity. We can see this already happening with the proliferation of pornography and the sexualized lifestyle. Sex is a potent soma for the masses, because its an interpersonal experience, so it allows them to control you even more. You don't have the right attitudes, good enough job, right style or clothes? Hey, you're not getting laid.
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Anonymous #24
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 Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD?  [Re: Anonymous #1]
#11011976 - 09/06/09 11:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wow, you sure are a moron.
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Anonymous #1
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thanks. you too.
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Anonymous #8
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#11012086 - 09/07/09 12:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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It is good to see you have an opinion on topics and aren't just spouting out propaganda. I'm all for Health Care reform but that doesn't make me a Democrat apologist. I'm so tired of political party nonsense. Healthy debates are great for all.
As for all the fear mongers out there...Being concerned about what might happen in our future is being responsible. Pretending to know what WILL happen in our future is ignorance.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #8]
#11012329 - 09/07/09 01:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe I went off on a tangent a little there, but my basic sentiment is that government interference into our lives should be kept to a minimum. And maybe fears don't make a strong argument, but look at the economic bailout. They say by the time its all said and done, it could top 24 trillion dollars. Now, the national debt has been growing for years. It has never gone down. Does anyone actually think we're ever going to payoff the bailout debt? I highly doubt it, and it will put us in a state of economic weakness, and the value of the dollar and perhaps even its use as an international currency will suffer for years to come.
Health care reform? Sure, some changes need to be made, and there is room to make those changes, but a nationalized health care system is a fiscally bad idea, and again, is too much government interference into our lives. Once the government is in charge of our health care, who's to say they won't decide to outlaw alcohol, red meat, milkshakes and cigarettes, nevermind drugs, to make ends meet better?
I think a better option would be to limit malpractice lawsuit awards, reduce the length of patents on drugs, allow greater importation of drugs from overseas, and mandate standardized and simplified regulations for HMOs. They say doctors offices these days have to hire a person just to do paperwork all day, that's how much red tape there is...ridiculous. If people want free or cheap health care, they ought to support charitable non-profit organizations.
And gun control, what will that solve? Look at Mexico. They have big signs when you cross the border that say gun possession is a mandatory 5 year prison term or something like that, and yet, its a freakin war zone down there.
Obviously, my philosophy extends beyond politics, because as I stated earlier, culture is becoming sexualized like never before, and I think its being used as a means of controlling ans subduing the masses, but I would obviously be very hesitant to get the government involved. But do I think its a problem? Yeah, I do.
Edited by Anonymous (09/07/09 01:17 AM)
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Anonymous #24
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#11012837 - 09/07/09 03:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anonymous #1 said:
culture is becoming sexualized like never before,
You need some history lessons. Start with the Greeks. If anything, things are just getting back to normal after the frigidity of the victorian era.
You are quite ignorant.
Edited by Anonymous (09/07/09 05:46 AM)
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Anonymous #25
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#11015046 - 09/07/09 04:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anonymous #1 said:
And if so, why? There seem to be a lot of you here. Do you really think your "progressive" ideology is the way to go?
Oh my!
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Anonymous #26
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I used to hang out with a lot of left leaning people that identified themselves as progressive. We spent a lot of time being critical of ourselves, questioning our ideologies. There was no doctrine, no pressure to go a certain way, and everything was done in an open, collective manner. Personally, I had to step back from a lot of it because I realized I was becoming a hypocrite.
I still lean heavily to the left, but the cynicism has overpowered my will to do much these days beyond trying to make it through life. (thanks a lot, psychedelics).
I've seen some fucked up things that I despised by people claiming to be on the same side of the fence. La Rouche zombies still talk down to me like I'm a retard, even when they don't have a clue of what they are talking about. A lot of people also resort to faith in something, like standing behind the democratic party. And it isn't easy telling people that lean left to abandon their marriage with corrupt politics.
I feel the same view carries over to conservatives and libertarians. I observe a few things here and there that seem quite admirable, but it is still awash in a sea of fucked up thinking and failing ideology.
Another way I see it: it's usually the fucked up people that want to be in charge of these movements. They are often some ill-minded hack that wants to be the leader.
It's easy to point out the flaws of an ideology but that doesn't put you on the right side. Take the freshmen college republican that just finished his econ class. He'll probably go around lecturing about Reaganomics like it is the second long lost messiah, finding validation in our crappy economy. Such a path makes it difficult to get out of false dichotomies or even attempt to use dialectical debate. Furthermore, people rely heavily on dogma, doctrine, disproved theories, gross twisting of empirical research, and weak polemics to support their claims.
Look at OP for example. He hasn't pulled out any support to show that his model has demonstrated to be more effective. Nor did he realize that HMOs have been regulated since the evil liberal fucktard Richard Nixon approved the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973.
And suppose we do limit the length of time on drugs. Is this a good solution for containing an epidemic outbreak of antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis or the latest and greatest flu outbreak? Is this something you spent a lot of time thinking about, before you proposed your idea? Because this goes against the current paradigm that thorough treatment and quarantine of communicable diseases cuts down on EVERYONE's expenditure of resources.
As for the gripe about imported drugs: That is highly misleading. Do you think it is the government that puts up those posters discouraging imported drugs? Did the government lobby itself into it's current sad state of regulating drugs? Assuming the whole tone of your argument is solid, I bet PhARMA, the champion of keeping our prescription meds free of socialism, would agree with you 100%.
I bet you know a lot about social healthcare systems too, huh? You labeled a vague term as fiscally bad, even though its costs ranges from low (the most consolidated organizations) to unaffordable (Medicare). The US could very well transition to one of several systems that would be significantly less than the current state, provided it eliminates Medicare/Medicaid and stands up to PhRMA. If you don't believe me, look at how much other nations spend on healthcare, including the better rated nations.
And go easy on Mexico. They don't exactly have it so easy over there, with a crap economy, a corrupt government, bully neighbors, NAFTA, free trade zones, and a high demand for drugs from their American neighbors. They hardly classify as having big government, BTW. If anything, their arm has been twisted for quite some time by your elected representatives. Yeah, it's easy and convenient shake your finger and excuse yourself from the problem.
Fuck it. Most people can figure out for themselves of why the OP's argument is full of crap. He can go get treated in Mexico for all I care. I hear they don't have as much paperwork to deal with at the doctor's office.
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Anonymous #19
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Quote:
Anonymous #26 said:
I used to hang out with a lot of left leaning people that identified themselves as progressive. We spent a lot of time being critical of ourselves, questioning our ideologies. There was no doctrine, no pressure to go a certain way, and everything was done in an open, collective manner. Personally, I had to step back from a lot of it because I realized I was becoming a hypocrite.
I still lean heavily to the left, but the cynicism has overpowered my will to do much these days beyond trying to make it through life. (thanks a lot, psychedelics).
I've seen some fucked up things that I despised by people claiming to be on the same side of the fence. La Rouche zombies still talk down to me like I'm a retard, even when they don't have a clue of what they are talking about. A lot of people also resort to faith in something, like standing behind the democratic party. And it isn't easy telling people that lean left to abandon their marriage with corrupt politics.
I feel the same view carries over to conservatives and libertarians. I observe a few things here and there that seem quite admirable, but it is still awash in a sea of fucked up thinking and failing ideology.
Another way I see it: it's usually the fucked up people that want to be in charge of these movements. They are often some ill-minded hack that wants to be the leader.
It's easy to point out the flaws of an ideology but that doesn't put you on the right side. Take the freshmen college republican that just finished his econ class. He'll probably go around lecturing about Reaganomics like it is the second long lost messiah, finding validation in our crappy economy. Such a path makes it difficult to get out of false dichotomies or even attempt to use dialectical debate. Furthermore, people rely heavily on dogma, doctrine, disproved theories, gross twisting of empirical research, and weak polemics to support their claims.
Look at OP for example. He hasn't pulled out any support to show that his model has demonstrated to be more effective. Nor did he realize that HMOs have been regulated since the evil liberal fucktard Richard Nixon approved the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973.
And suppose we do limit the length of time on drugs. Is this a good solution for containing an epidemic outbreak of antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis or the latest and greatest flu outbreak? Is this something you spent a lot of time thinking about, before you proposed your idea? Because this goes against the current paradigm that thorough treatment and quarantine of communicable diseases cuts down on EVERYONE's expenditure of resources.
As for the gripe about imported drugs: That is highly misleading. Do you think it is the government that puts up those posters discouraging imported drugs? Did the government lobby itself into it's current sad state of regulating drugs? Assuming the whole tone of your argument is solid, I bet PhARMA, the champion of keeping our prescription meds free of socialism, would agree with you 100%.
I bet you know a lot about social healthcare systems too, huh? You labeled a vague term as fiscally bad, even though its costs ranges from low (the most consolidated organizations) to unaffordable (Medicare). The US could very well transition to one of several systems that would be significantly less than the current state, provided it eliminates Medicare/Medicaid and stands up to PhRMA. If you don't believe me, look at how much other nations spend on healthcare, including the better rated nations.
And go easy on Mexico. They don't exactly have it so easy over there, with a crap economy, a corrupt government, bully neighbors, NAFTA, free trade zones, and a high demand for drugs from their American neighbors. They hardly classify as having big government, BTW. If anything, their arm has been twisted for quite some time by your elected representatives. Yeah, it's easy and convenient shake your finger and excuse yourself from the problem.
Fuck it. Most people can figure out for themselves of why the OP's argument is full of crap. He can go get treated in Mexico for all I care. I hear they don't have as much paperwork to deal with at the doctor's office.
Sounds like you don't have a life.......I hate politics. No one knows what they want.
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Anonymous #26
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Anonymous #19 said:
Sounds like you don't have a life.......I hate politics. No one knows what they want.
I could less about having a life. I gave up on that too.
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Anonymous #27
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fuck politics. you can't change the minds of retards. our political system is a sham. be the change you want to see. lead by example. work to improve your little corner of the world. if everyone did this we wouldn't need "leaders" and "representatives" that are parasitic.
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Anonymous #3
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our political system is a sham.
If so, then this 'sham' has produced among the highest standards of living in the history of humanity. Pretty good for a 'sham'.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #3]
#11016420 - 09/07/09 08:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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and i would argue that our success as a nation has =been due more to the inventiveness, innovation and enterprising spirit of Americans over the years, and that government can claim credit only in as much as it has stepped aside and allowed the free market to grow and evolve. Sometimes regulation is needed of course, such as we saw after the Great Depression, and probably we need to clamp down on lending again. But by and large, planned economies can never be as efficient or as robust as free market economies.
By the way, when I posted this thread, I meant it to be antagonistic yes, but I think it came across as a bit more malicious than I intended, so I'm sorry about that. It was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, Cobertesque if you will. But yes, you are all stupid fucking idiots.
#26, you seem to have misunderstood what i was saying regarding prescription drugs. What I said is that the length of legal patent protections ought to be reduced, as they should for all intellectual properties, but especially drugs. One thing Bush did that I was strongly opposed to was that he actually lengthened patent protections for pharmaceuticals. And of course, big pharma is raking more dough than almost anyone, and they're doing it on the backs of the sick and elderly. Tell me that's okay. Also, I never said I was against HMO's, just that they need a regulatory overhaul. I think if they worked the way they should and could, it would be an ideal system.
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Anonymous #26
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#11016532 - 09/07/09 09:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anonymous #1 said:
#26, you seem to have misunderstood what i was saying regarding prescription drugs. What I said is that the length of legal patent protections ought to be reduced, as they should for all intellectual properties, but especially drugs. One thing Bush did that I was strongly opposed to was that he actually lengthened patent protections for pharmaceuticals. And of course, big pharma is raking more dough than almost anyone, and they're doing it on the backs of the sick and elderly. Tell me that's okay. Also, I never said I was against HMO's, just that they need a regulatory overhaul. I think if they worked the way they should and could, it would be an ideal system.
I still believe that doesn't amount to success. The whole intellectual property has created a moral hazard that has killed hard working, insured Americans, and wasted money, in the pursuit of greed in a free market system.
Look at the Canadians and their flat out rejection of Vioxx. It was worthless analogue to already proven, cheap, and successful treatment. I would even argue that the free market has hindered our ability to research and create more effective treatments. Not only is research leaning heavily towards profit rewards for people that do not work (shareholders), it is encroaching on universities (universal education and research) and lobbying against anything that threatens their profits.
I would also argue that regulated "free market" economies are far more prosperous than laissez faire or older systems. But even then, socialist nations exist in a global economy, and compete among corporations. If you look at nations that undertook oil and healthcare as socialized programs, you will see that their products have been superior and the profits have benefited a large amount of people that would have otherwise lost their welfare to non-working shareholders. Sometimes it takes government intervention to allow a free market to exist. Otherwise, you have a corporate oligarchy which is no better than any government ownership socialist government.
Some HMOs work quite well. Look at Kaiser. I would bet money that they would be even more successful and less expensive if they could own and operate all of their resources. But they cannot and they lack the power to further consolidate. BTW, they still have entire buildings dedicated to doctor paperwork.
As for Bush signing a bill to lengthen intellectual rights, it really can't be pinned on him. That lobby is heavily entrenched in both political parties. Therefore it is out of the hands of those needing treatment. It isn't a liberal or a conservative thing. It's just flat out corrupt. It isn't fair to make an argument than one ideology can fix it, because they are both intertwined and corrupted from the start. Programs like medicare just have to go, whether the direction be total socialized medicine or total private medicine.
I think the whole approach of attacking the ideology won't cut it. The whole problem started when hacks started asking, "how can I make the most money off this?" It is a short-sighted approach that the free-market fans need to acknowledge. Fucked up people end up in every institution, be it economics, politics, religion, the DEA...
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Anonymous #26
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #3]
#11016550 - 09/07/09 09:15 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anonymous #3 said:
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our political system is a sham.
If so, then this 'sham' has produced among the highest standards of living in the history of humanity. Pretty good for a 'sham'.
That type of thinking stinks. Who is consuming most of the world's resources at the expense of others?
Those on the short end of the stick aren't going to share your enthusiasm.
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Anonymous #8
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Re: ARE YOU A LIBERAL FUCK-TARD? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#11016583 - 09/07/09 09:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anonymous #1 said:
But yes, you are all stupid fucking idiots
 
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