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solstice said:
My opinion on this is that it is highly irresponsible to suggest that fasting might help you in spiritual pursuits, especially when it is suggested by people of authority.

This is unhealthy and dangerous! Not to mention foolish to think that to deny your body essential nourishment is to progress spiritually.

By giving your body all it needs in order to be healthy, you shall progress spiritually as well as physically. Your body is your temple, it is animate with sublime energy, all parts of your being are equally sacred: physical, mental and spiritual. To deny yourself fulfillment on any of these levels is to impair progress.

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UpSwell said:
Personally, I love eating too much, and since I'm not a fatbody, I do it all that I want

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Grapefruit said:

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solstice said:
My opinion on this is that it is highly irresponsible to suggest that fasting might help you in spiritual pursuits, especially when it is suggested by people of authority.

This is unhealthy and dangerous! Not to mention foolish to think that to deny your body essential nourishment is to progress spiritually.

By giving your body all it needs in order to be healthy, you shall progress spiritually as well as physically. Your body is your temple, it is animate with sublime energy, all parts of your being are equally sacred: physical, mental and spiritual. To deny yourself fulfillment on any of these levels is to impair progress.

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Why not research fastings benefits to health before making baseless statements.

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solstice said:

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Grapefruit said:

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solstice said:
My opinion on this is that it is highly irresponsible to suggest that fasting might help you in spiritual pursuits, especially when it is suggested by people of authority.

This is unhealthy and dangerous! Not to mention foolish to think that to deny your body essential nourishment is to progress spiritually.

By giving your body all it needs in order to be healthy, you shall progress spiritually as well as physically. Your body is your temple, it is animate with sublime energy, all parts of your being are equally sacred: physical, mental and spiritual. To deny yourself fulfillment on any of these levels is to impair progress.

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Why not research fastings benefits to health before making baseless statements.

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The title of the thread does say: fasting to reach spirituality.

So the OP is obviously not refering to short term fasts made to flush out toxins from the body, he is refering to fasts endured in order to reach " higher states of mind ", the kind of fasting that is detrimental to the human body, the kind of fasting that naive people go through because some shitty gurus told them to.

You don't need extensive research to know that depriving the body from food for too long, especially in the hope of becoming enlightened, is very very wrong.

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Intention, intention, intention.

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Care to expand on that?

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Melt the Chill said:
Buddha, anyone?

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Ah come on! Hardly a reference!

Myths are going to get you nowhere, facts though, will.

Of course fasting for days on end will make you hallucinate! Your body is fighting the lack of fuel! The hallucinations you might " enjoy " due to fasting are not spiritual at all, they are a sign that your body is acting out because it needs nutrients.

Oh yeah, people of old used to fast, so it should be good!

I'm all for the appreciation of indigenous people's wisdom and talents, but at one point, it's important to draw a line between superstition and fact.

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solstice said:
Myths are going to get you nowhere, facts though, will.

Of course fasting for days on end will make you hallucinate! Your body is fighting the lack of fuel! The hallucinations you might " enjoy " due to fasting are not spiritual at all, they are a sign that your body is acting out because it needs nutrients.

Oh yeah, people of old used to fast, so it should be good!

I'm all for the appreciation of indigenous people's wisdom and talents, but at one point, it's important to draw a line between superstition and fact.

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silosighbin said:

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solstice said:
Myths are going to get you nowhere, facts though, will.

Of course fasting for days on end will make you hallucinate! Your body is fighting the lack of fuel! The hallucinations you might " enjoy " due to fasting are not spiritual at all, they are a sign that your body is acting out because it needs nutrients.

Oh yeah, people of old used to fast, so it should be good!

I'm all for the appreciation of indigenous people's wisdom and talents, but at one point, it's important to draw a line between superstition and fact.

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You fail to understand how the body and soul are connected

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Please tell me then, oh enlightened one!

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i don't see why fasting would be so bad for you.

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solstice said:

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i don't see why fasting would be so bad for you.

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Tell me you're joking friend! You don't see how depriving your body of essential nourishment is bad?

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Sure, but it's also pretty difficult to kill yourself through starvation, so I don't know why you're having this over-the-top reaction to the subject.

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Once again, the topic here is fasting in a " spiritual " optic, which is something akin to brainwashing techniques sometimes used by the military and other fanatics in order to make followers more receptive.

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And the slope gets slipperier.  All I'm saying is that every once in awhile, people can gain something good from doing harm to themselves.  Many people do it in one way or another.  I'm not the fasting type, but I also don't have a problem with someone doing it and can see what the advantages might be.  I find if I push my eating time back just a little and become hungry, I get more clarity of thought.  Then after I eat, the clarity and energy are gone again.

How long would someone typically fast for spiritual purposes?  I find a lot of people who say they're fasting are cheating... they'll have water or juice or whatever... food basically. 

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I don't know why you're having this over-the-top reaction to the subject.

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Well, one of the reasons for it would be such an example: " All I'm saying is that every once in awhile, people can gain something good from doing harm to themselves."

uh... what? What's up with the tendency to seek self-punishment? Is that some lingering remnant of judeo-christian guilt people? What's next? self-flagellation?

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Many people do it in one way or another.

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I find if I push my eating time back just a little and become hungry, I get more clarity of thought.  Then after I eat, the clarity and energy are gone again.

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No offense friend, but don't you think that might have something to do with delusional thoughts due to lack of food? We could rephrase your intervention thus: I find that if I push my eating time back just a little and become hungry, I get light-headed. Then, after I eat, the clarity and energy are back to normal.

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sterbeklang said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but you're poisoning yourself to some extent with psychoactives in order to get high.    Shrooms make some people vomit.  Ayahuasca makes everyone vomit.  Coming down off of acid makes you all shivery, tight and tense.  Those are signs that the body is not entirely happy with what you are doing.

There are certain limits to which people can push their bodies/minds through physical ordeals and the altered reality that sets in because of it can sometimes be used for good.

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makes everyone vomit

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solstice said:
It is also well known, as I said, that the vomiting induced by ayahuasca does not happen because the body rejects the ayahuasca, the vomiting and/or the diarrhea happens because the body needs to clean itself.

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as fasting is not bad for the body. again, it flushes it of deadly toxins that we consume everyday. toxins from food, products used for the body etc. this has ben done for years through out history.

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In that case, you don't vomit or have diarrhea when you fast because your body is already purified from not eating.

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Therefore, your body can naturally go to higher realms without requiring you to take some alien molecule into your digestive tract

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Again, your previous statement would have to be backed by hard facts in order to make that one true. Therefore I will go on scoffing at claims of reaching " higher realms " made by people who shy away from food and will keep on going through the " trouble " of cooking healthy, organic food that does not keep one away from those " higher realms ", even though some may claim otherwise. At the very least, I'll have the luxury of being well adapted to the physical realm since I am still a mere mortal and as such, having to take care of my physical self... As for your " alien " molecules... you do know that dimethyltryptamine is endogenous right? And that phenylethylamines are to norepinephrine what DMT is to serotonin?

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Just tell me you're the product of a Greek, Italian or Jewish mother and I'll go away.  Aren't they the ones stereotypically overfeeding everyone?

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solstice said:

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In that case, you don't vomit or have diarrhea when you fast because your body is already purified from not eating.

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Sources for such a claim?

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It's simple logic.  When you fast, you don't have food in your digestive tract.  Therefore, there is nothing to purge from the system.  Therefore, if ayahuasca is making you vomit/diarrhea in order to purify you, then it must be the food that is making you impure.  Ayahuasca has to purge the food from your body before it can work.  People who fast have already skipped this step by purging their system on their own.

Yes, I have DMT in my brain naturally, but it is held at a certain level where I am not tripping balls 24/7.  Therefore, I posited that getting high off DMT is creating an unnatural chemical imbalance in the brain, not that the molecule itself was unnatural.  Of course, I'm not saying this is bad.  I'm down with both drugs and fasting.  Whatever you want to do.  Do both.  I don't care.

This argument is entirely impractical.  Perhaps people who fast are first purging their bodies of impurity (on their own) by fasting, then also manipulating the balance of brain chemicals (on their own) through meditation. 

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Solstice, are you aware that when you excersize, lift weights, etc...you are tearing muscle fibers, and it's the tearing and repairing of these muscle fibers that eventually leads to more dense, lean, and stronger muscles?

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Yes, I was more or less aware of that but I hardly think it is the same as completely cutting yourself off from food in order to achieve enlightenment Anywhere I see such a thing advertised, I react because some people might take it for truth...

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What makes you certain that what is more efficient or healthier for you may be the same for others?

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Who is left to draw the line between indigenous wisdom and indigenous myth?

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Is there anyway for you to be sure before you had tried yourself?

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It's simple logic.

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Yes, I have DMT in my brain naturally, but it is held at a certain level where I am not tripping balls 24/7.

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Therefore, I posited that getting high off DMT is creating an unnatural chemical imbalance in the brain, not that the molecule itself was unnatural.

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c0sm0nautt said:
Early man didn't have a choice to fast, he ate when the food was available. I don't see the point of fasting for days at a time, it seems like a impractical austerity. Didn't the Buddha choose the Middle Path for a reason? Fasting a few hours before taking psychedelics on the other hand makes sense, you don't want to mix impure foods with these sacraments.

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Solstice is the only one disagreeing. I think this is funny. Let him disagree.

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So what? Aren't you interested in a good debate? What's the point of hanging on a forum if it's not to exchange ideas and views? Would it be better if we all agreed? zzzzZZZZZzzzz

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IF he doesnt want to benefit from it, thats fine. we all know it can be beneficial for certain people including ourselves and can fast if we like.

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Just like tripping, not for everyone, maybe, but in time, we all wont be eating.

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I'd rather fast and eat healthy every 3 days than eat shit, Everyday.

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dieselkush said:
"Again, I did fast before so I know what I am talking about. Bottom line is, as the topic suggested, fasting to reach " spirituality ", as if spirituality was a place to reach, is foolish to the extreme"

for you maybe. but just like mushrooms, fasting can be a diffrent experience for every person. wether it be bad or good. you cant say its foolish because it didnt sit right with you. the thread I posted above is proof of that.

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dieselkush said:
id  bet on fasting, as much as I love the gift of mushrooms. Id go with the path that does not alter my state of mind with a substance. fasting is natural, and does not cause harm to the body. native americans would fast only for a few days, and travel/ hike etc. to reach spirituality. how long did you fast to reach it?
and maybe thats why so many people cannot reach it, or even comprehend it. its not a third world country. people can infatuate themselves with food on a daily basis, eating until they become obese and eat them selfs into a grave. fasting eliminates this new found food crave that people have. and not every person can go out and eat mushrooms to reach spirituality.

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Ahah, I think you're bullshitting me, unless you have too much money to spend.

Fasting is not natural, it's an unnatural mean of reaching an altered state of mind. If it was natural, we wouldn't call it fasting, we wouldn't see it as an austerity in the first place! If it was natural, it would flow easily, instead we all know that fasting is rowing against the current of normal body funtions. And I underline once more, just to make sure that I am understood properly, that I am talking on a spiritual level. I think this is a matter of cutting ourselves off from what the eco-system provides to us. Modern man often thinks that he can operate outside his own limits, that is, without collaboration with it's natural matrix. This is novel behavior that is spreading and growing in intensity throughout the world. The eco-system provides us with essential nourishment, cures, shelter, clothing as well as psychological catalysts and has been doing so since life has been multiplying on this planet and here we go thinking that we don't need it anymore.

Bad things will result of this behavior and it is already the case. Fasting is but an example of that stupid behavior, some of us thinking we can " get there " without the guide.

Ingesting plant material on the other hand, is natural. It's one of the primordial acts one has to perform in order to stay alive. Eating an apple alters your consciousness, drinking different types of water does too. Ingesting psycho-actives is simply taking this to another level. Even when you eat meat, you indirectly eat plant material, the animal acting as an intermediate between you and the plants, transmitting the nutrients through it's flesh.

Objectively, since both fasting and ingesting plants alter consciousness and since fasting goes against the grain of human metabolism, altering your mind through plant use is much more natural.

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how long did you fast to reach it?

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people can infatuate themselves with food on a daily basis, eating until they become obese and eat them selfs into a grave. fasting eliminates this new found food crave that people have.

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dieselkush said:
"History of Fasting for Spiritual Breakthrough

Fasting has been practiced by humans and animals since history began. It was really the only method for healing that primitive man had (other than some herbs from nature). They would fast when they became hurt or ill. It was a natural instinct for self preservation

Fasting (spiritual and non-spiritual) has been around for a very long time. Spiritual Fasting has some importance in almost every religion. The Bible, alone, has 74 references to it. Spiritual fasting is mentioned in both the Old and New Testament, in the Mahabharata, in the Upanishads and in the Qur'an.

Jesus fasted for 40 days, and his disciples took part in many long fasts. All of history�s greatest spiritual teachers took part in spiritual fasting. They all understood the power of fasting for spiritual breakthrough. Now, you are being exposed to it!

Benefits of Spiritual Fasting

The benefits of spiritual fasting are both physical and non-physical. Many of the effects cannot even be described and/or scientifically proven. Below, I will list some of the main effects of spiritual fasting.

First of all you are no longer controlled by food. I am amazed each time I do a fast how free I feel. You will notice that you have so much more time. You are not a slave to your food. Your regain your mastery over it. After fasting, you do not eat as much as you use to. This is because you have more mental power to control food, and your stomach shrinks slightly.

Fasting for spiritual breakthrough has also been known to reduce mouth and body odor. Many people have reported no longer needing to use any kind of deodorants, after taking part in regular spiritual fasting.

Spiritual fasting has many benefits for your body. It gives your body a physiological rest. During this time, you body is also able to get rid of toxins. Basically fasting for spiritual breakthrough allows your body to relax and let go, which causes a very powerful internal cleansing.

Spiritual fasting can be a very empowering experience. If you are able to complete it, you feel sense of accomplishment and freedom. I have found spiritual fasting is a great way for me to become inspired. It has also been know to cause a calming effect. And for some people it induces feelings of euphoria, it is like a natural high.

Overall, fasting for spiritual breakthrough cleans the body-mind and feeds the spirit.

�All the vitality and energy I have comes to me because my body is purified by fasting.�-Gandhi"

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Fasting has been practiced by humans and animals since history began.

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It was really the only method for healing that primitive man had (other than some herbs from nature).

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Fasting (spiritual and non-spiritual) has been around for a very long time. Spiritual Fasting has some importance in almost every religion. The Bible, alone, has 74 references to it. Spiritual fasting is mentioned in both the Old and New Testament, in the Mahabharata, in the Upanishads and in the Qur'an.

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First of all you are no longer controlled by food. I am amazed each time I do a fast how free I feel.

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Fasting for spiritual breakthrough has also been known to reduce mouth and body odor.

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Uh... wait a minute... what? So does washing yourself mate.

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Many people have reported no longer needing to use any kind of deodorants, after taking part in regular spiritual fasting.

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Fuck off! It takes more than that to prove anything.

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Spiritual fasting has many benefits for your body. It gives your body a physiological rest. During this time, you body is also able to get rid of toxins. Basically fasting for spiritual breakthrough allows your body to relax and let go, which causes a very powerful internal cleansing.

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Spiritual fasting can be a very empowering experience.

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Says my guru. A week into fasting he told me that lending him my house was also a very holy act.

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Overall, fasting for spiritual breakthrough cleans the body-mind and feeds the spirit.

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“All the vitality and energy I have comes to me because my body is purified by fasting.”-Gandhi"

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Why do you think that fasting is detrimental to your physical health?

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I seem to be the only one coming up with proof that fasting is healthy and natural for the body. wheres yours?

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I never said that fasting is not good for health, if done responsibly. What I am saying is that " spiritual fasts " are bullshit

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I seem to be the only one coming up with proof

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fasting is foolish because you've done it. its funny how many religions, and people all through out history have reached spirituality through fasting. but yet you never have

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maybe you need to reassess your method, psychedelics will help you reach enlightenment, and spirituality. but there are different types and levels. mushrooms gives you a certain type, and fasting does as well. it doesn't make mushrooms foolish, nor does it make fasting foolish. especially when you take the proper route to fasting.

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give me one article, one fact that fasting for spirituality is "unhealthy and dangerous".

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one article where some one has died fasting.

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Fraggin said:
When a majaraji is ready to leave this world, they take a seated position and stop eating.

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That's because their religion prohibits them from using morphine so they want to escape the pain and this world, faster.

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solstice said:

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Fraggin said:
When a majaraji is ready to leave this world, they take a seated position and stop eating.

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That's because their religion prohibits them from using morphine so they want to escape the pain and this world, faster.

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Well done to them!

If this world becomes hell for you, its the greatest blessing in disguise

The deeper you are forced to look within the more auspicious the life

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solstice said:
My opinion on this is that it is highly irresponsible to suggest that fasting might help you in spiritual pursuits,

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Do not assume that holding out on food for a period of time is detrimental to the body.

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Damn! You guys really love repeating yourselves!

But anyway, what does it have to do with enlightenment due to fasting?

I'll be short and right to the point.

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Fasting, when done correctly, can help one achieve enlightened states of mind.

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A strong shift in perception can occur when one is fasting

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Of course! Your body is acting on a defense mechanism, the effects due to this state, hallucinations etc cannot be considered spiritual if they are the result of abnormal body reactions. Basically, you are saying that the body reactions to abnormal conditions have spiritual potential.

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That is why you will read about many spiritual figures that have fasted.

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This one was played out by our good friend dieselkush. I hardly think that using Jeebus and Muhammad and Indian fakirs as examples constitutes hard evidence

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Fraggin said:
Solstice... lol... Why do you keep trying to sway people from their belief that fasting does this or that?

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Hey, I'm not trying to sway anyone, that's not my main objective anyway. I began by answering the OP's question and then I got rallied against! Now what I'm trying to do is to demonstrate that belief in the spiritual benefits of fasting is at best superstition and at worst a fool's shot at enlightenment.

Basically, I'm riled up against it because it is dangerous but still considered and encouraged by some even though there are much safer methods out there, methods that actually produce quantitative results!! Believe it or not!!

Entheogens people! What the fuck are we doing here if we are not rooting for good ol' psychedelics?

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You can't "prove" enlightened states of mind.

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Well... that's kind of my point dude. How then, can some of you pretend that fasting produces such results?

I've said this before but the only thing, the only thing that comes even close to what all your favorite gurus pretend is possible are entheogenic plants. The rest is just poor substitute at best because none of them, unlike psychedelics, can hold their promise under the eye of objectivity.

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Fraggin said:
If you wanna detox, you just need to stop putting toxic stuff into your body and put only pure, clean, unadulterated nutrition into your body.

First time fast, I would just go 12 hours.

If you wanna do a day, then try a few days at limiting your intake to raw foods before you go a full fast.

That way you will see how strong food addictions are if you eat processed foods, sugars and fatty fried things.

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Gotta listen to your body and learn your own limits and preferences.

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What is strange if you have never fasted before, is that your brain and body still function well.

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wrong identification with the body is what needs to be corrected, not the bodys habits & tendencies,

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yabbahabba said:
Fasting isn't starving. One type I know of is you eat necessary nutrition before the sun rises and after it sets. It's not psuedo-science.  It's not some miracle diet or something, and just because it doesn't magically put tryptamines into your system doesn't mean it won't induce some soul-searching and new perspectives on how you live your life.  It forces you to realize that you're addicted to allievating the sensation of hunger without giving it any thought. And to live without addiction is the definition of freedom. If there's things in life you don't want to let go of, they're keeping you from being free. And there has to be less healthy things you do on a regular basis than not eating food all day.

If you were a devout drug-free person and I came up to you and said, "eat these mushrooms. They will induce a profound spiritual experience." Wouldn't you scoff at such absurdity?

"That's the fucking stupidest thing ever, there's this guy at our local nut house who thinks he's a glass of orange juice and he's scared shitless that he's going to spill over! Get a fucking clue moron."

Feel me? Maybe JUST TRY to get in some whole wheat toast with fruit, a glass of milk and water, couple walnuts or something before the sun comes up, abstain from all cravings, then have a similar sized meal after it sets? Try it for 3 days? What do you have to lose Mr. Spiritually Enlightened?

PS: Vanilla yogurt with chopped fruit, granola mix, and chopped walnuts together are super-healthy and oh-so-delicious.

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Damn, this thread is back from the dead! And it was brought back by someone who didn't like my view on fasting! Not only that, but that someone is making assumptions about my lifestyle!

Let me set things objectively straight, something you don't seem inclined to do, calling me Mr. Enlightened and all that nonsense.

Fasting may not be the same as starving, but fasting with the goal of reaching a higher spiritual state is bullocks. And that was the idea for the thread.

As for the different types of fasting related to spirituality, believe you me, I know of them and not just theoricaly. Fact is, plants are much more responsible for my current "spiritual" state than all those fasts put together. Why? Because plants are part of the physical world and as such, they contain and transmit specific energetic frequencies and by ingesting them, you are enabled to attune yourself, if only for a short while, to those vibrations making you potentially aware of what is needed in order to balance harmony, within yourself as well as outside yourself. Making an effort to stray from automatic behaviors does make you aware of how automatic those behaviors were in the first place, yes, but thinking that by denying your body proper nourishment is going to elevate your mind to new heights is foolish and dangerous and as I said before in this very thread, a mean often used by cults to weaken the spirit of devotees in order to manipulate them easier. The fact that fasting was taken out of cult context and practiced individually doesn't make it more efficient.

Furthermore, the body is where the spirit resides while we are on this planet. And so, in order that the spirit, by spirit I mean the energetic self of various degree, may reach it's full potential, it needs a harmonious physical anchor. By keeping the physical body from being properly fed, washed and protected etc, you are creating disturbances that inevitably affect your energetic self. It's all part of this quite new ideology, a rather binary and dualistic one, that came about about six thousand years ago, which stated that to chose to devote one's self to spirituality, one must renounce the material.

What non-sense. Harmony is what is needed and every part has it's importance it's the process.

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If you were a devout drug-free person and I came up to you and said, "eat these mushrooms. They will induce a profound spiritual experience." Wouldn't you scoff at such absurdity?

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iluvfungi said:
I think it goes hand in hand, that many of us are trying to find inner peace and with such, that we use any means available to achieve such peace. Hence, fasting is often viewed as a spiritual tool. What is strange if you have never fasted before, is that your brain and body still function well.

Please open discussion regarding this material.

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yabbahabba said:
My appologies, didn't know you'd tried it out. Had I known that I would've still disagreed with you but moved on. I'm sure you can understand my approach lacking this knowledge of you. I just don't believe occasional proper fasting to be malnourishment/foolish/dangerous. But, to each his own.

>>one is tempted to label you with a highly assumptive personality...<<

Yeah, pretty much. Coming to conclusions based on whatever information they have at the time...I think that's something most people do...  And what does your statement say of yours?

Calm down man.

You shouldn't have taken me calling you mr spiritually enlightened so seriously, and I don't believe it was off the mark, seeing as how you came off pretty much as hostile dismissing other people's beliefs and experiences as cult rubbish.

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Yeah, pretty much. Coming to conclusions based on whatever information they have at the time...I think that's something most people do...  And what does your statement say of yours?

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