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 IdeLOLogies
Strange
Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 460
Last seen: 21 hours, 15 minutes
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 Re: Guns don't kill people...  [Re: mr_kite]
#10423803 - 05/30/09 06:19 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
The people who would be willing to give up that right are not the people who would be killing others with guns in the first place.
Yeah but you didn't read my post. How often is there a massacre? Where do the mentalists get their weapons? Most often they steal them from uncle or grandad. Maybe pops isnt going to shoot anyone but the more guns there are, the easier it is for crazy folk to get them (see: logic)
Even if that only saves 20 lives a year, is that not worth it, from a human being to a human being point of view?
A lot of people that i meet are shit heads anyway, can i just imagine that these 20 people a year are just shit heads?
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God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad.
Why does God give us anything?
Look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, it would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power.
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: grewya]
#10423806 - 05/30/09 06:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'd just like you to admit it, you care more about holding a metal object that can kill, than you do about other human beings. Otherwise the question is a no brainer. You'll come up with any number of arguments (criminals, hunting) as to why you and other chaps should get to keep your gun, just to avoid the simple truth that your and the rest of America's relationship with guns means that more people are killed needlessly.
Maybe you love guns cos the ancient parts of your male brain hardware are still wired for a different sort of survival than comfortable modern living, and you've not updated your software  You talk about your freedom and your rights; what about the rights of people NOT to get shot at and killed? That's a pretty basic freedom right there IMO
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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stubborn
Opening My Third Eye
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 64
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: igwna]
#10423808 - 05/30/09 06:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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If we gave up our rights to bear arms, then only criminals and the govt. would own them. Does this make us safe? Do you really want less freedom? Are more laws what we really need?
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423818 - 05/30/09 06:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said: You talk about your freedom and your rights; what about the rights of people NOT to get shot at and killed? That's a pretty basic freedom right there IMO
Just because some people use guns irresponsibly does not grant you the right to take guns away from responsible users, who should be keeping their guns in a locked cabinet so nobody else can use them.
This is about as bad an argument as proposing to ban cars because some people get in accidents and kill people with them.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: stubborn]
#10423819 - 05/30/09 06:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
stubborn said:
If we gave up our rights to bear arms, then only criminals and the govt. would own them. Does this make us safe? Do you really want less freedom? Are more laws what we really need?
Again, see other countries with prohibition which are safer to live in, don't have mass shootings on a regular basis, ie direct link between gun ownership and murder rate
And again, what freedom are you talking about exactly? Not to get shot at?
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: deCypher]
#10423824 - 05/30/09 06:28 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Just because some people use guns irresponsibly does not grant you the right to take guns away from responsible users, who should be keeping their guns in a locked cabinet so nobody else can use them.
Ill repeat this bit.....I'd just like you to admit it, you care more about holding a metal object that can kill, than you do about other human beings. Otherwise the question is a no brainer.
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423825 - 05/30/09 06:28 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said:
Again, see other countries with prohibition which are safer to live in, don't have mass shootings on a regular basis, ie direct link between gun ownership and murder rate
Correlation does not equal causation. The lower murder rate could be due to any number of other things, including a less violent culture.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423826 - 05/30/09 06:29 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said: I'd just like you to admit it, you care more about holding a metal object that can kill, than you do about other human beings.
This makes absolutely no sense. If I keep my gun in a locked cabinet, so nobody else can use it, and if I only use it responsibly at a target range or to go hunting, then there is no lack of 'caring about other human beings'.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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grewya
Gone Fishin'
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 1,667
Loc: Land 'O' 10,000 Lakes
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423827 - 05/30/09 06:29 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Approx. 115 people die each day in car accidents in the U.S.
I propose a nationwide car ban!
Save the people! 
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<º))))><
<º))))><
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: deCypher]
#10423832 - 05/30/09 06:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
mr_kite said:
Correlation does not equal causation. The lower murder rate could be due to any number of other things, including a less violent culture.
OK, ban guns, see what happens and get back to me on that one. Many guns making a culture more violent? That's crazy talk I suppose
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: grewya]
#10423837 - 05/30/09 06:35 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
grewya20 said:
Approx. 115 people die each day in car accidents in the U.S.
I propose a nationwide car ban!
Save the people!
A car is not designed as a weapon, most people use it as a mode of transport, so that argument is a bit doofus.
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423842 - 05/30/09 06:37 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said:
OK, ban guns, see what happens and get back to me on that one. Many guns making a culture more violent? That's crazy talk I suppose
Would a peaceful nation even use guns? I'll agree that the presence of guns may contribute to violence, but we wouldn't have them in the first place if we didn't already have violent tendencies.
Ban guns and people will kill each other with knives.  All I know is that the best thing for home defense is a shotgun.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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igwna
The Cap'n
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 7,995
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 17 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423844 - 05/30/09 06:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said:
Quote:
grewya20 said:
Approx. 115 people die each day in car accidents in the U.S.
I propose a nationwide car ban!
Save the people!
A car is not designed as a weapon, most people use it as a mode of transport, so that argument is a bit doofus.
Obviously you havent seen my car 
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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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stubborn
Opening My Third Eye
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 64
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423846 - 05/30/09 06:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Correlation is not causation. It's the different lifestyles of these other countries that make them safer. Guns are in the hands of criminals already. Making guns illegal doesn't make them disappear. Did making drugs illegal make them disappear? How does taking them away from noncriminals help? Your logic is flawed. You can't solve every problem with more sunshine, flowers, and rainbows.
Guns sometimes save lives too, but you'll obviously never accept that.
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: deCypher]
#10423847 - 05/30/09 06:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
This makes absolutely no sense. If I keep my gun in a locked cabinet, so nobody else can use it, and if I only use it responsibly at a target range or to go hunting, then there is no lack of 'caring about other human beings'.
You're ignoring what I actually mean and my logic because you love guns so much. I don't care about you using your gun safe. The fact is that not all people are that responsible, and because of your system, somewhere along the line safety's going to break down and people are going to get killed. The only way to get over this is to all give up your weapons, because you care more about people than weapons. You gun people are weird 
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: deCypher]
#10423850 - 05/30/09 06:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
mr_kite said:
OK, ban guns, see what happens and get back to me on that one. Many guns making a culture more violent? That's crazy talk I suppose
Would a peaceful nation even use guns? I'll agree that the presence of guns may contribute to violence, but we wouldn't have them in the first place if we didn't already have violent tendencies.
Ban guns and people will kill each other with knives. All I know is that the best thing for home defense is a shotgun.
It's hard to walk into a room and kill 20 people with a knife, unless you're Rambo. WIth a gun its kind of simple.
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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stubborn
Opening My Third Eye
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 64
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: stubborn]
#10423852 - 05/30/09 06:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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P.S. alcohol kills way more people than anything else. Do you want to give up that freedom too? We should all just let the government control our lives, right?
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423853 - 05/30/09 06:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said:
You're ignoring what I actually mean and my logic because you love guns so much.
I don't particularly love guns, but I do hate people who want to strip away my rights.
Quote:
mr_kite said:
I don't care about you using your gun safe. The fact is that not all people are that responsible, and because of your system, somewhere along the line safety's going to break down and people are going to get killed. The only way to get over this is to all give up your weapons, because you care more about people than weapons. You gun people are weird
If everyone voluntarily handed in their guns, then yes I agree that the world would be a safer place. As it stands, criminals (namely the people who use guns to murder the most often) would not voluntarily do so, and the responsible gun users who only use guns for hunting, self-defense, and target shooting would have their rights unfairly stripped away.
You are advocating an unrealistic policy change.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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grewya
Gone Fishin'
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 1,667
Loc: Land 'O' 10,000 Lakes
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: mr_kite]
#10423860 - 05/30/09 06:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said:
Quote:
grewya20 said:
Approx. 115 people die each day in car accidents in the U.S.
I propose a nationwide car ban!
Save the people!
A car is not designed as a weapon, most people use it as a mode of transport, so that argument is a bit doofus.
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<º))))><
<º))))><
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
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Re: Guns don't kill people... [Re: stubborn]
#10423864 - 05/30/09 06:48 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
stubborn said:
Correlation is not causation. It's the different lifestyles of these other countries that make them safer.
I doubt the UK is much less violent than the US, we still have a lot of knife crime, it's just not as deadly as gun crime. Violence will never go away but you can limit it. Like by not having guns
Quote:
Guns are in the hands of criminals already. Making guns illegal doesn't make them disappear.
When has a massacre been carried out by an established criminal? Theyre kids man. This isn't my argument, Im not talking about the black market which is there in every country. see: entire thread
Quote:
Your logic is flawed. You can't solve every problem with more sunshine, flowers, and rainbows.
Ahhhh now you're insinuating Im 
Quote:
Guns sometimes save lives too, but you'll obviously never accept that.
Yeah but overall Im pretty sure the life count is in the negative
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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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