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Prisoner#1 said:

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meams said:

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Kukaracha said:
This might be art, but it's a rifle that was specially crafted as an artpiece. Japanese katanas for example were made by blacksmiths, some famous, as a unique piece, while guns are masse produced and just look "cool".

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OK, you win.  From now on we'll only produce things that don't look cool, serve a distinct non-lethal purpose, and can not possibly be used to kill someone.

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you may as well move to france you surrendermonkey

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meams said:OK, you win.  From now on we'll only produce things that don't look cool, serve a distinct non-lethal purpose, and can not possibly be used to kill someone.

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meams said:
That story was a perfect example of a reason I would carry a firearm.  More often than not, that car that's circling isn't carrying a vigilante security guard, it's carrying 3 or 4 gang members cruisin for trouble   Exactly the situation that would require (a) a gun, or (b) [as you recommended] 5+ years of martial arts training.  I have other shit to do, I choose option A.

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meams said:
That's a dumb statement.  You should probably just give up.

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Could you be a bit more argumentative?

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meams said:
No, it doesn't bother me.  They got that big because of our dollar votes.  We made them that big.

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Kukaracha said:
What's wrong with France? There are nice people there.
PM me, I'd like to know why you hate us so much.

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I like my Freedom Fries!

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Kukaracha said:
I just don't see the point in having lethal weapons as "cool" things. Or you might want to admit that you'd like to shoot someone and/or feel powerful.

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Kukaracha said:
What's wrong with France? There are nice people there.
PM me, I'd like to know why you hate us so much.

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nice people, try wearing this and see how nice they are

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Prisoner#1 said:

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Kukaracha said:
What's wrong with France? There are nice people there.
PM me, I'd like to know why you hate us so much.

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nice people, try wearing this and see how nice they are

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Prisoner#1 said:well it seems that not everone can afford 20 years of training
before being able to defend themselves, you're suggesting that I
send my 90yo grand mother to the local dojo to be tossed around
as opposed to use the .357 the army trained her to shoot, the
same pistol that's saved her life more than once like the time
she was coming home from work and someone tossed a trash can
under the front of the old convertible pontiac, when she stopped
someone jumped on top and cut a hole in the top...

why not base your argument in reality, this isnt 1890s china, we
dont have everyone challenging everyone to a fight i the town
square to prove whos kung fu is the best, lets take a look at
how well those fighters did in the boxer rebellion against the
guns of americans, japanese and british, lets ask ourselves why
the samurai gave up their swords for guns

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Prisoner#1 said:

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Kukaracha said:
What's wrong with France? There are nice people there.
PM me, I'd like to know why you hate us so much.

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nice people, try wearing this and see how nice they are

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mr_kite said:

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deCypher said:
Just because some people use guns irresponsibly does not grant you the right to take guns away from responsible users, who should be keeping their guns in a locked cabinet so nobody else can use them.

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Ill repeat this bit.....I'd just like you to admit it, you care more about holding a metal object that can kill, than you do about other human beings. Otherwise the question is a no brainer.

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Kukaracha said:
Well, since Canada banned firearms, firearms crimes dropped of 52% if I remember correctly. And I've got nothing against art pieces, it's fine IMO to have a unique rifle, if it's art.
About your example of cars, you said it yourself, cars weren't made to kill. Cars create accidents, not murders.

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And when I say "people who one day needed them", it's like a friend who got a gun to see his girlfriend. He had troubles with the guys from her town, so he tried to get a gun, and used blanks. He got a gun for this very particular reason, so he could keep on seeing her without having any problem -  not as a "just in case" gun.

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Ph, I forget about elders all the time. I never hear about old people being attacked though, there is still some respect for them.

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And your second argument works against you too: having a gun doesn't mean it's going to be a western duel. People get shot in the back (actually, SAA legends were mainly shot in the back I think, too).

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And while that city is the safest in the US, why does that country still have a high murder rate? If one city has many guns everywhere, criminality in that city is dangerous; however, there are other cities around which are better preys. But what if the whole country forced every person to have a gun? Wouldn't criminality become more violent, since guns would be swarming?

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I will also add that I remain careful about the last link you gave me. And that fighting poverty is better than shooting criminals, I think!
You do have good points about self-defense, though.

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Kukaracha said:
An about Paris, it's not that bad!

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The war of Irak heated all that up (France opposed its veto against it, which Bush ignored).

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Prisoner#1 said:
how about canada had an increase in firearms violence by 32%
and an increase in violence with other weapons, the gun homicide
rate has remained stable since prior to the ban

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In 1991, when I began this journey, there were 1,444 gun deaths and in 2001 there were 842. Firearm robberies have declined dramatically over the decade by 64% since 1991, from 8,995 to 3,474. Domestic homicides with firearms have fallen according to the latest report on intimate partner homicide from Statistics Canada.

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Prisoner#1 said:
cars do not cause accidents any more than guns cause crimes,
people are responsible and everyone wants to blame the object,
to vilify it as though it pulled it's own trigger, and I guess
you're unaware that people in cars do commit murders with those
cars, you can articulate it any way you want but the guy that
hits someone on 'accident' and kills them is no different than
the guy that shoots someone with a gun that 'wasnt loaded' when
he started cleaning it

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Uh, car murders aren't really common.
I mean, you can't get a car inside a house.

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Prisoner#1 said:
so in essence the people you advocate to use guns are the ones
that are more likely to use it, now what's the point of a gun
without bullets, to have a noisy rock? suppose the guys realize
that after firing 6 shots he's not hit a single person, they go
back, kill him and take his gun and load it with real bullets
and kill dozens more... seems your example is foolish and simply
adds to the problem... especially since his gun was bought 'just
in case'

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And while that city is the safest in the US, why does that country still have a high murder rate? If one city has many guns everywhere, criminality in that city is dangerous; however, there are other cities around which are better preys. But what if the whole country forced every person to have a gun? Wouldn't criminality become more violent, since guns would be swarming?

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Prisoner#1 said:
want to fight poverty, it starts with the people and needs help
from government, stop giving hand outs to those that wont work,
stop doling out community service to petty criminals and place
these impoverished in the jobs, the problem with poverty is that
we support those the refuse to work, if we'd let them starve
then they'd either work or die out, you've heard the expression
'charity starts at home', well it's up to me to help my friends
and neighbors, not up to me to help israel build a war machine
or north korea to build nuclear bombs

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Kukaracha said:
Are you sure of what you are saying?
http://www.iansa.org/regions/namerica/victims_defend_gun_control.htm

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In 1991, when I began this journey, there were 1,444 gun deaths and in 2001 there were 842. Firearm robberies have declined dramatically over the decade by 64% since 1991, from 8,995 to 3,474. Domestic homicides with firearms have fallen according to the latest report on intimate partner homicide from Statistics Canada.

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I guess we need to compare sources...

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I'm sure the stats from an organization hellbent on banning firearms is going to be accurate

lets see what canada actually has to say

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Canada's 2006 firearm homicide rate was nearly six times lower than the United States. But it was about three times higher than the rate in Australia and six times higher than in England and Wales. The rate of non-firearm homicide was fairly similar in all four countries.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/

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well, only one sixth the rate of the US with one tenth the population of the US, and this is with canada restricting firearms, my goodness, it's just not safe in canada

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Uh, car murders aren't really common.
I mean, you can't get a car inside a house.

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you're probably mistaken about that

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No, he got a gun so he could scare them away. They're not tough guys who will stay there insulting him if he's pointing a gun at them.
He got a gun to be safe, and then stopped carrying it when he didn't need it.

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so he bought a gun to scare people that called him names, lets
talk about irresponsible behavior for a second, a little name
calling doesnt equate to 'life endangering' situations, guns are
not toys and your friends actions are exactly the type of thing
that leads to all these shootings that you're referring to, guns
are a tool, they can be used to save lives and sometimes that
may involve taking a life, it's not an easy decision to make but
the actions of your friend were just stupid and irresponsible

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Gun control makes guns rare, whatever you want to say about it, since people can't openly show they own firearms without getting into trouble.

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cun control only makes guns rare for the law abiding citizens,
it certainly doesnt take them from criminals, black market guns
are common, just ask the people in any country where gun control
laws have been implemented, mexico for instance
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/lt_drug_war_mexico

does it appear to you that criminals will cease to exist once
firearms are banned? seriously, look at the news, look at crime
statistics compiled by the governments, it's less safe for the
citizens when only criminals have guns

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But what if the whole country forced every person to have a gun? Wouldn't criminality become more violent, since guns would be swarming?

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And read again what I wrote here, I think you didn't understand.

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mr_kite said:
Guns don't kill people,

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Mandrake said:
I don't actually hate the French it's just fun to poke fun at them.

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