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 CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,036
Loc: clawing your furniture
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"Strain" doesn't actually mean what it is sold as. Every different patch of P. cubensis you find will be a distinct "strain". Because the term "strain" is misapplied by spore vendors, most people have a misconception of what it actually entails. Since "strain" as an industry term has no meaning based in reality, it is impossible to identify any P. cubensis to "strain".
The exception would be PE, albino, or red-spored varieties. But those do not technically constitute "strains".
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 Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer
Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 16,545
Loc: Uk / Philippines
Last seen: 5 months, 3 hours
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 Re: Strain Forum  [Re: Roadkill]
#10452233 - 06/04/09 07:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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a cube is a cube 
Quote:
Roadkill said:
Need to pick a strain?
here ya go...
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mushroomhunter10
Jack-Of-All-Trades
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 3,357
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Re: Strain Forum [Re: CureCat]
#10452432 - 06/04/09 09:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said:
The exception would be PE, albino, or red-spored varieties. But those do not technically constitute "strains".
What do you mean?
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,580
Loc: Snoqualmie, Wa.
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Quote:
george castanza said:
You just do not like this idea because I thought of it first.
Do not let you personal dislike of me get in the way of a good idea.
lolzz
Your not the first to come up with this idea...
and you won't be the last.
So don't give yourself too much credit.
I don't dislike you or have anything against you personally.
I moved your off topic thread out of the Mush Cult forum because it didn't belong in there.
And I had already responded to to this thread before you made your off topic thread in the Mush Cult...
so you are grasping for straws.
tc
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Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with  on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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lipa
Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 1,876
Loc: USA 
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Re: Strain Forum [Re: Roadkill]
#10454284 - 06/04/09 04:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Has anyone ever witnessed a PE, albino, or red-spored or any other cube present a variation of itself from its own offspring? I have
I personally don't see a need for a forum where all we do is talk about the different colors, shapes, behaviors, or mutations of a Psilocybe cubensis mushroom. I think i would get sick to my stomach from reading such a never ending story. There are billions and billions of phenotypes out there and I think it would just cause a lot of he says she says...... which is annoying. I do however like to see the variations from grows. Making it a big deal out of every single one. No thanks!. Mix and match at your own pleasure and share the pics and offspring so others can do the same. The basic genetics of a Psilocybe cubensis is not going to change. If it did then it wouldn't be a cube. We would have decribed it as a different species.
I have grown many cubes that say that they are unique only to find that I can make them look different by changing the enviroment in which it is growing in. A cube is a cube!
Lipa
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John Landis Mason is my hero 
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CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,036
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Quote:
mushroomhunter10 said:
Quote:
CureCat said:
The exception would be PE, albino, or red-spored varieties. But those do not technically constitute "strains".
What do you mean?
I mean that those mentioned types are just exaggerated or mutant phenotypes (expressed allele), which are readily transferred to offspring (as most phenotypes will).
And I mean that every time you grow, let's say, PE from spores, each grow will be a distinct organism, and thus a distinct strain. Unless you clone, in which case the clone will be the same strain from the original cloned organism.
It might be more apt to refer to those notable "strains" as forms or varieties. But I wouldn't actually propose those uses, as there has been no research to substantiate that sort of delineation.
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mushroomhunter10
Jack-Of-All-Trades
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 3,357
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Re: Strain Forum [Re: CureCat]
#10456382 - 06/04/09 10:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So if I knock up these PE spores I have. You're saying they won't look like PE??
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Newbie
User of semicolons.
Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 23,015
Loc: Suburbia
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It'll look like PE because they came from a PE mushroom. When a PE mushroom drops its spores its passing the genetics on to another generation. It's still cubensis, but the traits that make it look like a dick were preserved, that's why it's considered a strain.
Edited by Newbie (06/04/09 10:17 PM)
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CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,036
Loc: clawing your furniture
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 Re: Strain Forum [Re: Newbie]
#10457037 - 06/04/09 11:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushroomhunter10 said:
So if I knock up these PE spores I have. You're saying they won't look like PE??
No, that is not what I said.
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mushroomhunter10
Jack-Of-All-Trades
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 3,357
Loc: Midwest
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Re: Strain Forum [Re: CureCat]
#10457508 - 06/05/09 01:25 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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But.
If a new MS inoculation is considered a new strain, then what are the chances the fruits won't look like PE?
--------------------
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CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,036
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Quote:
mushroomhunter10 said:
But.
If a new MS inoculation is considered a new strain, then what are the chances the fruits won't look like PE?
Chances are very slim that the resulting mushrooms will not look like PE.
You're missing my point completely.
German Kahuna did a nice job of explaining the point in this thread:
Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Or we could expand the game. Let's add strain names to ALL mushrooms from now on.
"What strain is that Amanita muscaria you got there?"
"It's the 'behind the house and 50 meters into the woods' strain".
"Interesting. And the other one?"
"Oh, this is the 'Multigasm Magic' strain. I found it a few hundred yards up the road."
Funny thing is, I know at least 6 different cubensis "strains" that were collected on the island of Koh Samui alone. If you know the size of that Island (you can go all the way around it by car in about an hour and that's with taking 5 or 6 stops for sightseeing) then you see that my fictitious dialog isn't actually that far off.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9724864#9724864
Or remember this thread?? The emergence of the Super Blue Paddy Pumper strain!
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mushroomhunter10
Jack-Of-All-Trades
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 3,357
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Re: Strain Forum [Re: CureCat]
#10458498 - 06/05/09 09:09 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Okay thanks. 
--------------------
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,269
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
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LOL @ even this turning into a strain thread.
A strain forum or sub forum would be bad because it would be giving credence to the mistaken belief that 'strain' is more than a marketing tool. We don't see experienced members posting "what strain is most potent" type questions. It's all new growers, who think somehow the concept of strain they're used to with pot carries over to mushrooms, which it doesn't.
If you look in the current strain thread, it's full of noobs posting such things EQ is a fast colonizer, PR is hard to fruit, PB is contam resistant, etc, none of which is true. It's their experience from one grow using multispore inoculation, which is about as accurate as Roadkill's dartboard with a blind guy tossing the darts.
RR
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mushroomhunter10
Jack-Of-All-Trades
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 3,357
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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I could have sworn you stated that PE is the one exception to the rule of "a cube is a cube" in respect to potency though.
I was interested in MS phenotypes with PE too.
--------------------
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 15,862
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 6 hours, 15 minutes
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Feel free to use the info in my journal. I'll help in any way possible.
Strain discussion, while annoying to vets, is what n00bs crave. They should have easy access to any FACTUAL info about any strain they wish to learn about.
While most strains are nearly identical... the unique/mutant cubes are fascinating and different. Also, every strain has an origin story many of which are exotic and entertaining tales of great mycologists in the field... literally in a poo-filled field.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
Edited by Cervantes (06/12/09 07:41 PM)
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george castanza
Lord Of The Idiots!
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 6,644
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OK, so for now lets just use Cervantes' journal, because he has already set it all up like a strain forum anyhow. Maybe a new strain thread by Cervantes? The old one is getting kind of messy. I would like to thank everyone for for there efforts in commenting in this thread. With special thanks to CureCat for arguing the opposition so eloquently. Oh, and really it should be called a Race Forum.
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Quote:
pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.
ROTHBURY
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 15,862
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 6 hours, 15 minutes
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Depending on my free time, we are probably a week or two away from having a Shroomery quality forum... made out of my journal.
Everybody, feel free to see what has been done so far, and add any info that you feel is missing. I'm not concerned about potency or rizo colonization... rather, how were these 'Strains' discovered, who collected the first specimen and what if anything makes them unique.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 15,862
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 6 hours, 15 minutes
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
LOL @ even this turning into a strain thread.
A strain forum or sub forum would be bad because it would be giving credence to the mistaken belief that 'strain' is more than a marketing tool. We don't see experienced members posting "what strain is most potent" type questions. It's all new growers, who think somehow the concept of strain they're used to with pot carries over to mushrooms, which it doesn't.
If you look in the current strain thread, it's full of noobs posting such things EQ is a fast colonizer, PR is hard to fruit, PB is contam resistant, etc, none of which is true. It's their experience from one grow using multispore inoculation, which is about as accurate as Roadkill's dartboard with a blind guy tossing the darts.
RR
I almost agree with everything you have said...
However (You knew there'd be a 'however' didn't you?) it is clear you have not been looking at your Strain Thread very often... even though you were the one who started it. I've been quelling as much misinformation as I can. The discussions have been much more interesting and informative than you've suggested in the post I quoted above ^^^. It was clear a year and a half ago that you were sick and tired of talking about 'strains' in Mush Cult so I took the baton from you, and have been doing a vast amount of the leg work ever since. I simply can't lock the vast amount of threads you've been locking.
BUT, since you and the other Mush Cult Mods have been locking every strain related thread for the last few years, we've lost the ability to discuss the origins of many cubes. The only thing that makes most 'Strains' unique is their origin, or who found them. Vendors, more often than not, fail to credit the people who did the leg work. The FEW unique cubes that exist can't be discussed either... which means vendors are less likely to preserve the integrity of these unique cubes.
By moving all 'strain' discussion to a thread which caters to n00bs, Veterans are LESS LIKELY to add what they know about a particular 'strain's' history.
All this does is make it easier for vendors to sell whatever they want, under whatever label they wish to use. And this makes it easier for you to swear cubes are cubes... even though your actions imply you KNOW this is not true.
Why did you cross PE with the Texas 'Strain' Roger? Isn't it because Texas is a heavy spore producer with stems that look a lot like a PE's? Wasn't it a good candidate for making penises that dropped more spores?
Why'd you cross Redboy with Puerto Rico? To keep the Redboy looking like it once did, and to keep it viable and aggressive? Or, did you use RK's dartboard?
Cubes are cubes my ass!
If a cube was not discovered before 2006, it is almost impossible to find reliable information about it here at The Shroomery (the biggest mushroom website in the OMC). Don't you think this has a LOT to do with your locking every single strain related thread which pops up in your forum, RR?
Here's a short list of unique cubes Roger... and I'll ignore the cubes which only display slightly interesting traits (like Texas and Puerto Rico  ):
Albino Penis Envy
Albino A+
Columbian Rust Spore
Falbino
Malabar
Menace
Penis Envy
Penis Envy #6 (Remember this one RR?)
Penis Envy Uncut
PF Albino
PF Redspore
Redboy (How 'bout this one RR?)
Sure, for every unique cube, there are 10 average 'strains'... but puh-lease... they are not all the same. And by locking every single thread and telling n00bs that they ARE all the same... you are perpetuating a lie.
It is clear you don't practice what you preach when it comes to cube 'strains'... you take advantage of a cube's uniqueness whenever you use a specific 'strain' to cross it with another.
With all due respect, you're wrong about this subject... and you are rarely wrong.
I can understand your reluctance to reply to every single 'strain' related thread posted by a n00b in Mush Cult... but it is unlike you to spread misinformation. And RR, according to The Shroomery's mission statement... we strive to stop the spread of misinformation about magic, mushrooms.
'Strains' for the most part, ARE marketing tools. So, you even go out of your way to HIDE THIS FACT from n00bs? Why? 'Cause you are tired of typing it over and over again? Some 'strains' are clearly NOT marketing tools... and their collective history and integrity deserve to be preserved. If we don't do it, who will? Vendors? Ha!
I have spent over 500 days working on my 'Strain' Journal... and believe me, I KNOW 'strains' for the most part are a marketing tool... and I know most cubes look the same. Still... n00bs are fascinated by cubes and their origins... and n00bs are our future mycologists.
What am I missing here?
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
Edited by Cervantes (06/18/09 01:08 AM)
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CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,036
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
What am I missing here?
If anything, I would say that you are missing the point that "strain", as compared with phenotypes, are not interchangeable.
"Strain" is a vague term out of context. If one fails to define what they mean by "strain" then multiple interpretations may arise, leading to a lot of the misuse and confusion over the word, as seen in a lot of strain discussion threads.
By failing to identify any qualitative meaning to the label, vendors may take the opportunity to invent new strains, and often describe a list of desirable traits that may or may not actually be passed down to future generations.
Some vendors may not actually even be aware of the debate, and those who are find themselves between a rock and a hard place, whether to decide what really counts as a strain and risk losing business, or to play competitively with the 'strain game' like all of the other vendors, since the n00bs eat that shit up.
When someone says "a cube is a cube", what is usually meant is that all of these "strains" are really contrived and do not represent an actual clade within the species P. cubensis. Some may have different attributes, but they can all cross with one another.
I have spent a lot of time considering this. I am not inclined to argue your points, since I agree for the most part, however I think that you have constructed some sort of working definition for the term that is not shared by myself or RR or any of the "cube is a cube" proponents.
So then, how would you define "strain"? If we are going to continue this debate, I think we need to establish some rules of the game.
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 15,862
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 6 hours, 15 minutes
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Re: Strain Forum [Re: CureCat]
#10528236 - 06/18/09 03:41 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I define 'Strain' much like you have... in quotation marks.
And trust me, I say, "A cube is a cube" at least once a week... so I too am being a bit hypocritical considering my last post.
I, like George, prefer the proper term, "Race".
Cubes, like humans come from all over the world... and there is slight variety from one region to another. It is time for some racial tension here in the world of cubes.
An African, an Asian and a Caucasian all walk into a bar... oh wait, this isn't a joke.
An African, an Asian and a Caucasian are all undeniably human but there are obvious differences between each race. Hell, even on a smaller scale... every single town (and sometimes neighborhood) in Great Britain features a slightly different dialect... even though there is still room for great diversity from one person to another in said towns.
I think 'Race' is the best and most accurate option, but it'll take more than Castanza and I to change the way the people in this website communicate and it would also help if we all were allowed the freedom to discuss such things w/o threads being locked immediately.
That said, vendors use the term 'Strain'... and n00bs learn the term from vendors. This incorrect term is SO widespread, it is even used in the same way by Paul Stamets. I'd love to use the proper terminology, and will do so from now on... but this will be an uphill battle. Most people recognize the incorrect term, and not the correct one.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
Edited by Cervantes (06/18/09 05:54 PM)
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