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OfflineWiccan_SeekerA
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Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday
    #10000656 - 03/19/09 02:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

My, have they found Scrooge McDuck's stash, that they "found" yet another $1.200.000.000.000




Federal Reserve will buy 1.2 trillion USD of debt to boost lending

The US Federal Reserve said on Wednesday it will buy almost 1.2 trillion US dollars worth of debt to help boost lending and promote economic recovery. The US central bank said it would start buying long-term government debt and expand purchases of mortgage-related debt.

The announcement follows two days of policy meeting when it was decided to leave interest rates unchanged close to zero. In December, the central bank cut rates as low as they can go - to a range of zero to 0.25%.

The size of the move surprised investors, causing the Dow Jones stock index to jump almost 200 points.

The Federal Reserve said it hopes the measures will boost mortgage lending and the struggling housing market by lowering interest rates on mortgages and other forms consumer debt.

“To provide greater support to mortgage lending and housing markets, the Federal Open Monetary Committee decided today to increase the size of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet further by purchasing up to an additional 750 billion US dollars of agency mortgage-backed securities, bringing its total purchases of these securities to up to 1.25 trillion this year, and to increase its purchases of agency debt this year by up to 100 billion to a total of up to 200 billion US dollars. Moreover, to help improve conditions in private credit markets, the Committee decided to purchase up to 300 billion of longer-term Treasury securities over the next six months”.

The Fed said it would employ "all available tools" to promote economic recovery.

In its release following the meeting the Federal Reserve said it had launched the Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility “to facilitate the extension of credit to households and small businesses and anticipates that the range of eligible collateral for this facility is likely to be expanded to include other financial assets”.

The decisions are based on information received by the FOMC which indicates that the US economy continues to contract; job losses, declining equity and housing wealth, and tight credit conditions have weighed on consumer sentiment and spending plus weaker sales prospects and difficulties in obtaining credit have led businesses to cut back on inventories and fixed investment”. The release also points out that US exports have slumped as a number of major trading partners have also fallen into recession.

However “although the near-term economic outlook is weak, the Committee anticipates that policy actions to stabilize financial markets and institutions, together with fiscal and monetary stimulus, will contribute to a gradual resumption of sustainable economic growth”.

In the current circumstances inflation seems no longer a major concern: in the light of increasing economic slack here and abroad, the Committee expects that inflation will remain subdued. Moreover “there is some risk that inflation could persist for a time below rates that best foster economic growth and price stability in the longer term”.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
    #10001039 - 03/19/09 03:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:nonono:


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Yrat]
    #10002363 - 03/19/09 06:18 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Edit, i'm dumb.

Edit2:  Well, I'm not dumb, im' just high.  I read that article, and then typed up this huge response about why it was totally understandable for the Fed to be buying the toxic assets from our financial institutions.


Then I realized that's not what the article said :facepalm:


Edited by meams (03/19/09 06:20 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
    #10002842 - 03/19/09 07:44 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday




Incorrect.  In the US the tax burden is not distributed evenly, we have a progressive tax.  So most of that debt falls on the rich with very little falling on the middle class and poor. 

I have never had federal tax burden and likely never will (under the current tax scheme).


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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: DieCommie]
    #10006575 - 03/20/09 10:39 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Qubit said:
Quote:

Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday




Incorrect.  In the US the tax burden is not distributed evenly, we have a progressive tax.  So most of that debt falls on the rich with very little falling on the middle class and poor. 

I have never had federal tax burden and likely never will (under the current tax scheme).





EXACTLY!!    Most people think that the taxes are "evenly distributed".  They definitely are not.  A friend of mine told me this the other day.

There are roughly 305 million US citizens.  For the sake of easy math, lets say that there are 400 million.

If the gov't wanted to implement a stimulus package, they could give each person, their child, their grand child and their GREAT grand child a million dollars and it would be roughly 1.6 billion dollars.

400 million * 4 generations = 1.6B USD

These so called stimulus packages are in the high billions/low TRILLIONS of US dollars. 

Its sad that many people don't understand the scope of tax payers dollars that are being spent.

Lana


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OfflineWiccan_SeekerA
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Lana]
    #10007554 - 03/20/09 02:21 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Its sad that many people don't understand the scope of tax payers dollars that are being spent.





Sad indeed.

400 million x 4 = 1.6 billion.

For your plan to work the Government should spend 1600 trillion, a million times more than you calculated.

And alas, it doesnt work at all.

This $1.2 trillion of the original post is created out of thin air and used to buy off real debt.

If you create 1600 trillion out of thin air, the dollar instantly is worth less than the paper its printed on.

But as to taxes being unevenly distributed: this money taxes the US money supply. That means that all Americans will pay for it through inflation. The rich guys yacht, the poor guy's renting of a bowling lane to celebrate his anniversary and the little girl's icecream bought with her hard earned life savings:smirk: it all goes up in price because this out of nowhere money the Fed created.

The rich guy can afford not to buy a yacht. But the little girl's mother who now can barely support her family cannot afford to not buy groceries. So who pays the hard way for inflation? Those who need most of their money just to get by.

They are not spending money from taxes you paid, they decrease the value of every dollar in circulation and everyone will get the bill for that later. They spend now, you pay later.


Edited by Wiccan_Seeker (03/20/09 02:30 PM)


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Lana]
    #10008105 - 03/20/09 04:00 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lana said:

EXACTLY!!    Most people think that the taxes are "evenly distributed".  They definitely are not.  A friend of mine told me this the other day.

There are roughly 305 million US citizens.  For the sake of easy math, lets say that there are 400 million.

If the gov't wanted to implement a stimulus package, they could give each person, their child, their grand child and their GREAT grand child a million dollars and it would be roughly 1.6 billion dollars.

400 million * 4 generations = 1.6B USD

These so called stimulus packages are in the high billions/low TRILLIONS of US dollars. 

Its sad that many people don't understand the scope of tax payers dollars that are being spent.

Lana



It's sad that many people don't even understand what the fuck they're talking about.  :facepalm:


Sure, if the government gave me, my children, my grandchildren, and their children all $1 - it would only cost 1.6B - but WTF am  I going to do with a dollar.


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OfflineTedwilto
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: meams]
    #10009261 - 03/20/09 07:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

you could buy something plastic from china :shrug:


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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
    #10009581 - 03/20/09 08:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Very true, wiccan. Inflation is coming at us down the road. It is inevitable and all we can do is get ready for it. Buy your yacht now rather than later :wink: But seriously, get into commodities, stock or other real and tangible things. I'm holding gold and silver, stock and a little bit of real estate. RE is going down at the moment but it will go back up in a year or two, about the time inflation starts kicking in.


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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: meams]
    #10009886 - 03/20/09 09:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It is deeply upsetting that people will nitpick the particulars of this topic's title.  The corporations have resorted to outright robbery now.  The federal reserve creates trillions of dollars and then refuses to tell exactly who is receiving the cash. 

The (central) bankers are far more dangerous than crazy AK toting islamic fundamentalists. 

It is a policy of "Divide et impera" here folks.

This is a systematic devaluation of the currency through inflation that began in 1913.

Sometimes I wonder how many disinformation agents are trolling the internet.

Inflation hurts the working middle class the most.


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10009980 - 03/20/09 09:37 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Of cours the Fed won't tell you which institutions are getting the money, and how much.  Makes perfect sense.


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: meams]
    #10010014 - 03/20/09 09:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

A quick little blip from Answers.com - it answers both:
1) Why the Fed has lent all of this money via their various facilities [in italics]
2) Why they don't disclose who gets it [I'll bold that part].


http://www.answers.com/topic/lender-of-last-resort

Quote:

An institution, usually a country's central bank, that offers loans to banks or other eligible institutions that are experiencing financial difficulty or are considered highly risky or near collapse. In the U.S. the Federal Reserve acts as the lender of last resort to institutions that do not have any other means of borrowing and whose failure to obtain credit would dramatically affect the economy.



Investopedia Says:
The lender of last resort functions both to protect individuals who have deposited funds, and to prevent panic withdrawing from banks who have temporary limited liquidity. Commercial banks usually try not to borrow from the lender of last resort because such action indicates that the bank is experiencing financial crisis.



Critics of the lender-of-last-resort methodology suspect that the safety it provides inadvertently tempts qualifying institutions to acquire more risk than necessary - since they are more likely to perceive the potential consequences of risky actions to be less severe.





And the argument by the Critics (last paragraph) is valid.  Certainly from now on we're going to have to worry about moral hazard among banks who think they can just stay hooked up to the Fed's moneymakers via a IV...

But you've got to remember, before all this happened I doubt all these banks were out there making risky trades and justifying it with "The Fed will continually bail us out if this goes wrong".  I think they got a little greedy, careless, and got fucked a lot worse than they ever thought they could've.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: meams]
    #10010044 - 03/20/09 09:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I am certain that it is not hard to understand how much corruption takes place when a few TRILLION dollars are "created" and secretly moved about.

It is nothing short of robbery. 

There was no oversight.

The "federal" reserve should not exist.


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10010086 - 03/20/09 09:58 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

That's not an argument.  Come back with some information-


:highfive:


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: meams]
    #10010128 - 03/20/09 10:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry bud,

I have a few things to attend to.  I promise to continue this conversation more tomorrow.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
    #10010151 - 03/20/09 10:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Actually, I'm relieved to have the Fed buy this debt rather than China.  Better to keep it within our borders.


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10010152 - 03/20/09 10:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:shrug:  ok


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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Silversoul]
    #10013220 - 03/21/09 01:21 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The problem is that the individual countries are not the impetus behind the creation of debt in the United States.  The unconstitutional federal reserve system works together with "other" fractional reserve banking systems which have infiltrated most of the other nations. This international banking cartel is responsible for creating an immoral and insane "economic" system which siphons off the value created by goods and services produced by the nations through their morally bankrupt inflationary monetary policies.

The federal reserve is an unconstitutional banking cartel that is not actually part of the United States nor the United States government.  THEY are the real terrorists.

So, meams, exactly what school(s) of economics do you study/ascribe to (and why?)??


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10013311 - 03/21/09 01:41 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The common-sense school of anticonspiracyism.


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Invisiblemeams
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Re: Every US man, woman and child went an additional $4.000 deeper in debt last wednesday [Re: meams]
    #10013343 - 03/21/09 01:49 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I suppose I could provide a serious answer - there's no point in me being difficult.


I like Marginalists :smile:  And I hate mercantalists :smile:

I'm clearly a monetarist.


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